#instantbird log on 07 04 2010

All times are UTC.

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00:38:13 <hicham> hi skeledrew
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01:04:40 <clokep> flo: I know we'd need to ensure that we have people around and stuff, but I was just thinking since its an IM program it would make sense to attempt to offer help via IM since all the protocols are in there. :)
01:04:59 <flo> yes
01:05:08 * clokep wasn't expecting you to be here.
01:05:18 * flo neither
01:05:52 <clokep> Does Instantbird have any sort of feedback right now (besides bugzilla, which tends to be rather techy)?
01:06:10 <hicham> maybe a crash reporter
01:06:13 <clokep> And as far as I know there's nothing for support...but that's tough w/ a small community.
01:07:11 <flo> I'd like to have a "send feedback" thing where people could write whatever they think (good or bad) and send it to use with a single click
01:07:16 <flo> anonymously if they want
01:07:17 <clokep> hicham: Instantbird has a crash reporter. :)
01:07:23 <flo> with an email if they would like an reply
01:07:47 <clokep> flo: http://aakash.doesthings.com/2010/06/25/hi-my-name-is-firefox-input/
01:07:53 <clokep> Something like that?
01:08:43 <flo> yeah
01:09:00 <flo> I'm not sure if the feedback sent through this should be publicly visible or not
01:09:17 <clokep> Right.
01:10:32 <flo> I'd like it to be public
01:10:54 <flo> but I guess some people could be upset about it if they misunderstood the purpose of it
01:11:24 <clokep> What about a checkbox that says "make this private" that is unchecked by default?
01:11:33 <clokep> (But explain that it'll be anonymous either way.)
01:14:11 <clokep> (PS I have really crappy internet so if you're expecting a response and I don't give one its possible I don't get it, just ping me. :))
01:14:46 <flo> by the way, you may want to read/add content to: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:feedback
01:15:27 <flo> weren't you supposed to be away from the internet for the week-end? ;)
01:16:17 <clokep> I went for a 15 mile bike ride this morning and sat by the pool all day. :P
01:16:23 <clokep> And I have no idea how many kilometers that is, so don't ask. ;)
01:17:28 <hicham> multiply by 1.6
01:18:09 * clokep always converts any distance to inches, knows that 2.54 cm = 1 in, then converts to km.
01:18:27 <clokep> flo: Interesting mock up. Similar idea to what I had.
01:18:27 * flo asks google
01:18:48 <clokep> The new Windows 7 calculator is good too. :)
01:18:55 <flo> clokep: http://www.google.fr/search?q=15+miles+in+kilometers
01:19:32 <clokep> flo: I know Google does it, its pretty good at it too until you start getting into really weird units. Google wasn't made for engineers. :(
01:19:53 <flo> no, it was made *by* engineers
01:19:56 <flo> that's even better
01:20:20 <clokep> Hahahah. I think it was made by /scientists/, that's even "better". ;)
01:20:22 <skeledrew> clokep: use Wolframalpha
01:20:33 <clokep> I actually prefer Bing. :-]
01:21:38 <flo> I have a vague idea of what the distances in miles and inches are. Inches are used for screen sizes. And miles... I spent 3 months in california and had a car then ;).
01:21:41 <clokep> I like the idea, I think public mailing list would be best, like mozilla.feedback.*
01:21:59 <clokep> I'm good w/ cm and m, but km kind of get me.
01:21:59 <flo> I've no idea of the distances in feet without converting though.
01:22:22 * clokep wishes America would switch to metric.
01:24:23 <flo> we could convert units automatically and put them in tooltips :)
01:24:40 <clokep> If we're doing that we should also translate and do it. ;)
01:24:41 <flo> temperatures in °F are hard too.
01:25:01 <clokep> its 5/9 - 32 or something.
01:25:19 <flo> couldn't be easier to mentally convert ;)
01:25:28 <clokep> (T in F - 32) * 5 / 9 = (T in C)
01:25:30 <clokep> :)
01:25:53 <clokep> flo: I believe my favorite is slugs to kg. :P
01:26:06 * flo googles slugs
01:26:44 <clokep> Its the US unit of mass, which is hardly used cause we always talk about "lbs" as if they're a mass and not a weight.
01:26:57 <clokep> So a "slug" is lbs / g (acceleration due to gravity).
01:27:44 <clokep> flo: What kind of engineer are you?
01:27:58 <flo> software engineer ;)
01:28:41 <skeledrew> flo: :D
01:28:53 <clokep> Cool, my undergraduate is in mechanical and electrical engineering.
01:29:25 <clokep> A lot of my friends are computer engineers. Which I suppose has a bit of a hardware focus to it, but I know a lot of computer science majors as well.
01:31:44 <clokep> Software people are just lazy. ;)
01:31:56 <flo> that's required!
01:32:07 <flo> make the computer do your work for you! :)
01:32:11 <clokep> So that's why 0.2 hasn't been released. ;)
01:32:42 <flo> it would be nice if that could be the only reason :)
01:33:22 <flo> I really want/need to know why it took us so much time.
01:33:34 * clokep just found a weird hot key.
01:33:54 <clokep> Shft + PgUp/PgDw scrolls the conversation window?
01:34:08 <clokep> Yeah, well...Even sounded like the upgrade infrastructure is mostly done?
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01:34:35 <flo> not really "done"
01:34:42 <flo> the hard issues are figured out
01:34:55 <flo> but there's still some of the implementation work to do
01:35:06 <clokep> Ohhhh I see.
01:35:11 <flo> and we need to test it seriously before it can replace the existing stuff
01:35:48 <flo> but I'm confident. We have something that is going to work soon :)
01:35:53 <clokep> Gotcha, well let us know if you need some testing behind random firewalls or whatever.
01:36:35 <flo> nothing in the way the application behaves will change (we still use the mozilla system)
01:37:12 <flo> the changes are only on the servers. How we decide which build should be updated to which other build. If it's automatic or with the user's approval, etc...
01:37:16 <clokep> OK, wasn't sure if you needed to make sure people could connect via firewalls, etc.
01:37:35 <flo> only invisible things, but that all have a high potential for screwing us up if we have bugs in them ;)
01:38:26 <clokep> Those are the worst.
01:39:09 <flo> yeah, it's all very scary. We need to be extra careful about how this works. Be sure no "unexpected" situation is possible.
01:41:38 <clokep> Yeah its like a big monster jumping out from under the bed.
01:53:06 <flo> Good night. :)
01:53:14 <clokep> 'night.
01:53:16 <skeledrew> night
01:55:58 <clokep> Gonna update.
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02:00:03 <skeledrew> clokep: update IB?
02:00:16 <clokep> skeledrew: Yes. Nightly.
02:00:27 <skeledrew> k...
02:00:46 <skeledrew> i'm still on 0.2b2
02:00:59 <clokep> Ah. Yeah I just run the nightlies, they're stable enough. :)
02:01:09 <skeledrew> k
02:01:48 <hicham> clokep : which gecko version is used in the nightlies
02:02:38 <clokep> 1.9.2
02:02:46 <clokep> As I've been saying all along! :)
02:02:53 <hicham> good
02:03:46 * hicham has returned to 1.9.2 as his desktop has suffered from a mass breakage
02:03:46 <clokep> It is kind of weird that you can't tell if IRC is connected or not.
02:04:02 <clokep> I can't really tell if I'm still connected or not since its not on my buddy list.
02:04:24 <hicham> try adding buddies
02:05:03 <clokep> On IRC?
02:06:25 <hicham> yes
02:06:32 <hicham> that is not possible ?
02:06:43 <clokep> I don't know.
02:06:58 <skeledrew> clokep: yeah. it really sucks
02:07:15 <clokep> Even if its possible, I'm not sure it makes sense.
02:07:23 <hicham> why not ?
02:07:43 <skeledrew> but as i said, flo said IRCs aren't buddies
02:07:44 <clokep> I thought you can't really add buddies in IRC cause there's no way to see if a buddy is on IRC without like pinging the server specifically for each buddy.
02:07:49 <clokep> Right.
02:08:27 <skeledrew> but i still like my rooms showing in the list, for easy management
02:08:38 <skeledrew> as it does in Pidgin
02:09:01 <clokep> :) I just autoconnect to the two rooms I go to.
02:09:27 <skeledrew> clokep: and what about the hassle if you accidentally close the window?
02:09:35 <skeledrew> wait someone to send a message?
02:09:41 <clokep> Then I just use /join
02:09:50 <clokep> But it doesn't really happen to me that often.
02:09:53 <skeledrew> *wait for
02:09:57 <clokep> Half the time I'm on IRC I'm using mibbit anyway.
02:10:48 <clokep> At work and I have a lot of trouble connection to irc.mozilla.org from my ISP. :(
02:14:04 <skeledrew> having it in the list also allows me to see if the channels actually available, and i can comfortably close the tab knowing i'm still in the room :)
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06:32:23 <Mic> morning
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11:52:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 435 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
11:52:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "Show custom smilies" option
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17:06:50 <Mic> I read through the "Making Add-ons People will Love" slides and I can only recommend that
17:09:14 <Mic> (the slides are available as PDF and come with comments from the giver of the talk)
17:12:59 <flo> :)
17:16:33 <Mic> I've to admit I overlooked the point that people might not want additional (core) functionality than what is currently in an add-on
17:17:27 <Mic> So I guess Link Bugzilla will stay what it is and a more general tool to replace strings with links (or whatever you want/can do) should become a new add-on instead
17:18:29 <flo> if you make a general purpose replacement add-on, I think it's pretty obvious that you don't want to have "bugzilla" in its name ;)
17:19:49 <Mic> hmm, maybe something like (name/renaming) would have lead to a new addon anyways ..
17:20:39 <Mic> remove the brackets, btw
17:21:04 <flo> yes
17:21:12 <flo> it's common sense :)
17:21:50 * flo needs to make instantbird crash for the screenshots of https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Fqueze/0.2_Launch/stability
17:22:36 <Mic> Can't you create an add-on for that?
17:23:23 <flo> I know a real crash that will do :)
17:23:56 <flo> the one I fixed recently is there in 0.2 beta 2 ;)
17:23:57 <Mic> Bottle it in an add-on and you'll always have it if you need it ;)
17:24:11 <flo> mozilla has a crashme add-on :)
17:24:23 <Mic> You see? ;)
17:24:59 <flo> I don't think we should put it on AIO
17:25:48 <Mic> As long as it's not an "Auto-crash on startup" addon ;)
17:27:04 <Mic> "This crash was generously provided by the Instantbird team" ;)
17:27:16 <flo> cool
17:27:41 <flo> to keep you away from your online friends and increase your real life productivity ;)
17:28:16 <hicham> flo : +1
17:29:02 <hicham> flo the internet addicts ' savior
17:29:59 <Mic> There are actually error messages like this
17:30:20 <flo> not in Instantbird ;)
17:30:31 <Mic> cf http://hyperiums.com/blablob
17:30:55 <Mic> (it's an online game I played long ago)
17:32:48 <Mic> Do nightly builds fit into an article about stability?
17:34:13 <flo> I think so
17:34:34 <flo> the reason they exist is so that the issues we catch in them don't appear in general releases
17:35:37 <Mic> What about saying exactly this?
17:37:55 <Mic> Right now the connection to the rest of the article is that they can be updated as well
17:38:02 <flo> you can edit the wiki page :)
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18:11:53 <flo> Mic: I've just edited the page. please tell me if you spot any mistake :)
18:12:02 <flo> my screenshots are ready
18:12:09 <flo> I'll post on the blog after diner
18:20:00 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird
18:20:00 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
18:20:00 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
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18:22:12 <Morian> cool instantbot is already back here
20:13:19 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 436 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
20:13:21 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird
20:13:21 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
20:13:22 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
20:13:38 <Mic> :)
20:14:03 <Mic> Was that just coincidence or can a new bug report bring Instantbot to check its state and maybe reenter the channel?
20:14:50 <Mic> instantbot: safe-mode is <reply>Information on the safe-mode can be found at https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:safe-mode
20:14:50 <instantbot> Mic: ok
20:14:59 <Mic> instantbot: safe-mode
20:15:01 <instantbot> Mic: Information on the safe-mode can be found at https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:safe-mode
20:16:16 <flo> do you think that replying to tweets like "Playing around with Instantbird for my Public IM conversations. It's very simple, like Pidgin, so liking it so far." could be useful?
20:16:49 <flo> The message could say "We are glad you seem to like it, don't hesitate to report any issue you may find, or discuss improvement ideas with us! :)"
20:17:35 <flo> I'm sure if people see we watch for feedback they will like the product more, but I'm not sure how "spammy"/unexpected such a message would appear to be
20:18:17 <Mic> I guess Twitter doesn't leave much space for explanations ;)
20:20:01 <Mic> Does Twitter support concatenating several messages? (Would be completely pervert the principle that it is based on;)
20:20:28 <flo> we can pastebin the longer messages
20:24:34 <Mic> Maybe a message saying that we're interested in feedback and therfore we're looking out for postings on Twitter and elsewhere on the web
20:27:16 <flo> the people at digsby seem to reply to lots of tweets mentining digsby: http://twitter.com/digsby
20:28:24 <Mic> Looks like they're doing nothing else ;)
20:29:17 <flo> they keep saying linux and mac will be supported and that they are working on it "now" ;)
20:40:19 <Mic> The "Cleaner UI" posting will be next?
20:41:44 <flo> next is message styles
20:41:48 <flo> (monday)
20:41:57 <flo> cleaner UI tuesday
20:42:16 <Mic> ok
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20:46:47 <flo> the screenshot are already ready
20:47:02 <flo> only the ones involving crashes were left to do
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21:34:02 <flo> good night :)
21:34:58 <clokep> Isn't it like 9:30?!
21:35:19 <hicham> flo is tired today
21:35:27 <hicham> il a fait le ménage
21:35:40 <clokep> Fair enough. We're off tomorrow. :)
21:35:46 <clokep> We = Americans. :P
21:35:49 <clokep> Or most Americans.
21:46:55 <Mic> Good night
21:47:02 <clokep> 'night Mic.
21:47:10 <Mic> Ah, independence day, isn't it?
21:47:35 <clokep> Yes.
21:47:53 <Mic> Have fun
21:47:56 <clokep> The day when aliens come and attempt to destroy America, but we manage to beat them by uploading a computer virus into their mother ship. :)
21:48:00 <clokep> Thanks.
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23:34:38 <FishFace> Just got this from a user on AIM - 7:33:24 PM - Jackson: your responses are all full of ariel, font size, span style, etc......how come?
23:35:10 <FishFace> What do I need to fix this?