All times are UTC.
00:19:01 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:54:28 <clokep> Code is up but haven't made an XPI yet. 01:02:18 <skeledrew> clokep: weird. i'm not seeing you in my chat list. it says there're 9 participants, but i'm only seeing 7, excluding you 01:07:10 <clokep> skeledrew: I'm here. :) 01:07:46 <skeledrew> clokep: but you're not in my participant list 01:08:45 <clokep> OK...but I'm here. :P 01:08:52 <clokep> So the list is a lie. 01:09:00 <skeledrew> lol 01:09:11 <skeledrew> wonder which side that bug's on 01:11:43 <clokep> Could be both. ;) 01:19:29 <clokep> You have any luck with your extensions skeledrew? 01:34:59 <skeledrew> clokep: currently paused. am learning from the basics. 01:36:04 <clokep> Ah, OK. Well if you ever want to see bad code you can look at my extensions. :P 01:36:16 <skeledrew> clokep: ok 01:36:20 <skeledrew> link 01:36:37 <clokep> http://code.google.com/p/vertical-tabs/ 01:42:46 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 01:43:01 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 01:43:48 <-- skeledrew has quit (Connection reset by peer) 01:51:47 <clokep> flo: " Oops! There seems to be a problem with this file...The following error occurred while parsing install.rdf: Mismatched tag Please correct this problem and upload your file again." 01:51:55 <clokep> That's the AIO error when I try to upload. :( 01:56:13 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 01:56:39 <clokep> flo: The offending file, which seems valid to me: http://code.google.com/p/vertical-tabs/source/browse/install.rdf but I don't know where on AIO I can check which versions are valid? 02:14:19 <clokep> Bah Instantbird crashed. 02:27:10 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 02:29:56 <clokep> I now have attached tabs. :) 03:39:07 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 04:16:58 * Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK 04:56:03 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::) 05:19:57 <flo> clokep: where do you close the Description tag opened at line 41 ? 05:51:21 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 06:12:48 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 06:22:45 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout) 06:40:20 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird 06:40:20 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/." 06:40:21 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 06:40:27 --> Even has joined #instantbird 06:40:27 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 06:44:12 --> Morian has joined #instantbird 06:44:12 * ChanServ sets mode +h Morian 07:36:47 --> flo has joined #instantbird 07:36:47 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 07:41:23 <flo> good morning :) 08:44:04 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 08:45:41 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 08:45:48 --> GeekShado_ has joined #instantbird 08:53:08 <-- GeekShado_ has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !) 08:58:15 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:10:57 <skeledrew> morning 09:12:52 <skeledrew> weird. even after a restart, my chatters list is still malfunctioning. says there're 8 persons in the room, but only 4 names are showing 09:15:06 <flo> could it be that some network packets are lost between the IRC server and you? 09:16:07 <skeledrew> dunno. but aren't they supposed to be ack'd and resend if there're failures? 09:16:48 <flo> hmm, at the network level yes 09:17:11 <flo> well, I don't know how half the list gets lost then 09:18:24 <skeledrew> last night 2 or 3 were lost 09:19:05 <skeledrew> hmm. lemme check DOM Inspector... 09:19:45 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 09:20:20 <skeledrew_dev> all's well on this point 09:20:28 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 09:20:53 <skeledrew> restarting... 09:21:14 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 09:21:50 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 09:22:19 <skeledrew> looks fine 09:23:02 <skeledrew> probably a cumulative bug or something 09:23:47 <skeledrew> i'll check in the next few hours 10:05:52 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 10:08:11 <Mic> flo: it seems that on AMO an addon can have several authors 10:08:18 <Mic> Does this apply for AIO as well? 10:08:22 <flo> yes 10:09:56 <Mic> In the sense that all of them can add new versions and change details of the addon? 10:10:17 <flo> I think 10:10:18 <flo> so 10:10:26 <Mic> :) 10:11:31 <Mic> If clokep does some changes on the linkbugzilla extension, I should ask if he's interested in access to the extension on AIO 10:36:11 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 10:46:47 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 10:54:26 --> FishFace has joined #instantbird 10:55:07 <Mic> clokep: I was thinking to make you author of linkbugzilla on AIO if you still plan to update it 10:56:00 <clokep> Mic: Its /planned/, want to roll out a working version of Vertical Tabs first. 10:56:26 <clokep> Maybe I'll get to it this weekend while on vacation. :) I feel like it should only take a good hour. :P 10:56:28 <Mic> I've noticed that you seem to be working hard on this one atm 10:56:45 <clokep> Mic: I was just going to update it and file a bug in bugzilla w/ a patch. 10:56:54 <clokep> AIO doesn't seem to be letting me upload things ATM so... 10:57:38 <Mic> That's strange .. maybe file a bug on this as well 10:57:58 <Mic> or ping Even 10:58:11 <clokep> Yeah, I will. But sure you can add me as an author if it makes it easier. Is the uploaded version the same as source right now? 10:58:19 <Mic> no 10:58:26 <clokep> Mic: Well I need to make sure its /not/ my fault, it might be. O:-) 10:58:42 <Mic> The uploaded version is localizable while the one on the addons hg repository is not 10:58:59 <Mic> I failed to notice that flo's makefile actually supports localization 10:59:13 <Mic> not that it is of any importance in this case ;) 10:59:29 <clokep> Mic: Ohhh, it will be once we add more features though. :) 10:59:52 <Mic> I know I haven't done anything for ages now 11:00:16 <Mic> The ultimate goal was to provide an extension that can turn strings into links via regexp replacements 11:00:52 <Mic> So you just add replacement rules and it can serve different things depending on the regexp, the buddy/channel/server/ .. 11:01:02 <clokep> Right. 11:02:02 <clokep> If [buddy|channel|server|protocol] matches /some_expression/ then replace /some_expression/ with /some_replacement_expression/. ;) 11:02:09 <clokep> We can't just put tha tline somewhere? :P 11:02:58 <clokep> And I figured it'd come "preprogrammed" with BMO and BIO? 11:03:20 <Mic> I think it would be a nice thing to have a sort of "context api" 11:03:43 <Mic> that would give an easy way to figure out exactly these things, maybe even geolocation or so 11:04:11 <Mic> flo once thought about an extension that automatically changes your network setting depending on where you actually are 11:04:16 <Mic> iirc 11:04:28 <Mic> FishFace: welcome 11:04:39 <FishFace> Hi Mic 11:04:52 <Mic> Is there anything we can help you with? 11:05:03 <FishFace> Good thing I came in and read the topic. The 2b2 got me on Yahoo 11:05:35 <FishFace> So I am good 11:05:53 <Mic> Fine :) 11:11:39 --> MicTest has joined #instantbird 11:12:30 * clokep has no idea how to "make" the extensions from hg.instantbird.org/addons. 11:12:55 <MicTest> there should be a makefile in the directory of the extension 11:13:12 <clokep> Yeah, I know. I just need to actually play w/ it... 11:13:14 <Mic> Which includes the file in the root 11:13:21 <clokep> Mic: I'm not sure what you mean by context api? 11:13:33 <clokep> You mean like highlight a word and be like "always link this to" 11:14:00 <Mic> something that allows you to easily get the information who you are talking to, on which server, protocol, from which location, .. 11:14:10 <Mic> instead of having to collect this from various sources 11:14:37 <clokep> So like right click > create linker for this chat. 11:14:47 <clokep> Can that be in the next version? :) 11:14:55 <Mic> no, unrelated to the linkbugzilla extension 11:15:00 <clokep> Ohhhh hahaha. 11:15:05 <clokep> Sorry, I didn't get the shift there. 11:15:17 <clokep> So a "Properties" context menu? ;) 11:15:39 <Mic> no, for internal use 11:16:06 * clokep very confused. 11:16:20 <Mic> It's not clear in my mind either :P 11:16:36 <Mic> Let's talk another day about this, I need to get back at work 11:19:14 <clokep> I need to /go/ to work. :) 11:19:18 <instantbot> New Websites - bugzilla.instantbird.org bug 428 filed by email@example.com. 11:19:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Need Product:Addons + Components in Bugzilla 11:27:24 <-- MicTest has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 11:31:17 <flo> clokep: good morning :). Have you seen http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m29 ? 11:33:28 <clokep> flo: Nah, thanks. 11:33:37 <clokep> Why doesn't Instantbird throw an error on that. :p 11:33:49 * clokep that's what I get for always copy and pasting my install.rdf from my other extensions. 11:33:57 * flo doesn't want to know who the rdf parser works 11:34:12 <flo> *how 11:34:25 <clokep> Haha. Fair enough. 11:34:36 <clokep> Apparently the one on AIO is better though. 11:34:39 <clokep> Or stricter. 11:34:43 <clokep> I have to go to work I'll be back. 11:34:44 <flo> there's probably some dark magic inside this 11:34:56 <flo> I guess AIO treats that as a regular xml file 11:35:06 <clokep> Probably. 11:36:01 * flo wishes there was at least one person who has already done successfully a localization of Instantbird here :-/ 11:36:19 <clokep> They're all only partially done? :-\ Or you mean on IRC? 11:36:23 * clokep only speaks American. ;) 11:36:45 <flo> I've a translator for a new locale who needs help, and I guess the explanations would be clearer if they come from another translator 11:37:03 <flo> and I'm not particularly a good person to help with setting up tortoiseHG (which I've never used) 11:37:33 <clokep> flo: I can do that. 11:37:40 <clokep> I use TortoiseHg, its pretty ballin'. 11:38:02 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Be back in 25 minutes.) 11:44:37 <Mic> shouldn't an rdf file be valid xml anyways? 11:44:54 <Mic> theoretically? ;) 11:46:32 <flo> that's why AIO is unhappy about it ;) 11:47:06 <Mic> How can Ib accept it then? I mean they hopefully use the xml parser to read it? 11:47:16 <hicham> IB is unhappy with the default theme 11:47:27 <hicham> though the min and max version are ok 11:47:38 <flo> Mic: probably not. 11:48:05 <flo> I guess there's an rdf parser that reads the file without parsing it fully 11:49:53 <Mic> ok, doesn't really matter 12:07:20 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:17:41 <clokep_work> flo: You're waiting for Instantbird localizations or extensions? 12:18:01 <flo> waiting? no. 12:18:07 <flo> But encouraging people... I try :). 12:19:16 * hicham may offer an arabic translation 12:25:50 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 12:27:30 * clokep_work editing the How to translate page. 12:28:35 * skeledrew waves 12:32:36 <clokep_work> Good mornign. 12:33:07 <skeledrew> morning 12:35:57 <Mic> 'morning' 12:38:11 * skeledrew is thinking of an autorespond greeting addon... 12:38:35 <Mic> You can abuse the "Highlight" addon to do this ;) 12:38:59 <skeledrew> hmm 12:40:44 <-- Mic has quit (Input/output error) 12:43:47 <clokep_work> Not sure what this sentence is asking the user to do. :-/ 12:43:50 <clokep_work> "When you have multiple corrections to do to different files, if it is possible, try to regroup modifications that go together and do them by group and to save on TortoiseHg between each "group correction". Etc." 12:46:23 <flo> I guess it's for example if a new feature was checked in and new strings were added for it, it's better to commit all the changes related to that feature at once, even if they touch several files 12:46:30 <flo> I'm not sure this really matters 12:47:05 <clokep_work> Ohhh I see. 12:50:47 <skeledrew> where's the highlight addon? i've looked in the sections and done a search 12:51:32 <skeledrew> *search on AIO 12:53:55 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 13:01:43 <clokep_work> Parts of this are wrong flo. :-/ A Commit in Hg doesn't send changes to the server, a "Push" does. 13:02:20 <flo> the commit is what will stay visible in the history though ;) 13:02:39 <flo> and I'm not the author of that page 13:02:52 <clokep_work> I know. I'm working on it. :) 13:03:13 <clokep_work> Trying to do it without the jargon that deOmega hates so much. :( 13:03:22 <flo> I suggested once that it would be better to separate the hg tutorial from the information about the localization process (that can be used as a cheat sheet for translators) 13:03:51 <deOmega> clokep_work: good morning 13:04:03 <deOmega> good morning flo and all 13:04:27 <flo> by the way, the question that is asked all the time by new translators is "where do I find the english files to translate?" 13:04:28 <skeledrew> hey deOmega 13:04:47 <clokep_work> flo: And what's the answer to that. ;) 13:04:55 <deOmega> NO, i do not hate the jargon... because I actually smile.. I have much respect for people that are so verse on things I have no clue and it makes me smile 13:05:01 <flo> get them from the source code repository of Instantbird 13:07:05 <deOmega> wow.. IBM has made the network-wide jump to firefox. 13:07:19 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 13:08:52 <clokep_work> Ah, some of it is just cause its an older version of TortoiseHg. :) 13:25:53 <deOmega> clokep_work: any luck uploading the gift? 13:26:35 <clokep_work> deOmega: I uploaded my code, but AIO wouldn't let me upload the package since I couldn't find my error, flo found it for me today. Maybe I'll upload it during lunch today. 13:26:54 <deOmega> OK, thank you. 13:26:58 <deOmega> sounds awesome 13:27:24 <clokep_work> Then you guys can all file bugs about everything that's wrong. ;) Haha. 13:27:49 <clokep_work> Still one thing that's bothering me a lot, but I think I need to change some JS code to do it and its goign to be a bit more intense then I want it to be, oh well. 13:29:12 * clokep_work is done editing. 13:29:19 <deOmega> I believe we will use it with appreciation and realize that it is at the very early stages 13:30:02 <clokep_work> deOmega: I'm fine with bugs as long as they haven't been filed before. :) 13:31:32 <clokep_work> flo: That is a pretty massive page, it should probably be split up to explaining the process of becoming a localizer, etc. then how someone actually gets the files using TortoiseHg. 13:31:50 <flo> yes :) 13:57:18 <clokep_work> deOmega: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/ 13:58:03 <deOmega> ha! 13:58:05 <deOmega> Thank you 13:58:29 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 13:59:38 <clokep_work> Either he quit to install it or that's the only reason he was hanging around. ;) 14:00:08 <flo> it's not perfect on mac ;) 14:00:14 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 14:01:07 <clokep_work> flo: Does it even work on Mac? It currently doesn't change a single setting in tabbrower.css, I'm sure it looks pretty ugly. :( 14:01:09 <deOmega> I cannot complain :)))))))))))))))))))) thank you VERY much. 14:01:21 <clokep_work> Probably still trying to "attach" to the top instead of the left? 14:02:03 <clokep_work> deOmega: You're welcome. The one thing that really bothers me is the 2 pixel shift if you have 1 tab open...then open another. :( 14:02:34 <deOmega> i will show you what i have in a couple images 14:02:41 <flo> clokep_work: http://queze.net/goinfre/verttabmac.png 14:03:44 <clokep_work> flo: Right, I have max-height: 22px set in winstripe, but haven't done pinstripe yet. :) Consider it a feature that they take up the maximum amount of space so you have no unused spaced? 14:04:02 <flo> definitely a feature! 14:04:24 <flo> having small targets on the side is hard to hit quickly with the mouse cursor 14:05:18 <clokep_work> flo: I suppose, if you're shifting from the right you target a 22px high tab instead of a 100 to 250 px wide tab from below. 14:05:32 <clokep_work> I usuallt Ctrl+Tab, so the tabs are just a way to see /who/ I'm talking to. 14:05:45 <clokep_work> s/usuallt/usually 14:06:01 <flo> clokep_work: that issue (the 22px target) is actually the real reason why I didn't want to have vertical tabs implemented in Instantbird by default ;) 14:06:26 <clokep_work> flo: Makes sense, especially for the average user. 14:06:51 * clokep_work should make it so the tabs start in the top left, go to top right, then wrap to bottom right, etc. ;) 14:07:09 <flo> we should get rid of all these background images and replace them with css gradients 14:07:54 <clokep_work> flo: We should replace them w/ glass. ;) 14:08:09 <flo> depending on the platform ;) 14:08:49 <clokep_work> So my assumption was that the mac tabs should "attach" to the left side instead of the top, is that reasonable? Or should they attach to the content like windows? 14:09:11 <flo> to the left sounds good to me 14:09:17 <flo> I'm not a mac theme expert though ;) 14:09:29 <clokep_work> You're more of one then me. :) 14:09:35 <flo> it would be nice to have the first tab attach to both the top and left :) 14:10:01 <deOmega> ah, i detatched this tab and i lost it for a moment 14:10:22 <deOmega> Try detatching a tab and see what happens 14:10:40 <deOmega> clokep_work: I REALLy like it .. Thank you very much 14:10:44 <flo> deOmega: the window is created way too far at the bottom of the screen 14:10:49 <clokep_work> deOmega: I'm not running Instantbird right now. And detaching/attaching tabs worked when I tried it briefly. 14:11:00 <deOmega> ok 14:11:24 <clokep_work> Weird, might have to do with the X/Y information that gets stored. I'll check it out. 14:11:56 <deOmega> mine was created off teh screen at the top.. i had to use win+ -> to bring it back, so it will likely work well now 14:12:15 <deOmega> I am using multiple monitors by the way 14:12:31 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, it's possible that you use the left coordinate as the top of the window 14:13:58 <clokep_work> Perhaps...where I keep my IM window on my computer the "left" and "top" are ~= 14:15:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: Does reattaching the tab work correctly though? ;) 14:15:33 <clokep_work> (I know you can't change the order still, but it should go to the bottom.) 14:18:04 <deOmega> sorry .. let me try 14:18:33 <clokep_work> Pretty sure I know the issue. 14:19:57 <deOmega> yes, it reattaches just fine 14:20:55 <clokep_work> I'm overriding _onDragEnd but I changed pretty much every "x" and "y" without really reading them. :) Some of them don't need to be changed. 14:21:29 <deOmega> clokep_work: Let me update youplease 14:21:47 <deOmega> If i drag to an empty place on teh desktop.. it works fine 14:22:11 <deOmega> but if I drag and drop say on firefox of another app... that is when it gets lost 14:22:33 <deOmega> or if i drop on IB itself... i have tod rop it directly to teh desktop for it to work fine 14:22:50 <clokep_work> deOmega: That's strange, I see part of the problem them. I'm telling the window to be created at (yOffset,xOffset), that's pretty wrong. :) 14:22:56 <clokep_work> By about a rotation of 90 degrees. ;) 14:23:03 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:23:21 <deOmega> cooooooooooool 14:23:54 <clokep_work> If you're not busy you can test something for me in your profile. 14:24:03 <deOmega> hmm, i may be wrong.. let me try something else here... seems i have to drop them on my main moitor only 14:24:38 <clokep_work> Open <your profiled dir>/firstname.lastname@example.org/content/instantbird.js 14:24:49 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:25:21 <deOmega> ok 14:25:24 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:25:25 <clokep_work> Lines 93 - 94, win.moveTo(eY - draggedTab._dragOffsetY, eX - draggedTab._dragOffsetX); swap the xs and ys, so it becomes win.moveTo(eX - draggedTab._dragOffsetX, eY - draggedTab._dragOffsetY); 14:25:52 * clokep_work went regex crazy when editing that function. 14:26:11 * skeledrew_dev is taking vert-tabs on a test run... 14:27:51 <deOmega> clokep_work: hmm 14:28:25 <deOmega> trying to find that location ha! 14:28:52 <clokep_work> You're on Windows...XP? Vista? 14:29:07 <deOmega> windows 7 14:29:21 <clokep_work> Its in C:\users\<username>\AppData\Instantbird\Profiles\... 14:29:40 <deOmega> i see it... under roaming. thank you 14:30:29 <deOmega> wow, I think when i was following mic directions the other day i was under teh wrong thing. :) 14:30:33 <clokep_work> Right, I forgot that one. :) 14:37:20 <skeledrew> clokep_work: adddon working great except for a minor positioning quirk 14:37:37 <skeledrew> good work :) 14:37:38 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Yeah, it moves 2 pixels. 14:38:01 <clokep_work> Thanks. 14:38:05 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 14:38:38 <skeledrew> no. when i drag convo tabs to windows, it goes somewhere else 14:39:57 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 14:40:13 <deOmega> just did my first real programming :) 14:40:17 <deOmega> it works 14:40:37 <deOmega> no need to minimize it please... just agree that i did hehe 14:40:52 <clokep_work> deOmega: Awesome! Do you understand what I messed up? :) Thanks for the confirmation. 14:41:18 <deOmega> Yeah, i kinda got the idea 14:41:35 <flo> where's the pizza? :) 14:41:43 <deOmega> hahah 14:41:46 <skeledrew> clokep_work: drag-dropping tabs is kinda a pain too. i have to separate the tab into a window first... 14:42:32 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Drag and drop isn't supported yet. :P 14:42:32 <deOmega> flo, remember that blue u thought was out of place?... stay tuned 14:42:49 <flo> no :-S 14:43:11 <flo> blue what? 14:43:28 <deOmega> the blur e background for the tabs with themes 14:43:46 <deOmega> u will remember, hang on 14:44:43 <skeledrew> clokep_work: k 14:44:48 <deOmega> http://i47.tinypic.com/2is6vl2.jpg 14:45:18 <hicham> nice work clokep_work 14:45:29 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:45:51 <deOmega> http://i46.tinypic.com/nyicyr.jpg 14:46:01 <deOmega> i have two more please 14:46:11 <hicham> is the addon ready ? 14:46:25 <deOmega> ah, i think those convey teh message 14:46:29 <clokep_work> hicham: Its usable, its not done. There's a few issues with it. 14:46:46 <hicham> clokep_work: can i test it ? 14:46:51 <clokep_work> deOmega: So....uhhh...what happens if you have too many buddies open? 14:47:12 <deOmega> hicham: if you are not aprogrammer like myself... wait a minute lol.. jk 14:47:18 <clokep_work> hicham: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/ 14:48:10 <hicham> thanks 14:48:46 <deOmega> with too many buddies... you are out of luck as it does not give a scroll wheel nor does it scroll.. u would have t increase the window height manually 14:49:18 <clokep_work> deOmega: OK. Didn't test it with that many yet. I'll add it to the list of bugs... 14:49:34 <deOmega> ok.. thank you 14:49:48 <deOmega> can i modify the width of teh tabs? 14:50:10 <deOmega> or is that something u will implement 14:50:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: /I/ can't even modify them yet. ;) There's a couple of lines in there that say mTabWidthMax and Min or whatever, but I don't think they work? 14:50:41 <deOmega> flo: so.. u see teh babyblue from windows where there are no tabs? 14:50:54 <flo> yes 14:51:05 <clokep_work> deOmega: I hope to make it so that separator is a splitter that can be dragged back and forth, but I'm not sure its possible. 14:51:18 <deOmega> ok, that now becomes the background for the side tabs .. and so.. wider 14:51:28 <flo> why wouldn't it be possible? :) 14:51:36 <deOmega> ah,, that sounds good 14:51:47 <clokep_work> flo: XUL doesn't seem to like me using replaceChild on anonymous content? 14:51:52 <clokep_work> But I didn't really try yet. 14:53:46 <deOmega> man, i am saying... thys really adds anew dimension to IB. Way to go. 14:57:07 <deOmega> so.. personally... those are the two things now i would say... adjustable width and scrollable tabs column 14:57:11 <clokep_work> Glad you like it. 14:57:24 <clokep_work> Scrollable tabs is kind of a big issue. :( 14:57:59 <clokep_work> Adjustable width you're going to have to wait a little bit for I think... 14:58:09 <skeledrew> clokep_work: maybe it doesn't have to be TRULY scrollable 14:58:10 <deOmega> that is ok... I am sure not many people out of teh gate gonna be chatting with as many people in as asmall a window 14:58:30 <clokep_work> deOmega: How many can you fit? 14:59:09 <clokep_work> skeledrew: The scrollability (is that a word?) should be able to be pulled from the normal sideways scrolling, I just have a feeling its not being triggered because it probably checks widths or something, not heights. 14:59:16 <flo> why is it hard to make them scrollable? 14:59:21 <deOmega> 9 14:59:26 <flo> isn't this a vertical arrowscrollbox? 14:59:44 <flo> uh 14:59:49 * flo types too slowly :( 15:00:23 <skeledrew> clokep_work: you could detect the scrolling event (or whatever) and dynamically create/destroy the tabs corresponding to the direction being scrolled... 15:00:25 <clokep_work> flo: I think the buttons just aren't showing up? 15:00:48 <clokep_work> skeledrew: That's ridiculous. I'm not going to recreate what the XUL framework can do for me. 15:01:06 <skeledrew> clokep_work: lol. k 15:01:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: Did you try scrolling with a scrollwheel or just that the buttons don't pop up? 15:01:35 <deOmega> sorry... i answered the amount of tabs too slowly... actually, I can fit 10 folks. 15:02:02 <deOmega> oh wait... i do not know what happened 15:02:08 <deOmega> but it is now scrollable 15:02:18 <deOmega> the buttons pops up now 15:02:35 <deOmega> are you guys screwing with me? 15:02:51 <clokep_work> No, why? 15:03:28 <deOmega> i swear i had more tabs opened before and teh scroll bars did not show up.. but now they are here. 15:03:46 <deOmega> even works with teh mousewheel 15:03:57 <clokep_work> Did you do something different? Like instead of opening the extra tabs you resized the window to do it? 15:04:49 <flo> the arrows not showing up may be cause by an overflow: CSS property. 15:04:49 <deOmega> to be honest.. and this is why it is slow to respond... i am chatting with folks in between and sadly, kinda hard to keep track of what i did... sorry. 15:05:37 <deOmega> THIS iS FANTASTIC! 15:06:02 <clokep_work> deOmega: Not a problem. I'll do my own testing at some point anyway, probably not this weekend though -- holiday and all. 15:06:18 <deOmega> no, this cannot wait :) 15:07:50 <clokep_work> OK...? What is it? 15:08:16 <deOmega> I was just kidding around 15:08:38 <deOmega> i was saying this work cannot wait for you to enjoy your weekend 15:09:31 <clokep_work> Ah, I see. :) Yeah. Well I'm going away, so might not get much done. 15:10:15 <deOmega> flo: that baby blue area and now the baby blue scrollbars... I may try to see if i can look into the theme ofix it... the author said that he is not using windows so he cannot see and so he won't be able to address it 15:12:31 <flo> if you needed to list the 5 most important features of Instantbird, what would you list? (I'm writing the content of the new website and need ideas ;)) 15:13:24 <skeledrew> flo: implemented or wishes? 15:13:24 <clokep_work> Multiprotocol. 15:13:27 <deOmega> I want to contribute to that list.. let me gather mine 15:13:39 <flo> alerady implemented in 0.2 15:14:02 <flo> (actually, I already have made up such a list, but I'd like to be sure that I haven't missed something important) 15:14:07 <deOmega> so basically.. these ar ethings that are NOt in teh program already? 15:14:19 <flo> no 15:14:46 <flo> if you wanted to make some marketing document "selling" Instantbird, why would you you "think" people need it? 15:14:51 <deOmega> ah, i read the program wrong 15:15:03 <deOmega> teh question 15:15:03 <deOmega> Ok 15:15:40 <clokep_work> Multiprotocol, fits into the operating system, easily extensible, free (with no spyware/crapware), open-source, easy to use, stable... 15:18:39 <skeledrew> multiproto, extensibility potential via addons, light on resources, scrollable tabs and built in Facebook support (when do we get Twitter?) 15:18:40 <skeledrew> all in that order 15:19:01 <flo> twitter is planed for 0.3 15:19:12 <skeledrew> k 15:21:20 <flo> believe it or not, I didn't have "free", "extensible" (!), "open source", "stable" in my initial list :-D. 15:21:52 <deOmega> this is harder than it looks :) 15:22:46 <clokep_work> flo: What /was/ in the list then?! 15:22:49 <flo> I had "Customizable conversations", "All protocols", "All OSes", "Conversations in tabs", "Simplicity" (= clutter free, no ads), "powerful tools just when you need them" 15:23:17 <deOmega> Multiprotocal including facebook and many of the popular services, IRC, Free with no spyware or ads of any sort, As flexible as firefox, Easy to use with impressive stability, horizantal and vertical tabbed interface, extreme customization via addons. 15:23:36 <deOmega> i guess i had to be long-winded lol 15:24:20 <skeledrew> like to add portability, community support and open source 15:24:39 <deOmega> motto: Build it and use it. :) 15:24:41 <skeledrew> that's 8 :) 15:25:28 <flo> if you have more ideas, keep them coming, I'll read the log (I have to go in 5 minutes) 15:25:37 <skeledrew> k 15:25:45 <deOmega> ok 15:26:02 <skeledrew> how about top priority features to be implemented? 15:26:05 <deOmega> vertical tabs have to be in there somewhere in a pitch.. somewhere somehow :) 15:26:24 <flo> skeledrew: you mean a wishlist? 15:26:44 <skeledrew> flo: yeah. but top 5/10 15:26:44 <clokep_work> Wishlist isn't good for a website. :P Points out the things you're lacking. 15:27:48 <flo> clokep_work: so true. We will not put a wishlist on the download page ;) 15:29:52 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 15:30:59 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 15:31:49 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited) 15:34:50 * skeledrew really needs a UPS 15:37:27 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 16:03:34 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 16:09:31 <tymerkaev> hello 16:11:13 <deOmega> tymerkaev: hi 16:27:21 --> tymerkaev_ has joined #instantbird 16:29:25 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 16:29:32 * tymerkaev_ is now known as tymerkaev 16:54:08 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 16:54:30 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 17:04:48 <deOmega> u know 17:05:13 <deOmega> the size of the tabs may actually be fine, if we could make the sice of the status bar smaller 17:05:23 <deOmega> it seems to tale up an aweful lot of space 17:05:31 <deOmega> err.. status icon 17:05:50 <clokep_work> deOmega: I probably need to play w/ the padding around it. 17:05:50 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 17:06:19 <deOmega> well, i am not sure it is you so much, but rather teh setup 17:06:48 <deOmega> i am using a theme that uses a checkmark as opposed to teh round dot.. but either case i think those things take up a lot of space 17:07:42 <deOmega> trying to open a new window with tabs... one moment 17:08:17 <clokep_work> Which is fine when the tabs are horizontal caues there's plenty of room, but vertical the horizontal space is a bit limited (since you don't want them to be 250 pixels wide), so...yeah. 17:09:56 <deOmega> http://i46.tinypic.com/2mh6k37.jpg 17:10:24 <deOmega> I actually pondered that when they were horizantal and i had many tabs opened 17:10:36 <deOmega> so maybe it is a godo idea overall 17:10:37 <clokep_work> flo: I think I just randomly realized why my splitter wouldn't add to the document. :) 17:11:23 <deOmega> clokep_work: please look at that image when u have a moment, as i know u are likely not using the theme i am. 17:12:07 <clokep_work> deOmega: The text in the default theme is a lot smaller, and the images might be as well. 17:12:26 <deOmega> let me e check 17:12:42 <clokep_work> There's a screenshot @ https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/ 17:13:11 <clokep_work> My tabs actually seem quite a bit bigger...maybe limiting the size to 100 px did something. 17:13:29 <clokep_work> The code is very easy to change if you want to try. 17:13:44 <deOmega> my tabs may look smaller because of a setting i have in windows.. those things i did yesterday 17:14:00 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 17:17:14 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 17:18:23 <deOmega> this is with the default 17:18:27 <deOmega> http://i47.tinypic.com/14b19ab.jpg 17:18:58 <deOmega> i need abetter upload site than tiny pic... i hate the security thing on every darn upload 17:19:28 <clokep_work> I usually use twitpic or my own websites. 17:20:42 <clokep_work> I don't remember how big the tabs were -- I'm not using it on my "main" account yet (since I didn't have an XPI yet this morning. :P) 17:20:57 <clokep_work> And the same image on AIO is kind of out of date. 17:20:59 <deOmega> Okay 17:21:07 <clokep_work> That's from like 5 or 6 revisions ago. 17:21:30 <clokep_work> I need to try a few things, but in instantbird.js in the extension there's two fields that specific the min and max height which you could try changing. 17:22:33 <deOmega> sam eplace i went in vertical tabs? 17:23:33 <deOmega> looking 17:31:33 <clokep_work> Not sure what you're asking. 17:34:32 * Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005 17:36:32 --> idechix has joined #instantbird 17:36:44 <deOmega> that is ok... i dound it an d changed the tabs width in there 17:36:51 <deOmega> will test it on restart to see 17:37:00 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 17:37:06 --> idechix has joined #instantbird 17:37:41 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 17:41:07 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 17:41:33 <clokep_work> That work or no? 17:41:37 <deOmega> ok, no change but i am ok for now.. i need to do some work on my end here :) 17:42:04 <deOmega> no change was seen.. i changed from 100px to 150px 17:42:12 <deOmega> both min and max 17:42:21 <clokep_work> Yeah, I didn't think it worked. :) 17:42:30 <deOmega> :) 17:44:46 <deOmega> it really is very good as is.. just seeking perfection i suppose 17:45:24 <clokep_work> Its OK. It needs to be better. 17:54:52 <clokep_work> I need to leave. Have a nice weekend everyone. 17:55:02 <deOmega> clokep_work: You too 17:55:43 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 17:57:00 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 18:05:49 <Mic> 14:30:29 <deOmega> wow, I think when i was following mic directions the other day i was under teh wrong thing. :) 18:06:01 <Mic> hmm, have I explained anything wrong? :S 18:09:24 <deOmega> Mic: no, i was just looking in teh wrong spot 18:09:39 <deOmega> i should have been under roaming 18:12:14 <deOmega> all my fault 18:12:21 <deOmega> was not paying attention 18:12:43 <Mic> What does 'under roaming' mean? 18:22:51 <deOmega> on windows.. users, app data, roaming 18:22:57 <deOmega> I was looking under 'local' 18:23:00 <deOmega> windows directory 18:23:09 <Mic> ah, ok 18:23:58 <Mic> I think typing %APPDATA% in the location bar of explorer or the "RUN" dialog from the start/Windows menu will bring you to the correct folder 18:24:58 <Mic> It does always point to the folder containing the "application data", no matter where it is. Maybe even since Windows 98 or so .. 18:27:33 <deOmega> good tip Mic.. thanks 18:36:20 <Mic> bye 18:36:29 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 18:51:48 --> flo has joined #instantbird 18:51:48 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 19:06:18 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird () 19:39:18 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 19:48:09 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Quit: I must go. Good bye!) 19:49:12 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 20:02:45 <deOmega> have a wonderful weekend all 20:05:10 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 20:23:36 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 21:25:08 <flo> is there anything wrong in the wording of this post: http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-prefwindow.html ? 21:34:10 <FishFace> If I had to pick, you seem to always want to use a comma in almost every sentance. Not needed. 21:34:13 <FishFace> :) 21:35:21 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 21:35:43 <flo> FishFace: so you would remove all the 3 commas? 21:36:14 <skeledrew> some rewording def needed 21:37:03 <FishFace> You might want to do that. The lines are small and to the point. 21:37:40 <-- hicham has quit (Broken pipe) 21:37:40 <flo> skeledrew: suggestions? 21:38:04 <FishFace> The commas removed should be good. 21:38:04 <skeledrew> "The preferences dialog is a new feature in Instantbird 0.2 which will feel famillar to Firefox users." 21:38:20 <FishFace> Yep. Good 21:39:38 --> GeekShad0w has joined #instantbird 21:39:51 * flo updated the page 21:40:42 <FishFace> That is much easier reading. 21:41:00 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 21:41:01 <flo> anything else to change before I post it and go to bed? :) 21:41:14 <skeledrew> "Identical options have been presented to help you" or something 21:41:16 <skeledrew> don't really understand what you're trying to say :( 21:41:38 <flo> https://wiki.instantbird.org/index.php?title=User%3AFqueze%2F0.2_Launch%2Fprefwindow&diff=1024&oldid=1000 21:42:04 <flo> my initial wording was very poor 21:42:09 <FishFace> I would say that the pictures are probably the most important thing. They make the point. 21:42:30 <flo> but the idea is that we avoid forcing the user to re-learn things that are already known 21:42:44 <skeledrew> FishFace: true 21:43:01 <FishFace> Looks ok to me :) 21:43:28 <flo> "the entire application really starts to resemble Firefox. This vibe continues into the preferences and settings dialogue which is identical in layout to that of current Firefox releases. Itâs almost slightly surreal to see different tab headings and options tucked away in such a habitual place" 21:43:38 <flo> (quoted from http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/instant-bird-meets-pidgin-hybrid-chat.html) 21:45:15 <flo> skeledrew: do you get the point I was trying to make now? Any idea of a better wording? 21:45:40 * skeledrew is thinking... 21:49:40 <skeledrew> k 21:50:31 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are even /identical/" 21:50:58 <skeledrew> gotta work on that second sentence. it just doesn't gel for me 21:51:11 <skeledrew> i'll get something eventually 21:51:32 * flo would like to go to bed ;) 21:51:40 <skeledrew> lol 21:52:41 <skeledrew> "There are some also preferences that are very specific to Instantbird" 21:52:47 <flo> I guess for the long term future I'll have to find someone responsible for writing and posting stuff regularly, or just accept that I sometimes post nonsense :) 21:52:50 <skeledrew> *also some 21:53:02 <skeledrew> true 21:53:15 <skeledrew> you find i writer 21:53:22 <skeledrew> i can be an editor :) 21:54:41 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 21:54:42 <skeledrew> review "/And/ there are some also preferences that are very specific to Instantbird" 21:54:57 <skeledrew> *also some 21:55:06 <Mic> Hi 21:55:13 <skeledrew> Mic: hey 21:56:52 --> GeekSh4dow has joined #instantbird 21:56:55 <flo> what about: Some of the options are even the same... <screenshot> ... but some are very specific to Instantbird: <screenshot> ? 21:57:22 <skeledrew> that could work 21:57:31 <-- GeekShad0w has quit (Ping timeout) 21:57:40 <flo> less words :) 21:58:29 <skeledrew> sentence 2: "We made a presentation of the options to get you started:" 21:58:43 <skeledrew> i think i just understand that sentence 21:58:55 <skeledrew> yeah 21:59:33 <skeledrew> and "presentation" still doesn't seem like the right word for some reason... 21:59:56 <flo> layout ? 22:00:16 <skeledrew> ... just as how "identical" threw me off completely 22:00:40 <skeledrew> flo: hmm. nah 22:01:00 <flo> oh well 22:01:07 <skeledrew> lol 22:01:27 <flo> the overall look is the same, you will feel at home, see: <screenshot> 22:01:29 <flo> :-P 22:01:31 <skeledrew> presentation does kinda give the idea, but it's not really used 22:01:51 <skeledrew> hmm 22:01:57 <skeledrew> that's closer 22:02:49 <skeledrew> more natural for a native English speaker ;) 22:04:25 <skeledrew> "The overall look [i'm tempted to say interface or interaction] is the same, as shown here:" 22:05:25 <skeledrew> or "as shown in these screenshots/pictures/whatever:" 22:05:29 <flo> The overall appearance is the same. You will feel at home. But enough words, let's show you some pictures: 22:07:22 <skeledrew> "The overall appearance is the same, making you feel at home. These pictures attest to that:" 22:07:54 <skeledrew> (better replace the word "attest" with a synonym... 22:08:10 <flo> "See for yourself:" ? 22:08:29 <skeledrew> kk fine 22:08:35 <skeledrew> :) 22:09:02 <flo> that phrase always makes me think of Microsoft ads. 22:09:19 <skeledrew> wanted to make it professional sounding, but there are persons who may get loast... 22:09:25 <flo> s/ads/disinformation campaigns/ 22:09:53 <skeledrew> i really don't want to associate IB with M$ 22:10:18 <flo> :) 22:10:21 <skeledrew> i doubt any self respecting open source advocate would :) 22:11:09 <skeledrew> ***may get lost 22:12:30 <skeledrew> "... /and/ some are very specific to Instantbird:" 22:12:55 <skeledrew> shows continuity :) 22:14:45 <Mic> pff 22:14:57 <skeledrew> lol 22:15:16 <Mic> Man, this M$ thing is so ridiculous 22:15:24 <-- GeekSh4dow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !) 22:15:41 <skeledrew> Mic: it's war 22:15:54 <Mic> I suggest saying "Mickey$0ft" for maximum ridiculosity :P 22:16:15 <skeledrew> lmao 22:16:38 * flo needs an acronym checker for lmao 22:16:55 <Mic> :) 22:16:59 <skeledrew> Mic: noone has to adopt my personal view :P 22:17:24 <Mic> We can add a Urban Dictionary search enginge :) 22:17:29 <skeledrew> flo: next release :) 22:17:49 <flo> by the way, using double click for reply to nick sucks too 22:18:05 <skeledrew> flo: not as bad as single 22:18:05 <flo> each time I want to select a word to google it... it puts the nick in the textbox 22:18:41 <skeledrew> you double click to select words? 22:18:45 <skeledrew> k... 22:18:48 <flo> yes 22:19:14 <flo> and I triple click for a sentence 22:19:31 <flo> that makes the target as big as possible when moving the cursor 22:19:40 <skeledrew> k 22:20:06 <skeledrew> you want to change it to a quad click? :P 22:20:46 <flo> could be a middle click for people who have a middle button 22:20:55 <flo> and a single click out of the text 22:21:06 <flo> wouldn't work well for the simple theme though :-/ 22:21:25 <flo> bah, the nick and date would still be clickable 22:21:37 <skeledrew> flo: what i always thought of is a dblclick on the name... 22:21:49 <flo> I just remove the "To help you out..." sentence 22:22:15 <flo> the name is a small target compared to the whole bubble ;) 22:22:30 <skeledrew> user pref :) 22:22:42 <flo> well... maybe 22:23:20 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are the same..." 22:23:41 <skeledrew> "... /and/ some are very specific to Instantbird:" 22:23:41 <flo> ok: single click outside of the text, double click on the nick/time, quad click on the text. 22:23:47 <flo> any idea to make it even more confusing? :-D 22:24:02 <skeledrew> flo: not yet. working on it 22:24:08 <flo> ahah 22:25:07 <skeledrew> i thought it was "haha". "ahah" sounds kinda weird 22:25:19 <flo> could also be single click on the nick, and show a hand cursor (like for links) when hovered 22:25:32 <skeledrew> like some backward smiley's i'veen from some of my friends 22:25:38 <flo> I guess that makes me weird then :) 22:25:54 <skeledrew> *i've seen 22:25:59 <skeledrew> lol 22:26:01 <flo> or French 22:26:13 <skeledrew> i define weird 22:26:15 <flo> if that makes any difference 22:26:17 <skeledrew> :P 22:26:19 <Mic> Insert it on hover? 22:26:38 <flo> Mic: and remove it on mouse out! :) 22:26:39 <skeledrew> hyperlink the nick 22:26:43 <Mic> Exactly 22:26:54 <skeledrew> huh? 22:26:55 <flo> type your message, hover the recipient, press enter 22:27:04 <flo> "oh, you moved the mouse? You lose! :-P" 22:27:08 <skeledrew> and for multiples? 22:27:21 <flo> you've already lost then :) 22:27:27 <skeledrew> lol 22:28:11 <skeledrew> i say hyperlink the nicks 22:28:14 <flo> "Some of the options are even the same, and some are very specific to Instantbird." 22:28:27 <flo> does this look like a logical sentence? 22:28:38 <flo> with "but" it was logical 22:28:43 <skeledrew> nope. scratch the "even" 22:28:50 <flo> (I know using "but" feels negative) 22:28:57 <skeledrew> very 22:29:38 <skeledrew> the "even" doesn't even work with the "but" 22:29:55 <flo> I can't believe we have been bikesheding these stupid 3 lines of text for so long 22:30:17 <flo> "The overall appearance is the same." "Some of the options are even the same" 22:30:20 <flo> that seems to work 22:31:33 <Mic> Need some input? 22:31:33 <skeledrew> i can go for longer :P 22:31:55 <flo> Mic: we are finishing http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-prefwindow.html 22:33:17 <skeledrew> oh. i missed something 22:33:58 <Mic> ... while others are specific to Instantbird: 22:34:05 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are /also/ the same..." 22:34:20 <skeledrew> Mic: WINNER! 22:37:44 <flo> ok! :) 22:37:54 <flo> let's publish it 22:38:46 <skeledrew> :) 22:39:30 <flo> man, I made a typo on "familiar" (wrote "familar") and nobody noticed :( 22:39:49 <skeledrew> flo: i did 22:40:07 <skeledrew> corrected it too 22:40:43 <flo> skeledrew: the findbar respectfully disagrees 22:42:03 <skeledrew> oh dear. i thought i did... 22:42:10 <skeledrew> hmm 22:42:14 <skeledrew> find bar... 22:42:28 <skeledrew> i actually went scrolling manually 22:42:36 <flo> :) 22:42:55 <skeledrew> i'm just not used to it 22:43:11 <skeledrew> and worse there's no ref to it in any menu 22:43:16 <flo> it's impossible to search for something in a conversation without it once you are used to it ;) 22:43:25 <skeledrew> k 22:43:45 <skeledrew> it needs an entry in the context menu though 22:44:01 <flo> I don't think so 22:44:04 <flo> it's not contextual 22:44:24 <flo> it needs something somewhere, but I don't know how we can put it without wasting space 22:44:28 <skeledrew> the convo window context 22:44:33 <flo> a menu item would be good on Mac 22:44:41 <flo> but on Windows/linux it wastes space to add a menu bar 22:44:45 <skeledrew> btw, are there any plans to put a menubar in the convo window? 22:45:01 <skeledrew> user pref :) 22:45:20 <skeledrew> or autohide like FF full screen 22:45:31 <flo> user pref = we weren't clever enough to reach a stable decision ;) 22:45:52 <skeledrew> lol 22:45:55 <skeledrew> no 22:46:03 <skeledrew> user pref is user pref for me 22:46:26 <skeledrew> depending on the desktop, i'll want it off or on 22:46:32 <flo> real users have no preference related to details such as "menu bar or not menu bar" 22:46:51 <skeledrew> ok 22:46:57 <skeledrew> how about autohide 22:47:00 <skeledrew> ? 22:47:18 <Mic> Switches and preferences are very open source-ish though 22:47:18 <flo> the interesting thing when arguing about adding a pref is that once we agree on it, the battle starts over when it's time to decide the default value :) 22:47:50 <Mic> What's a good way for extensions to store information? 22:48:10 <flo> preferences are fine :) 22:48:11 <Mic> like replacement rules for the next generation "link bugzilla" 22:48:21 <Mic> I know you told clokep that 22:48:36 <Mic> I'm just not sure if it is a good solution 22:48:36 <skeledrew> flo: fact is, there're people who love their mouses (mice?), and many don't even use the right click... 22:48:49 <flo> If I was the one coding it, I'd just JSONify the whole thing and put it in a string pref 22:48:52 <skeledrew> Mic: i got the same answer 22:49:45 <skeledrew> flo: are we talking about about:config again? 22:49:50 <flo> skeledrew: "many don't even use the right click" so now you are saying that putting it in the context menu wouldn't work, right? :) 22:50:26 <skeledrew> flo: i'm saying support both menu bar and context menu :P 22:50:34 <flo> skeledrew: not yet :). Once people agree on the default value, they need to agree about exposing it in the preference dialog or not. :) 22:51:18 <flo> the menu bar thing will probably be inevitable for "send a file" and other crappy actions like that 22:51:19 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ : 22:51:20 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n20-preferences-dialog.html - Preferences dialog 22:51:49 <skeledrew> flo: CRAPPY??? 22:52:02 <skeledrew> that's a staple function... 22:52:24 <flo> opening a file picker to select a file, thus hiding the conversation for a while is crappy 22:52:35 <Mic> ah, not again :S 22:52:43 <skeledrew> it's been a nightmare having to tell majority of my friends that my IM doesn't support file xfer 22:52:49 <flo> if you start the transfer by dropping the file, you don't need the menuitem 22:53:36 <skeledrew> flo: that's why i have autoaccept for some of my friends 22:54:05 <flo> yeah, when we do implement file transfer, we need to think about ways to reduce the dialogs poping up for nothing 22:54:24 <skeledrew> the file transfer management dialog needs to be a tab too 22:55:30 <skeledrew> it was pretty nagging typing something only to look up and see a file transfer dialog blocked 90% of what i typed 22:55:46 <flo> :-P 22:55:48 <skeledrew> and it happened pretty often 22:55:59 <flo> it's even worse if typing discards or accept the dialog ;) 22:56:11 <Mic> or even better: space, enter, or some letter actually doing something on the dialog 22:56:12 <skeledrew> yeah 22:56:19 <Mic> :D 22:56:35 * flo thinks all modal dialogs should be eliminated 22:56:45 <skeledrew> same applies for the add buddy notification 22:56:56 * skeledrew thinks so too 22:56:56 <Mic> It doesn't have to be modal to steal the focus ;) 22:57:07 <skeledrew> hmm 22:57:14 <flo> I decided a while ago that we won't ever implement the purple_request and purple_notify APIs like they are expected to work. 22:57:20 <skeledrew> i think an info bar is in order... 22:58:22 <skeledrew> same that you get when FF blocks a site or something 22:58:29 <flo> skeledrew: the way you phrased it includes the solution ;). "add buddy *notification*". It's really a notification that you can make a decision about something, not at all a requirement for taking an action. 22:58:56 <skeledrew> :) 22:59:39 <flo> the add buddy dialogs are probably the worst part of application currently 22:59:51 <flo> well, the proxy settings dialog is very poor too. 22:59:53 <skeledrew> come to think of it, the info bar could be used for many things... 22:59:57 <Mic> ahem .. there is still the log viewer 23:00:09 <skeledrew> Mic: toss it in a tab too 23:00:29 <flo> what about removing it completely? 23:00:31 <skeledrew> though there's no case where it can interrupt your typing... 23:00:37 <Mic> I already tried and gave up because it sucks opening a tab without an attached conversation 23:00:49 <flo> we need to fix that. 23:00:58 <flo> iirc you filed a bug about it :) 23:01:04 <Mic> Yes 23:01:16 <skeledrew> flo: :-s 23:01:17 <Mic> but mostly because we wanted emails for Instantbot ;) 23:01:24 <skeledrew> what's iirc? 23:01:24 <flo> the first thing I'd try to put in a tab is the buddy list :) 23:01:40 <skeledrew> flo: yeah 23:01:43 <Mic> I think it could be nice to use all the space that's there 23:02:22 <skeledrew> tabs always oh so rock 23:02:46 <flo> skeledrew: on OSes that can't manage windows properly ;) 23:03:46 <Mic> reminds me that I have to use Linux everyday :P 23:03:55 <Mic> scnr 23:03:59 <flo> by the way, I wasn't completely joking about removing the log viewer. 23:04:12 <skeledrew> what'd make them rock even more is a plethora of shortcut keys to access them specifically 23:04:13 <Mic> Remoing or replacing? 23:04:38 <flo> the difference between "a conversation where messages sent while offline arrive" and "a conversation that happened in the past" are 2 very similar things 23:05:11 <skeledrew> Mic: more like revamping IMO 23:05:15 <flo> if we start to display the last few messages of the previous conversation when opening a new conversation, the difference between the regular conversation tab and the log viewer will blur even more 23:05:27 <Mic> With a good search and maybe some other things like "bookmarking sections" of conversations I could well imagine ... 23:05:43 <Mic> ... having the old conversation in the conversation area as well 23:05:45 <flo> yeah, we need to investigate that 23:06:14 <flo> first thing to develop is having a way to add messages at the top of a conversation (currently the message theme system only allows appending messages) 23:06:33 <flo> and we need infinite scrolling :) (add messages at the top when the user scrolls up) 23:06:52 <skeledrew> flo: editing the HTML DOM itself? 23:08:49 <flo> if we manage to do that correctly, I'm sure lots of people will discover that logs exist :) 23:08:50 <skeledrew> i like the Digsby log viewer. they have a nifty calendar control to choose your day, and comboboxes for the accounts and users 23:09:18 <skeledrew> yeah 23:09:51 <flo> even when present in the menu bar and context menu, the log viewers are often ignored 23:10:11 <skeledrew> it also has a pref to automatically insert the last <#> of convo lines as history 23:10:33 <Mic> flo: right 23:10:50 <Mic> I look up things on skype quite often 23:10:52 <skeledrew> flo: not by power users 23:11:22 <Mic> Skype has a bar on top of conversations: show last day, yesterday, last week, last month, all 23:11:22 <flo> if it works well, power users will love the feature anyway ;) 23:11:32 <Mic> or something like this and displays it inline 23:12:08 <skeledrew> flo: there're more regular users to power users overall 23:12:44 <flo> :) 23:13:11 <skeledrew> make the history view a default so noone can ignore it :) 23:13:26 <flo> yes 23:13:27 <skeledrew> maybe 5 lines or so 23:13:30 <flo> except in private mode 23:13:41 <skeledrew> yeah 23:13:54 <skeledrew> i don't really support it though 23:14:01 <flo> private mode? 23:14:05 <skeledrew> what's private mode for exactly? 23:14:30 <flo> for using a computer that you don't control without having to worry about traces that could be left on the hard disk 23:14:49 <skeledrew> hmm 23:14:50 <flo> like in a public library for example 23:14:51 <skeledrew> k 23:15:00 <Mic> flo: can logging be changed on a per conversation basis? 23:15:08 <skeledrew> that's one thing i avoid 23:15:10 <Mic> theoretically? 23:15:22 <flo> in the future it will be 23:15:34 <skeledrew> using a public system's IM client 23:15:48 <flo> I would not do it either 23:15:53 <skeledrew> flo: it's not now? 23:15:54 <flo> but I'm not really the average IM user 23:15:55 <skeledrew> :( 23:16:25 <skeledrew> flo: none of us are 23:16:26 <flo> skeledrew: is "now" the 0.2 version or the js-proto branch? 23:16:43 <skeledrew> my version 23:16:47 <skeledrew> 0.2 23:17:03 <flo> in 0.2 the logs are created by libpurple, that does it's stuff 23:17:08 <flo> *its 23:17:18 <skeledrew> oh 23:17:28 <skeledrew> it's a libpurple thing 23:17:46 <skeledrew> Pidgin allows per user logging 23:17:54 <flo> in the js-proto branch, the logs are exactly the same, but created by a JS XPCOM component, where we will be able to add hooks for add-on authors :) 23:18:29 <flo> per user or per conversation? 23:18:42 <skeledrew> buddy 23:18:42 <flo> is the setting saved in any way? 23:18:52 <Mic> how extensive are the patches on libpurple by now? 23:18:56 <skeledrew> flo: XML files 23:19:08 <flo> massive removals 23:19:12 <Mic> I think removing the logger killed hundreds of lines 23:19:24 <flo> thousands 23:19:39 <Mic> fine with me ;) 23:20:14 <flo> libpurple's log.c file is about 2000 lines long 23:21:56 <flo> but I don't count file removals as "patches" :) 23:22:15 <flo> my libpurple upgrade script just removes them before creating the diffs :) 23:22:18 <skeledrew> all we need is an interface to read/write the logs. we'll addonify the rest :) 23:23:14 <flo> :) 23:25:00 <Mic> good night now 23:25:05 <flo> good idea :) 23:25:08 <flo> good night :) 23:25:32 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 23:26:30 <skeledrew> k 23:28:08 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 23:36:28 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 23:39:48 <-- Even has quit (Connection reset by peer) 23:39:56 --> Even has joined #instantbird 23:39:56 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even