#instantbird log on 06 22 2010

All times are UTC.

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05:50:40 <Mic> Good morning
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07:38:22 <flo> good morning :)
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17:49:52 <clokep_work> flo: I was playing with some stuff last night and I see a lot of the extensions seem to edit incoming messages before they actually get displayed...but is there a way to arbitrarily add to the message pane (or whatever you call it), it seems to be readonly from convbrowser.
17:51:04 <flo> try the "appendMessage" method :)
17:51:27 <clokep_work> flo: I don't want to append a message. I want to add/remove arbitrary content.
17:51:46 <flo> you want to touch the HTML directly?
17:51:52 <clokep_work> Exactly.
17:52:12 <clokep_work> I don't want something that's part of the conversation, just a notifier.
17:52:33 <flo> the contentDocument property contains the "document" object that you usually use in the javascript of an HTML page
17:52:52 <flo> a notifier?
17:53:31 <clokep_work> The IRC webapp I've been using has this really nice feature where whenever it receives focus it puts a solid red line across the chat. I want to do that in Instantbird.
17:54:03 <clokep_work> So whenever the tab receives a blur event (I think that's the proper one to use, need to test), I would touch the HTML and add a <hr>
17:54:52 <flo> hmm
17:55:14 <flo> it's tempting to say it's something that should be done inside the code of the message theme
17:55:19 <clokep_work> So its mixed into the conversation...but its not /part/ of the conversation.
17:55:42 <flo> but the conversation area is not focused when you type in the textbox, so it wouldn't work
17:56:30 <flo> by the way, I wanted to have "new messages" brighter than old messages, and have the "face" begin only when the tab is focused
17:56:39 <flo> I think that would show nicely what you want :)
17:56:49 <flo> but it's probably more work to get it
17:57:26 <clokep_work> Yeah, its all a similar idea. I just had some free time last night and I figured "How hard can it be to draw a line?" :P Famous last words.
17:58:45 <clokep_work> Also worked a little bit on trying to make the tabs vertical instead of horizontal, but then didn't feel like thinking in CSS haha.
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18:06:30 <flo> heh :)
18:09:45 <clokep_work> Is that a "heh" that's impossible? :P
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18:19:06 <flo> yeah, changing the appearance of the tabs without feeling like thinking in CSS seems impossible ;)
18:20:29 <clokep_work> flo: Haha, I'm gonna take a look at some Fx extensions that do it today instead of just starting from scratch (and I compiled the null protocol so I don't have to constantly log on...) I mean the hr rule though?
18:22:22 <flo> I think you'll have to extend some code from convbrowser, right
18:24:19 <clokep_work> flo: Arg. OK. I'll have to look at it again when I have a decent amount of time to sit down. I saw that you can get the browser/document from it, but they're all read only so...not helpful haha.
18:24:46 <flo> read only? How so?
18:26:25 <clokep_work> You can get the "contentWindow" which I think is what I want? http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/convbrowser.xml#152
18:26:37 <clokep_work> (Or the contentDocument, a few lines below that)
18:27:25 <flo> are you saying it's read only because of the readonly="true" on the property?
18:28:22 <clokep_work> No, nsIDOMWindow is readonly.
18:28:29 <flo> if so: it's the content of the property that is readonly, not the content of the object
18:29:07 <clokep_work> I might be confusing myself, one second.
18:29:38 <flo> if the document was read only, I can guarantee there would be no message displayed in the conversation ;)
18:30:44 <clokep_work> flo: I was just being really dumb when I was looking this morning and taking read only attributes to mean the underlying object is read only. You're right. :)
18:30:47 <clokep_work> :-[
18:31:06 <flo> that's ok! we all make mistakes
18:31:24 <clokep_work> Thanks though. :)
18:31:31 <flo> it's better to admit it and move on than to insist on saying it couldn't work :)
18:31:48 <clokep_work> Hahah, true! :)
18:32:39 <clokep_work> Once I have the document it should really just be an appendChild and voila my extension is done. ;)
18:33:44 <clokep_work> So in terms of the null protocol...I left my computer compiling that today when I left, anything in particular I need to do to use it?
18:34:01 <flo> make sure you do this before inserting:   let insert = document.getElementById("insert"); if (insert)  insert.parentNode.removeChild(insert);
18:34:28 <clokep_work> What's that checking for?
18:34:46 <flo> if you have a message theme that can group consecutive messages
18:34:46 <clokep_work> It would just remove other instances of the same thing...
18:34:54 <clokep_work> Ohhhh, I see.
18:34:57 <Mic> For not trying to remove things that are not there
18:34:59 <flo> there's a <div id="insert"> node that indicates where the next message should be inserted
18:35:21 <clokep_work> So it would "force" it into starting a new message set?
18:35:29 <flo> yes
18:35:46 <clokep_work> Ah, now I don't need to figure out how to do that. :)
18:35:50 <flo> otherwise, if you just append you hr, some messages could be inserted before it ;)
18:36:27 <Mic> I think I took the question too literally ;)
18:36:29 <flo> by the way, the test is to avoid having a JS error when accessing the .parentNode property
18:36:36 <flo> I think removing null "works"
18:36:56 <clokep_work> Oh, I understood the test, just didn't realize there was a special element with "insert".
18:37:41 <flo> if there's no <div id="insert"> element, you insert at the end of the <div id="Chat"> element
18:37:51 <flo> see the insertHTMLForMessage function in imThemes.jsm
18:38:01 <clokep_work> flo: Will do, thanks.
18:38:20 <flo> well, you will always insert there anyway :)
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18:38:35 <flo> no problem :)
18:39:45 <clokep_work> Hopefully I can knock that out in a few minutes and then see about those vertical tabs. :P
18:43:15 <clokep_work> So, if the new EM is used in Instantbird (assuming it'll be updated to use gecko-2.0), the "messages styles" and "smile" packages might fit into there better. . .
18:46:07 <flo> we will see :)
18:46:28 <flo> Instantbird 0.2 won't use gecko2.0
18:46:49 <clokep_work> I didn't think it would.
18:46:52 <flo> but 0.3 (or 0.4 is we manage to release 0.3 very quickly after 0.2) will
18:47:03 <clokep_work> I assumed it'd be staying on whatever it is or whatever it is.
18:47:20 <clokep_work> What's left for 0.2? I don't remember seeing m uch on the "roadmap" that's not done.
18:47:49 <flo> I posted on the blog about this
18:48:08 <clokep_work> OK. I'll check it out.
18:48:29 <flo> I'll probably have 2 things to commit in the code repository though :)
18:49:11 <clokep_work> flo: So...the blog is definitely in my RSS reader, and I definitely missed that blog entry. :) I think it was when I was moving for summer. Sorry about that.
18:49:14 <clokep_work> Excellent!
18:49:33 <flo> dinner time, back later :)
19:07:22 <Mic> I wonder if it makes sense to 'scatter' messages styles and emoticons and content customization (fonts, colors,..) over several tabs in the preferences
19:08:15 <clokep_work> Mic: I think message styles/emoticons should all be tabs in add-ons manager.
19:08:23 <clokep_work> You don't run Firefox trunk, right? So you haven't seen it?
19:08:34 <Mic> Or if it would be better to 'group' around a live preview (like on the message styles) and allow the user to decide which part he wants to customize from there
19:08:50 <Mic> hmm, the in-content preferences thing?
19:09:26 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes, the in-content preferences thing. Although that's not the aspect I was going for haha.
19:09:38 <clokep_work> I do like the live preview. :)
19:09:56 <Mic> What does this mean, exactly?
19:10:08 <Mic> I know the screenshots but I haven't used it yet
19:10:32 <Mic> oh, sorry. The addons-manager you said
19:10:48 <Mic> I think I mixed things up here
19:10:57 <Mic> I know the new addons manager as well if you mean that
19:11:11 <clokep_work> Yes, which is "in-content" in Firefox, but that's not the aspect of it I meant. Just that its redesigned with lots of room to add "custom" things. I know Greasemonkey is planning to put userscripts into it.
19:16:30 <Mic> That's things I like
19:16:45 <Mic> I don't like the idea of stripping away the status bar though
19:17:27 <clokep_work> Mic: Yeah, but that doesn't apply to Instantbird. ;)
19:17:51 <Mic> Oh, the status bars are going to go away iirc
19:18:42 <Mic> I'd really like to know how the bookmarks toolbar is used in Firefox
19:18:51 <clokep_work> I don't use it.
19:18:56 <clokep_work> And Status bar is going away in Firefox, yes.
19:18:59 <Mic> The single most useless item on the UI in my opinion ;)
19:19:34 <Mic> I 'complained' on jboriss' (?) blog about that
19:20:06 <Mic> If you could move bookmark items anywhere like addon icons, there would be no need for a dedicated toolbar for them
19:20:43 <Mic> If you need a new bar, you should be able to create one, but one solely for bookmarks is not a good idea in my opinion
19:20:52 <Mic> I'd save the space there and keep the status bar ;)
19:21:00 <clokep_work> Yeah, it'd be nice if it'd all be customizable.
19:21:23 <clokep_work> I don't really have bookmarks I /always/ go to. And the istes I go to a lot I ju st type in the URL.
19:22:31 <Mic> I have loads of bookmarks
19:22:45 <Mic> So many that the awesomebar is the only way to use them ;)
19:23:54 <Mic> The thing with bookmarks is: you either have no, a few or many
19:24:16 <clokep_work> Yeah I have several hundred I think.
19:24:20 <Mic> And I think the bookmarks toolbar is only useful if you have only a few 
19:25:53 <Mic> Or if you use it as sort of action toolbar for bookmarklets
19:27:23 <clokep_work> Right. I just have keywords assigned to the like 2 bookmarklets I use.
19:29:14 <Mic> I only have keywords for quick searchs
19:29:39 <Mic> I disabled the search toolbar.. it's taking up space and you need to select what you want to search with
19:29:51 <Mic> Keywords are more efficient
19:31:13 <clokep_work> I did the same thing.
19:31:30 <clokep_work> Easier to just do "google instantbird" or "mdc something" or "bing whatever"
19:32:01 <Mic> yep
19:32:29 <Mic> Google Maps access via "whereis" ;)
19:32:56 <Mic> I like the idea of .. Ubiquity (?) even though I haven't tried it yet
19:33:16 <clokep_work> I do too, but it never seemed to run well. :-\
19:34:20 <Mic> I like the idea of using natural language to do things
19:34:56 <Mic> Until it works properly, we have to be content with Linux ;)
19:35:05 <Mic> 'Shutdown now'
19:36:10 <clokep_work> Hahah. Yes, sending the term signal are ya?
19:42:56 <Mic> bbl
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20:14:17 <Mic> re
20:17:43 <clokep_work> So is it just me or is the Add-Ons site kind of funky right now?
20:17:53 <clokep_work> Seems like its missing some UI or options?
20:17:56 <skeledrew1> snap
20:18:04 * skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew
20:24:52 <flo> clokep_work: arg, the "featured" add-on list seems empty
20:26:38 <clokep_work> flo: Well also if you click on a category...you can't do anything.
20:28:09 <flo> I don't see such a problem
20:28:12 <clokep_work> flo: When you go in...it gives the new/top downloads/top rated lists, but I thought there was more then just "view all" links at the bottom?
20:29:12 <flo> I don't remember that
20:29:20 <flo> I hate that website
20:29:41 <clokep_work> flo: Well there's a ton of white space under the lists? Is something supposed to be there.
20:29:50 <clokep_work> The newer versions of amo seem to be a lot better...
20:30:00 <flo> "seem" is the keyword
20:30:15 <clokep_work> From a users point of view.
20:30:29 <flo> but if you volunteer for a month of painful digging in the mess, you can handle the update :)
20:31:13 <flo> hmm, sorry. I should show more enthusiasm for that wonderful website :-|.
20:31:35 <clokep_work> flo: How out of date is it? Just one or two versions or like really out of date?
20:31:54 <flo> since when are there versions?
20:32:09 <flo> roll a dice, then take something out of svn
20:33:02 <flo> well. Sorry, that wasn't a nice answer. :(.
20:33:18 <clokep_work> I didn't realize it was still on svn, I thought it had been moved to hg.
20:33:32 <flo> I'm really tired, I guess I should rather go to sleep, instead of ranting about things I can't change
20:34:24 <clokep_work> flo: Have you seen this: https://wiki.mozilla.org/AMO:Developers
20:35:27 <flo> so they are on git now?
20:35:31 <flo> oh...
20:35:42 <clokep_work> Remora is dead.
20:35:47 <clokep_work> Being replaced by Zamboni.
20:35:56 <clokep_work> AMO v4.x
20:36:05 <clokep_work> (I think AMO is running 4.2 right now?)
20:37:14 <flo> the modified version that we use is at https://hg.instantbird.org/websites/remora/
20:37:40 <clokep_work> Yeah I saw. :) Is it mostly just string changes?
20:38:51 <flo> yeah, that's what is called "patching". You change some strings in some files :).
20:39:31 <clokep_work> I know what patching is. :P But I meant the "modifications" are mostly just like changing URLs and changing Mozilla --> Instantbird hah.
20:41:05 <flo> and bugs...
20:41:16 <clokep_work> Ouch. :(
20:41:19 <flo> Even worked on this for weeks, or months, I don't remember
20:41:30 <flo> nothing really worked "out of the box"
20:42:19 <clokep_work> Interesting.
20:42:57 <flo> I neither know nor remember the details
20:43:32 <flo> good evening/night/whatever is appropriate in your timezone :)
20:43:37 <clokep_work> 'night.
20:43:41 <flo> thanks
20:43:42 <Mic> good night
20:45:32 <Mic> clokep_work: the categories work for me
20:45:59 <Mic> Some are still empty, though!
20:46:20 <clokep_work> Mic: Maybe they're just empty and the site is ugly haha.
20:46:39 <Mic> Protocols is empty, most of the others should have something
20:50:21 <Mic> I think it lacks some important features in general
20:51:06 <Mic> I think people should be able to transfer ownership of addons (that's requires some help from an 'official' right now iirc)
20:51:13 <clokep_work> The newer version of AMO is definitely a bit nicer. :)
20:51:36 <Mic> And the problem of orphaned addons has to be solved somehow
20:51:59 <clokep_work> Its a problem that plagues AMO too. :(
20:52:09 <Mic> That's what I mean
20:52:13 <Mic> AMO needs to be fixed
20:53:02 <clokep_work> But what do you do? Just remove all the old ones or?
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20:54:24 <Mic> Maybe let others propose fixes for problems/compatibility issues if the author fails to do so himself within a reasonable amount of time
20:55:30 <Mic> Requires to know that there are such problems ofcourse
20:55:33 <clokep_work> What actually bothers me more then the orphans is the orphans...then with a "Fix" version and a "Fix 2" and a "super fix", it seems a lot of extension authors don't want to accept patches/give commit access to others.
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20:56:38 <Mic> I meant that authors had to agree on uploading that such a thing might happen if they don't care
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20:57:10 <clokep_work> Yeah...gotcha.
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20:57:32 <clokep_work> Well Instantbird could always roll its own solution, but that'd be a ton of work. :-\
21:01:32 <Mic> I don't think that this would actually be possible
21:02:13 <clokep_work> Just saying its an option. Not that its a good one. :)
21:02:55 <clokep_work> I'm out. Be back later.
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21:29:41 <Mic> Completion in Bespin: http://mozillalabs.com/bespin/files/2010/06/Bespin-0.8-with-command-line-in-white.png
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21:51:30 <Mic> good night
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