#instantbird log on 07 02 2010

All times are UTC.

00:19:01 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:54:28 <clokep> Code is up but haven't made an XPI yet.
01:02:18 <skeledrew> clokep: weird. i'm not seeing you in my chat list. it says there're 9 participants, but i'm only seeing 7, excluding you
01:07:10 <clokep> skeledrew: I'm here. :)
01:07:46 <skeledrew> clokep: but you're not in my participant list
01:08:45 <clokep> OK...but I'm here. :P
01:08:52 <clokep> So the list is a lie.
01:09:00 <skeledrew> lol
01:09:11 <skeledrew> wonder which side that bug's on
01:11:43 <clokep> Could be both. ;)
01:19:29 <clokep> You have any luck with your extensions skeledrew?
01:34:59 <skeledrew> clokep: currently paused. am learning from the basics.
01:36:04 <clokep> Ah, OK. Well if you ever want to see bad code you can look at my extensions. :P
01:36:16 <skeledrew> clokep: ok
01:36:20 <skeledrew> link
01:36:37 <clokep> http://code.google.com/p/vertical-tabs/
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01:51:47 <clokep> flo: " Oops! There seems to be a problem with this file...The following error occurred while parsing install.rdf: Mismatched tag  Please correct this problem and upload your file again."
01:51:55 <clokep> That's the AIO error when I try to upload. :(
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01:56:39 <clokep> flo: The offending file, which seems valid to me: http://code.google.com/p/vertical-tabs/source/browse/install.rdf but I don't know where on AIO I can check which versions are valid?
02:14:19 <clokep> Bah Instantbird crashed.
02:27:10 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
02:29:56 <clokep> I now have attached tabs. :)
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04:16:58 * Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK
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05:19:57 <flo> clokep: where do you close the Description tag opened at line 41 ?
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06:40:20 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
06:40:21 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
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07:36:47 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
07:41:23 <flo> good morning :)
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09:10:57 <skeledrew> morning
09:12:52 <skeledrew> weird. even after a restart, my chatters list is still malfunctioning. says there're 8 persons in the room, but only 4 names are showing
09:15:06 <flo> could it be that some network packets are lost between the IRC server and you?
09:16:07 <skeledrew> dunno. but aren't they supposed to be ack'd and resend if there're failures?
09:16:48 <flo> hmm, at the network level yes
09:17:11 <flo> well, I don't know how half the list gets lost then
09:18:24 <skeledrew> last night 2 or 3 were lost
09:19:05 <skeledrew> hmm. lemme check DOM Inspector...
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09:20:20 <skeledrew_dev> all's well on this point
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09:20:53 <skeledrew> restarting...
09:21:14 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2)
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09:22:19 <skeledrew> looks fine
09:23:02 <skeledrew> probably a cumulative bug or something
09:23:47 <skeledrew> i'll check in the next few hours
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10:08:11 <Mic> flo: it seems that on AMO an addon can have several authors
10:08:18 <Mic> Does this apply for AIO as well?
10:08:22 <flo> yes
10:09:56 <Mic> In the sense that all of them can add new versions and change details of the addon?
10:10:17 <flo> I think
10:10:18 <flo> so
10:10:26 <Mic> :)
10:11:31 <Mic> If clokep does some changes on the linkbugzilla extension, I should ask if he's interested in access to the extension on AIO
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10:55:07 <Mic> clokep: I was thinking to make you author of linkbugzilla on AIO if you still plan to update it
10:56:00 <clokep> Mic: Its /planned/, want to roll out a working version of Vertical Tabs first.
10:56:26 <clokep> Maybe I'll get to it this weekend while on vacation. :) I feel like it should only take a good hour. :P
10:56:28 <Mic> I've noticed that you seem to be working hard on this one atm
10:56:45 <clokep> Mic: I was just going to update it and file a bug in bugzilla w/ a patch.
10:56:54 <clokep> AIO doesn't seem to be letting me upload things ATM so...
10:57:38 <Mic> That's strange .. maybe file a bug on this as well
10:57:58 <Mic> or ping Even
10:58:11 <clokep> Yeah, I will. But sure you can add me as an author if it makes it easier.  Is the uploaded version the same as source right now?
10:58:19 <Mic> no
10:58:26 <clokep> Mic: Well I need to make sure its /not/ my fault, it might be. O:-)
10:58:42 <Mic> The uploaded version is localizable while the one on the addons hg repository is not
10:58:59 <Mic> I failed to notice that flo's makefile actually supports localization
10:59:13 <Mic> not that it is of any importance in this case ;)
10:59:29 <clokep> Mic: Ohhh, it will be once we add more features though. :)
10:59:52 <Mic> I know I haven't done anything for ages now
11:00:16 <Mic> The ultimate goal was to provide an extension that can turn strings into links via regexp replacements
11:00:52 <Mic> So you just add replacement rules and it can serve different things depending on the regexp, the buddy/channel/server/ ..
11:01:02 <clokep> Right.
11:02:02 <clokep> If [buddy|channel|server|protocol] matches /some_expression/ then replace /some_expression/ with /some_replacement_expression/. ;)
11:02:09 <clokep> We can't just put tha tline somewhere? :P
11:02:58 <clokep> And I figured it'd come "preprogrammed" with BMO and BIO?
11:03:20 <Mic> I think it would be a nice thing to have a sort of "context api"
11:03:43 <Mic> that would give an easy way to figure out exactly these things, maybe even geolocation or so
11:04:11 <Mic> flo once thought about an extension that automatically changes your network setting depending on where you actually are
11:04:16 <Mic> iirc
11:04:28 <Mic> FishFace: welcome
11:04:39 <FishFace> Hi Mic
11:04:52 <Mic> Is there anything we can help you with?
11:05:03 <FishFace> Good thing I came in and read the topic. The 2b2 got me on Yahoo
11:05:35 <FishFace> So I am good
11:05:53 <Mic> Fine :)
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11:12:30 * clokep has no idea how to "make" the extensions from hg.instantbird.org/addons.
11:12:55 <MicTest> there should be a makefile in the directory of the extension
11:13:12 <clokep> Yeah, I know. I just need to actually play w/ it...
11:13:14 <Mic> Which includes the file in the root
11:13:21 <clokep> Mic: I'm not sure what you mean by context api?
11:13:33 <clokep> You mean like highlight a word and be like "always link this to"
11:14:00 <Mic> something that allows you to easily get the information who you are talking to, on which server, protocol, from which location, ..
11:14:10 <Mic> instead of having to collect this from various sources
11:14:37 <clokep> So like right click > create linker for this chat.
11:14:47 <clokep> Can that be in the next version? :)
11:14:55 <Mic> no, unrelated to the linkbugzilla extension
11:15:00 <clokep> Ohhhh hahaha.
11:15:05 <clokep> Sorry, I didn't get the shift there.
11:15:17 <clokep> So a "Properties" context menu? ;)
11:15:39 <Mic> no, for internal use
11:16:06 * clokep very confused.
11:16:20 <Mic> It's not clear in my mind either :P
11:16:36 <Mic> Let's talk another day about this, I need to get back at work
11:19:14 <clokep> I need to /go/ to work. :)
11:19:18 <instantbot> New Websites - bugzilla.instantbird.org bug 428 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
11:19:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Need Product:Addons + Components in Bugzilla
11:27:24 <-- MicTest has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
11:31:17 <flo> clokep: good morning :). Have you seen http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today#m29 ?
11:33:28 <clokep> flo: Nah, thanks.
11:33:37 <clokep> Why doesn't Instantbird throw an error on that. :p
11:33:49 * clokep that's what I get for always copy and pasting my install.rdf from my other extensions.
11:33:57 * flo doesn't want to know who the rdf parser works
11:34:12 <flo> *how
11:34:25 <clokep> Haha. Fair enough.
11:34:36 <clokep> Apparently the one on AIO is better though.
11:34:39 <clokep> Or stricter.
11:34:43 <clokep> I have to go to work I'll be back.
11:34:44 <flo> there's probably some dark magic inside this
11:34:56 <flo> I guess AIO treats that as a regular xml file
11:35:06 <clokep> Probably.
11:36:01 * flo wishes there was at least one person who has already done successfully a localization of Instantbird here :-/
11:36:19 <clokep> They're all only partially done? :-\ Or you mean on IRC?
11:36:23 * clokep only speaks American. ;)
11:36:45 <flo> I've a translator for a new locale who needs help, and I guess the explanations would be clearer if they come from another translator
11:37:03 <flo> and I'm not particularly a good person to help with setting up tortoiseHG (which I've never used)
11:37:33 <clokep> flo: I can do that.
11:37:40 <clokep> I use TortoiseHg, its pretty ballin'.
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11:44:37 <Mic> shouldn't an rdf file be valid xml anyways?
11:44:54 <Mic> theoretically? ;)
11:46:32 <flo> that's why AIO is unhappy about it ;)
11:47:06 <Mic> How can Ib accept it then? I mean they hopefully use the xml parser to read it?
11:47:16 <hicham> IB is unhappy with the default theme
11:47:27 <hicham> though the min and max version are ok
11:47:38 <flo> Mic: probably not.
11:48:05 <flo> I guess there's an rdf parser that reads the file without parsing it fully
11:49:53 <Mic> ok, doesn't really matter
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12:17:41 <clokep_work> flo: You're waiting for Instantbird localizations or extensions?
12:18:01 <flo> waiting? no.
12:18:07 <flo> But encouraging people... I try :).
12:19:16 * hicham may offer an arabic translation
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12:27:30 * clokep_work editing the How to translate page.
12:28:35 * skeledrew waves
12:32:36 <clokep_work> Good mornign.
12:33:07 <skeledrew> morning
12:35:57 <Mic> 'morning'
12:38:11 * skeledrew is thinking of an autorespond greeting addon...
12:38:35 <Mic> You can abuse the "Highlight" addon to do this ;)
12:38:59 <skeledrew> hmm
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12:43:47 <clokep_work> Not sure what this sentence is asking the user to do. :-/
12:43:50 <clokep_work> "When you have multiple corrections to do to different files, if it is possible, try to regroup modifications that go together and do them by group and to save on TortoiseHg between each "group correction". Etc."
12:46:23 <flo> I guess it's for example if a new feature was checked in and new strings were added for it, it's better to commit all the changes related to that feature at once, even if they touch several files
12:46:30 <flo> I'm not sure this really matters
12:47:05 <clokep_work> Ohhh I see.
12:50:47 <skeledrew> where's the highlight addon? i've looked in the sections and done a search
12:51:32 <skeledrew> *search on AIO
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13:01:43 <clokep_work> Parts of this are wrong flo. :-/ A Commit in Hg doesn't send changes to the server, a "Push" does.
13:02:20 <flo> the commit is what will stay visible in the history though ;)
13:02:39 <flo> and I'm not the author of that page
13:02:52 <clokep_work> I know. I'm working on it. :)
13:03:13 <clokep_work> Trying to do it without the jargon that deOmega hates so much. :(
13:03:22 <flo> I suggested once that it would be better to separate the hg tutorial from the information about the localization process (that can be used as a cheat sheet for translators)
13:03:51 <deOmega> clokep_work:  good morning
13:04:03 <deOmega> good morning  flo and all
13:04:27 <flo> by the way, the question that is asked all the time by new translators is "where do I find the english files to translate?"
13:04:28 <skeledrew> hey deOmega
13:04:47 <clokep_work> flo: And what's the answer to that. ;)
13:04:55 <deOmega> NO, i do not hate the jargon... because I actually smile..  I have much respect for people that are so verse on things I have no clue and it makes me smile
13:05:01 <flo> get them from the source code repository of Instantbird
13:07:05 <deOmega> wow.. IBM  has made the network-wide jump to firefox.
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13:08:52 <clokep_work> Ah, some of it is just cause its an older version of TortoiseHg. :)
13:25:53 <deOmega> clokep_work: any luck uploading the gift?
13:26:35 <clokep_work> deOmega: I uploaded my code, but AIO wouldn't let me upload the package since I couldn't find my error, flo found it for me today. Maybe I'll upload it during lunch today.
13:26:54 <deOmega> OK, thank you.
13:26:58 <deOmega> sounds awesome
13:27:24 <clokep_work> Then you guys can all file bugs about everything that's wrong. ;) Haha.
13:27:49 <clokep_work> Still one thing that's bothering me a lot, but I think I need to change some JS code to do it and its goign to be a bit more intense then I want it to be, oh well.
13:29:12 * clokep_work is done editing.
13:29:19 <deOmega> I believe we will use it with appreciation and realize that it is at the very early stages
13:30:02 <clokep_work> deOmega: I'm fine with bugs as long as they haven't been filed before. :)
13:31:32 <clokep_work> flo: That is a pretty massive page, it should probably be split up to explaining the process of becoming a localizer, etc. then how someone actually gets the files using TortoiseHg.
13:31:50 <flo> yes :)
13:57:18 <clokep_work> deOmega: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/
13:58:03 <deOmega> ha!
13:58:05 <deOmega> Thank you
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13:59:38 <clokep_work> Either he quit to install it or that's the only reason he was hanging around. ;)
14:00:08 <flo> it's not perfect on mac ;)
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14:01:07 <clokep_work> flo: Does it even work on Mac? It currently doesn't change a single setting in tabbrower.css, I'm sure it looks pretty ugly. :(
14:01:09 <deOmega> I cannot complain :))))))))))))))))))))   thank you VERY much.
14:01:21 <clokep_work> Probably still trying to "attach" to the top instead of the left?
14:02:03 <clokep_work> deOmega: You're welcome. The one thing that really bothers me is the 2 pixel shift if you have 1 tab open...then open another. :(
14:02:34 <deOmega> i will show you what i have in a couple images
14:02:41 <flo> clokep_work: http://queze.net/goinfre/verttabmac.png
14:03:44 <clokep_work> flo: Right, I have max-height: 22px set in winstripe, but haven't done pinstripe yet. :) Consider it a feature that they take up the maximum amount of space so you have no unused spaced?
14:04:02 <flo> definitely a feature!
14:04:24 <flo> having small targets on the side is hard to hit quickly with the mouse cursor
14:05:18 <clokep_work> flo: I suppose, if you're shifting from the right you target a 22px high tab instead of a 100 to 250 px wide tab from below.
14:05:32 <clokep_work> I usuallt Ctrl+Tab, so the tabs are just a way to see /who/ I'm talking to.
14:05:45 <clokep_work> s/usuallt/usually
14:06:01 <flo> clokep_work: that issue (the 22px target) is actually the real reason why I didn't want to have vertical tabs implemented in Instantbird by default ;)
14:06:26 <clokep_work> flo: Makes sense, especially for the average user.
14:06:51 * clokep_work should make it so the tabs start in the top left, go to top right, then wrap to bottom right, etc. ;)
14:07:09 <flo> we should get rid of all these background images and replace them with css gradients
14:07:54 <clokep_work> flo: We should replace them w/ glass. ;)
14:08:09 <flo> depending on the platform ;)
14:08:49 <clokep_work> So my assumption was that the mac tabs should "attach" to the left side instead of the top, is that reasonable? Or should they attach to the content like windows?
14:09:11 <flo> to the left sounds good to me
14:09:17 <flo> I'm not a mac theme expert though ;)
14:09:29 <clokep_work> You're more of one then me. :)
14:09:35 <flo> it would be nice to have the first tab attach to both the top and left :)
14:10:01 <deOmega> ah, i detatched this tab and i lost it for a moment
14:10:22 <deOmega> Try detatching a tab and see what happens
14:10:40 <deOmega> clokep_work: I REALLy like it .. Thank you very much
14:10:44 <flo> deOmega: the window is created way too far at the bottom of the screen
14:10:49 <clokep_work> deOmega: I'm not running Instantbird right now. And detaching/attaching tabs worked when I tried it briefly.
14:11:00 <deOmega> ok
14:11:24 <clokep_work> Weird, might have to do with the X/Y information that gets stored. I'll check it out.
14:11:56 <deOmega> mine was created off teh screen at the top.. i had to use win+ -> to bring it back, so it will likely work well now
14:12:15 <deOmega> I am using  multiple monitors by the way
14:12:31 <flo> clokep_work: yeah, it's possible that you use the left coordinate as the top of the window
14:13:58 <clokep_work> Perhaps...where I keep my IM window on my computer the "left" and "top" are ~=
14:15:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: Does reattaching the tab work correctly though? ;)
14:15:33 <clokep_work> (I know you can't change the order still, but it should go to the bottom.)
14:18:04 <deOmega> sorry .. let me try
14:18:33 <clokep_work> Pretty sure I know the issue.
14:19:57 <deOmega> yes, it reattaches just fine
14:20:55 <clokep_work> I'm overriding _onDragEnd but I changed pretty much every "x" and "y" without really reading them. :) Some of them don't need to be changed.
14:21:29 <deOmega> clokep_work: Let me  update youplease
14:21:47 <deOmega> If i  drag to an empty place on teh desktop.. it works fine
14:22:11 <deOmega> but if I drag and drop say on firefox of another app... that is when it gets lost
14:22:33 <deOmega> or if i  drop on IB itself...  i have tod rop it directly to teh desktop for it to work fine
14:22:50 <clokep_work> deOmega: That's strange, I see part of the problem them. I'm telling the window to be created at (yOffset,xOffset), that's pretty wrong. :)
14:22:56 <clokep_work> By about a rotation of 90 degrees. ;)
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14:23:21 <deOmega> cooooooooooool
14:23:54 <clokep_work> If you're not busy you can test something for me in your profile.
14:24:03 <deOmega> hmm, i may be wrong.. let me try something else here...  seems i have to  drop them on my  main moitor only
14:24:38 <clokep_work> Open <your profiled dir>/extensions/vertical-tabs@patrick.cloke/content/instantbird.js
14:24:49 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2)
14:25:21 <deOmega> ok
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14:25:25 <clokep_work> Lines 93 - 94, win.moveTo(eY - draggedTab._dragOffsetY, eX - draggedTab._dragOffsetX); swap the xs and ys, so it becomes win.moveTo(eX - draggedTab._dragOffsetX, eY - draggedTab._dragOffsetY);
14:25:52 * clokep_work went regex crazy when editing that function.
14:26:11 * skeledrew_dev is taking vert-tabs on a test run...
14:27:51 <deOmega> clokep_work:   hmm
14:28:25 <deOmega> trying to find that location  ha!
14:28:52 <clokep_work> You're on Windows...XP? Vista?
14:29:07 <deOmega> windows 7
14:29:21 <clokep_work> Its in C:\users\<username>\AppData\Instantbird\Profiles\...
14:29:40 <deOmega> i see it... under roaming. thank you
14:30:29 <deOmega> wow, I think when i was following mic directions the other day i was under teh wrong thing. :)
14:30:33 <clokep_work> Right, I forgot that one. :)
14:37:20 <skeledrew> clokep_work: adddon working great except for a minor positioning quirk
14:37:37 <skeledrew> good work :)
14:37:38 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Yeah, it moves 2 pixels.
14:38:01 <clokep_work> Thanks.
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14:38:38 <skeledrew> no. when i drag convo tabs to windows, it goes somewhere else
14:39:57 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird
14:40:13 <deOmega> just did my first  real programming :)
14:40:17 <deOmega> it works
14:40:37 <deOmega> no need to minimize it please... just agree that i did hehe
14:40:52 <clokep_work> deOmega: Awesome! Do you understand what I messed up? :) Thanks for the confirmation.
14:41:18 <deOmega> Yeah, i kinda got the idea
14:41:35 <flo> where's the pizza? :)
14:41:43 <deOmega> hahah
14:41:46 <skeledrew> clokep_work: drag-dropping tabs is kinda a pain too. i have to separate the tab into a window first...
14:42:32 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Drag and drop isn't supported yet. :P
14:42:32 <deOmega> flo, remember that blue u thought was out of place?...  stay tuned
14:42:49 <flo> no :-S
14:43:11 <flo> blue what?
14:43:28 <deOmega> the blur e background for the tabs  with themes
14:43:46 <deOmega> u will remember, hang on
14:44:43 <skeledrew> clokep_work: k
14:44:48 <deOmega> http://i47.tinypic.com/2is6vl2.jpg
14:45:18 <hicham> nice work clokep_work 
14:45:29 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2)
14:45:51 <deOmega> http://i46.tinypic.com/nyicyr.jpg
14:46:01 <deOmega> i have two more please
14:46:11 <hicham> is the addon ready ?
14:46:25 <deOmega> ah,  i think those convey teh message
14:46:29 <clokep_work> hicham: Its usable, its not done. There's a few issues with it.
14:46:46 <hicham> clokep_work: can i test it ?
14:46:51 <clokep_work> deOmega: So....uhhh...what happens if you have too many buddies open?
14:47:12 <deOmega> hicham: if you are not aprogrammer like myself...  wait a  minute  lol.. jk
14:47:18 <clokep_work> hicham: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/
14:48:10 <hicham> thanks
14:48:46 <deOmega> with too many buddies...  you are out of luck as it does not give a scroll wheel nor does it scroll.. u would have t increase the window height manually
14:49:18 <clokep_work> deOmega: OK. Didn't test it with that many yet. I'll add it to the list of bugs...
14:49:34 <deOmega> ok.. thank you
14:49:48 <deOmega> can i modify the width of teh tabs?
14:50:10 <deOmega> or is that something u will implement
14:50:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: /I/ can't even modify them yet. ;) There's a couple of lines in there that say mTabWidthMax and Min or whatever, but I don't think they work?
14:50:41 <deOmega> flo: so.. u see teh babyblue from  windows  where there are no tabs?
14:50:54 <flo> yes
14:51:05 <clokep_work> deOmega: I hope to make it so that separator is a splitter that can be dragged back and forth, but I'm not sure its possible.
14:51:18 <deOmega> ok, that now becomes the background for the side tabs .. and so.. wider
14:51:28 <flo> why wouldn't it be possible? :)
14:51:36 <deOmega> ah,,  that sounds good
14:51:47 <clokep_work> flo: XUL doesn't seem to like me using replaceChild on anonymous content?
14:51:52 <clokep_work> But I didn't really try yet.
14:53:46 <deOmega> man,  i am  saying... thys really adds anew dimension to IB.  Way to go.
14:57:07 <deOmega> so.. personally... those are the two  things now i would  say...  adjustable width and scrollable tabs column
14:57:11 <clokep_work> Glad you like it.
14:57:24 <clokep_work> Scrollable tabs is kind of a big issue. :(
14:57:59 <clokep_work> Adjustable width you're going to have to wait a little bit for I think...
14:58:09 <skeledrew> clokep_work: maybe it doesn't have to be TRULY scrollable
14:58:10 <deOmega> that is ok...  I am sure not  many  people out of teh gate gonna be chatting with as many people in as asmall a window
14:58:30 <clokep_work> deOmega: How many can you fit?
14:59:09 <clokep_work> skeledrew: The scrollability (is that a word?) should be able to be pulled from the normal sideways scrolling, I just have a feeling its not being triggered because it probably checks widths or something, not heights.
14:59:16 <flo> why is it hard to make them scrollable?
14:59:21 <deOmega> 9
14:59:26 <flo> isn't this a vertical arrowscrollbox?
14:59:44 <flo> uh
14:59:49 * flo types too slowly :(
15:00:23 <skeledrew> clokep_work: you could detect the scrolling event (or whatever) and dynamically create/destroy the tabs corresponding to the direction being scrolled...
15:00:25 <clokep_work> flo: I think the buttons just aren't showing up?
15:00:48 <clokep_work> skeledrew: That's ridiculous. I'm not going to recreate what the XUL framework can do for me.
15:01:06 <skeledrew> clokep_work: lol. k
15:01:21 <clokep_work> deOmega: Did you try scrolling with a scrollwheel or just that the buttons don't pop up?
15:01:35 <deOmega> sorry... i answered the  amount of tabs too slowly...  actually, I can fit 10 folks.
15:02:02 <deOmega> oh   wait...  i do not know what happened
15:02:08 <deOmega> but it is now scrollable 
15:02:18 <deOmega> the buttons pops up now
15:02:35 <deOmega> are you guys  screwing with me?
15:02:51 <clokep_work> No, why?
15:03:28 <deOmega> i swear i had more tabs opened before and teh scroll bars did not show up.. but now they are here.
15:03:46 <deOmega> even works with teh mousewheel
15:03:57 <clokep_work> Did you do something different? Like instead of opening the extra tabs you resized the window to do it?
15:04:49 <flo> the arrows not showing up may be cause by an overflow: CSS property.
15:04:49 <deOmega> to be honest.. and this is why it is slow to respond... i am  chatting with folks in between and sadly, kinda hard to keep track of what i did... sorry.
15:05:37 <deOmega> THIS iS  FANTASTIC!
15:06:02 <clokep_work> deOmega: Not a problem. I'll do my own testing at some point anyway, probably not this weekend though -- holiday and all.
15:06:18 <deOmega> no, this cannot wait :)
15:07:50 <clokep_work> OK...? What is it?
15:08:16 <deOmega> I was just  kidding around
15:08:38 <deOmega> i was saying this work cannot wait for you to enjoy your weekend
15:09:31 <clokep_work> Ah, I see. :) Yeah. Well I'm going away, so might not get much done.
15:10:15 <deOmega> flo: that baby blue area and now the baby blue scrollbars... I may try to see if i can  look into the theme ofix it... the author said that he is  not using windows so he cannot see and so he won't be able to address it
15:12:31 <flo> if you needed to list the 5 most important features of Instantbird, what would you list? (I'm writing the content of the new website and need ideas ;))
15:13:24 <skeledrew> flo: implemented or wishes?
15:13:24 <clokep_work> Multiprotocol.
15:13:27 <deOmega> I want to contribute to that list.. let me  gather mine
15:13:39 <flo> alerady implemented in 0.2
15:14:02 <flo> (actually, I already have made up such a list, but I'd like to be sure that I haven't missed something important)
15:14:07 <deOmega> so basically.. these ar ethings that are NOt in  teh program already?
15:14:19 <flo> no
15:14:46 <flo> if you wanted to make some marketing document "selling" Instantbird, why would you you "think" people need it?
15:14:51 <deOmega> ah, i  read the program wrong
15:15:03 <deOmega> teh question
15:15:03 <deOmega> Ok
15:15:40 <clokep_work> Multiprotocol, fits into the operating system, easily extensible, free (with no spyware/crapware), open-source, easy to use, stable...
15:18:39 <skeledrew> multiproto, extensibility potential via addons, light on resources, scrollable tabs and built in Facebook support (when do we get Twitter?)
15:18:40 <skeledrew> all in that order
15:19:01 <flo> twitter is planed for 0.3
15:19:12 <skeledrew> k
15:21:20 <flo> believe it or not, I didn't have "free", "extensible" (!), "open source", "stable" in my initial list :-D.
15:21:52 <deOmega> this is harder than it looks :)
15:22:46 <clokep_work> flo: What /was/ in the list then?!
15:22:49 <flo> I had "Customizable conversations", "All protocols", "All OSes", "Conversations in tabs", "Simplicity" (= clutter free, no ads), "powerful tools just when you need them"
15:23:17 <deOmega> Multiprotocal including facebook and  many of the popular  services, IRC, Free with no spyware or ads of any sort, As flexible as firefox, Easy to use with  impressive stability, horizantal and vertical tabbed interface, extreme customization via addons.
15:23:36 <deOmega> i guess i had to be long-winded lol
15:24:20 <skeledrew> like to add portability, community support and open source
15:24:39 <deOmega> motto: Build it and use it. :)
15:24:41 <skeledrew> that's 8 :)
15:25:28 <flo> if you have more ideas, keep them coming, I'll read the log (I have to go in 5 minutes)
15:25:37 <skeledrew> k
15:25:45 <deOmega> ok
15:26:02 <skeledrew> how about top priority features to be implemented?
15:26:05 <deOmega> vertical tabs have to be in there somewhere in a pitch.. somewhere somehow :)
15:26:24 <flo> skeledrew: you mean a wishlist?
15:26:44 <skeledrew> flo: yeah. but top 5/10
15:26:44 <clokep_work> Wishlist isn't good for a website. :P Points out the things you're lacking.
15:27:48 <flo> clokep_work: so true. We will not put a wishlist on the download page ;)
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15:34:50 * skeledrew really needs a UPS
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16:09:31 <tymerkaev> hello
16:11:13 <deOmega> tymerkaev: hi
16:27:21 --> tymerkaev_ has joined #instantbird
16:29:25 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout)
16:29:32 * tymerkaev_ is now known as tymerkaev
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17:04:48 <deOmega> u know
17:05:13 <deOmega> the size of the tabs may actually be fine, if we could make the sice of the status bar smaller
17:05:23 <deOmega> it seems to tale up an aweful lot of space
17:05:31 <deOmega> err.. status icon
17:05:50 <clokep_work> deOmega: I probably need to play w/ the padding around it.
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17:06:19 <deOmega> well, i am not sure it  is you so much,  but rather teh setup
17:06:48 <deOmega> i am using a theme that  uses a checkmark as opposed to teh round dot.. but either case i think those things take up a lot of space
17:07:42 <deOmega> trying to open  a new window with tabs... one moment
17:08:17 <clokep_work> Which is fine when the tabs are horizontal caues there's plenty of room, but vertical the horizontal space is a bit limited (since you don't want them to be 250 pixels wide), so...yeah.
17:09:56 <deOmega> http://i46.tinypic.com/2mh6k37.jpg
17:10:24 <deOmega> I actually pondered that when they were horizantal and  i had many tabs opened
17:10:36 <deOmega> so maybe it is a godo idea overall
17:10:37 <clokep_work> flo: I think I just randomly realized why my splitter wouldn't add to the document. :)
17:11:23 <deOmega> clokep_work: please look at that image when u have a moment, as i know  u are likely not using the theme i am.
17:12:07 <clokep_work> deOmega: The text in the default theme is a lot smaller, and the images might be as well.
17:12:26 <deOmega> let me e check
17:12:42 <clokep_work> There's a screenshot @ https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244/
17:13:11 <clokep_work> My tabs actually seem quite a bit bigger...maybe limiting the size to 100 px did something.
17:13:29 <clokep_work> The code is very easy to change if you want to try.
17:13:44 <deOmega> my tabs may look smaller because of a setting i have in  windows.. those things i did yesterday
17:14:00 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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17:18:23 <deOmega> this is with the default
17:18:27 <deOmega> http://i47.tinypic.com/14b19ab.jpg
17:18:58 <deOmega> i need abetter upload site than tiny pic... i hate the security thing on every darn upload
17:19:28 <clokep_work> I usually use twitpic or my own websites.
17:20:42 <clokep_work> I don't remember how big the tabs were -- I'm not using it on my "main" account yet (since I didn't have an XPI yet this morning. :P)
17:20:57 <clokep_work> And the same image on AIO is kind of out of date.
17:20:59 <deOmega> Okay
17:21:07 <clokep_work> That's from like 5 or 6 revisions ago.
17:21:30 <clokep_work> I need to try a few things, but in instantbird.js in the extension there's two fields that specific the min and max height which you could try changing.
17:22:33 <deOmega> sam eplace i went in vertical tabs?
17:23:33 <deOmega> looking
17:31:33 <clokep_work> Not sure what you're asking.
17:34:32 * Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005
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17:36:44 <deOmega> that is ok...  i dound it an d changed the tabs width in there
17:36:51 <deOmega> will test it on restart to see
17:37:00 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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17:41:33 <clokep_work> That work or no?
17:41:37 <deOmega> ok, no change but  i am ok for now.. i need to do some work on my end here :)
17:42:04 <deOmega> no change was seen.. i changed from  100px to 150px
17:42:12 <deOmega> both min and max
17:42:21 <clokep_work> Yeah, I didn't think it worked. :)
17:42:30 <deOmega> :)
17:44:46 <deOmega> it really is very good as is.. just  seeking perfection i suppose
17:45:24 <clokep_work> Its OK. It needs to be better.
17:54:52 <clokep_work> I need to leave. Have a nice weekend everyone.
17:55:02 <deOmega> clokep_work: You too
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18:05:49 <Mic> 14:30:29 <deOmega> wow, I think when i was following mic directions the other day i was under teh wrong thing. :)
18:06:01 <Mic> hmm, have I explained anything wrong? :S
18:09:24 <deOmega> Mic: no, i  was just looking in teh wrong spot
18:09:39 <deOmega> i should have been under roaming
18:12:14 <deOmega> all my fault
18:12:21 <deOmega> was not paying attention
18:12:43 <Mic> What does 'under roaming' mean?
18:22:51 <deOmega> on windows..  users, app data, roaming
18:22:57 <deOmega> I was looking under 'local'
18:23:00 <deOmega> windows directory
18:23:09 <Mic> ah, ok
18:23:58 <Mic> I think typing %APPDATA% in the location bar of explorer or the "RUN" dialog from the start/Windows menu will bring you to the correct folder
18:24:58 <Mic> It does always point to the folder containing the "application data", no matter where it is. Maybe even since Windows 98 or so ..
18:27:33 <deOmega> good tip Mic.. thanks
18:36:20 <Mic> bye
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18:51:48 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
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20:02:45 <deOmega> have a wonderful weekend all
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21:25:08 <flo> is there anything wrong in the wording of this post: http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-prefwindow.html ?
21:34:10 <FishFace> If I had to pick, you seem to always want to use a comma in almost every sentance. Not needed.
21:34:13 <FishFace> :)
21:35:21 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
21:35:43 <flo> FishFace: so you would remove all the 3 commas?
21:36:14 <skeledrew> some rewording def needed
21:37:03 <FishFace> You might want to do that. The lines are small and to the point.
21:37:40 <-- hicham has quit (Broken pipe)
21:37:40 <flo> skeledrew: suggestions?
21:38:04 <FishFace> The commas removed should be good.
21:38:04 <skeledrew> "The preferences dialog is a new feature in Instantbird 0.2 which will feel famillar to Firefox users."
21:38:20 <FishFace> Yep. Good
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21:39:51 * flo updated the page
21:40:42 <FishFace> That is much easier reading.
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21:41:01 <flo> anything else to change before I post it and go to bed? :)
21:41:14 <skeledrew> "Identical options have been presented to help you" or something
21:41:16 <skeledrew> don't really understand what you're trying to say :(
21:41:38 <flo> https://wiki.instantbird.org/index.php?title=User%3AFqueze%2F0.2_Launch%2Fprefwindow&diff=1024&oldid=1000
21:42:04 <flo> my initial wording was very poor
21:42:09 <FishFace> I would say that the pictures are probably the most important thing. They make the point.
21:42:30 <flo> but the idea is that we avoid forcing the user to re-learn things that are already known
21:42:44 <skeledrew> FishFace: true
21:43:01 <FishFace> Looks ok to me :)
21:43:28 <flo> "the entire application really starts to resemble Firefox. This vibe continues into the preferences and settings dialogue which is identical in layout to that of current Firefox releases. It’s almost slightly surreal to see different tab headings and options tucked away in such a habitual place"
21:43:38 <flo> (quoted from http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/instant-bird-meets-pidgin-hybrid-chat.html)
21:45:15 <flo> skeledrew: do you get the point I was trying to make now? Any idea of a better wording?
21:45:40 * skeledrew is thinking...
21:49:40 <skeledrew> k
21:50:31 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are even /identical/"
21:50:58 <skeledrew> gotta work on that second sentence. it just doesn't gel for me
21:51:11 <skeledrew> i'll get something eventually
21:51:32 * flo would like to go to bed ;)
21:51:40 <skeledrew> lol
21:52:41 <skeledrew> "There are some also preferences that are very specific to Instantbird"
21:52:47 <flo> I guess for the long term future I'll have to find someone responsible for writing and posting stuff regularly, or just accept that I sometimes post nonsense :)
21:52:50 <skeledrew> *also some
21:53:02 <skeledrew> true
21:53:15 <skeledrew> you find i writer
21:53:22 <skeledrew> i can be an editor :)
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21:54:42 <skeledrew> review "/And/ there are some also preferences that are very specific to Instantbird"
21:54:57 <skeledrew> *also some
21:55:06 <Mic> Hi
21:55:13 <skeledrew> Mic: hey
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21:56:55 <flo> what about: Some of the options are even the same... <screenshot> ... but some are very specific to Instantbird: <screenshot> ?
21:57:22 <skeledrew> that could work
21:57:31 <-- GeekShad0w has quit (Ping timeout)
21:57:40 <flo> less words :)
21:58:29 <skeledrew> sentence 2: "We made a presentation of the options to get you started:"
21:58:43 <skeledrew> i think i just understand that sentence
21:58:55 <skeledrew> yeah
21:59:33 <skeledrew> and "presentation" still doesn't seem like the right word for some reason...
21:59:56 <flo> layout ?
22:00:16 <skeledrew> ... just as how "identical" threw me off completely
22:00:40 <skeledrew> flo: hmm. nah
22:01:00 <flo> oh well
22:01:07 <skeledrew> lol
22:01:27 <flo> the overall look is the same, you will feel at home, see: <screenshot>
22:01:29 <flo> :-P
22:01:31 <skeledrew> presentation does kinda give the idea, but it's not really used
22:01:51 <skeledrew> hmm
22:01:57 <skeledrew> that's closer
22:02:49 <skeledrew> more natural for a native English speaker ;)
22:04:25 <skeledrew> "The overall look [i'm tempted to say interface or interaction] is the same, as shown here:"
22:05:25 <skeledrew> or "as shown in these screenshots/pictures/whatever:"
22:05:29 <flo> The overall appearance is the same. You will feel at home. But enough words, let's show you some pictures:
22:07:22 <skeledrew> "The overall appearance is the same, making you feel at home. These pictures attest to that:"
22:07:54 <skeledrew> (better replace the word "attest" with a synonym...
22:08:10 <flo> "See for yourself:" ?
22:08:29 <skeledrew> kk fine
22:08:35 <skeledrew> :)
22:09:02 <flo> that phrase always makes me think of Microsoft ads.
22:09:19 <skeledrew> wanted to make it professional sounding, but there are persons who may get loast...
22:09:25 <flo> s/ads/disinformation campaigns/
22:09:53 <skeledrew> i really don't want to associate IB with M$
22:10:18 <flo> :)
22:10:21 <skeledrew> i doubt any self respecting open source advocate would :)
22:11:09 <skeledrew> ***may get lost
22:12:30 <skeledrew> "... /and/ some are very specific to Instantbird:"
22:12:55 <skeledrew> shows continuity :)
22:14:45 <Mic> pff
22:14:57 <skeledrew> lol
22:15:16 <Mic> Man, this M$ thing is so ridiculous
22:15:24 <-- GeekSh4dow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
22:15:41 <skeledrew> Mic: it's war
22:15:54 <Mic> I suggest saying "Mickey$0ft" for maximum ridiculosity :P
22:16:15 <skeledrew> lmao
22:16:38 * flo needs an acronym checker for lmao
22:16:55 <Mic> :)
22:16:59 <skeledrew> Mic: noone has to adopt my personal view :P
22:17:24 <Mic> We can add a Urban Dictionary search enginge :)
22:17:29 <skeledrew> flo: next release :)
22:17:49 <flo> by the way, using double click for reply to nick sucks too
22:18:05 <skeledrew> flo: not as bad as single
22:18:05 <flo> each time I want to select a word to google it... it puts the nick in the textbox
22:18:41 <skeledrew> you double click to select words?
22:18:45 <skeledrew> k...
22:18:48 <flo> yes
22:19:14 <flo> and I triple click for a sentence
22:19:31 <flo> that makes the target as big as possible when moving the cursor
22:19:40 <skeledrew> k
22:20:06 <skeledrew> you want to change it to a quad click? :P
22:20:46 <flo> could be a middle click for people who have a middle button
22:20:55 <flo> and a single click out of the text
22:21:06 <flo> wouldn't work well for the simple theme though :-/
22:21:25 <flo> bah, the nick and date would still be clickable
22:21:37 <skeledrew> flo: what i always thought of is a dblclick on the name...
22:21:49 <flo> I just remove the "To help you out..." sentence
22:22:15 <flo> the name is a small target compared to the whole bubble ;)
22:22:30 <skeledrew> user pref :)
22:22:42 <flo> well... maybe
22:23:20 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are the same..."
22:23:41 <skeledrew> "... /and/ some are very specific to Instantbird:"
22:23:41 <flo> ok: single click outside of the text, double click on the nick/time, quad click on the text.
22:23:47 <flo> any idea to make it even more confusing? :-D
22:24:02 <skeledrew> flo: not yet. working on it
22:24:08 <flo> ahah
22:25:07 <skeledrew> i thought it was "haha". "ahah" sounds kinda weird
22:25:19 <flo> could also be single click on the nick, and show a hand cursor (like for links) when hovered
22:25:32 <skeledrew> like some backward smiley's i'veen from some of my friends
22:25:38 <flo> I guess that makes me weird then :)
22:25:54 <skeledrew> *i've seen
22:25:59 <skeledrew> lol
22:26:01 <flo> or French
22:26:13 <skeledrew> i define weird
22:26:15 <flo> if that makes any difference
22:26:17 <skeledrew> :P
22:26:19 <Mic> Insert it on hover?
22:26:38 <flo> Mic: and remove it on mouse out! :)
22:26:39 <skeledrew> hyperlink the nick
22:26:43 <Mic> Exactly
22:26:54 <skeledrew> huh?
22:26:55 <flo> type your message, hover the recipient, press enter
22:27:04 <flo> "oh, you moved the mouse? You lose! :-P"
22:27:08 <skeledrew> and for multiples?
22:27:21 <flo> you've already lost then :)
22:27:27 <skeledrew> lol
22:28:11 <skeledrew> i say hyperlink the nicks
22:28:14 <flo> "Some of the options are even the same, and some are very specific to Instantbird."
22:28:27 <flo> does this look like a logical sentence?
22:28:38 <flo> with "but" it was logical
22:28:43 <skeledrew> nope. scratch the "even"
22:28:50 <flo> (I know using "but" feels negative)
22:28:57 <skeledrew> very
22:29:38 <skeledrew> the "even" doesn't even work with the "but"
22:29:55 <flo> I can't believe we have been bikesheding these stupid 3 lines of text for so long
22:30:17 <flo> "The overall appearance is the same." "Some of the options are even the same"
22:30:20 <flo> that seems to work
22:31:33 <Mic> Need some input?
22:31:33 <skeledrew> i can go for longer :P
22:31:55 <flo> Mic: we are finishing http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-prefwindow.html
22:33:17 <skeledrew> oh. i missed something
22:33:58 <Mic> ... while others are specific to Instantbird:
22:34:05 <skeledrew> "Some of the options are /also/ the same..."
22:34:20 <skeledrew> Mic: WINNER!
22:37:44 <flo> ok! :)
22:37:54 <flo> let's publish it
22:38:46 <skeledrew> :)
22:39:30 <flo> man, I made a typo on "familiar" (wrote "familar") and nobody noticed :(
22:39:49 <skeledrew> flo: i did
22:40:07 <skeledrew> corrected it too
22:40:43 <flo> skeledrew: the findbar respectfully disagrees
22:42:03 <skeledrew> oh dear. i thought i did...
22:42:10 <skeledrew> hmm
22:42:14 <skeledrew> find bar...
22:42:28 <skeledrew> i actually went scrolling manually
22:42:36 <flo> :)
22:42:55 <skeledrew> i'm just not used to it
22:43:11 <skeledrew> and worse there's no ref to it in any menu
22:43:16 <flo> it's impossible to search for something in a conversation without it once you are used to it ;)
22:43:25 <skeledrew> k
22:43:45 <skeledrew> it needs an entry in the context menu though
22:44:01 <flo> I don't think so
22:44:04 <flo> it's not contextual
22:44:24 <flo> it needs something somewhere, but I don't know how we can put it without wasting space
22:44:28 <skeledrew> the convo window context
22:44:33 <flo> a menu item would be good on Mac
22:44:41 <flo> but on Windows/linux it wastes space to add a menu bar
22:44:45 <skeledrew> btw, are there any plans to put a menubar in the convo window?
22:45:01 <skeledrew> user pref :)
22:45:20 <skeledrew> or autohide like FF full screen
22:45:31 <flo> user pref = we weren't clever enough to reach a stable decision ;)
22:45:52 <skeledrew> lol
22:45:55 <skeledrew> no
22:46:03 <skeledrew> user pref is user pref for me
22:46:26 <skeledrew> depending on the desktop, i'll want it off or on
22:46:32 <flo> real users have no preference related to details such as "menu bar or not menu bar"
22:46:51 <skeledrew> ok
22:46:57 <skeledrew> how about autohide
22:47:00 <skeledrew> ?
22:47:18 <Mic> Switches and preferences are very open source-ish though
22:47:18 <flo> the interesting thing when arguing about adding a pref is that once we agree on it, the battle starts over when it's time to decide the default value :)
22:47:50 <Mic> What's a good way for extensions to store information?
22:48:10 <flo> preferences are fine :)
22:48:11 <Mic> like replacement rules for the next generation "link bugzilla"
22:48:21 <Mic> I know you told clokep that
22:48:36 <Mic> I'm just not sure if it is a good solution
22:48:36 <skeledrew> flo: fact is, there're people who love their mouses (mice?), and many don't even use the right click...
22:48:49 <flo> If I was the one coding it, I'd just JSONify the whole thing and put it in a string pref
22:48:52 <skeledrew> Mic: i got the same answer
22:49:45 <skeledrew> flo: are we talking about about:config again?
22:49:50 <flo> skeledrew: "many don't even use the right click" so now you are saying that putting it in the context menu wouldn't work, right? :)
22:50:26 <skeledrew> flo: i'm saying support both menu bar and context menu :P
22:50:34 <flo> skeledrew: not yet :). Once people agree on the default value, they need to agree about exposing it in the preference dialog or not. :)
22:51:18 <flo> the menu bar thing will probably be inevitable for "send a file" and other crappy actions like that
22:51:19 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
22:51:20 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n20-preferences-dialog.html - Preferences dialog
22:51:49 <skeledrew> flo: CRAPPY???
22:52:02 <skeledrew> that's a staple function...
22:52:24 <flo> opening a file picker to select a file, thus hiding the conversation for a while is crappy
22:52:35 <Mic> ah, not again :S
22:52:43 <skeledrew> it's been a nightmare having to tell majority of my friends that my IM doesn't support file xfer
22:52:49 <flo> if you start the transfer by dropping the file, you don't need the menuitem
22:53:36 <skeledrew> flo: that's why i have autoaccept for some of my friends
22:54:05 <flo> yeah, when we do implement file transfer, we need to think about ways to reduce the dialogs poping up for nothing
22:54:24 <skeledrew> the file transfer management dialog needs to be a tab too
22:55:30 <skeledrew> it was pretty nagging typing something only to look up and see a file transfer dialog blocked 90% of what i typed
22:55:46 <flo> :-P
22:55:48 <skeledrew> and it happened pretty often
22:55:59 <flo> it's even worse if typing discards or accept the dialog ;)
22:56:11 <Mic> or even better: space, enter, or some letter actually doing something on the dialog
22:56:12 <skeledrew> yeah
22:56:19 <Mic> :D
22:56:35 * flo thinks all modal dialogs should be eliminated
22:56:45 <skeledrew> same applies for the add buddy notification
22:56:56 * skeledrew thinks so too
22:56:56 <Mic> It doesn't have to be modal to steal the focus ;)
22:57:07 <skeledrew> hmm
22:57:14 <flo> I decided a while ago that we won't ever implement the purple_request and purple_notify APIs like they are expected to work.
22:57:20 <skeledrew> i think an info bar is in order...
22:58:22 <skeledrew> same that you get when FF blocks a site or something
22:58:29 <flo> skeledrew: the way you phrased it includes the solution ;). "add buddy *notification*". It's really a notification that you can make a decision about something, not at all a requirement for taking an action.
22:58:56 <skeledrew> :)
22:59:39 <flo> the add buddy dialogs are probably the worst part of application currently
22:59:51 <flo> well, the proxy settings dialog is very poor too.
22:59:53 <skeledrew> come to think of it, the info bar could be used for many things...
22:59:57 <Mic> ahem .. there is still the log viewer 
23:00:09 <skeledrew> Mic: toss it in a tab too
23:00:29 <flo> what about removing it completely?
23:00:31 <skeledrew> though there's no case where it can interrupt your typing...
23:00:37 <Mic> I already tried and gave up because it sucks opening a tab without an attached conversation
23:00:49 <flo> we need to fix that.
23:00:58 <flo> iirc you filed a bug about it :)
23:01:04 <Mic> Yes
23:01:16 <skeledrew> flo: :-s
23:01:17 <Mic> but mostly because we wanted emails for Instantbot ;)
23:01:24 <skeledrew> what's iirc?
23:01:24 <flo> the first thing I'd try to put in a tab is the buddy list :)
23:01:40 <skeledrew> flo: yeah
23:01:43 <Mic> I think it could be nice to use all the space that's there
23:02:22 <skeledrew> tabs always oh so rock
23:02:46 <flo> skeledrew: on OSes that can't manage windows properly ;)
23:03:46 <Mic> reminds me that I have to use Linux everyday :P
23:03:55 <Mic> scnr
23:03:59 <flo> by the way, I wasn't completely joking about removing the log viewer.
23:04:12 <skeledrew> what'd make them rock even more is a plethora of shortcut keys to access them specifically
23:04:13 <Mic> Remoing or replacing?
23:04:38 <flo> the difference between "a conversation where messages sent while offline arrive" and "a conversation that happened in the past" are 2 very similar things
23:05:11 <skeledrew> Mic: more like revamping IMO
23:05:15 <flo> if we start to display the last few messages of the previous conversation when opening a new conversation, the difference between the regular conversation tab and the log viewer will blur even more
23:05:27 <Mic> With a good search and maybe some other things like "bookmarking sections" of conversations I could well imagine ...
23:05:43 <Mic> ... having the old conversation in the conversation area as well
23:05:45 <flo> yeah, we need to investigate that
23:06:14 <flo> first thing to develop is having a way to add messages at the top of a conversation (currently the message theme system only allows appending messages)
23:06:33 <flo> and we need infinite scrolling :) (add messages at the top when the user scrolls up)
23:06:52 <skeledrew> flo: editing the HTML DOM itself?
23:08:49 <flo> if we manage to do that correctly, I'm sure lots of people will discover that logs exist :)
23:08:50 <skeledrew> i like the Digsby log viewer. they have a nifty calendar control to choose your day, and comboboxes for the accounts and users
23:09:18 <skeledrew> yeah
23:09:51 <flo> even when present in the menu bar and context menu, the log viewers are often ignored
23:10:11 <skeledrew> it also has a pref to automatically insert the last <#> of convo lines as history
23:10:33 <Mic> flo: right
23:10:50 <Mic> I look up things on skype quite often
23:10:52 <skeledrew> flo: not by power users
23:11:22 <Mic> Skype has a bar on top of conversations: show last day, yesterday, last week,  last month, all 
23:11:22 <flo> if it works well, power users will love the feature anyway ;)
23:11:32 <Mic> or something like this and displays it inline
23:12:08 <skeledrew> flo: there're more regular users to power users overall
23:12:44 <flo> :)
23:13:11 <skeledrew> make the history view a default so noone can ignore it :)
23:13:26 <flo> yes
23:13:27 <skeledrew> maybe 5 lines or so
23:13:30 <flo> except in private mode
23:13:41 <skeledrew> yeah
23:13:54 <skeledrew> i don't really support it though
23:14:01 <flo> private mode?
23:14:05 <skeledrew> what's private mode for exactly?
23:14:30 <flo> for using a computer that you don't control without having to worry about traces that could be left on the hard disk
23:14:49 <skeledrew> hmm
23:14:50 <flo> like in a public library for example
23:14:51 <skeledrew> k
23:15:00 <Mic> flo: can logging be changed on a per conversation basis?
23:15:08 <skeledrew> that's one thing i avoid
23:15:10 <Mic> theoretically?
23:15:22 <flo> in the future it will be
23:15:34 <skeledrew> using a public system's IM client
23:15:48 <flo> I would not do it either
23:15:53 <skeledrew> flo: it's not now?
23:15:54 <flo> but I'm not really the average IM user
23:15:55 <skeledrew> :(
23:16:25 <skeledrew> flo: none of us are
23:16:26 <flo> skeledrew: is "now" the 0.2 version or the js-proto branch?
23:16:43 <skeledrew> my version
23:16:47 <skeledrew> 0.2
23:17:03 <flo> in 0.2 the logs are created by libpurple, that does it's stuff
23:17:08 <flo> *its
23:17:18 <skeledrew> oh
23:17:28 <skeledrew> it's a libpurple thing
23:17:46 <skeledrew> Pidgin allows per user logging
23:17:54 <flo> in the js-proto branch, the logs are exactly the same, but created by a JS XPCOM component, where we will be able to add hooks for add-on authors :)
23:18:29 <flo> per user or per conversation?
23:18:42 <skeledrew> buddy
23:18:42 <flo> is the setting saved in any way?
23:18:52 <Mic> how extensive are the patches on libpurple by now?
23:18:56 <skeledrew> flo: XML files
23:19:08 <flo> massive removals
23:19:12 <Mic> I think removing the logger killed hundreds of lines
23:19:24 <flo> thousands
23:19:39 <Mic> fine with me ;)
23:20:14 <flo> libpurple's log.c file is about 2000 lines long
23:21:56 <flo> but I don't count file removals as "patches" :)
23:22:15 <flo> my libpurple upgrade script just removes them before creating the diffs :)
23:22:18 <skeledrew> all we need is an interface to read/write the logs. we'll addonify the rest :)
23:23:14 <flo> :)
23:25:00 <Mic> good night now
23:25:05 <flo> good idea :)
23:25:08 <flo> good night :)
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23:26:30 <skeledrew> k
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