#instantbird log on 06 28 2010

All times are UTC.

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02:23:51 <clokep_> skeledrew: ping
02:24:18 <skeledrew> ?
02:24:36 <clokep_> How's it going?
02:24:45 <clokep_> Wanted to ask what you thought of something...
02:24:51 <skeledrew> k
02:25:03 <clokep_> http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/Content%20Pane%202a.png and http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/Content%20Pane%202b.png
02:25:09 <clokep_> I refined my Content Pane idea a bit more.
02:27:26 <skeledrew> nice
02:28:01 <skeledrew> what exactly am i looking at? a mini browser?
02:28:11 <clokep_> Sorry, I went to brush my teeth. :)
02:28:23 <skeledrew> k
02:28:34 <clokep_> Well information would be pulled out of the conversation (the mock up is showing mostly links...)
02:29:13 <clokep_> So when I posted the links to those images above they would be pulled out, and shown in the pane on the right, with some other information (title, size, dimensions, etc.)
02:29:23 <clokep_> Links it could pull meta data on and show on the side as well.
02:29:42 <skeledrew> k
02:30:03 <skeledrew> personally i'd prefer it in a tab though
02:30:05 <clokep_> Although it could also be done in-line I suppose...hm...
02:30:11 <skeledrew> that option'd be nice
02:30:18 <clokep_> You mean a separate tab that put all the conversations together?
02:30:42 <skeledrew> no. a content tab
02:31:01 <clokep_> Sorry, a separate tab that puts all the /content/ from all the conversations together? :)
02:31:15 <skeledrew> i'm kinda REALLY strapped for monitor space
02:31:24 <clokep_> Haha, what size?
02:31:24 <skeledrew> something like that
02:31:32 <clokep_> Ideally it would be collapsible, I didn't draw that in.
02:31:50 <skeledrew> i just want to keep the overall space taken as small as possible
02:33:42 <skeledrew> using a 17" at 1280x1024 doesn't give much space to splurge
02:34:02 <skeledrew> btw, how'd you do the mockup?
02:34:37 <clokep_> I'm on a 14" 1400 x 1050. ;)
02:34:47 <clokep_> A program called "mockery" using the trial right now...
02:34:58 <skeledrew> k
02:35:05 <skeledrew> netbook?
02:35:08 <clokep_> (And a second monitor that's 17" 1280 x 1024...I guess tha tmakes a big different.)
02:35:11 <skeledrew> yikes
02:35:11 <clokep_> No, its a laptop.
02:35:23 <skeledrew> k
02:35:47 <skeledrew> but still, you gotta scroll the screen right?
02:37:06 <clokep_>  Scroll for what, sorry?
02:37:58 <skeledrew> that 14" screen
02:38:08 <clokep_> I scroll for websites...
02:38:13 <skeledrew> unless you have microscopic vision...
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02:41:23 <clokep_> Haha. True.
02:41:36 <clokep_> Tab: http://www.rpi.edu/~clokep/ib/Content%20Tab.png
02:42:00 <skeledrew> clokep_: does anything look off in these snippets?
02:42:00 <skeledrew> <key id="nav_up" key="VK_UP" modifiers="ctrl" command="hist_up" />
02:42:00 <skeledrew> <command id="hist_up" oncommand="MsgHistory.goUp()" />
02:42:00 <skeledrew> goUp: function() { ...
02:42:22 <clokep_> For future: http://pastebin.com/
02:42:47 <clokep_> It looks OK, but honestly I don't think I've ever written a key command
02:42:55 <skeledrew> oh sorry
02:43:01 <skeledrew> k
02:43:08 <clokep_> No its fine, just lets you do syntax highlighting and such. :)
02:43:28 <skeledrew> oh. k
02:43:38 <skeledrew> i do miss that in the lxr
02:43:57 <skeledrew> i don't see anything wrong the code, but mine are the eyes of a rookie...
02:43:57 <clokep_> I'm kind of liking the Tab idea I have to say...it lets you keep the same size Window instead of making it a really awkward long size...
02:44:18 <clokep_> Wait.
02:44:23 <clokep_> Can you paste th ewhole snipped into pastebin?
02:44:27 <clokep_> I want to see the whole function.
02:47:03 <skeledrew> http://pastebin.com/Z7ZMPXUk
02:47:06 <skeledrew> i think
02:47:32 <clokep_> I meant the whole XML snipped actually sorry, with the key and command
02:48:08 <skeledrew> oh
02:49:01 <skeledrew> http://pastebin.com/iAvmEPpS
02:50:52 <clokep_> Its "control" not "ctrl"
02:50:56 <clokep_> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/key
02:52:44 <skeledrew> wow
02:52:47 <skeledrew> man
02:52:54 <skeledrew> how'd i miss that?
02:52:56 <skeledrew> hmm
02:53:06 <clokep_> Haha, sometimes you just need someone else to look. :)
02:53:18 <skeledrew> true
02:54:57 <clokep_> It works then? ;)
02:56:02 <skeledrew> no
02:56:59 <clokep_> Oh. :(
03:00:07 <skeledrew> i guess i really better hold off that one
03:03:17 <clokep_> Are there errors being thrown?
03:03:24 <skeledrew> no
03:12:28 <clokep_> Bed time for me.
03:12:34 <clokep_> Good luck!
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06:26:16 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
06:27:54 <flo> good morning :)
06:30:01 <flo> skeledrew: have you got your command/key elements working?
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06:42:03 <Mic> hi
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08:00:57 <skeledrew> flo: morning.
08:00:58 <skeledrew> not yet. i'm not even sure where it's broken. there aren't any errors, and the JS loads. but there's no response at all when i input the command
08:06:26 <flo> maybe the event is already "consumed" by the textbox?
08:08:53 <skeledrew> meaning?
08:09:31 <flo> you would have to put an event listener on the textbox to do something with keyboard events in the textbox
08:10:18 <skeledrew> that's what my first version does
08:10:38 <skeledrew> it listens for the "keypress" event
08:11:33 <skeledrew> and then i saw it was easier to do it partly in the XUL
08:12:13 <skeledrew> there must be something i'm missing
08:12:36 <skeledrew> btw, you saw the posts re the logging issue right?
08:13:02 <skeledrew> i still haven't received that bugzilla email up to this time...
08:13:24 <flo> that seemed similar to what I have in my todo list as "add a line in conversations when 2 consecutive messages are not the same day"
08:14:43 <skeledrew> i guess a quick hack would just write the log file header at the point were the date changes
08:15:03 <flo> I think we want it displayed in conversations too
08:15:24 <flo> a system message saying "We are now Monday, June the 28th."
08:15:51 <skeledrew> it could be in the form of a status message too i guess
08:15:57 <skeledrew> yes
08:16:26 <flo> maybe add the year if you believe you could have 366 days without power outage :-P
08:16:51 <skeledrew> another thing. the system messages are really polluting the file. i didn't know they were logged too
08:17:03 <skeledrew> lol
08:17:08 <skeledrew> that's crazy
08:17:17 <flo> by the way, let's be clear. I'm not going to patch this code in anyway.
08:17:24 <flo> (the logging code of Instantbird 0.2)
08:17:27 <skeledrew> but, i guess you could for brevity
08:17:32 <flo> it's already completely removed in the js-proto branch.
08:17:43 <skeledrew> ok
08:17:46 <flo> reimplemented as a JS XPCOM component
08:18:13 <flo> will be easier to patch I guess ;)
08:18:20 <skeledrew> k
08:18:22 <flo> and even to reimplement completely in add-ons
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12:46:01 <Mic> flo: I'd like to add the Link Bugzilla addon to the addons repository
12:46:05 <Mic> Do you want a patch?
12:46:16 <flo> that would be great :)
12:46:52 <Mic> It includes a patch to the makefile to support .. something
12:46:59 <flo> the icons I think
12:47:04 <Mic> I need to look up what it was exactly ;)
12:52:52 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/261
12:52:53 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/262
12:53:03 <Mic> That's the patches I created some time ago
12:53:52 <Mic> Since nothing has been changed on rules.mk and install.rdf, it should still be valid
12:54:20 <Mic> linkbugzilla.patch contains completely new files, so it should be fine as well (if I'm not mistaken)
12:56:14 <Mic> bbl
12:56:26 <flo> I'm not sure the change in install.rdf.in is needed
12:56:56 <flo> using INCLUDE_ICON += $(blank)       <em:iconURL>$(ICON_URL)</em:iconURL> would probably work too
12:57:08 <flo> hmm, a \n may be missing :-/
12:57:31 <Mic> to add \n was a problem iirc
12:57:41 <Mic> iirc you can't add them to variables
12:57:47 <Mic> bbl now
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13:06:40 <clokep_work> So can I patch his patch and add multiple regular expressions linking to different sites? ;)
13:08:06 <flo> want to detect which conversation it's in?
13:08:21 <flo> it would be helpful to have it link to a different bugzilla in #instantbird and #developers
13:08:35 <clokep_work> Exactly. :)
13:08:44 <flo> cool :)
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13:25:37 <skeledrew> what's the method to unpackage an addon that you're porting (i'm using the pointer file method to install in IB) and not have to change the contents of any of the files?
13:26:23 <clokep_work> I usually pull it from the extensions repository and start changing files.
13:26:39 <skeledrew> ?
13:26:43 <clokep_work> So I can see my changes (via diffs), and you're not limited by making a "fatal" error that way.
13:28:13 <skeledrew> i downloaded the XPI and uncompressed it. want to have it running that way like my other addons, but without making any unnecessary changes
13:29:10 <clokep_work> Edit the install.rdf and chrome.manifest and hope it works. :) I'm not sure what you mean besides that if that's not your question?
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13:30:10 <skeledrew> that's what i wanted to avoid
13:30:33 <skeledrew> already changed the install.rdf
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13:30:43 <clokep_work> But you have to edit part of it to make it compatible.
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13:31:05 <clokep_work> I mean you could do it all via patches so if a new version comes out you just sync to the new version and reapply your patches (which is why I pull from a repo usually).
13:31:05 <skeledrew> but don't want to touch the chrome.manifest, or the dir structure
13:31:25 <skeledrew> patches?
13:31:36 <skeledrew> how?
13:32:02 <clokep_work> Do you know how to use Mercurial or Subversion (Or git, but I hate git. :P)
13:32:11 <clokep_work> Which extension are you trying to port?
13:32:15 <skeledrew> uhh...
13:32:17 <skeledrew> no
13:32:32 <skeledrew> webmail notifier
13:32:37 <flo> clokep_work: "I hate git." this seems like something we could teach to instantbot.
13:32:55 <skeledrew> flo: lol
13:32:57 <clokep_work> Haha, not a fan either? :)
13:33:04 <flo> I prefer hg
13:33:27 <clokep_work> Those are system for tracking changes to code, so you work on your code without worrying abotu destroying your work. Whenever you reach a "checkpoint" you "commit" your changes to repository and they're stored.
13:33:49 <clokep_work> flo: I always preferred SVN, but recently I've been using hg and I think I like it a bit more. Git just...has weird things that happen w/ it.
13:33:58 <flo> by the way, monotone (mtn, the ... used for version control of pidgin/libpurple sources) could have its place in instantbot's favorite technologies too :-D
13:34:23 <clokep_work> What else is in there besides C++?
13:34:34 <flo> I think C++ is single
13:34:35 * instantbot mumbles something about c++ being evil
13:34:44 <clokep_work> I've never used Monotone.
13:35:07 <skeledrew> it's installed, but the options window doesn't have a content area. just title bar with icon and close button
13:35:10 <skeledrew> lol
13:35:11 <flo> I used it a couple times, then I gave up.
13:35:14 <skeledrew> that bot's a riot
13:36:04 <skeledrew> which is the lightest/easiest to use?
13:36:09 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Do you have a link to it?
13:36:20 <skeledrew> really strapped for disk space...
13:36:29 <clokep_work> You're on Windows (I think?) so you should use TortoiseSVN or TortoiseHg ideally.
13:36:30 <skeledrew> wmn?
13:36:42 <clokep_work> Hmm...yeah I don't know about then then. :-\ Not sure how big they are.
13:36:43 <skeledrew> sounds slooow...
13:36:57 <clokep_work> Tortoise is from "shell" not from being slow. :)
13:37:13 <skeledrew> k
13:37:15 <skeledrew> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4490/
13:37:51 <skeledrew> i think i need to make an overlay for IB
13:38:13 <clokep_work> Probably, it might just be a matter of changing a couple of IDs.
13:38:24 <skeledrew> i think i'll try inserting it in the status bar
13:38:32 <skeledrew> k
13:38:51 <clokep_work> Pretty neat site.
13:39:07 <skeledrew> but there're specific overlays for FF and TB
13:39:25 <clokep_work> flo: I had a thought the other day...to minimize the number of pop ups from Instantbird, coudl the account manager be tabbed "behind" the buddy list?
13:39:41 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Right, so choose one of those and copy it and make one for Instantbird. :)
13:39:46 <skeledrew> clokep_work: +1 to that
13:44:07 <flo> clokep_work: I'd rather fix whatever use case for the account manager you have, so that you don't need to open it except when you want to add an account or change the configuration of an account (with is probably very rare)
13:45:00 <clokep_work> flo: My issue right now is that I have trouble connection to irc.mozilla.org so I'll occasionally open it to "force" a reconnect. Which usually doesn't work, but oh well. :(
13:45:38 <skeledrew> maybe a reconnect option in the tab context?
13:45:50 <skeledrew> i was thinking of that issue
13:46:20 <clokep_work> Or if someone knows an HTTP-to-IRC proxy that might work as well. ;) Although proxy settings in Instantbird are funky.
13:46:55 <skeledrew> hmm. how's file transfer support coming along anyway?
13:47:20 <clokep_work> skeledrew: A lot of that I would imagine depends on libpurple's support, which is kind of crappy.
13:47:42 <flo> yeah, we could do something above libpurple, but the result would be very disappointing
13:47:58 <skeledrew> yeah. i always did have issues with Pidgin's file transfer
13:48:08 <skeledrew> k
13:48:35 <flo> I know some people keep pressuring me to add it anyway because it's "better than nothing", but I'm very reluctant to adding features that I know are broken.
13:49:30 <clokep_work> flo: I know some of my friends will try to send me stuff (and I get the status message about it), but it doesn't seem to "reject" them, it just leaves them hanging "waiting" for me. Could Instantbird at least reject the transfer?
13:49:51 <flo> that would be doable
13:49:54 <skeledrew> yeah
13:49:54 <clokep_work> And they all hate when I say "I can't accept file transfers, email me." :P But I rarely use file transfer, its a sketchy way to send files.
13:50:01 <skeledrew> happened to me earlier
13:50:09 <flo> would your friend really prefer that?
13:50:18 <skeledrew> the person thought i was ignoring it
13:50:36 <clokep_work> skeledrew +1 same for me.
13:50:46 <flo> I hated file transfer through IM because I never knew what to do of the file
13:50:55 <skeledrew> maybe an auto response message for the person...
13:50:59 <flo> poping up a dialog to request a location to save it is plain stupid
13:51:04 <flo> you can't know until you have the file...
13:51:16 <clokep_work> True...
13:51:33 <clokep_work> Most "new" OSes have a default "Download" location though, don't they?
13:51:40 <flo> yeah
13:52:02 <flo> I think we could implement it with a window very similar to the firefox download manager
13:52:19 <flo> well, for the UI
13:52:24 <skeledrew> Digsby gives the preference to have a dir struct similar to logs for files, but you choose the head dir
13:52:37 <flo> that doesn't solve the mess of opening a direct connexion between 2 people who are both behind a firewall/proxy
13:52:54 <skeledrew> k..
13:53:00 <clokep_work> Which unfortunately is more of the protocol's fault then Instantbirds, but that's not how users see it.
13:53:16 <flo> it's something that can't really work
13:53:23 <flo> there needs to be a proxy server somewhere
13:54:09 <skeledrew> how IB's own mini server? or something
13:54:20 <skeledrew> it has to be doable somehow
13:54:32 <flo> wanna pay the bandwidth?
13:54:38 <skeledrew> lol
13:54:41 <skeledrew> no thanks
13:54:45 <clokep_work> skeledrew: That'd be a lot of traffic though, no way to limit it, etc. Plus I would imagine there's legal ramifications of transferring files...
13:54:56 <skeledrew> k
13:55:15 <flo> I think using alternative solutions like imageshark or (less ads cluttered equivalents of) rapidshare could work in most cases
13:55:56 <flo> but that's only for sending files, not receiving them
13:56:16 <skeledrew> so what does Win Live xfer have that libpurple doesn't? never had an issue receiving from them
13:56:42 <clokep_work> It has the transfer protocol correctly written. ;)
13:56:53 <skeledrew> hmm
13:57:00 <skeledrew> so rip the specs
13:57:03 <flo> it has some NAT traversal code
13:57:07 <clokep_work> I think the MSN protocol file transfer goes through a server actually, I know the AIM one in particular is really bad about file transfers.
13:57:20 <flo> using uPnP and that kinds of stuff
13:57:23 <clokep_work> (Even the native client I mean.)
13:57:43 <skeledrew> !
13:57:48 <skeledrew> you know what
13:57:54 <flo> clokep_work: the native client fallbacks to a server (very slow, about 4kBps, that's what libpurple uses) when the direct connection fails
13:57:57 <skeledrew> just make a VPN...
13:58:31 <clokep_work> Doesn't that still need to tunnel through firewalls/proxy's and could fail depending where people are?
13:58:40 <clokep_work> (I don't know much about VPNs besides being an end-user. :))
13:59:03 <flo> the 4kBps alternative? It works even with proxies/firewalls, but it's so slow...
13:59:15 <skeledrew> i'd use Hamachi as a case study
13:59:26 <skeledrew> it's zero config
13:59:50 <clokep_work> flo: Sorry, I meant the VPN.
14:00:13 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Sounds like something to be done on a branch or as an extension. ;)
14:02:31 <skeledrew> i also have an open source file transfer app. but 1 - it's a client/server setup, so someone has to punch a hole in their firewall, etc. and 2 - it removes any anonymity (not that i really mind; i only xfer with trusted people)
14:03:09 <skeledrew> it is pretty fast though
14:03:17 <flo> by the way, people who transfer files usually don't notice that their IP address is visible
14:03:33 <skeledrew> via IM?
14:03:43 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:03:46 <flo> I think someone even said once here that it couldn't be visible because the UI doesn't display it :-D.
14:03:56 <skeledrew> wow
14:04:00 <clokep_work> Haha, nice. :) I think the Pidgin UI does though?
14:04:02 <skeledrew> that's actually news to me too
14:04:11 <clokep_work> It asks "Do you want to accept a file from xx.yy.zz.aa"
14:04:19 <skeledrew> no
14:04:25 <skeledrew> it uses their name
14:04:33 <clokep_work> :shrugs: Some program I used then did that...
14:04:37 <flo> clokep_work: I don't think you know the IP because accepting, but I may be mistaken
14:04:52 <flo> *before
14:04:55 <clokep_work> Ah, maybe not.
14:05:00 <skeledrew> i've never seen an IP in Pidgin...
14:05:11 <skeledrew> well, not that i really looked
14:07:23 <skeledrew> XUL viewing sucks. why does it have to attempt resolving the JS, DTD and CSS references?
14:07:37 <skeledrew> what a headache
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14:12:11 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Did you get those command keys working?
14:12:24 <skeledrew> still busted
14:12:58 <clokep_work> And actually the way flo was talking about doing it (capturing the keyevent) might be better, cause the history should only work when the input box has focus...
14:13:10 <skeledrew> i need a good example addon that uses command keys to call methods in the addon itself...
14:13:31 <skeledrew> k
14:13:36 <skeledrew> hmm
14:13:52 <skeledrew> could my object be wrong?
14:13:55 <clokep_work> Adding the listeners should be pretty simple and is set up in a similar way to other example add ons.
14:15:28 <skeledrew> the listener was successful, as i got the message i set it to display
14:16:51 <skeledrew> well that addon isn't very important right now. need to work on some of the other too. like the events notifier
14:17:11 <skeledrew> *others
14:19:38 <Mic> flo, clokep: If you want to implement something the bugzilla links depending on the channel, feel free. That's features on the wishlist already;) (cf AIO)
14:19:57 <flo> Mic: I know :)
14:20:04 <flo> open source, ... ;)
14:20:10 <Mic> The idea was to have a more general thing that could transform anything via a regexp match and a replacement
14:20:24 <flo> by the way, if you want to implement something on Instantbird, feel free.
14:20:25 <Mic> Depending "on the context"
14:20:38 <flo> scnr
14:20:40 <Mic> oh, maybe I'd like to do that one day ;)
14:21:17 <Mic> flo: is there something I need to change on the patch or was it ok?
14:21:20 <Mic> btw
14:21:41 <clokep_work> Mic: Yeah I figured, is there an "addons" component in Bugzilla to file bugs against though?
14:21:52 <Mic> I don't think so
14:21:56 <flo> well, I'd like to try something with the makefile, but I'm very likely to fail on it and just check-in the patch as it is ;)
14:22:08 <clokep_work> flo: I'm working on some commandline stuff. Looked over the code yesterday, but didn't have a chance to edit it yet.
14:22:47 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes I saw the wishlist. I at least want it to be able to separate bugs from #instantbird and #maildev :)
14:26:17 <clokep_work> Although general regex matching shouldn't be too hard, would just need to identify what needs to be done...UI for it would stink though. :(
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14:26:52 <flo> it's just a list
14:27:16 <clokep_work> No, its a few lists tied together, or a list of objects.
14:27:33 <clokep_work> regex1 --> link, with this title text, etc.; regex2 -->...
14:27:46 <flo> the account manager is just a list of account
14:27:47 <flo> s
14:28:00 <clokep_work> And if you want it to match certain servers, etc. it goes regex1 on server1 --> link, title, etc.
14:28:18 <flo> you need a list of linkifications. Each item has a regexp matching against some conversation names, a regexp matching the text inside the content, and the link template
14:28:26 <clokep_work> Right.
14:28:34 <clokep_work> I know its not that hard, I just dislike making UI. :P
14:28:40 <flo> you can display it as a tree with 3 columns
14:29:01 <Mic> clokep_work: there's some things I wanted to say about commands and the protocol handler stuff
14:29:08 <clokep_work> Right.
14:29:13 <clokep_work> Mic: yes?
14:29:27 <flo> a tree wouldn't be pretty, but it should be enough/work.
14:29:27 <clokep_work> flo: You meant a UI list, not an object list, didn't you? :)
14:30:21 <flo> if you want it to be pretty, you can use a richlistitem, and use the favicon of the baseuri of the url template to make it fancy
14:30:23 <Mic> What about a list that contains all items with a filter bar on it?
14:30:38 <clokep_work> Mic: Now you're being mean.
14:30:45 <Mic> :P
14:30:58 <clokep_work> flo: I think I'd just base it on the Thunderbird filters window.
14:31:03 <clokep_work> The order also matters.
14:31:24 <clokep_work> I made an extension a while ago based on filters...bad memories. :)
14:31:55 <Mic> The thing with protocol handlers: there's some active things like "sending a message" in the AIM protocol that would require to ask the user in my opinion (I dpn't want thing to send messages in my name automatically)
14:32:22 <flo> Mic: just open the conversation and fill in and focus the textbox
14:32:25 <Mic> So it would require a (localizable) description that could be displayed somehow
14:32:26 <clokep_work> Mic: flo and I already discussed that and decided nothing should be done automatically.
14:32:57 <clokep_work> Also, I don't think the AIM protocol does include something to send it automatically...I really think all the real client does is open the window...
14:33:11 <Mic> How do you decide which account to send from?
14:33:21 <Mic> First in account list most likely?
14:33:31 <clokep_work> Highest up on the account manager that matches the protocol and is logged in. ;)
14:33:44 <flo> and has the contact in the buddy list
14:34:27 <Mic> .. depending on the lunar phase..
14:34:27 <Mic> scnr
14:35:31 <clokep_work> flo: Is there an "editable" listbox?
14:35:35 <flo> !8ball should the first account in the list be used?
14:35:36 <instantbot> flo: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing!
14:37:16 <Mic> A listbox or an editable drop down box like on the "Add buddy..." dialog?
14:37:45 <Mic> (the latter would be the answer to the latter as well;)
14:37:46 <clokep_work> Mic: I'd like them in a listbox with the columns, double click to edit, buttons on the side that move up and down.
14:38:16 <clokep_work> Not sure that's possible though? Don't know every XUL element. :)
14:38:20 <Mic> XUL is extensible
14:38:27 <clokep_work> I know.
14:38:36 <Mic> Try renaming a buddy
14:38:42 <Mic> It that what you mean?
14:38:53 <clokep_work> I'm not on Instantbird right now. Sorry.
14:38:56 <Mic> (beside different double click behaviour, which could be changed)
14:39:10 <Mic> It replaces the buddy label with a textbox where you can enter a new name
14:39:23 <Mic> and accept by pressing enter (or losing focus?)
14:40:42 <clokep_work> Yes, that's what I mean.
14:40:55 <Mic> ok, "it can be done" then ;)
14:40:59 <Mic> Have a look at ...
14:42:08 <Mic> ..
14:43:46 <clokep_work> Might also be nice to have a "test" textbox...with the "rendered" content below it, but that's only for people that don't think in regex.
14:43:51 <Mic> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/buddy.xml#222
14:43:51 <Mic> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/blist.css#42
14:44:57 <Mic> I'm not sure how it works with multicolumn data but I guess the pointers will help anyways
14:45:07 * Morian has configured postfix, now instantbot should advertise all stuff related to bugzilla.
14:45:39 <Mic> Morian: "related to bugzilla" means?
14:45:53 <Mic> Like "any changes on bugs"?
14:46:08 <flo> Morian: hasn't it already advertised a change yesterday?
14:46:13 <Morian> like previously :)
14:46:40 <clokep_work> Mic: Well I'll worry about the backend first anyway, since it'll just be reading from a preference.
14:46:42 <Morian> it's nearly impossible :/, or this bot is not on my new server
14:47:59 <Mic> Don't treat the UI stepmotherly .. it might result in something that looks like Pidgin :P
14:48:35 <flo> that could be a nice quote, if only we had a quote database :-D
14:48:47 <clokep_work> Mic: Not stepmotherly, just saying that good UI isn't useful if the underlying preference that is changed doesn't do anything.
14:48:57 <clokep_work> flo: There is the Wiki...
14:48:58 <Mic> Morian: are you planning to add the /today/ thing to the log server?
14:49:20 <Mic> If yes I'll try to provide a /yesterday/ as well, even though it is going to be more complicated
14:49:50 <Mic> clokep_work: no offence meant
14:49:51 <Morian> ah, hu yes it's planed.
14:50:31 <Mic> ok, great .. even though I could use a bookmarklet, such a thing sounds like a cleaner solution
14:51:12 <clokep_work> clokep_work: I know, just saying that I have a plan. :)
14:51:14 <Mic> clokep_work: if you get the channel-based thing working I would be glad to try ..
14:51:32 <Mic> Having bugs in Mozilla channels linked to our bugtracker is annoying
14:51:55 <clokep_work> Mic: Maybe tonight, although that'd be tomorrow morning for you I guess.
14:52:34 <Mic> I tend to sleep at night, so this is fine with me :P
14:59:00 <Morian> Mic: fixed
14:59:01 <Morian> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today
14:59:05 <Morian> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/yesterday
14:59:16 <Mic> What did you use as yesterday?
14:59:26 <flo> Morian: GREAT! Thanks!
14:59:28 * flo bookmarks
14:59:30 <Mic> Can you use the variables in actual calcaculations?
14:59:51 <Mic> :)
15:00:10 <Morian> in fact I did a PHP bouncer that sets a variable and call the coloredlog.php
15:00:33 <Mic> ah, ok :)
15:00:55 <flo> so technically you could handle /instantbird/3daysago without any trouble? :)
15:00:59 <Morian> it seemed too complicated in pure url rewrite ^^' (or maybe just impossible)
15:01:12 <flo> (this isn't necessarily useful though)
15:01:21 <Morian> flo: mmmh ... yes
15:01:24 <Mic> Time warps? http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/thedayaftertomorrow
15:01:42 <Mic> oh, this is great
15:01:47 <flo> better: thedayafterthe0.2release :-P
15:02:08 <Mic> "Instantbot: abs filed new bug ### ...", "Instantbot: abs filed new bug ### ...", "Instantbot: abs filed new bug ### ...", .. :P
15:02:23 <Mic> scnr
15:03:03 <Mic> Morian: can you add links to the log overview page, so this feature will be discoverable?
15:03:51 <Mic> Instantbot: when will 0.2 be released?
15:03:54 <instantbot> Mic: Sorry, I've no idea what 'when will 0.2 be released' might be.
15:03:57 <Morian> I will, but I also have to revamp the entire way the logs are displayed, it's a bit messy now that we have several hundreds of days...
15:05:00 <flo> Mic: I would bet "first half of July"
15:07:34 <Mic> Morian: the current display is typeahead-compatible, would be cool if the new display would be as well
15:09:35 <Morian> It probably will, I just don't know how I'll it, maybe class them by months, only displaying links to the last 15 days.
15:10:28 <Mic> bbl
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16:35:06 <Mic> bye
16:35:20 <clokep_work> Bye Mic.
16:35:31 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
16:35:33 <skeledrew> see yah
16:36:02 * skeledrew is now making a Pidgin emoticons package
16:36:54 <clokep_work> Is that compatible w/ Instantbird?
16:37:10 <skeledrew> of course
16:37:54 <skeledrew> i just looked at the IB setup and ripped the icons from my Pidgin install
16:38:07 <skeledrew> it's pretty simple
16:38:43 <skeledrew> making a script to automate most of it still; loads of smileys in that single theme...
16:38:49 <clokep_work> :)
16:41:24 <skeledrew> hmm. even better. i can have the script directly convert the Pidgin theme file to IB format :)
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16:44:28 <clokep_work> skeledrew: That would be convient. :)
16:44:46 <skeledrew> yep
16:44:48 <clokep_work> (and it would be more convenient if I could spell correctly)
16:44:57 <skeledrew> LOL
16:47:25 <skeledrew> wow. one thing about the Pidgin theme file format: it's actually protocol specific. maybe that could be incorporated later...
16:48:26 <skeledrew> oh. must be for the emoticon menu (also on my wish list...
16:50:20 <clokep_work> Yes, in my mockups I added a formatting bar.
16:50:43 <clokep_work> That's schedule for 0.3 I believe. :)
16:50:54 <clokep_work> Errr, *schedule.
16:50:57 <clokep_work> **scheduled
16:51:10 <skeledrew> lol
16:53:19 <skeledrew> clokep_work: if you wanted a full text version for each smiley, what format indicator would be most suitable?
16:53:19 <skeledrew> eg. for a "smile" emoticon:
16:53:19 <skeledrew> ./smile
16:53:19 <skeledrew> --smile
16:53:19 <skeledrew> @smile
16:53:19 <skeledrew> or what?
16:54:11 <clokep_work> You mean as opposed to using emoticons? Like instead of : - ) what would I use?
16:54:22 <skeledrew> yeah
16:54:39 <clokep_work> Generally I use :: smile :: or : smile : to be emotions. I've also seen < smile > or [ smile ].
16:54:54 <skeledrew> the defaults will be there though
16:55:04 <skeledrew> k
16:55:20 <skeledrew> but what do you think'd be the easiest to access?
16:55:52 <clokep_work> Sorry, I'm not sure what we're going for here.
16:56:11 <skeledrew> just want a convenient format
16:57:52 <clokep_work> To type or to store information?
17:02:23 <skeledrew> it's the same thing pretty much
17:02:42 <skeledrew> umm. to type
17:04:23 <clokep_work> I don't know. Generally I enjoy the normal ones which spell out the face haa.
17:07:40 <skeledrew> those will be there too. i'm just putting in alternatives, esp for the more unusual ones
17:07:50 <clokep_work> Oh.
17:07:55 <clokep_work> Usually :: or :
17:08:28 <skeledrew> there're almost 200 possible emoticons in this pack...
17:09:10 <skeledrew> k
17:09:27 <skeledrew> :: it is
17:10:37 <clokep_work> 200 is a lot. :(
17:11:04 <skeledrew> lol
17:11:21 <skeledrew> it's actually protocol specific
17:11:48 <skeledrew> but since IB isn't, i guess they all go for each protocol
17:11:54 <skeledrew> at least for now
17:12:20 <clokep_work> Interesting.
17:12:23 <clokep_work> Ever get a bug email or no?
17:12:35 <skeledrew> ?
17:12:41 <skeledrew> no
17:13:21 <skeledrew> hmm
17:13:47 <skeledrew> CSS should be able to handle the viewing of those icons
17:18:20 <clokep_work> Depends how you have 'em organized. ;)
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18:14:43 <flo> "<skeledrew> clokep_work: if you wanted a full text version for each smiley, what format indicator would be most suitable?" Warning: this is not localizable ;).
18:14:56 <Mic> re
18:15:32 <Mic> flo: maybe a sort of jetpack localization solution?
18:15:54 <flo> no
18:15:56 <Mic> It looks if the string is available in the users locale and downloads+caches it if it does
18:15:59 <clokep_work> You know the majority of our extensions it seems should really be Jetpacks as opposed to full-fledged extensions. :P
18:16:11 <flo> if you type an emoticon that has a full text name, the name is the same whichever locale you use
18:16:44 <flo> and the other person receives it
18:17:09 <Mic> Maybe I should start reading the logs before posting
18:17:37 <flo> maybe
18:17:47 <flo> (it's also possible that I got it wrong, though ;))
18:19:27 <clokep_work> flo: You're right I believe, also your "buddy" probably doesn't have the same emoticons as you do...so not very helpful to send them :shy_smile_then_puke: or something. :P
18:19:56 <flo> this will probably be posted on the blog soon (this evening or tomorrow): http://pastebin.instantbird.com/263 proofreading/suggestions much appreciated.
18:20:19 <Mic> With full text version I thought there would be something like a description for a smilie
18:21:22 <clokep_work> "could have hold some truth" --> "could have held some truth"
18:21:39 <flo> thanks :)
18:22:20 <Mic> "We think about the use cases." -> "We, actually, think about the use cases." ? :P
18:22:46 <clokep_work> "Sometimes we take inspiration and implement something very similarly than another client" is really awkward, maybe "Sometimes we take inspiration and implement something in a similar way to another client"
18:24:29 <clokep_work> "What we do care about is our users. Our current users of course, but also future users." the second sentence isn't a sentence... --> "What we do care about is our users: our current users of course, but also future users."
18:25:05 <clokep_work> Is webbrowser considered one word? (Firefox doesn't think so. :P)
18:25:54 <flo> it's web browser
18:25:56 <flo> thanks
18:25:57 <clokep_work> "...Gmail, Facebook or Meebo their IM needs" -- >"...Gmail, Facebook or Meebo /for/ their IM needs"
18:26:58 <clokep_work> "don't hesitate to get in touch with us." --> "don't hesitate to get in touch with us. (FIXME link to contact info?)"?
18:27:23 <clokep_work> Sorry if you feel I'm ripping anything apart, and don't feel its necessary to change any of them, but just things /I/ would change. :)
18:27:49 <flo> don't worry
18:28:33 <flo> I know proof reading is required. Both because we all make mistakes, and because I'm not a native english speaker. ;)
18:29:08 <clokep_work> The still relevant in 2010 part I feel like could also be expanded to discuss how most IM programs are based on the same UI etc that has been used for years and years, but that's more if I were going to write a paper on it. :P
18:29:13 <flo> clokep_work: and things like "/for/ their IM needs"... I would see it when reading, but only if I was reading some new text.
18:29:45 <clokep_work> Haha, well I'm a native English speaker, but my grammar isn't that good. I'm an engineer after all. ;) Didn't take many humanities in college.
18:29:57 <clokep_work> Right, its very easy to miss mistakes in your own work since you know what you mean!
18:30:29 <flo> yeah, I've already read it at least 3 or 5 times
18:30:42 <flo> so I know the end of the sentence without even reading it completely
18:30:58 <flo> by the way, I'm an engineer too ;)
18:31:12 <clokep_work> Good to know. :P
18:31:20 <clokep_work> The last paragraph, you might want to include "new users" in it as well?
18:32:05 <clokep_work> "We are confident that if you have tried a release from the Instantbird 0.1.* series, you will see Instantbird 0.2 as major improvement. And if you haven’t used Instantbird before, then the 0.2 release is a great time to start! "
18:32:07 <clokep_work> Or something.
18:32:16 <flo> good :)
18:32:32 <flo> I was about to say "please suggest a sentence, I've no inspiration currently" :-D
18:33:43 <flo> (by the way, if you want to write a paper someday, or just a blog post about how little IM UIs have changed during the last 10 years or so, it could be a great idea :))
18:34:10 <clokep_work> I'll put it on my todo list.
18:34:54 <flo> I'll put on the wiki the next blog posts, so that people have more time to proofread them
18:35:07 <flo> I have a dozen or so that are written/planned
18:35:47 <clokep_work> flo: Instantbird needs a mailing list.
18:36:03 <clokep_work> (Or preferably NNTP. O:))
18:36:15 <flo> and I have about 30 screenshots to take
18:36:26 <clokep_work> Good luck with that, hope you have a good program for it.
18:36:37 <flo> clokep_work: we have one, but unfortunately it's private and at least half of the messages are in french there
18:36:42 <flo> I agree we need a public one :)
18:38:37 <clokep_work> Ah, I see.
18:38:38 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/264 same post with the mistakes you spotted fixed. (so that if someone else wants to proof read, the same mistakes don't come again :))
18:39:01 <flo> contact@instantbird.org redirects to instantbird@groups.google.com
18:39:24 <flo> dinner time
18:39:27 <flo> thanks for the help! :)
18:39:29 <clokep_work> Ah I see. So then you can all discuss it neat.
18:39:44 <flo> and anybody can reply if I'm away for a few days
18:42:23 <Mic> Do we count messagestyles and icon-themes as extensions?
18:43:36 <clokep_work> I think according to the Mozilla definitions they'd be "addons" as opposed to "extensions"?
18:44:39 <Mic> If I knew what the definitions were exactly ..
18:45:18 <Mic> .. if you know a good page shedding light on this I would be glad to know.
18:46:07 <Mic> (There's a glossary for more technical things at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Glossary btw)
18:47:19 <clokep_work> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions
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18:47:41 <clokep_work> And also: "It is also worth noting that there are differences between the definition of extension and add-on. All extensions are add-ons, but add-ons can also be themes, plugins, or language packs..."
18:47:50 <clokep_work> from https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_School/Getting_Started_with_Firefox_Extensions (3rd paragraph)
18:48:53 <Mic> thanks
18:49:04 <clokep_work> Not sure how "official" they are...
18:49:16 <Mic> The sentence at the beginning of line 2 is extremely long imo
18:49:23 <Mic> (in flo's blog posting9
18:49:51 <clokep_work> I'm actually pretty positive its a run-on. :)
18:50:42 <clokep_work> Could just be cut to "The development of this version has been going on for more than a year already! While we have been busy adding new features or polishing existing ones, we may have missed a few opportunities to communicate about what we were doing, what we had already done, where we are going, and why."
18:50:55 <clokep_work> Which just pulls the first sentence out, and adds more emotion.
18:51:04 <Mic> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=run-on
18:51:34 <Mic> I had to look this one up and the first item is a nice example :D
18:51:46 <Mic> (on purpose I guess)
18:52:27 <clokep_work> :)
18:54:12 * clokep_work wonders why pastebin doesn't have syntax highlighting for grammar and spelling...
19:01:34 <Mic> ".. despite its low version number. " -> if we do it the Google Chrome way, we could have IB 1.0 by August,  2.0 February next year and be up to 6.0 within the next one and a half year ;)
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19:29:57 <Mic> flo: the roadmap could use some work, e.g. making clear what was meant with the Pidgin remark
19:30:47 <Mic> I know it's supposed to be a roadmap, but I think adding a remark which features were implemented or not could be useful
19:31:30 <Mic> Including a way to show that a feature will be included in a later release instead
19:32:04 <Mic> "-> 0.3" or whatsoever
19:33:03 <Mic> I find it useful to show the overall progress and having it elsewhere would mean to duplicate the roadmap and include additional content
19:35:19 <Mic> What will happen to the FAQ? Will there be a dedicated page on the website or will the wiki page get promoted to the official FAQ page?
19:38:06 <clokep_work> I agree, the roadmap needs a good updating. Maybe mark stuffed as "missed" for 0.2 and then repeat it below?
19:40:32 <clokep_work> Especially since the blog entry talks about where Instantbird is going...it'll probably drive traffic to the roadmap
19:52:59 <Mic> flo: something for the next release (iirc you've got a ToDo-before-release-list): announce string freeze
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20:57:48 <flo> Mic: we are string frozen since 0.2b2
20:58:07 <flo> but yeah, we haven't announced it
20:58:41 <Mic> Would be nice .. I remember how I wondered why one of my patches hang in the review and nothing happened
20:59:01 <Mic> One day you told me that it was that it would break the string freeze
20:59:14 <flo> of course, at the time I expected the 0.2 final release to come about 2 weeks after the beta :(
20:59:25 <Mic> Which might have occured to me that we actually had string freeze already
21:00:45 <flo> my communication on this (the patch, and the localizations...) was really poor. I'm sorry.
21:00:51 <Mic> Is there a reason that default branch contains the release version and a new one new features / the js protocols?
21:01:01 <Mic> That's what I wondered recently .. 
21:01:29 <flo> I wanted to keep nightly testers on the code we were about to release
21:01:33 <Mic> Somehow I would have expected a branch with the release and the usual nightlies containing all the new stuff
21:01:45 <flo> so that we don't discover a day or two after the release that it doesn't actually work
21:02:47 <flo> and also, some of the stuff I pushed in the js-proto branch didn't have the quality you can expect in nightly builds (some day the code had bug that would have prevented most accounts from connecting)
21:03:44 <flo> I'm really sorry about the confusion
21:04:04 <Mic> I had to smile at the "quality"-part ;) 
21:04:26 <flo> I plan to do a "post mortem" after the 0.2 release, so that we have an opportunity to list all the things where we went off track on that release
21:04:39 <flo> especially, how come we end up needing 3 months when I expect 2 weeks
21:04:55 <flo> or 12 months when I expect 2
21:05:19 <flo> I know it's usual for software release dates to slip
21:05:36 <flo> but it shouldn't be by such a huge delay.
21:05:44 <Mic> That happens to the best
21:06:01 <Mic> StarCraft2, Duke Nukem Forever, Hurd ... ;)
21:06:03 <flo> As you pointed out, such delays (with the confusion and without the communication) prevent active contributions from people outside the decision
21:06:35 <flo> yeah, I know that happens to others too
21:06:52 <flo> but I really want to know what was just "bad luck" and what was caused by mistakes that we need to avoid in the future
21:06:56 <Mic> My question about the branches were based on something I read about Bugzilla
21:07:43 <flo> by the way, when something looks unclear, please do ask questions.
21:08:02 <flo> it may not be clearer in my mind, but at least you will be sure that we are not "hiding" something ;).
21:09:11 <Mic> http://bugzillaupdate.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/release-3-6/
21:09:58 <Mic> Look for "never freeze the trunk"
21:11:54 <flo> I'm currently the only one who can review and land patches (I really hope this will change as soon as possible, but it will obviously take time for some more people to know enough of our code to make useful review).
21:12:25 <flo> so if I'm doing something else, the trunk is actually frozen. Even if it's not a policy
21:14:38 <Mic> That be true
21:14:50 <flo> I guess that's questions we will need to address once 0.2 is released: which parts of the project have I spent time on that would have been better used elsewhere?
21:15:00 <flo> how can we help more people get involved and learn the codebase?
21:15:36 <clokep_work> So will there be a branch after 0.2? One for 0.2.* and one for 0.3pre or whatever?
21:15:54 <Mic> Ah, there it is: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:release_process
21:15:58 <flo> 0.2 will be a branch
21:16:00 <Mic> An orphaned article
21:16:09 <flo> and the current "trunk" will be 0.3a1pre
21:16:50 <flo> by the way, it's nice that we have this discussion :)
21:18:10 <clokep_work> Based off Gecko 2, right? ;)
21:18:29 <flo> that's likely
21:18:40 <Mic> Before it gets lost somewhere, I'd like to bing up the roadmap and the FAQ topic again
21:19:46 <flo> hmm.
21:19:58 <Mic> In the meantime I noticed that we already have a "Timeline" article
21:20:07 <clokep_work> Also I fixed another weird sentence in the blog post: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/100628/#m578
21:20:28 <Mic> Which lists added features, even though it doesn't show which goals were met and which postponed iirc
21:20:30 <flo> clokep_work: cutting it in 2 pieces?
21:20:45 <clokep_work> Yeah, let people "take a breath" while reading it.
21:20:46 <clokep_work> :)
21:20:52 <flo> ok, thanks! :)
21:20:58 * flo breaths too
21:21:01 <clokep_work> Or just make it a semi-colon. ;)
21:21:07 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:timeline
21:21:13 * clokep_work was always taught to never use semi-colons.
21:22:09 <flo> Mic: so is the goal of a "roadmap" document to look forward, or to show how well/badly we matched our past previsions?
21:22:48 <clokep_work> I think both.
21:23:01 <flo> "No significant feature of Pidgin available in Libpurple should be missing in Instantbird. " that goal is stupid.
21:23:27 <Mic> If it's supposed to look only forward then maybe remove the previous releases from the list
21:23:29 <flo> "significant" is meaningless (anybody can make it mean whatever is wanted)
21:24:09 <flo> yes, I think we could remove all the info about the previous releases
21:24:48 <flo> the 0.3 goals also need to be discussed
21:25:15 <flo> well, you are right, I should definitely cleanup/update that document before publishing the blog post
21:26:56 <flo> about the FAQ, what do you think?
21:27:59 <Mic> Personally I would prefer the wiki, as it would allow (me) to add things more easily
21:28:41 <flo> so it's just a matter of reactivity when updating the website?
21:28:45 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
21:29:14 <flo> as I see it, the wiki is not really a resource for end users.
21:29:34 <flo> it's more targeted at developers (both add-on developers, and people who want to get involved in the project itself)
21:29:54 <Mic> hmm, then it's not the place for the general FAQ
21:30:47 <clokep_work> I'm out. Be back in a bit.
21:30:50 <Mic> maybe we should check for duplicate information and try to minimize it
21:30:56 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:31:13 <Mic> ie remove the FAQ from the wiki if the website is uptodate (no idea how it is right now)
21:31:34 <Mic> And do the same for things like the "compiling old version" website/article
21:32:11 <flo> what about we update the main website more frequently, and we take suggestion for FAQ additions from the wiki page?
21:32:43 <Mic> why not
21:32:46 <flo> we could even at the bottom of the FAQ page of the website link to the wiki page, saying "see more entries suggested to be added here."
21:33:04 <flo> (at this point, it's just a suggestion, I haven't carefully thought the details)
21:33:30 <flo> by the way, the website is in a mercurial repository, and it's possible to anybody to patch it, and attach patch in bugzilla, like to any other code of the project.
21:33:57 <flo> (patching it now is not a good idea though, as it's going to be replaced very soon with the version currently in development)
21:34:08 <flo> I think I've shown some preview of it already
21:34:27 <Mic> The maquette images?
21:34:31 <flo> yeah
21:34:39 <Mic> Yes
21:34:57 <flo> I haven't implemented yet the detection of the OS/language
21:35:07 <Mic> Oh, the OS's have been updated on Bugzilla as it seems:)
21:36:29 <flo> I added XP and 7 this morning
21:36:35 <flo> I also changed the favicon :)
21:38:44 <Mic> Is it possible to link to a folder on the addons repository (hg) without a revision?
21:39:07 <flo> not sure
21:39:14 <flo> but I think we should at it in lxr! :)
21:39:20 <flo> *add
21:40:13 <Mic> I wanted to set links to the "example extensions" from the wiki article but failed to find a way to link there without pointing to a certain revision
21:40:44 <flo> "tip" may be an interesting revision
21:40:47 <flo> not sure if it works
21:41:33 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/repos/file/default/disconnectall :)
21:41:49 <Mic> Ah, seems so
21:41:58 <Mic> Using "tip" works as well
21:42:12 <flo> yes
21:42:17 <Mic> What if there were different branches?
21:42:21 <flo> I'm not sure if we are going to pay with branches there :-D
21:42:24 <Mic> You said each has a tip
21:43:28 <Mic> If anyone has complaints about a wiki article then tell me, I'll try to fix it then
21:43:49 <flo> *play
21:44:12 <Mic> (excludes: the Mercurial articles which are just ways too long :P )
21:52:33 <Mic> If you push the "Link bugzilla" extension you can add the missing link to the extensions page maybe
21:53:21 <flo> I think I'm too tired for it this evening
21:53:23 <flo> sorry :(
21:53:42 <Mic> no problem
21:53:57 <flo> that's the second time I delay it already :(
21:56:08 <Mic> Categorizing the articles would be good as well :S
21:58:05 <flo> yes, at least for those that have some use other than being a notepad
21:58:59 <Mic> And even these could be tagged as something like this ;)
21:59:51 <Mic> The wiki will have english-only articles iirc what we discussed once
22:00:02 <flo> they could be tagged with the name of the owner of the notepad :-D
22:00:06 <Mic> (there are two russian articles atm)
22:00:32 <flo> are they new articles or partial translations of other articles?
22:00:43 <Mic> partial translations 
22:00:58 <clokep> flo: I would suggest people use their own subpages as their own notepads, i.e. User:clokep/somepage would be mine.
22:01:00 <flo> I don't think we want to translate the articles targeted at developers
22:01:04 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B_%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2
22:01:09 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0
22:01:34 <flo> arg, the formatting should be better in the conversation content
22:01:45 <Mic> maybe we should display links without url encoding
22:01:57 <flo> I have nothing against localization team using the wiki in their own languages for collaboration purposes
22:01:59 <Mic> Exactly my thoughts :)
22:02:34 <flo> we already need to mess around the display of links to prevent the addition of emoticons,
22:02:38 <flo> we can do that too
22:02:52 <flo> (note that in the status bar the links are correctly displayed)
22:02:53 <Mic> I still have the text modifier linkification
22:03:09 <flo> clokep: that's what I thought.
22:03:37 <Mic> I could post it as WIP somewhere
22:04:11 <Mic> Maybe I should just finish it instead of keep chatting here
22:04:19 <flo> Mic: If I'm not mistaken, currently we can add emoticons inside links that haven't been created by the linkification, but were sent by the remote contact
22:06:04 <flo> clokep: Although in practice, I'm not completely sure of which pages I write are notepads or useful documentation.
22:06:21 <clokep> flo: By definition they're notepads then. :)
22:07:14 <flo> fair enough!
22:07:55 <Mic> Wiki articles that can be deleted: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/265
22:08:33 <flo> the rss template is no longer used?
22:08:44 <Mic> I never was
22:09:06 <clokep> You can check on the sidebar "What links here" if you're unsure ever. ;)
22:09:48 <Mic> I wanted to add a link on an icon but MediaWiki requires you to do ugly things to get it working nicely
22:10:02 <flo> ok
22:10:04 <Mic> It just wasn't worth the troubles
22:10:26 <Morian> Does instantbot works with bugzilla?
22:10:43 <flo> anyone has a bug to resolve? :)
22:12:39 <Mic> Add a new one?
22:12:41 <skeledrew> you know, re the emoticons, i think IB users would benefit the most from the Pidgin set. we'd have smilies immediately available for most protocols...
22:12:41 <skeledrew> flo: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/264
22:12:41 <skeledrew> line 4 - *... to /make up for/ our
22:12:41 <skeledrew> line 6 - *(1st sentence seems a bit long winded). *This /led/ some people ... interface /and/ reimplementing *Although this could have held some truth for the earlier goal of Instantbird - which was to provide the extensibility that is loved in Firefox and features similar to those found in Pidgin - this is no longer the case.
22:12:41 <skeledrew> i consider myself a self proclaimed English language aesthete :)
22:13:55 <flo> Mic: It seems that both bug 358 and bug 384 are caused by using a 32bit build on a 64bit OS. Do you think we should resolve them as duplicate of bug 395 ?
22:13:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Notifications fail to use libnotify
22:13:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "Failed to load XPCOM component 'libmozgnome'" message on the error console
22:14:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 64-bit builds
22:14:53 <Morian> mmmh
22:15:11 <Morian> could be a good training for instantbot at least :-D
22:15:28 <Mic> Bug 358 and bug 384 are duplicates, aren't they?
22:15:38 <Mic> One describes the reason, the other the effect of the bug
22:16:58 <Morian> ok /me is monitoring his postfix logs
22:17:13 <Mic> I'll resolve duplicate #358
22:17:26 <flo> Mic: libmozgnome is not used for libnotify notifications
22:17:48 <Mic> ok ..
22:17:54 <flo> ooops
22:17:58 <flo> scratch that :(
22:18:46 <flo> anyway, we can't "fix" it
22:19:04 <flo> we can only produce 64bit builds, or teach users how to install the 32bit binaries.
22:19:08 <-- Amfi has left #instantbird ()
22:19:15 <flo> both were discussed in bug 395
22:19:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 64-bit builds
22:19:30 <flo> skeledrew: thank you for the corrections! :)
22:19:58 <skeledrew> k
22:19:59 <skeledrew> still reviewing
22:20:23 <Mic> ok, I'll keep my fingers off the bugs. 
22:20:46 <Morian> so, nothing to do to check my configuration ? :(
22:21:04 <clokep> skeledrew: If you didn't get the email for BIO this might be a good time to bring it to people's attention...? ;)
22:21:18 <flo> Mic: but I still agree with "One describes the reason, the other the effect of the bug"
22:21:23 <skeledrew> ah yes
22:21:31 <flo> one is the reason, the other the effect, and another the "fix" ;)
22:21:42 <Mic> ok, "duplicate"ing then 
22:22:09 <skeledrew> flo: still waiting for a confirmation email for bugzilla acct creation (since yesterday)...
22:22:21 <clokep> I think 2 days ago?
22:22:27 <flo> are you sure it isn't in your spam folder?
22:22:31 <skeledrew> just about
22:22:39 <skeledrew> hmm
22:22:43 <skeledrew> lemme check
22:22:50 <flo> Morian: your postfix is slower than usual, or doesn't work
22:23:00 <flo> (both emails are in my inbox)
22:24:43 <Morian> doesn't work
22:24:51 <Morian> permission denied
22:24:52 <Morian> :)
22:24:52 <Morian> working on it
22:24:56 <skeledrew> oh maaan. ALL my emails from IB were sent to spam. it's clean otherwise... :(
22:26:08 <flo> we have 134 user accounts on the bugzilla
22:26:43 <Morian> but the canardbox is still trying to send it
22:26:52 <Morian> it will allow extra tests ^^'
22:27:05 <clokep> Mic: Once the Bugzilla link code is in the repo I'll see about adding other Options.
22:27:06 <Mic> Oops, I've definitely exceeded my share of bugs then ;)
22:27:20 <Mic> :)
22:27:31 * flo suggests adding to the FAQ "I haven't received my confirmation email from bugzilla? Check your spam folder."
22:27:59 <flo> Mic: your share of created bugs, or resolved bugs?
22:28:14 <flo> I've probably exceeded mine of both
22:28:15 <Mic> Most likely both
22:28:21 <flo> :)
22:28:34 <Mic> I mean it takes just four bugs each to get over both 
22:28:48 <Morian> next try will be the one...
22:28:50 <skeledrew> flo: not just bugzilla. for the addons and wiki accts too...
22:29:12 <flo> aah
22:29:25 <flo> your email provider doesn't like our server/ip address?
22:29:42 <skeledrew> it's GMail
22:29:54 <flo> that's surprising then
22:30:07 <Morian> what's the reverse DNS of the box ?
22:30:09 <skeledrew> yeah
22:30:13 <clokep> I've had gmail put them in Spam as well.
22:30:33 <clokep> But I caught them in Thunderbird. :) So its fine.
22:30:53 <skeledrew> IB mail was the first to get the spam since i started using GMail :(
22:30:54 <flo> Morian: why?
22:31:50 <Morian> it seems like some mail provided don't like when emails are coming from a different domain, as far as i remember
22:32:16 <Morian> well, still access denied, what is the user used by postfix then ;(
22:34:18 <flo> Received: from hg.instantbird.org (www.canardbox.com [])
22:34:28 <flo> I wonder where this hg.instantbird.org is coming from
22:35:27 <flo> ah, my instantbird emails are not sent to gmail
22:35:44 <flo> they are redirected through the registrar of instantbird.org
22:35:44 <Morian> host for the IP is www.canardbox.com
22:36:00 <skeledrew> my wiki acct email link expired :(
22:36:20 <skeledrew> should be a no-brainer to have it resent right?
22:36:54 <Mic> flo: is bug 160 a 0.1.3 bug only or is it still valid?
22:36:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Crash [@ purpleAccount::GetAlias]
22:37:17 <Morian> aaaaaaaaaaaaa I know what's the problem ... directory permission
22:37:18 <Morian> well
22:37:21 <Mic> Either way we should update the info or close it maybe (or wait until 0.2 is released and then close)?
22:37:44 <Mic> I guess all 0.1.3 bugs will be close once 0.2 is out?
22:37:48 <Mic> *closed
22:38:34 <flo> I just resolved it as incomplete
22:39:19 <flo> I guess we will have some cleanup to do, yes :)
22:40:35 <flo> skeledrew: any idea of how to do that? :)
22:40:42 <Mic> Morian: ready to have a bug closed?
22:41:39 <Mic> Bug 388 is fixed now
22:41:39 <skeledrew> flo: re?
22:41:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=388 min, --, ---, raynaudquentin, NEW, Add search engines to AIO (problem: none there at the moment)
22:41:49 <flo> skeledrew: resending the link
22:41:59 <skeledrew> hmm
22:42:04 <skeledrew> start over?
22:42:48 <Morian> Now it should work (for real...)
22:43:19 * Morian is waiting for the next try from the canardbox :)
22:43:46 <Morian> err... fail again -_-
22:45:16 <flo> skeledrew: so you need the other account to be deleted?
22:45:26 <Mic> If it goes on like this I actually have to fix bugs to 'resolve fixed' something ;)
22:46:20 <skeledrew> well, i haven't gone to it yet. can the link be refreshed?
22:46:43 <flo> I don't know
22:46:53 <skeledrew> :)
22:48:12 <flo> anyway, good night! :)
22:48:21 <skeledrew> wow
22:48:27 <skeledrew> that always surpises me
22:48:31 <Mic> flo: What about bug 62
22:48:33 <skeledrew> g'night
22:48:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62 nor, --, ---, idechix, NEW, Main page is not contains full info about protocols.
22:48:34 <flo> it's almost 1am
22:48:41 <skeledrew> k
22:48:53 <skeledrew> it's almost 6pm for me
22:49:26 * Mic will most likely just get 5hours of sleep tonight ..
22:49:31 <flo> Mic: WONTFIX 
22:49:48 <flo> Mic: my alarm clock is at 5:45am everyday...
22:50:04 <Mic> mine too .. 
22:50:33 <flo> you've already missed 5 minutes of your 5hours of sleep ;)
22:50:36 <Mic> I need to go to uni by public transportation that takes some time and if you want to be there early ..
22:51:17 <flo> I take a train (and need the care first to go to the station), then the metro
22:51:38 <flo> *car
22:53:14 <Mic> Morian: let me know if you're ready 
22:58:26 <skeledrew> line 7 - *we carefully /consider/ how...
23:06:23 <Mic> good night
23:07:14 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
23:18:58 <clokep> I got vertical tabs working. :) They don't look super pretty...but they're "usable".
23:19:11 <clokep> (Kind of...)
23:31:54 <skeledrew> nice :)
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