#instantbird log on 07 13 2010

All times are UTC.

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07:24:12 <Mic> morning
07:25:35 <Mic> Morian: do you still do generate these graphs displaying activity of and between people?
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08:49:19 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
08:49:46 <flo> Good morning! :)
08:51:55 <Mic> Release party tonight?
08:52:24 <Mic> With free (as in free beer) beer?
08:59:52 <flo> tomorrow there will be a small party with fireworks near the Eiffel tower ;)
09:07:55 <Mic> I guess on Champs Elysees? With a military parade or so?
09:08:48 <flo> that's in the morning
09:08:49 <Mic> haha, that's even true
09:09:22 <Mic> Wikipedia (not a trustworthy source, i know) says it's the national DAY
09:09:24 <Mic> *day
09:09:49 <flo> yep :)
09:18:17 <flo> ahah, the "clibpoard" typo has been in all release notes since 0.2 alpha 1!
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10:11:30 <Mic> oh, a "new version" window
10:11:58 <Mic> Seems that everything is working fine so far ;)
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10:54:34 <clokep> flo: Re the clipboard typo, you need to turn on spell check in whatever program you write release notes in. :P
10:56:36 <Mic> Notepad doesn't have a spell checker:P
10:57:00 <clokep> Stop living in the '90s. ;)
10:58:07 <Even> ^^
10:58:26 <Even> Why should he? It's a good period.
10:58:39 <Even> He won't have all the cool technologies we do have but...
10:58:40 <Even> :)
10:58:49 <clokep> And he'll have weird clothes and bad pop music. ;)
10:59:02 <clokep> But I suppose its better than the '80s...
10:59:18 <Even> Well, about this. Classic was already there so there's still good music to listen.
10:59:49 <Even> ^^
11:00:13 <Even> That's a good period for music in France those years.
11:00:30 <Even> Our best singers were of those times.
11:00:34 <Even> Maybe even a little before.
11:00:45 <Even> Now we have crap and crap and... let's see... Crap !
11:01:13 <clokep> I'm not very familiar with music that's come out of France I don't think...
11:01:22 <Even> Yeah, I suppose :)
11:01:27 <clokep> England sure, but France...
11:01:40 <Even> But we do have world class singers in this period.
11:01:57 <clokep> Although Daft Punk is from France, no? :P
11:02:31 <Even> Yep it is.
11:02:45 <Even> They started at Versailles.
11:03:26 <Even> In just fo the fun, I need to add the date : 1993.
11:03:34 <Even> (thanks to wikipedia ^^)
11:03:57 <Even> But in fact, now that I'm looking for dates, our good singers were before the 80's.
11:04:06 <clokep> Hah, fair enough.
11:04:11 <Even> Some still there on those dates but they almost all started before that :P
11:04:20 <clokep> Mmhmm.
11:04:33 <clokep> Its OK, my friend all make fun of me for listening to the music their dad's listen to. ;)
11:05:18 <Even> Well, I do think it is much better to listen what you like to listen even if people are laughing at you than to listen music you don't really like because others do.
11:06:22 <Even> There are a lot of people out there that don't even know why everyone is listening to the crap they listen but won't change because the others don't change too :P
11:06:55 <clokep> Hahah. Yes I'm not a fan of a lot of the current music. Not sure if the same crap is popular in France/Europe as the US or not...
11:06:56 <Even> When putted like that it sounds awkward but it really do happen.
11:07:15 <Even> Well, I'll say one thing to you : US commercials are good.
11:07:20 <clokep> Its the zombie effect. ;)
11:07:33 <Even> Well, as a matter of fact, yes it is.
11:07:48 <Even> And your commercial are specialists in creating those effects.
11:08:05 <Even> Don't really know how they do that, but... really. They always amaze me with this.
11:09:19 <Even> It's a bit sad when you think that it is those same people that are explaining to us they are protecting creation and imagination.
11:09:28 <Even> When you see how and what they sell...
11:09:47 * clokep thinks Instantbird should figure out how they do it...
11:10:19 <Even> Well, I would rather prefer seeing people starting to use Instantbird because they actually choose to by coniction.
11:10:23 <Even> *conviction
11:21:39 <clokep> True. Once 0.2 is released I'll try to convince some people/post on Twitter/etc.
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12:16:39 <tymerkaev> flo: uk ready
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12:33:58 <clokep_work> Is everything good w/ that Wave from last night or is there more to be done on it?
12:36:15 <flo> I moved that to an HTML page already
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12:49:22 <skeledrew_dev> :)
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12:50:13 * skeledrew_dev is testing a smiley package...
12:50:31 <skeledrew_dev> ;) :( :p
12:50:39 <skeledrew_dev> crap
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12:52:51 <flo> is "crap" an emoticon in your package? :-P
12:53:12 <skeledrew> lolz
12:53:19 <skeledrew> nope :)
12:53:23 <clokep_work> I don't want to know what that'd look like. ;)
12:53:27 <skeledrew> but it's not working :(
12:53:42 <skeledrew> wow
12:53:46 <skeledrew> not cool
12:53:53 <skeledrew> MSN smileys suck
12:54:37 <skeledrew> sticking with the defoult till my package works
12:55:09 <skeledrew> trying to figure why the smileys aren't loading at all
12:55:37 <skeledrew> **default
12:56:15 <Mic> skeledrew: do you know these?
12:56:16 <Mic> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/214
12:57:12 <skeledrew> hmm. interesting
12:57:43 <skeledrew> i'll give it a test run
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13:04:46 <Morian> Mic: Yes I still can generate these graphs, but I don't work on this project these days (and I don't know if I will work on it one day ...)
13:05:00 <Mic> skeledrew: they might not be compatible with the latest nightlies
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13:06:42 <skeledrew> animated smileys???
13:06:47 <skeledrew> the horror!
13:07:05 <skeledrew> Mic: i don't do nightlies
13:07:31 <Mic> They're just animated when shown, after that they stay as they are
13:07:32 <skeledrew> so the setup is always constant
13:07:56 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah. but they still take extra RAM
13:08:09 <Mic> hmm, most likely yes
13:08:31 <skeledrew> that's why i'm converting the Pidgin default set
13:08:57 <skeledrew> not sure where i went wrong with the packaging...
13:27:18 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> 0.3aPre1, eth?
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13:27:35 <Mic> Maybe we should change this "Download Instantbird Now! Click to start downloading Instantbird for Linux" to "Download 0.2 later" ;)
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13:29:09 <flo> Mic: ?
13:33:51 <Mic> I wasn't serious, even though someone might download 0.1.3 just now, they'll receive the update anyways
13:34:04 <tymerkaev> flo: ping
13:34:16 <flo> pong
13:34:35 <tymerkaev> http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/uk/repos/
13:34:43 <flo> Mic: they will think "wow, they made such a great improvement so quickly"
13:34:43 <tymerkaev> mostly done
13:35:11 <Mic> They'll be the more disappointed when there's no such update NEXT WEEK ;)
13:36:14 <flo> ahah
14:02:14 <Mic> Splitting the release in five could get us to 0.5 quickly ;)
14:02:31 <Mic> even with some 'intermediate' steps ;)
14:02:49 <flo> roll a dice each to you release, and that gives you the version number increment ;)
14:02:54 <flo> *each time
14:03:04 <clokep_work> Just change to base three, the next release would be 1.0. ;)
14:03:16 <clokep_work> flo: A D20 I hope. :P
14:08:11 * clokep_work is working on my first binding.
14:09:14 <Mic> Is it .. textboxes in tables?
14:09:38 <clokep_work> No, its a regexp binding so it'll include the textfield and checkboxes for flags.
14:09:53 * clokep_work is now using a richlistbox instead of a tree for auto link options.
14:10:22 <clokep_work> flo: Kind of basing it off the account manager window, pretty clean code.
14:10:30 <flo> :)
14:17:55 <Mic> I'm not sure what you mean by "regexp binding"
14:20:12 <Mic> bye
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14:21:14 <clokep_work> Mic: It'll have a textbox to enter the regex, then a g/i/m checkbox for global/case insensitive/multiline, maybe do some other fancy things. :)
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14:31:15 <skeledrew> my smileys are refusing to load :(
14:31:21 <tymerkaev> instantbot: lvm
14:31:22 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Logs Viewer mockup (LVm) is here: http://img690.imageshack.us/i/logsvieweri1.png/. Created by tymerkaev.
14:31:33 <skeledrew> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]"  nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)"  location: "JS frame :: file:///C:/Program%20Files/PortableApps/InstantbirdPortable/App/instantbird/modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 123"  data: no]
14:31:34 <skeledrew> Source File: file:///C:/Program%20Files/PortableApps/InstantbirdPortable/App/instantbird/modules/imSmileys.jsm
14:31:34 <skeledrew> Line: 131
14:31:45 <skeledrew> oops. my bad
14:31:57 <skeledrew> should've pastebined
14:32:21 <skeledrew> but i think that could be related
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15:05:45 <flo> anybody with some inspiration for the blog post announcing the release?
15:07:32 <clokep_work> Perhaps <marquee><blink>Instantbird 0.2 released!!!</blink></marquee>?
15:07:52 <tymerkaev> probably you may add "what's next?"
15:08:04 <tymerkaev> and your plans for 0.3
15:08:06 <tymerkaev> projects
15:08:09 <tymerkaev> and bugs
15:08:14 <flo> I don't know yet
15:08:27 <flo> I guess I'll post about it in about a week when things get clearer
15:12:50 <tymerkaev> http://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.com/repos/rev/db6e0dfb22b3
15:14:37 <clokep_work> Is that live now then?
15:15:08 <tymerkaev> flo: Why XP screenshots?
15:15:34 <tymerkaev> since 7 is last version of Windows, you must use it
15:15:35 <flo> clokep_work: no
15:15:41 <flo> the code is in the repository
15:15:51 <flo> It will be live once we hg pull && hg up on the server
15:16:08 <clokep_work> Ah, got it. :) Wasn't sure if that was done yet or not. ;)
15:16:33 <flo> I'll make sure I have a blog post ready before releasing ;)
15:17:36 <deOmega> flo: good day.. I  could not wrap my mind properly around  the web layout format.. so i responded with my interpretation as a reply.  Additionally, I  like the idea just mentioned about  having a what's next at the end.
15:18:18 <deOmega> I hope i did not ceat more work, but  was  my best  way of presenting what  I thought the message was
15:18:32 <tymerkaev> flo: why?
15:19:53 <flo> deOmega: don't worry. We have really appreciated the help a lot on this page ;).
15:20:29 <deOmega> Great
15:21:07 <deOmega> when i saw it first i interpreted it as  descriptive writing
15:21:47 <deOmega> but after i was able to get  it out of teh web format and read again, i realize it is more a writing about principles and how you are trying to enforce them
15:22:01 <deOmega> really two totally different  angles
15:22:29 <deOmega> so, i  retracted every change i  suggested on the main item
15:22:37 <deOmega> main entry
15:23:47 <flo> I looked only at the final result
15:23:53 <flo> but Even looked at the whole history
15:24:54 <deOmega> well, i really like the approach you guys had laid out
15:25:35 <deOmega> as it is making teh project seem like  the  result of  messenger users wanting something better...as opposed to a sales pitch
15:26:31 <flo> isn't it reality?
15:26:55 <deOmega> the former is reality is what i thought.. so it is consistent
15:27:10 <deOmega> messenger users that wanted something better and is therefore working on one
15:29:41 <deOmega> ANyway, i was really  impressed with   it once i saw  the message you were sending
15:29:59 <clokep_work> flo: Does getAnonymousElementByAttribute only access direct children?
15:30:13 <flo> deOmega: it's probably the message we forgot to sent a long time ago
15:30:38 <flo> everybody who know us know it's the way we think. It's just not easy to figure out for outsiders
15:31:00 <deOmega> flo: exactly
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15:38:25 <tymerkaev> flo: why?
15:38:56 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-release-0.2.html blog post proposal
15:40:20 <flo> thoughts?
15:40:32 <clokep_work> Looks, good. Simple. :)
15:41:21 <tymerkaev> ;(
15:41:33 <skeledrew> "... Instantbird 0.2 may feel /like/ a completely different software to you."
15:41:54 <flo> skeledrew: fixed, thanks!
15:43:12 <skeledrew> "... (for example, new tabs and message styles)..."
15:45:00 <skeledrew> "Instantbird 0.2 is /now/ available in 5 languages thanks to the great work of our translators."
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16:04:12 <flo> the page we were discussing this night: http://instantbird.org/
16:12:18 <tymerkaev> font is difficult to read
16:12:43 <Mic> I'm afraid I'm also going to say something about the font
16:12:51 <Mic> First: I like it
16:13:03 <Mic> You really get used to it after a few lines
16:13:20 <Mic> Unfortunately there are some issues (in my opinion) with certain letters
16:13:24 <flo> the release directory weights 609MB!
16:13:49 <flo> (and is ready ;))
16:13:58 <Mic> Like the upper case T which seems to have a kerning problem, which makes it look far appart from the following letter
16:14:28 <flo> forward comments about the font to idechix.
16:14:39 <Mic> Does idechix read the logs?
16:14:42 <flo> I don't want to discuss more on that topic myself :).
16:14:43 <flo> no.
16:14:48 <Mic> Otherwise I'll file a bug
16:19:51 <Mic> Which parts of the website will get this style?
16:22:54 <flo> all
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16:24:42 <Mic> Maybe I should have said "internet presence"
16:25:57 <Mic> e.g. will the Wiki, Bugzilla or AIO get some more of the 'corporate design'
16:26:21 topic changed by flo to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
16:26:53 <Mic> :)
16:27:00 <Mic> The new website .. finallz :)
16:27:24 <flo> the final step is "post on the blog"
16:27:59 <Mic> I really like the outlook :)
16:29:28 <Mic> but it's difficult to see that the ellipsis' are a links actually
16:29:36 <flo> tymerkaev: if your question was "why don't we screenshot on Win7 instead of XP", then it's just because we only have XP at hand.
16:29:40 <Even> no it's not
16:29:59 <Even> the final step is "send a lot of emails to a lot of journalists"
16:30:27 <flo> oh well, I meant to have fully released
16:30:36 <flo> I can quickly rollback the website change and the IRC topic
16:30:58 <flo> not really remove a blog post from RSS feeds syndicates wherever people want it
16:31:06 <Mic> "Get Instantbird for Free" sounds (to me) like you would have to pay normally
16:31:26 <Even> Well, it is the case. Very well known. Ask the majors :P
16:31:40 <flo> crap, the blog uses files from the old ib.org/com websites
16:31:55 <Even> They will explain this very well to you. "Work is money! You should protect creation an pay for it! (AND EXPECT TO PAY FOR IT!)"
16:32:38 <Even> In fact they wre looking for images in the image folder since img.ib.com was in the same folder.
16:32:56 <Even> Only a subfolder away.
16:33:05 <Even> I knew that much :P
16:34:30 <tymerkaev> flo: I can do it.
16:34:36 <tymerkaev> or Even
16:34:46 <tymerkaev> Even: right?
16:34:52 <deOmega> Nice site :)  Where are we gonna see  a capture of vertical tabs? :)  /me hides
16:35:13 <Even> Well.
16:35:38 <tymerkaev> flo: ok?
16:35:47 <Even> If VerticalTabs gets out of the sandblox, it will probably be a recommended addons too.
16:35:55 <Even> Then it will t least be on the front page :P
16:35:57 <clokep_work> I'm OK w/ the font. I think its pretty looking. ;)
16:36:18 <clokep_work> To get out of sandbox, I need reviews, no? :P
16:36:53 <Even> Yes but I'm likely to give the review when people are doing some nice work ^^
16:37:17 <flo> ok, the blog looks back to normal
16:38:53 <Even> Cool!
16:40:19 * flo just forced the front page to refresh its rss feeds: http://www.instantbird.com/
16:41:28 * Mic will look at bugzilla later .. there might be a bunch of bugs that are obsolete now
16:42:15 <Mic> ah, Idechix fought the pixels very well :)
16:42:36 <flo> heh ;)
16:42:40 <flo> do you like this page?
16:42:59 <Mic> Absolutely
16:43:50 <Mic> btw you still can't access https://www.instantbird.org/
16:43:54 <flo> I'll be away from the internet (going home!) in less than 5 minutes for an hour and a half
16:44:10 <flo> Mic: why would you?
16:44:16 <flo> I think it should redirect to the http version
16:45:09 <Mic> Honestly because I think all of the traffic on the web should be encrypted  .. ;)
16:45:32 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
16:45:33 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n25-instantbird-0-2-released.html - Instantbird 0.2 released!
16:46:35 * flo has just added a 0.3a1 target milestone on bugzilla
16:46:58 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 401 to FIXED.
16:46:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401 tri, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, instantbird.org website shows 2007-2008 copyrights (maybe 2007-2010?)
16:47:12 <flo> cool :)
16:49:21 <flo> back later :)
16:49:29 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
16:58:23 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 347 to FIXED.
16:58:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, Rework www.instantbird.org
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17:05:41 <Mic> Even: what do you think about offering a rss feed for the news on the homepage?
17:06:59 <Mic> (same for featured addons?)
17:07:46 <clokep_work> Mic: Isn't it already there?
17:08:17 <Mic> It's on the blog and AIO
17:08:36 <clokep_work> http://instantbird.com/index.html
17:08:44 <clokep_work> Has a news section and a featured add-ons section...?
17:09:05 <Mic> You can't subscribe from there
17:09:23 <clokep_work> Ohhhh, I see what you mean. :) That should just be adding one line of HTML. :
17:09:25 <clokep_work> :)
17:10:03 <clokep_work> (So, yes I think it should be offered for at least the blog.)
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17:13:38 <patrickjdempsey> Hi guys, just saw IB 0.2 is up!  I'm going to blog about it for my Facebook/MySpace friends to check out!
17:16:44 <Mic> :)
17:16:59 * clokep_work tweeted about it.
17:18:40 <patrickjdempsey> I'm just wondering if the download link should say "for Free" ... does that make it sound like it's a free trial?  usually sites that say "Free" have a catch 22 somewhere... although I guess the Firefox download link always says "Free" too.
17:19:38 <Mic> hmm, still "Free Download" sounds different than "Download for Free" to me
17:20:06 <patrickjdempsey> True true
17:20:43 <patrickjdempsey> I'm just looking over the main page at instantbird.com and the features section, it all looks great!
17:20:52 <clokep_work> Firefox says "Download Now - Free", Thunderbird says "Free Download", either of those does seem a bit different.
17:21:52 <Mic> patrickjdempsey: what would you think about adding a one-line-comment to your Firefox themes?
17:22:02 <Mic> Something like:  "Also available for Instantbird"?
17:22:20 <Mic> With thousands of downloads a week there must be someone noticing it ;)
17:23:02 <patrickjdempsey> Yeah, I've been thinking about it... not that AMO get's much traffic these days, their attempts to get people to drop themes like a bad habit for Personas seems to be working
17:24:47 <Mic> Honestly I don't like themes much in general so to say (for usuability (imo, I might be completely wrong on this) reasons..)
17:25:01 <Mic> Still: there's a large difference between a nice, well thought theme
17:25:21 <clokep_work> Mic: I'm a fan of system themes. ;)
17:25:23 <Mic> And an image to skin the toolbars
17:26:40 * deOmega is a major fan of themes
17:27:54 <patrickjdempsey> There's a big difference and Mozilla made the executive decision to force people to decide between them instead of just let everyone live in peace as we had done for several years before... and pretty much every Firefox themer is upset about it
17:29:16 <Mic> Is it the update-thing again?
17:29:58 <Mic> They've got a big issue with people not updating Firefox because of outdated extensions (that's how Jetpack got started iirc)
17:30:07 <Mic> I guess the same might apply to themes as well?
17:30:52 <Mic> And since Personas are much more low-maintenance ..
17:32:26 <patrickjdempsey> It's partially that, but by forcing people to decide, they've locked many users into using Firefox 3.5 and an old outdated version of the Persona Plus extension so they can have both... not a very pragmatic solution to the problem of getting people to update IMO.
17:33:27 <clokep_work> What are they forcing people between? Themes and personas? Does 3.6 not support themes?
17:33:34 <patrickjdempsey> They also claim that restarts is an issue but the brilliant little extension Switch Themes proves that it's possible. 
17:34:25 <patrickjdempsey> Firefox 3.6 does not allow a user to have a Persona and a Theme at the same time.  When they released 3.6 they also released a new version of Personas Plus that locks them out as well.
17:35:51 <clokep_work> Oh, that doesn't make any sense...
17:36:03 <patrickjdempsey> I've heard three different "official" statements now claiming they will reverse this, but they are also running a mistrust campaign as well... like insinuating that Themes cause crashes and could be sources of security breeches.
17:36:20 <patrickjdempsey> And they removed them from Recommended Add-ons as well
17:37:30 <Mic> Sounds like they have already made up their mind :S
17:37:56 <patrickjdempsey> Basically, Mike Beltzner want's them gone and has been adamant about it, while Mike Shaver says they are "around to stay"
17:38:08 <patrickjdempsey> AKA, evil Mike and good Mike lol
17:39:29 <Mic> I don't like the thing the UI team has in mind for the status bar and the addon-status-bar replacing it btw
17:40:11 <patrickjdempsey> So the official word is that Themes are here for the long run, but pretty much everything you read between the lines says, good riddance.  Several of us themers have noticed a marked decline in download and daily use numbers on AMO since the 3.6 release, whereas prior to that downloads were skyrocketing.
17:40:35 <Mic> A pity then
17:40:38 <Mic> I need to leave
17:40:40 <Mic> bbl
17:40:45 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
17:41:08 <clokep_work> That's a shame. :(
17:41:18 <clokep_work> Personas are still pretty limited in what they're allowed to theme, right?
17:45:59 <patrickjdempsey> There has been absolutely no improvement or development in the coverage of Personas since thier inception at MozillaLabs
17:47:13 <patrickjdempsey> So they cover the main toolbars and the statusbar and that's it.  Still no option for a background color that would allow them to successfully integrate with sidebars or the ability to theme windows other than the main one.
17:48:44 <patrickjdempsey> All of their development work has been on their installer, tweaking the toolbuttons and tabs... and of course their websites and promotions.
17:49:38 <clokep_work> :(
17:50:21 <patrickjdempsey> Which is too bad because when I first tried it out on Mozilla Labs, I thought, wow this has great potential but it's not ready for deployment... now it's an integrated part of the Firefox experience without any real improvements.  Which just seems weird
17:51:52 <clokep_work> I think Labs is good. But I don't like that it seems every feature coming out of it is being included in Firefox.
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17:52:22 <patrickjdempsey> I thought the colorful tabs was a great one that just disappeared
17:52:32 <patrickjdempsey> and ubiquity seems to be dead in the water too
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17:54:22 <clokep_work> Ubiquity is "on hold" I believe, but its being supported by others.
17:54:48 <patrickjdempsey> that one was really the only thing that was slated for 4.0 that i thought was going to be a killer app
18:10:07 <deOmega> flo: You do not think that minimize to tray.. the lack thereof should be  indicated somewhere with the temporary solution  being the minimize to tray addon?
18:10:43 <deOmega> I believe that is something  new users will be expecting out of the box and they may not think about the solution being with an addon.
18:10:52 <clokep_work> deOmega: Its on the main page as a featured addon, no?
18:11:08 <deOmega> yes, 
18:11:17 <deOmega> but doesn't that  cycle the featured?
18:11:37 <deOmega> meaning that  it may not be there each time?
18:12:42 <clokep_work> I think there's only 5 featured right now...
18:12:52 <clokep_work> So it might cycle them, but I think it'll cycle to the same ones?
18:14:01 <deOmega> I am not sure.. i assumed it will be showing different ones periodically
18:15:42 <deOmega> I remember the first time i installed ib..  maybe i am not the sharpest, but .. lol.. I  probably closed it 3 times thinking maybe i was missing something
18:16:04 <deOmega> then stopped using until the addon became available
18:16:46 <deOmega> but... see.. i  maybe different, because i almost never look at my contact list, so do not  need to see it
18:17:58 --> flo has joined #instantbird
18:17:58 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
18:18:45 <clokep_work> I don't know. You'd have to ask flo, but I wouldn't think it needs any special treatment. ;)
18:19:38 <deOmega> That is a good enough opinion.  Thanks
18:20:32 <clokep_work> But its just an opinion. :)
18:20:42 <flo> patrickjdempsey: there's "free" on the Firefox download button (and we copied it) because "I can't afford it" was the #1 reason why people didn't update their Firefrox (they used a survey to collect the data)
18:20:49 <deOmega> Indeed
18:24:49 * skeledrew just browsed the blog looking great. i didn't know status could be set from the msg box :)
18:28:36 <patrickjdempsey> - yeah that status shortcut thing is pretty sweet!
18:29:51 <flo> I guess we need to post more "tips" like that
18:30:16 <skeledrew> flo: just gave me an idea
18:30:34 <flo> For exemple, even Even didn't know it's possible to prevent typing notification from being sent while thinking about a message by just adding a "/" at the begining of the textbox
18:30:40 <skeledrew> how about a tips dialog for first time users?
18:31:14 <skeledrew> i didn't know that either...
18:31:21 <flo> no startup dialog, please! :-D
18:31:35 <flo> we can (and want to) display tips while downloading.
18:31:38 <skeledrew> flo: just for the first run :)
18:31:43 <skeledrew> oh
18:31:45 <flo> I think Mozilla does that for Firefox
18:32:06 <skeledrew> k
18:32:09 <flo> dinner time :)
18:33:12 <patrickjdempsey> Yeah, tips in the download dialog are nice, helpful and do make the time pass!  
18:33:25 <patrickjdempsey> gotta go!
18:33:28 <-- patrickjdempsey has left #instantbird ()
18:33:45 <clokep_work> I agree, but not on start. I hate tips dialogs on start. :(
18:34:06 <skeledrew> kk
18:37:04 * skeledrew thinks the msg styles and emoticons should be moved from prefs to the add-ons dialog for consistency...
18:37:36 <skeledrew> http://instantbird.com/release-notes.html
18:37:36 <skeledrew> "... the list of tabs is /scrollable/."
18:37:59 <skeledrew> ^ minor correction
18:42:33 <skeledrew> sooo what's the diff between 0.2b2 and 0.2, apart from the polish?
18:43:08 <skeledrew> cuz i'm tempted to keep 0.2b2
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18:45:58 <hicham> 64Mb for the source tarball
18:46:56 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Why would you not upgrade? If its extensions that can be easily overcome.
18:47:12 <clokep_work> And I agree, the styles/emoticons should be moved to the add-ons dialog. :)
18:49:05 <skeledrew> not extensions. just want to ensure that i'm not downloading something identical
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18:50:30 <deOmega> skeledrew: get 0.3a1pre  :0
18:51:13 <clokep_work> Ah, gotcha.
18:52:52 <skeledrew> deOmega: lol. nah. i like cutting edge, but not that sharp
18:53:31 <deOmega> lol
18:53:48 <skeledrew> oh yeah. where's the zipped version? i hate installers...
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19:04:13 <flo> skeledrew: wait for the automatic update. It will be a small download
19:04:44 <skeledrew> btw, FF's telling me the actual size of the installer is 7.84MB, not 7.6MB as advertised
19:04:56 <skeledrew> hmm
19:05:03 <flo> it's different for all languages
19:05:05 <clokep_work> Probably the difference between on disk sizes or whatever.
19:05:34 <flo> yeah, 7.8
19:05:38 <flo> I guess 7.6 was beta2
19:05:44 <skeledrew> lol
19:05:58 <flo> the indication is not really accurate anyway
19:06:08 <skeledrew> i was wondering if the server was giving FF wrong info
19:06:08 <flo> because the size differs depending on your language
19:06:37 <flo> skeledrew: you can download the zip if you really prefer: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2/
19:06:57 <skeledrew> k
19:07:14 <patrickjdempsey> Hey guys, just a suggestion, you might want to mention on the blog how to setup a facebook chat account.
19:08:00 <flo> there's an entry in the FAQ for that
19:08:07 <skeledrew> so when will IB be debuted on PA.c? i can't wait to see Pidgin and Miranda start getting some serious competition
19:08:22 <clokep_work> PA.c?
19:08:35 <skeledrew> PortableApps.com
19:08:52 <DGMurdockIII> ask the guy there
19:08:58 <DGMurdockIII> guys*
19:09:02 <skeledrew> DGMurdockIII: ?
19:09:08 <clokep_work> Oh. I see.
19:09:29 <skeledrew> isn't it up to flo?
19:09:32 <patrickjdempsey> Ahh yeah flo, thanks I see it now, just making sure the bases have been covered well.  ;)
19:09:32 <clokep_work> All the applications on PortableApps.com are made that way by the guy who runs the site. I don't think any of the programs have anything to do with it.
19:10:07 <skeledrew> actually they did an overhaul other day
19:10:55 <skeledrew> they've released tools and guidelines for people to easily convert their apps to PA format
19:11:20 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Gizmokid20052): ping
19:11:20 <clokep_work> I removed them from my RSS feed, I have no need for portable applications.
19:11:25 <skeledrew> and from there i gues it'd be just a matter of submitting it for review...
19:11:33 <Gizmokid2005> 'allo DGMurdockIII :)
19:11:37 <Gizmokid2005> I'm guessing one in the same?
19:11:43 <DGMurdockIII> yes
19:11:47 <Gizmokid2005> k
19:11:52 <Gizmokid2005> I haven't tried any nightly builds
19:11:58 <DGMurdockIII> someone in here is asking for a portable verson
19:12:02 <Gizmokid2005> i'm pretty at home in pidgin, but I do keep up on the blog
19:12:09 <Gizmokid2005> and I've seen a bit of the new stuff that's been done.
19:12:29 <Gizmokid2005> skeledrew: I'll see what I can do about making a portable version
19:12:44 <Gizmokid2005> it won't be for a little while yet, this is a busy week for me, but I can give it a go
19:13:07 <skeledrew> Gizmokid2005: i was mainly referring to getting it on PA.c
19:13:14 <Gizmokid2005> i know skeledrew
19:13:19 <skeledrew> i already have mine portablized
19:13:24 <skeledrew> k
19:13:27 <Gizmokid2005> I don't think John will release it as it's still early in the lifecycle of the app
19:13:45 <Gizmokid2005> I've gotten Songbird and KVirc up there, but I can work on a more official build and get it up there for testing
19:13:51 <skeledrew> Gizmokid2005: oh. hmm. so you're a regular?
19:13:59 <Gizmokid2005> skeledrew: of PA.c? Yep.
19:14:03 <skeledrew> i see
19:14:38 <-- patrickjdempsey has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
19:17:44 <Gizmokid2005> I've been interested in Instantbird...and actually getting it portablized would be a good way for me to start using it more I do suppose...so I'll see about getting it going this weekend or next week
19:18:00 * flo wonders if "early in the lifecycle" means "not dying"
19:18:08 <Gizmokid2005> haha, no flo
19:18:37 <flo> Instantbird is already 3 years old.
19:18:42 <Gizmokid2005> "early in the lifecycle" should be translated to "early development stages - ie not /really/ designed to be used by the masses and fully feature functional"
19:18:42 <flo> that's older than Google Chrome.
19:18:44 <Gizmokid2005> I know
19:19:00 <Gizmokid2005> that's just how it's normally interpreted around there
19:19:04 <clokep_work> I'm sure Google Chrome has a lot more people working on it. ;)
19:19:05 <Gizmokid2005> but, I will certainly give it a go
19:19:17 <Gizmokid2005> same with songbird really
19:19:30 <flo> clokep_work: and they have certainly been hiding somewhere for a few years before the public release ;)
19:20:40 <Gizmokid2005> that kind of brings me to a good question...do you run your "nightlies"/repo more like KVIrc or Adium?
19:21:23 <Gizmokid2005> ie - KVIrc's is designed to always be working and not break things, maybe adding in iffy support for something, but not breaking it...whereas Adium says stfu/gtfo when something is broke (It's not DESIGNED to ALWAYS work...)
19:22:17 <flo> we try to keep them always usable.
19:22:45 <flo> we have "released" as nightly completely unusable builds (windows only!) only twice if I remember well.
19:23:06 <flo> and we have removed them as soon as someone alerted us
19:23:27 <Gizmokid2005> flo: good :) 
19:23:41 <Gizmokid2005> I'd probably start with portablizing the stable version though...for some reason JTH isn't too keen on nightlies being portable...
19:23:53 <flo> in the future we would like to have something like "blessed nightlies" that have been tested and uses for a few hours by trusted community members.
19:24:10 <hicham> flo : 0.3 will use gecko 2 ?
19:24:11 <Gizmokid2005> that's a neat idea
19:24:14 <flo> that would be as up to date as nightly builds, but with the additional guaranty that they will always at least start
19:24:27 <flo> hicham: I think so (almost sure).
19:25:27 <hicham> It is neat to install/remove addons without restarting
19:25:47 <flo> it won't work for all add-ons
19:26:05 <Gizmokid2005> flo: well that seems to be a good idea...the only thing I can really see as being a stickler is the "lack of" releases? Since you run more out of nightlies than stable releases..
19:26:16 <flo> but I would (really!) like it to work for at least dictionaries, message themes, emoticons, and protocol plugins implemented in JavaScript
19:26:57 <flo> I think we will try to release (at least alpha versions) more frequently
19:27:04 <hicham> flo : why not for all addons ?
19:27:29 <flo> because it's not possible for add-ons that need to do things at startup.
19:28:18 <flo> but those will be more like exceptions ;)
19:29:22 <Gizmokid2005> flo: planning on 0.3 anytime soon? (Final that is)
19:30:03 <hicham> chrome doesn't require restart for addons
19:30:25 <clokep_work> They have a totally different addon system though.
19:30:46 <flo> Gizmokid2005: we will soon start to plan seriously about 0.3. But we don't start by setting the release date.
19:30:57 <skeledrew> Chrome has some weird bug in it that prevents me from opening files i download with it
19:31:15 <Gizmokid2005> I don't blame you flo, just curious if you had a timeline at all
19:31:45 <flo> there's a roadmap
19:31:48 <flo> instantbot: roadmap
19:31:51 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'roadmap' might be.
19:31:53 <instantbot> flo: The Firefox 3 schedule: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Schedule and only goes up to M9 & http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Status
19:31:57 <skeledrew> and one that crashes my sound and network drivers or something if i have a media catcher running
19:31:59 <flo> arg
19:32:38 <skeledrew> lolz
19:34:20 <clokep_work> instantbot: roadmap is https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
19:34:21 <instantbot> clokep_work: But roadmap is '<reply> The Firefox 3 schedule: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Schedule and only goes up to M9 & http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Status'...
19:34:35 <clokep_work> arg. :(
19:34:53 <flo> instantbot: no, roadmap is <reply>http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
19:34:54 <instantbot> flo: ok
19:35:15 <Gizmokid2005> interesting bot setup...
19:35:30 <clokep_work> Apparently it needs convincing...
19:35:39 <Gizmokid2005> i use a Phenny bot for my stuff
19:35:40 <flo> heh
19:35:54 <flo> when it doesn't know something it asks its friends
19:35:57 <flo> like firebot
19:36:05 <Gizmokid2005> now that's neat!
19:36:06 <clokep_work> Yeah, I didn't know it could be overridden.
19:37:09 <clokep_work> flo: Instantbot runs off mozbot I assume?
19:37:23 <flo> yes
19:37:43 <flo> Morian is our bot trainer :)
19:37:50 <skeledrew> hmm...
19:38:00 <skeledrew> instantbot: roadmap
19:38:01 <instantbot> skeledrew: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
19:38:08 <skeledrew> nice!
19:38:52 <Gizmokid2005> flo: see the first comment: http://portableapps.com/node/14781 <-- though I'm sure it has changed since then
19:39:21 <Gizmokid2005> I'm going to take a look at the version that was put up there and see what it really does, but I'll get a true test up soon
19:39:23 <flo> it was 2 years ago
19:39:27 <Gizmokid2005> yep
19:39:41 <Gizmokid2005> ironically DGMurdockIII that was your post
19:48:32 <flo> tymerkaev: have you seen http://www.opennet.ru/opennews/art.shtml?num=27294 ?
19:49:14 <clokep_work> Oh, flo. So...on the wiki there's a list of "notifications".  How can I actually use those? :) I want to use "new-conversation" to see when a new tab/conversation is added, or is there a better way?
19:49:41 <flo> use the nsIObserverService interface
19:50:57 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout)
19:51:29 <clokep_work> OK, Thanks.
19:53:06 <clokep_work> Wow, Google Translate is telling me that that site says..."in the annex are actively used tabs (guitar)" :) It also has a sentence about food. ;)
20:02:18 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird ()
20:03:35 <clokep_work> flo...Uh..."Notifications related to conversations are dispatched only to the observers of the conversation, not globally through nsIObserverService."
20:03:37 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
20:03:58 <flo> new-conversation is not in that list ;)
20:04:13 <clokep_work> It says it in the comment next to it...
20:04:35 <clokep_work> Ohhh, I see what its saying now. :)
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20:14:07 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2)
20:23:24 <skeledrew> 3 new files and 1.2MB more diff from 0.2b2
20:24:05 <skeledrew> well, time for that upgrade...
20:24:23 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2)
20:26:04 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
20:26:18 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2)
20:26:38 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
20:27:08 * skeledrew is now using IB 0.2 :)
20:27:11 <flo> skeledrew: out of curiosity, where did you get that data from? ("3 new files and 1.2MB more")
20:27:31 <skeledrew> flo: folder properties comparison
20:27:41 <flo> ah
20:28:03 <flo> I think there will be less files in 0.3 with that kind of comparison
20:28:13 <skeledrew> hmm
20:28:13 <skeledrew> k
20:28:19 <skeledrew> good
20:28:32 <skeledrew> i'd love to see IB stay light...
20:29:37 <clokep_work> From removing more libpurple stuff?
20:29:44 <flo> it's a matter of putting all the files in the same file to avoid slow startup on OSes (like Windows) that are very poor with file systems.
20:30:01 <flo> that's something Mozilla people have been working on for a few months
20:30:45 <skeledrew> k
20:30:47 <flo> clokep_work: libpurple is not that big I think compared to the Mozilla platform
20:31:04 <skeledrew> esp xpcom.dll...
20:32:31 <clokep_work> Right, but isn't it many files? :)
20:32:34 <hicham> mozilla is huge
20:32:43 <clokep_work> I know.
20:32:52 <hicham> flo : can you provide a source without mozilla ?
20:32:56 <flo> clokep_work: libpurple is ONE file ;)
20:33:16 <skeledrew> *xpcom.dll=xul.dll
20:33:29 <hicham> flo : or that is not feasible ...
20:33:38 <flo> hicham: what's the use case?
20:33:38 <clokep_work> flo: Oh, really? Its compiles down to one file?  I thought the protocols, etc. were all compiled into separate dlls, shows how much I know. :P
20:33:56 <flo> depends if you look at it in Pidgin or Instantbird ;)
20:34:03 <flo> you have a purple.dll file and that's it
20:34:28 <flo> that's the "# libpurple statically linked with its dependencies and its default protocol plugins." line in the changelog ;)
20:34:54 <skeledrew> purple.dll is under 2MB. xul.dll is 10MB!
20:35:00 <hicham> flo : I would like to package it, but trying to avoid the huge mozilla source
20:35:10 <flo> do you package the source?
20:35:28 <hicham> flo : i will use the system's one
20:35:48 <hicham> flo : that is how i build it
20:35:51 <flo> why does the size of the source archive matter?
20:36:16 <flo> if you build it once and people download a binary package, the size of the source doesn't matter
20:36:36 <hicham> flo : because, i will have to upload the source also, with my slow internet connection
20:36:41 <flo> it's probably technically possible.
20:36:55 <hicham> flo : like you do on hg
20:37:10 <hicham> flo : there is no mozilla source on hg
20:37:13 <flo> but don't you just give an url to the source archive and a checksum?
20:37:43 <hicham> flo : of course, but why duplicate stuff ? we already have a source on the buildsystem
20:37:57 <flo> it's not a matter of duplicating stuff
20:38:02 <flo> what you requests add works
20:38:27 <hicham> ok, sorry then ...
20:38:29 <flo> and actually duplicates the source code on our server
20:38:41 <flo> I'm not saying it's not possible
20:39:22 <hicham> IB source code is small, compared to the rest of mozilla source
20:40:10 <flo> yes
20:40:17 <flo> but it's still an additional file
20:41:29 <hicham> I think I will just download the archive from hg, with the right changeset
20:41:47 <hicham> where can I find the release changeset ?
20:41:59 <flo> if you want to upload it somewhere, rather than give the url, that's certainly a good way to do it
20:42:53 <flo> try :)https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/archive/0.2.tar.bz2
20:42:53 <hicham> flo : I must upload it to the buildsystem :)
20:43:33 <hicham> flo : thanks, that will do the trick
20:46:28 <flo> np :)
20:48:18 <hicham> flo : i copy the mozilla source tarball on the buildsystem to IB source tree, and do the build with the system sdk
20:48:43 <hicham> flo : the only problem i had is nss
20:53:46 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
20:56:52 <clokep_work> Bye.
20:59:27 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
20:59:43 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Error: looked_up_public_ip_cb(): Failed Finding <NewExternalIPAddress
21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/dbebf9abbb07/purple/libpurple/upnp.c
21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Line: 753
21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Source Code:
21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> upnp: looked_up_public_ip_cb
21:06:12 <Mic> Preventing typing notification with a slash before a message sounds not exactly like a feature ..
21:14:49 <flo> Mic: it's one
21:15:02 <flo> we don't want to send typing notifications for commands
21:15:13 <Mic> It's abusing the fact that the program expects a command to come
21:15:18 <flo> there's an exception on /me that does send them
21:15:18 <Mic> That's a hack so to say
21:19:08 --> patrickjdempsey has joined #instantbird
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21:20:33 <patrickjdempsey> I have a question about the update channel... shouldn't 0.2b2 update to 0.2?
21:20:53 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout)
21:28:42 <flo> patrickjdempsey: it will
21:29:17 <flo> I think we will wait a day or two before pushing the update
21:29:37 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
21:29:41 <patrickjdempsey> Gotcha.  
21:30:45 <Tonnes> good evening/afternoon
21:32:01 <flo> hello
21:32:17 <skeledrew> Tonnes: welcome
21:32:47 <Tonnes> thanks
21:32:50 <Mic> Hello
21:33:35 <Tonnes> just read about IB and was wondering about the need for a Dutch (nl) translation
21:34:15 <Tonnes> mut admint, haven't tried IB yet
21:34:20 <Tonnes> (admit)
21:34:50 <Tonnes> is there a need for it, or have you had any offers for nl l10n yet?
21:35:53 <flo> I think someone offered to do it a long time ago, and has never actually done anything
21:36:10 <flo> so if you want to do it, that will be appreciated :)
21:36:47 <flo> but I guess it's more fun to translate an application that you use, so maybe you will want to try it first? ;)
21:37:07 <Tonnes> i was about to do so :)
21:37:25 <Tonnes> (it's a basic rule to dos so, I think) :)
21:39:30 <Tonnes>  would it be a matter of using (shared) unmodified 1.9.2 files and add some others, or are there any differences compared to current 1.9.2 ones?
21:39:59 * Tonnes is browsing them currently
21:41:01 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 442 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
21:41:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Problems with "Sacco-Vanzetti Instantbird" font
21:41:07 <flo> you just have to translate the files of the Instantbird UI.
21:41:25 <Tonnes> ah, ok
21:41:27 <flo> the translations of the Mozilla plateform comes from Mozilla locale repositories
21:41:42 <flo> and we import libpurple translations so that you don't duplicate the effort of Pidgin translators
21:41:56 <Tonnes> clear
21:43:28 <Tonnes> one reason to do it is my contribution to mozilla products, so familiarity
21:44:18 <flo> you are already translating other mozilla products? :)
21:44:37 <Tonnes> whether i can keep up with it would become clear, but I like to see some consistency - if at some point someone elkse is willing to take it over due to lack of time would be ok
21:44:44 <Tonnes> yes
21:45:19 <Tonnes> how about the IB localizers, aren't there any that do so as well?
21:45:20 <flo> by the way, like Songbird, Instantbird is not an official Mozilla project (not supported by the Mozilla foundation).
21:45:53 <hicham> instantbird use vanilla xulrunner
21:45:57 <hicham> unlike songbird
21:46:33 <Tonnes> yes, i understood.. but as it uses the reps, it would be nice to use the same 'rules' or style, so to speak, for the ib files
21:47:28 <flo> are you using tools to translate Mozilla applications?
21:48:15 <Tonnes> another (personal) plus perhaps: I'd be using a multi protocol IM client again :)
21:48:23 <flo> :)
21:48:47 <flo> there's some documentation about the process here: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation
21:49:07 <flo> you may skip some/most of it as I guess you are already familiar with using mercurial :)
21:49:15 <Tonnes> hmm not really, well except the page tools, but for most translations I use the TC diff tool
21:49:25 <Tonnes> indeed
21:51:02 <Tonnes> i've been delivering patches for FF since 1.0 and humbly think I'm the most critical (when it comes to dutch language) l10n contributor
21:51:41 <flo> that's great! :)
21:51:43 <Tonnes> similar with TB, Lightning and SM, sometimes helping with new files
21:52:32 <Tonnes> they made me owener of calendar as well, as the other guy quit
21:52:53 <Tonnes> lightning/calendar, well calendar officialy, of course
21:53:07 <Tonnes> same for sumo
21:53:30 <Tonnes> some extensions of they are bad
21:53:48 <flo> we keep a list of our active translators on this page: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Locales_Managers
21:54:17 <Tonnes> as well as amsn and, in the past, tc. that's about it :)
21:54:20 <flo> well, German and Greek translators haven't been that active :-/
21:54:52 <flo> do you mind having your full name and email address listed there?
21:57:52 <Tonnes> er.. well.. if the work is done perhaps? :) I'd like to stay humble and appreciate if my name isn't listed very much on the net, which is why there my name is slightly different on the calendar page (by one letter)
21:58:19 <Tonnes> or just first name, or (this) nick. but it's no real problem :)
21:58:48 <Tonnes> and hey, if that's the same george fiotakis i met last week, that's a nice coincidence! :)
21:58:52 <flo> I'll need an email address to send you a password. You can send it by private message if you don't want to give it publickly
21:59:29 <Tonnes> george is pretty active in mozilla l10n as well, isn;t he?
21:59:57 <flo> I haven't heard from him recently
22:01:07 <Tonnes> i was lucky to have been invited to the mozilla summit last week, and we often met at the smokers spot
22:01:17 <Tonnes> ok i'll pm you
22:05:38 <flo> ok, I emailed you a password :)
22:06:59 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 443 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
22:07:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=443 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Allow to subscribe to rss feeds from instantbird.com
22:07:12 <flo> if you need help to get started, don't hesitate to ask questions :)
22:07:54 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::)
22:09:15 <patrickjdempsey> Hi guys, just wanted you to know I filed a bug for Firefox for manually installing search plugins.  Since this could help IB, I figured you might want to track it:   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577975
22:10:06 <Tonnes> thanks :)
22:11:57 <flo> ouch, you mean the "Get more search engine" link we currently have is completely useless?
22:12:17 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout)
22:12:41 <patrickjdempsey> I think the only way to install one is to manually put the file into the search engines folder in the profile and restart
22:12:41 <Mic> d'oh
22:12:47 <Mic> I never tried...
22:12:54 <Mic> AIO tries to install them into Firefox :S
22:13:12 <flo> that's something we should fix
22:13:45 <Mic> Need a bug for that? I'm working in Bugzilla anyways right now
22:13:55 <flo> I think the best idea we have had to make AIO more useful is to replace the download buttons' urls by urls starting with ibaddon:// and register a protocol handler for it in Instantbird
22:14:08 <flo> so that a click in the browser for such a link forwards the add-on install request to Instantbird
22:14:13 <Mic> Sounds pretty good imo
22:14:17 <flo> Adium does something similar with adiumxtra://
22:17:11 <patrickjdempsey> It would be great to get that, for experienced users downloading the installer to the desktop and dragging it into Addons or the profile folder works fine, but for noobs that would certainly be a barrier from using add-ons.
22:18:26 <flo> there's the "install" button on the add-on manager
22:19:23 <skeledrew> wouldn't work if IB's portable
22:20:21 <Mic> flo: now that we have localized releases it could be a good idea to do actually do as suggested in bug 369 to channel reports of this kind
22:20:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Localizations component to Bugzilla.
22:21:11 <flo> skeledrew: I think the users who are unable to do a drag&drop are also unable to decide they need a portable version
22:22:25 <skeledrew> good point
22:26:49 <Tonnes> hmm.. current nl repo files are all localized. Should there be more, or rather, what repo to use for en-US?
22:27:34 <flo> The en-US strings are in the code repository: https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/
22:28:04 <Tonnes> thanks.. do you recall who did these files for nl?
22:28:12 <flo> to see quickly which files you should add, I guess comparing with the repository of an already complete locale helps: https://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/fr/repos/
22:28:33 <flo> those files are converted automatically from the translations of Pidgin
22:30:36 <Tonnes> i see.. is it allowed modify thosel?
22:30:44 <Tonnes> ..to..
22:30:50 <flo> sure!
22:31:04 <Tonnes> ..without the risk of being overwritten?
22:31:11 <flo> especially if the original translations are poor... or not up to your own standard
22:31:13 <Tonnes> automatically thaht is
22:31:22 <flo> won't be overwritten
22:31:28 <Tonnes> ok
22:31:36 <flo> we import only once before our translators starts working on it
22:32:00 <flo> after that, we can show what was changed in Pidgin, but it's up to you to use that patch or not :)
22:32:28 <flo> man, we should really add a translation FAQ
22:32:52 <flo> those imported files are causing a lot of confusion
22:32:58 <Tonnes> interesting.. how about the oter way around? i mean, do the Pidgin people look at or implement our changes on those files?
22:33:10 <flo> no
22:33:12 <Tonnes> :)
22:33:22 <flo> I originally thought about it
22:33:28 <flo> but it's way too much work
22:33:35 <Tonnes> i guess, yes
22:33:51 <hicham> weird
22:34:00 <flo> they can't get much out of it anyway
22:34:16 <hicham> does it have pidgin specific hooks ?
22:34:19 <flo> as our translations of libpurple are stripped from all the parts of libpurple that we have removed
22:34:38 <flo> hicham: I don't understand your question
22:35:16 <hicham> flo : what i know is that libpurple can be used directly
22:35:25 <hicham> flo : without changes to it
22:36:06 <flo> that's not a question
22:36:36 <hicham> yes, it is not :D
22:36:57 <hicham> no, I mean, what do you change in libpurple ?
22:37:05 <hicham> can't it be used as it is ?
22:37:43 <flo> why are you asking this question *again*?
22:38:05 <flo> we had the same discussion a few days or weeks ago
22:38:30 <hicham> sorry, I don't remember :(
22:45:50 <Mic> hicham: if you like to look up something you can check the log files
22:46:16 <hicham> Mic : is the channel publicly logged ?
22:46:20 <Mic> All conversations here are available as logs on http://log.bezut.info
22:47:23 <hicham> thanks a lot
22:47:27 <Mic> (see the topic, the link is usually there)
22:48:17 <Mic> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/ always points to the current log btw if you want to bookmark it
22:48:37 <flo> Mic: it seems google hasn't indexed all the logs though :-/
22:48:38 <Mic> inserting /yesterday/ also works
22:48:43 <Mic> I know
22:48:49 <flo> I tried to look for the conversation I was refering to but couldn't find it
22:49:10 <Mic> Maybe there's a way to ask for new indexing
22:49:31 <Mic> Iirc some search engines had a form where you could enter an adress to index
22:50:06 <flo> I think there's also a way to provide a map of the site and say how often each page should be revisited
22:51:13 <Mic> http://www.google.com/addurl/?continue=/addurl
22:51:40 <flo> what about putting the logs in lxr? :-D
22:52:21 <Mic> I filled out the google form
22:52:28 <Mic> let's see
22:54:25 <flo> I guess tomorrow I should email our translators and suggest they make some "noise" around the release.
22:54:44 <flo> It's disappointing to see only en-US and ru are being downloaded...
22:56:02 <hicham> i will add arabic too if i package it
22:56:57 <flo> given our website is currently only in English and our announcement is in english too, I don't see how people who need the localization because they can't use an english version are supposed to discover it
22:57:48 <hicham> not necessarily
23:01:11 <-- patrickjdempsey has left #instantbird ()
23:07:24 <Mic> good night
23:07:29 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
23:07:46 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited)
23:08:34 <skeledrew> hmm. how can the quit message be customized?
23:10:16 <flo> I don't think it's possible currently
23:10:23 <flo> except if you use the /quit command
23:11:11 <skeledrew> but that disconnects everything on that network right?
23:11:35 <flo> right
23:11:47 <flo> the /part command is the same for only a channel I think
23:11:59 <skeledrew> k
23:12:41 <skeledrew> maybe there's a way to send the message as the client exits?
23:15:32 <flo> wanna rewrite the IRC plugin in JS? (that would be cool :))
23:16:02 <skeledrew> sounds like a challenge
23:16:38 <skeledrew> i'd have to pseudocode-ize the C source first though...
23:17:22 <flo> not really
23:17:26 <flo> IRC is a documented protocol
23:17:55 <flo> C source code is not the most readable documentation :)
23:18:06 <skeledrew> i know
23:18:29 <skeledrew> but i've never done any of this protocol stuff
23:18:44 <flo> that hasn't been done yet
23:18:58 <flo> it's something we want to do for 0.3 (protocol plugins implemented in JavaScript)
23:19:20 <skeledrew> i need to see how things mesh, etc and break it into bite sized chunks
23:19:27 <skeledrew> k
23:19:55 <skeledrew> would be nice to have a kind of converter
23:20:21 <skeledrew> then you'd just need to fine tune the results
23:22:52 <flo> the JS->C way sounds more possible
23:23:09 <skeledrew> why?
23:23:25 <flo> the C code is full of odd stuff with pointers
23:23:56 <skeledrew> it should be easier to higher gen lngs
23:24:05 <skeledrew> hmm
23:24:07 <skeledrew> k
23:24:34 <flo> one way is "compiling", or desugaring. The other way is "magic" ;).
23:24:55 <skeledrew> lol
23:25:12 <flo> you need to understand the logic to write correct higher level code
23:26:13 <skeledrew> yeah. but you can short circuit it by only using the lower language elements in that high lang
23:26:26 <flo> that's plain stupid
23:26:44 <skeledrew> it's a quick fix...
23:26:50 <flo> and not even really possible (as you can't have pointers)
23:26:57 <flo> it doesn't "fix" anything
23:27:05 <flo> and the API is not even the same at different levels
23:27:26 <skeledrew> gotta be a way to represent them
23:27:36 <skeledrew> well that's a major issue...
23:28:23 <flo> I guess you can write a C "interpreter" in JS, but I don't really see the point (except avoiding crashes at the cost of a huge slow down)
23:30:30 <skeledrew> k
23:30:33 <flo> (by the way, sorry for the word "stupid", I didn't mean it)
23:30:44 <skeledrew> that's a bit overboard
23:30:48 <skeledrew> nah
23:30:51 <skeledrew> np
23:31:40 <skeledrew> just thinking on my feet (or seat) and not enough facts to back it up
23:32:29 <flo> It's late here, I should really get some rest.
23:32:32 <flo> Good evening/night!
23:32:43 <skeledrew> evening