#instantbird log on 06 21 2010

All times are UTC.

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07:04:27 <flo> hi :)
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09:23:33 <Mic> hello
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12:12:51 <skeledrew> morning
12:12:51 <skeledrew> considering ease of implementation and efficiency, which would be preferred: writing per buddy settings to about:config or an independent file?
12:26:37 <flo> either would work
12:27:14 <flo> I think you can store all the settings in a JSON object, and put the JSON string either in a preference or in a file in the profile folder
12:30:43 <skeledrew> i'm reviewing the Pidgin settings file for the plugin i'm seeking to convert. it's in XML. does the JSON format have a tree structure?
12:31:01 <skeledrew> btw, it's the pounces plugin...
12:31:18 <flo> cool :)
12:31:34 <flo> yes, JSON can be seen as a tree :)
12:31:53 <skeledrew> ok
12:32:09 <skeledrew> now to find a doc on implementing it...
12:34:27 * Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005
12:34:31 <flo> so the things you need to do:
12:34:31 <flo> - listen to all the events that could be used for a buddy pounce (see https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Notifications)
12:34:31 <flo> - create the UI (play with some XUL here :))
12:34:31 <flo> - do things (play sounds, show pop-up notification, run commands)
12:34:31 <flo> - store this (using JSON sounds good).
12:35:10 <skeledrew> k
12:35:19 <skeledrew> my thoughts exactly
12:35:25 <flo> perfect! :)
12:35:38 <skeledrew> my only issue is with making GUIs
12:35:54 <flo> I think it will be hard to make a GUI sucking more that the pidgin one on this :-D
12:36:00 <skeledrew> wish there was some kind of designer
12:36:09 <skeledrew> lol
12:36:27 <flo> you can either try to copy identically the pidgin UI
12:36:38 <flo> nobody will blame you for this if you say it's a "port" of the pidgin thing
12:36:45 <flo> or try to come up with something usable
12:36:56 <skeledrew> k
12:37:51 <skeledrew> but it seems i'll have to learn CSS to do the layout
12:40:28 <flo> we are talking about this window, right? http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/shankarganesh/pidgin_notifications.jpg
12:40:35 <skeledrew> flo: why are there files with both XUL and JS?
12:41:02 <skeledrew> yep
12:41:11 <flo> which file is this? (probably because of someone's laziness)
12:41:30 <flo> well, if you want to copy it identically, you don't need any CSS
12:41:37 <skeledrew> conversations.xml
12:41:46 <flo> oh, these are XBL bindings
12:42:00 <skeledrew> *conversation.xml
12:42:06 <flo> it's a file that defines new XUL elements
12:44:08 <skeledrew> why wouldn't i need CSS if i'm duplicating it?
12:44:08 <skeledrew> k
12:44:08 <skeledrew> i'll have to read up on XBL
12:44:24 <flo> because it's all very simple UI elements
12:44:50 <skeledrew> so they won't be disorganized?
12:44:58 <flo> not worse than in Pidgin
12:45:03 <skeledrew> lol
12:45:08 <skeledrew> k
12:45:14 <flo> (in my opinion it's crappy to have that many checkboxes on a single window)
12:45:30 <skeledrew> k
12:45:39 <skeledrew> how would you prefer it?
12:46:43 <flo> I'd replace all the "Pounce When Buddy..." checkbox by a list box with more human friendly options
12:47:20 <skeledrew> more human friendly?
12:47:34 <flo> "when I can message ..."
12:47:35 <flo> "when ... needs my attention"
12:47:35 <flo> "----------------" (separator)
12:47:35 <flo> <list of all the events, that we generally don't care about>
12:47:56 <skeledrew> oh
12:47:59 <skeledrew> i see
12:48:32 <flo> so that it becomes a single decision for the user, instead of having to read the description of each checkbox
12:49:08 <skeledrew> ?
12:49:23 <flo> my solution is wrong if you think some users are likely to want a when a buddy "sends a message" OR "Pauses while typing". I think this is very likely to never happen.
12:49:59 <skeledrew> i do it...
12:50:02 <skeledrew> lol
12:50:14 <skeledrew> this looks pretty friendly to me though...
12:50:20 <flo> how could you want the exact same action for "send a message" and "pauses while typing"?
12:50:54 <skeledrew> no. for "sign on" and "typing"
12:51:17 <skeledrew> hmm
12:51:22 <flo> (by the way, you can add a "any event" item in my list of "human" events :))
12:51:39 <skeledrew> k...
12:51:57 <flo> but anyway, make sure you do something that works for you. It's your add-on ;)
12:52:01 <skeledrew> maybe we can have simple and advanced modes...
12:52:08 <skeledrew> k
12:52:30 <skeledrew> i'd prob do something complex
12:52:41 <flo> I love simplicity :)
12:53:11 <flo> but add-ons are here so that people who want it can add back the complexity that's hidden
12:53:41 <skeledrew> like just using a textbox that booleans and simple conditions can be entered...
12:54:13 <skeledrew> k
12:54:24 <flo> oh yeah "wanna do something complex? write your own code in this textbox:"
12:54:36 <flo> that's more or less what I did for the "highlight" add-on
12:54:46 <skeledrew> :)
12:55:02 <skeledrew> i need to check that out
12:55:23 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/highlight-1.0.xpi
12:55:44 <skeledrew> k
12:57:04 <skeledrew> there's a small irritation with the reply to nick addon. it adds the nick even when i'm copying text or clicking a link...
12:58:33 <flo> yes
12:58:39 <flo> I'll change it from single to double click
12:58:50 <skeledrew> nice
12:59:03 <flo> you are not the first one to complain about this
12:59:17 <flo> and I'm personally annoyed by it too :)
12:59:24 <skeledrew> lol
12:59:24 <skeledrew> k
13:28:23 <skeledrew> can i overlay conversation.xml from chrome.manifest? or would this cause issues?
13:30:57 <flo> you overlay the xul files, not the xbl bindings
13:33:30 <skeledrew> k
13:33:31 <skeledrew> so what file do i overlay to access the "new-text" event? or are all the variables, methods, etc of global scope?
13:56:11 <flo> the notifications dispatched through nsIObserverService are not tied to a specific window
13:57:13 <flo> you will need to overlay a window to make sure your script is loaded, but I'd avoid conversation windows, as you probably don't want your script to be loaded several times. I'd suggest overlaying blist.xul
13:58:42 <skeledrew> k
13:58:43 <skeledrew> where are aSubject, aTopic and aMsg declared?
13:59:48 <flo> do you learn better reading the documentation or studying an example?
14:00:00 <skeledrew> example
14:00:32 <skeledrew> some docs tend to get too drawn out
14:02:34 <skeledrew> right now i'm editing NickServKiller to make my own addon
14:02:53 <flo> oh, so you already have a working example?
14:03:28 <skeledrew> never really tried it, but i assume it works...
14:05:14 <skeledrew> need to get the name of a buddy who's typing, but there's no convo window open for them...
14:06:46 <Mic> I think you can get typing notifications only for open conversations .. 
14:07:10 <flo> oh, that's a conversation-specific notification
14:07:24 <skeledrew> really?
14:07:24 <skeledrew> there has to be some way
14:07:30 <skeledrew> k
14:07:48 <skeledrew> so that means i can't make a psychic addon?
14:08:15 <flo> I don't know :)
14:08:27 <flo> looking at the code
14:08:28 <skeledrew> oh boy...
14:08:32 <skeledrew> lol
14:09:44 <skeledrew> if it's even something to poll the buddies checking for who's typing and doesn't have a window, though the overhead might be terrible...
14:17:34 <Mic> What are you planning to do?
14:17:46 <Mic> Having a typing-icon on the buddy list or something like that?
14:18:19 <skeledrew> i wanted to implement Pidgin's psychic mode
14:18:45 <skeledrew> open a window as soon as someone starts typing to you
14:21:05 <Mic> afaik typing notifications can be unreliable
14:21:31 <flo> skeledrew: that really works only when you have started the conversation, and closed it before the other person replied
14:21:47 <flo> on most protocol, typing notifications are not exchanged until both participants have said something
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14:30:20 <skeledrew> it works in Pidgin...
14:30:29 <flo> which protocol?
14:30:47 <skeledrew> at least Yahoo
14:32:06 <skeledrew> not sure if i remember it happening for any other
14:41:32 <flo> I've never used yahoo, so I don't know
14:41:58 <skeledrew> oh
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19:03:50 <Mic> hi
19:04:35 <clokep_work> Hello Mic.
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19:06:41 <clokep_work> How're you doing?
19:07:18 <skeledrew> cool
19:07:38 <skeledrew> just lost my workspace again because of a powercut...
19:10:18 <clokep_work> Why you have all these power cuts...? And how does it cause you to lose your workspace?
19:13:17 <Mic> I was wondering why you keep connecting/disconnecting
19:14:32 <skeledrew> clokep_work: file explorer, Notepad++, browser, ... power company sucks
19:15:05 <clokep_work> Oh, so you didn't lose your files at least? That sucks though. UPS?
19:16:56 <skeledrew> files are ok, but i have to reopen them all again. and the browser takes a while to launch. UPS busted a while now :(
19:18:08 <skeledrew> Mic: IB has crashed of it's own accord a few times too
19:18:42 <Mic> oh, that's pretty unusual in my opinion
19:18:50 <Mic> Were you able to send crash reports?
19:19:17 <skeledrew> ve an unusual setup
19:19:23 <skeledrew> a couple times
19:19:43 <skeledrew> but the crash reporter crashed a few times too...
19:19:58 <Mic> What's so special about your setup?
19:19:58 <skeledrew> ***i have
19:20:04 <clokep_work> Could be your portalizer thing.
19:20:51 <skeledrew> it's a dinosaur forced to live in a modern world. and i run it pretty hard
19:21:22 <Mic> ah, ok
19:21:24 <skeledrew> plus it's been overheating from the other day. summer's taking it's toll
19:21:58 <Mic> My computer's usually dying in the sommer months as well
19:22:23 <skeledrew> clokep_work: nah. it doesn't interact with it except to setup the command line and cleanup after it exits
19:22:41 <skeledrew> k
19:22:43 <Mic> My brothers doesn't start when the pwoer supply is too cold (eg after having the window opened in winter) ... we rely on medium weather ;)
19:22:56 <clokep_work> Yes, computers can be pretty rough on computers -- I know mine didn't shut down while compiling Instantbird this morning though since I'm logged into here...
19:23:40 <clokep_work> *summers can be pretty rough on computers
19:25:13 <skeledrew> Mic: lol. well it's almost always hot where i am.
19:25:13 <skeledrew> clokep_work: yeah. i've lost two computers and several monitors to heat...
19:26:56 <Mic> That sounds pretty bad :S
19:27:48 <clokep_work> skeledrew: I had to have the whole heatsink/cooling assembly replaced in my laptop last summer (before it ran out of warranty :-x).
19:31:36 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah. it's moving sluggish again. have to shut down when the HDD overheat warning goes off. i'm in the Caribbean :)
19:31:36 <skeledrew> clokep_work: nice. i'll have to get a totally new system still. this is just too old and not upgradeable. don't have the funds right now though. not working ATM...
19:32:29 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Gives you lots of time to hack on Instantbird. :) Hopefully getting a new laptop this summer, but school kind of kills my funds.
19:33:12 <Mic> I haven't upgraded for years now, it's got its problem but I'm fine with that
19:33:28 <skeledrew> yeah
19:33:28 <skeledrew> k
19:33:36 <skeledrew> k
19:35:24 <clokep_work> So either of you guys know if I can easily put the tabs on the left side instead of on top in a conversation window? I think I might be able to do some CSS hackery to do it, but haven't tried yet.
19:35:50 <skeledrew> hmm
19:36:13 <skeledrew> code's prob in tabbrowser.xul
19:39:07 <clokep_work> Yeah, if its uses the same tabbrowser as Firefox then I already have the CSS changes, but I wasn't sure if it did (there's also something about a convbrowser or something I believe?)
19:39:59 <skeledrew> that's XML, not XUL
19:40:17 <skeledrew> wait
19:40:24 <clokep_work> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/tabbrowser.xml
19:40:24 <skeledrew> tabbrowser is too
19:41:26 <skeledrew> and flo said this morning they contain the XBL bindings. not to be overlayed...
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19:41:39 <clokep_work> Its not overlaying them.
19:41:46 <clokep_work> Its playing with the CSS. So it would be from...
19:41:54 <skeledrew> oh
19:41:58 <clokep_work> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/tabbrowser.css not from the xml.
19:42:06 <clokep_work> (See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Move_the_tab_bar_%28Firefox%29 )
19:42:06 <skeledrew> k
19:42:36 <skeledrew> *sighs*
19:42:52 <skeledrew> i don't even remember which addon i was working on
19:43:04 <skeledrew> i hate power cuts
19:43:08 <clokep_work> Haha, how many do you have going?
19:43:21 <skeledrew> about 3
19:43:37 <skeledrew> but 1 might ne impossible
19:43:51 <skeledrew> *be
19:44:04 <clokep_work> That's never a good feeling. :(
19:44:32 <skeledrew> maybe i should just start another...
19:47:03 <skeledrew> oh yes. my history addon...
19:47:37 <clokep_work> History in what way? Importing old conversations when you open again?
19:47:47 <skeledrew> yep
19:47:59 <clokep_work> That'd be pretty awesome.
19:48:08 <skeledrew> yeah
19:48:11 <skeledrew> i miss it
19:48:19 <skeledrew> worse with so many crashes
19:50:44 <skeledrew> clokep_work: which would you prefer? reloading just the last convo? or a certain amount of lines?
19:50:45 <Mic> Problem is: history doesn't have any markup
19:51:10 <clokep_work> Mic: But something is better then nothing, no?
19:51:14 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah. it'd need some raw editing
19:51:24 <Mic> Therefore you can't style it using the messagestyles
19:51:33 <clokep_work> skeledrew: What do yuo mean by "last convo" like the last thing said or the entire conversation?
19:51:35 <Mic> At least not properly
19:51:41 <skeledrew> oh
19:51:53 <skeledrew> clokep_work: the whole log file
19:51:56 <Mic> That's going to be fixed once there is a proper history format instead of Pidgin-like plain text files
19:51:59 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Personally I'd prefer a certain # of lines so I don't start w/ a really small scroll bar, but that's just me.
19:52:28 <skeledrew> Mic: Pidgin loads the whole log
19:52:46 <clokep_work> You could probably parse it and make it "usable".
19:52:47 <Mic> How does it do the styling with the plain text logs then?
19:53:03 <skeledrew> it doesn't use styles
19:53:08 <Mic> oh, ok
19:53:13 <skeledrew> Pidgin is plain bare-bones
19:53:20 <Mic> I haven't used Pidgin often
19:53:28 <skeledrew> like the simple style :)
19:53:34 <skeledrew> oh
19:53:35 <Mic> It completely looks out of place on Windows
19:53:43 <skeledrew> i had it several years
19:53:44 <clokep_work> The only styling is colors for names, but those can be gotten from a regex I would think...
19:53:51 <clokep_work> Mic: I agree. Why I swithced to Instantbird.
19:54:08 <skeledrew> i didn't mind
19:54:18 <skeledrew> it was all about the functionality
19:54:21 <Mic> And I don't think its usuability is too great
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19:54:44 <Mic> I really like that you can so easily change the UI of Instantbird
19:54:52 <skeledrew> k
19:54:59 <Mic> That's one of the greatest things of the Mozilla framework
19:54:59 <skeledrew> yeah
19:55:15 <skeledrew> i disliked the whole GTK story too
19:55:25 <Mic> Something you can't do with IE or Opera or Chrome, but you can with Firefox
19:55:28 <skeledrew> it was hell automating those windows
19:55:38 <skeledrew> true
19:56:28 <Mic> Oh, I was "toggling off" the menubar, the status bar and the away-status toolbar on the buddy list recently .. it was as slim as it could get :D
19:56:57 <clokep_work> I've found most apps that are built on a framework...and then ported to another OS to not be very good. I.e. GTK is for Linux originally, Pidgin/GIMP look pretty gross. iTunes on Windows looks very out of place. Amarok on Windows runs poorly, etc...
19:57:08 <skeledrew> one thing that always gets people who're touting the superiority of Opera/Chrome is when i load the browser chrome in the URL to nest the browser :D
19:58:04 <Mic> I think it is important that a program respects the OS style
19:58:16 <skeledrew> clokep_work: well i just want to know it works :)
19:58:51 <clokep_work> Mic: I agree. :) OS integration is very important.
19:58:56 <Mic> That's why I don't like programs with skins in general (applies to Personas as well). 
19:59:06 <Mic> Winamp might be the only exception ;)
19:59:17 <skeledrew> long as i'm getting my functionality, i don't really care about the look. if anything, i'll hide the GUI most of the time
19:59:19 <clokep_work> Mic: That was going to be my example of a program I hate because of skins. :(
19:59:30 <skeledrew> lol
19:59:51 <skeledrew> the only part of Winamp i see regularly is the notifier
20:00:18 <skeledrew> i use it for internet radio, and control it soley via global hotkeys
20:01:03 <Mic> I'm using the fullscreen mode of Firefox quite often recently
20:01:20 <Mic> It's a completely different "browsing experience" if you don't have UI clutter
20:01:34 <Mic> No task bar , not title bar, no toolbars. Just content.
20:01:59 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah. but for that i have a Prism addon installed...
20:02:02 <clokep_work> I recently hid the title bar, didn't miss it at all.
20:02:12 <skeledrew> best of both worlds
20:02:20 <clokep_work> skeledrew:http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/pidgin/plugins/history.c#32
20:02:38 <clokep_work> I believe that's the plain text log to HTML conversion in Pidgin.
20:02:41 <flo> Mic: you seem to love Personas so much ;)
20:03:08 <clokep_work> flo, Mic: All my non-techy friends love Personas.
20:03:09 <Mic> skeledrew: what is "Prism" ?
20:03:31 <skeledrew> flo: hmm. maybe we can have Personas for IB ;)
20:03:33 <Mic> Sure, most personas incredibly increase the readablity of the menubar
20:03:44 <clokep_work> Mic: http://mozillalabs.com/prism
20:03:48 <Mic> (if someone finds irony he's allowed to keep it)
20:04:04 <flo> skeledrew: sure. Let's add it to your todo list ;)
20:04:28 <skeledrew> Prism is a Mozilla based browser that puts emphasis on "webapps"
20:04:29 <Mic> clokep_work: web content on the desktop ... 
20:04:39 <Mic> woohoo, that is IE4-parity! :D
20:04:44 <flo> Is Prism still supported?
20:04:49 <skeledrew> flo: lol. my plate's currently full...
20:04:51 <Mic> Anyone remembers the active desktop? ;)
20:04:59 <clokep_work> Mic: Not actually on the desktop. It launches a web app in chromeless window so its like a desktop application.
20:05:02 <skeledrew> Mic: like a bad dream...
20:05:10 <flo> skeledrew: cool. Mine is infinite (so never full) :-)
20:05:52 <skeledrew> flo: you're the boss ;)
20:06:00 <Mic> well, I meant it doesn't even show the Windows taskbar (and similiar on other OS) in fullscreen mode
20:06:22 <flo> skeledrew: I'd love to give part of that to someone else ;)
20:06:35 <skeledrew> flo: lol
20:06:41 <skeledrew> i'll pass for now
20:07:07 <Mic> Even though nothing is going on there usually, I find it distracting
20:07:14 <skeledrew> right now i gotta build my knowledge base and experience
20:07:34 <flo> that seems to be what you are doing :)
20:07:38 <clokep_work> Mic: My taskbar autohides.
20:07:42 <skeledrew> yep
20:08:05 <Mic> I don't like think popping up when hitting the border of the screen :D
20:08:05 <skeledrew> clokep_work: i don't even have a task bar. or tray
20:08:23 <skeledrew> well, not the regular
20:08:44 <skeledrew> clokep_work: i switched my shell :)
20:08:54 <Mic> Especially annoying with Firefox: the fullscreen aressbar is pushing the content down, instead of just hovering over it and disappearing again
20:09:36 <Mic> The ever-present grey bar on top of the screen is also ugly but "required for discoverabilty"
20:10:09 <Mic> They're trying to replace it with a transparent 1px bar afaik
20:10:40 <Mic> Even though that will be hard to hit if you've got several screens aligned above each other and your mouse cursor doesn't stop at the screenborder
20:11:26 <flo> you'll change it with an add-on ;)
20:14:59 <skeledrew> snap. system's overheating again. gotta shut down...
20:15:43 <Mic> Check this out: http://mozillalabs.com/raindrop/
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20:16:01 <Mic> Second posting contains a video
20:17:01 <Mic> It's pulling out links, video links, (attachments in this case) from mails, twitter messages and such and displays them inline in the message
20:17:14 <Mic> With a thumbnail for the video for example
20:17:41 <Mic> Might be interesting for ... clokep and his content bin?
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20:22:58 <Mic> Who is Peer and why is he resetting connections ..? ;)
20:25:04 <flo> Mic: to annoy you :-P
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20:47:53 <Mic> 22:15:43 - Mic: Check this out: http://mozillalabs.com/raindrop/
20:47:53 <Mic> 22:15:47 - clokep_work left the room (quit: Connection reset by peer).
20:47:53 <Mic> 22:16:00 - Mic: Second posting contains a video
20:47:53 <Mic> 22:17:01 - Mic: It's pulling out links, video links, (attachments in this case) from mails, twitter messages and such and displays them inline in the message
20:47:54 <Mic> 22:17:15 - Mic: With a thumbnail for the video for example
20:47:54 <Mic> 22:17:41 - Mic: Might be interesting for ... clokep and his content bin?
20:48:09 <Mic> Sorry for spamming, I think you might be interested in this, clokep_work
20:48:30 <clokep_work> I'll check it out.
20:49:03 <clokep_work> Mic: I had an epiphany about it last night...now I can't remember. :)
20:52:36 <clokep_work> Mic: What I'm picturing in my head is similar to an experimental Thunderbird extension that I can't remember the name of...so. I'm gonna look it up when I get back to my apartment.
20:58:15 <clokep_work> Mic: I found it... https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Data_Miners http://hg.mozilla.org/users/bwinton_latte.ca/dataminers/summary
20:59:06 <clokep_work> I realized it could be for more then just images/videos, it could try to find things like phone #s, dates, times. Ever have that problem where you're making plans, decide on a time...then lose it as it scrolls offscreen?
21:00:53 <Mic> I was thinking about bookmarking lines in a conversation, something that you could easily jump at, but it would be a manual thing ofcourse
21:01:22 <clokep_work> That's a good idea too.
21:01:23 <Mic> Similiar to setting breakpoints in some IDE
21:01:35 <clokep_work> You should use the same UI too. :)
21:02:12 <clokep_work> But I like that idea, although using a "Star" people would probably be more comfortable w/, i.e. a "Favorite".
21:02:18 <Mic> The "extract anything" idea is good
21:02:57 <clokep_work> I've checked out the dataminers code previously, its pretty robust. But I have to get going. Work's over. Want to work out before dinner.
21:03:11 <clokep_work> Just ping clokep if you think of something else -- I'll read it when I'm home.
21:03:19 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:03:21 <Mic> flo: I think such things as examples would be great to display why Instantbird is a more powerful platform than other IM clients
21:05:16 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Client exited)
21:05:51 <flo> I'd like to extract addresses, and link to google map (or similar)
21:08:04 <Mic> Or even show a small map preview (cf videos, images, ..)?
21:08:47 <flo> yeah, maybe
21:09:01 <flo> I'm not sure if a thumbnail of a map is a meaningful image
21:28:22 <clokep> flo: But it looks cool. :)
21:28:49 <Mic> I think it can be .. the problem with "can be" is that you need to know which level of zoom is the right to give the user the clue where the adress is
21:29:35 * clokep Wishes I had some more time to work on hacking stuff.
21:29:38 <Mic> If he approximately knows where the adress is, a higher zoom level could reveal the bit he needs to know
21:30:01 <clokep> Mic: Would someplace like GMaps have a "good" zoom level anyway?
21:30:06 <Mic> If he doesn't a lower zoom level could point out the city for example. Unfortunately there's no way to know
21:30:47 <flo> or the country/continent ;)
21:31:03 <Mic> Omg, I just had a completely useless idea :P
21:31:15 <flo> cool :)
21:31:17 <clokep> *Wouldn't.
21:31:29 <Mic> Draw the map, in spherical coordinates
21:31:41 <clokep> What would that do for you?
21:31:58 <clokep> Just so you know there's a lot of different mapping schemes, they're kind of a pain to convert between. I did a lot of that last summer.
21:32:04 <Mic> Now apply a logarithmic mapping to the radius to draw the whole map with much detail in the center and larger scale farther out
21:32:17 <Mic> Unfortunately nobody would recognize anything on such a map :P
21:32:18 <flo> ahah
21:32:30 <clokep> Mic: That would actually be pretty awesome...but it'd be like one of those xkcd posters of the universe to scale.
21:32:35 <clokep> Cool, but yeah. Useless.
21:32:46 <flo> Mic: that's not a problem, the map was there to "look cool" in the first place :-P
21:32:49 <clokep> Mic: Although I'd be interested in seeing the output...to see if it /is/ useful.
21:32:51 <Mic> It could be worth to try maybe
21:33:05 <clokep> You would need an intense graphics library.
21:33:08 <Mic> Maybe it's the next big thing ;)
21:33:16 <Mic> why?
21:33:22 <flo> Mic: move to the US, and patent it! :)
21:33:39 <Mic> I could take a vector map for the beginning and try it on that
21:33:54 <Mic> I think it could be particularly easy to do using gnuplot
21:34:01 <clokep> Mic: Well if it were to smoothy scale I think you'd need some power to do it...
21:34:09 <clokep> Ah true, probably wouldn't be so bad w/ that.
21:34:23 <Mic> With some vector input for the beginning
21:34:36 <Mic> which might be available as svg maps on wikicommons
21:35:29 <Mic> no, maybe it would be better to stick to cartesian coordinates
21:35:40 <Mic> well, lets see
21:35:58 <clokep> Coordinates shouldn't really matter, its more about taking the circle once you have the images...
21:40:01 <Mic> I think they do in such a case
21:40:21 <Mic> Most likely even much
21:41:34 <clokep> Mic: Well the coordinates really would just give you a starting point and then you would zoom out?
21:41:50 <clokep> Although do oyu mean zoom out in such a way that the outermost thing is like "The Earth"? Then spherical would probably help you out.
21:42:41 <clokep> Mic: A good library to do things like this: http://www.gdal.org/
21:42:45 <Mic> Imagine a map with latidual lines being horizontally aligned and longitudinal lines being vertical
21:43:31 <Mic> Now applying the log will lead to points on same longitude still being on a vertical line
21:44:04 <Mic> While same latitde would still mean on a common horizontal line
21:44:32 <clokep> Mmhmm.
21:45:04 <Mic> Spherical coordinates in contrary would preserve "same distance from the center"
21:45:23 <clokep> True, I thought that's what you were going for.
21:46:36 <Mic> Depends on what the maps look like after that
21:49:49 <clokep> http://indiemaps.com/images/lensTool/hagerstrandLogarithmic.png
21:50:55 <clokep> Something like that, Mic? (Closest I could find...)
21:51:25 <Mic> yes, sort of
21:51:50 <Mic> I just did the cartesian thing with gnuplot
21:51:53 <flo> Good night. Have fun with maps! :)
21:51:58 <clokep> 'night.
21:52:09 <Mic> good night
21:52:18 <Mic> I'll off in a few minutes as well
21:54:41 <clokep> Goodnight Mic.
21:54:46 <clokep> I'll hold down the fort. ;)
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22:04:58 <Mic> ahem 
22:05:15 <Mic> 240 MB or gzipped vector are most likely too much for my needs
22:05:18 <Mic> *of
22:05:26 <Mic> *vector map data
22:12:39 <Mic> good night now
22:13:11 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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22:34:36 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
22:35:58 <skeledrew> hope it holds out longer this time...
22:37:42 --> skeledrew1 has joined #instantbird
22:37:49 <clokep> That'd be good.
22:38:11 <skeledrew1> yeah
22:39:09 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
22:41:10 <skeledrew1> am i still here? seeing a ping timeout, but room looks fine
22:41:59 <clokep> I think so?
22:42:07 <skeledrew1> oh
22:42:08 <skeledrew1> lol
22:42:13 <clokep> You're skeledrew1 though, not skeledrew.
22:42:23 <skeledrew1> really?
22:42:27 <skeledrew1> hmm
22:42:33 * skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew
22:42:44 <clokep> Must have lost contact for a second.
22:42:48 <skeledrew> could someone be using my name?
22:43:16 <clokep> No. It shows skeledrew, then skeledrew 1 entering, the skeledrew ping timeout.
22:43:22 <clokep> So you probably timed out and auto reconnected.
22:43:41 <skeledrew> oh
22:43:48 <skeledrew> but why was i renamed?
22:45:08 <clokep> Cause it thought that the other you was still connected.
22:45:39 <skeledrew> oh
22:45:43 <skeledrew> hmm
22:47:13 <skeledrew> the online log had the 2nd me logging in almost 2 minutes before the original timed out...
22:48:08 <clokep> Weird. I don't know, unless you're not you.
22:49:09 <skeledrew> i smell either a bug or another potential addon. cuz i didn't know my name changed. but at least i wasn't even aware if a break
22:49:13 <skeledrew> lol
22:49:34 <skeledrew> i only knew i was not me when the other me timed out...
22:50:01 <skeledrew> i didn't even see two of me in the list
22:51:40 <clokep> I an addon to automatically identify me to a nickserv.
22:52:14 <skeledrew> that too
23:05:49 <clokep> OK, now to see if I can realign these tabbars...
23:31:16 <clokep> Boo I got locked out of my account. :(
23:31:52 --> clokep_test has joined #instantbird
23:37:44 <skeledrew> lol
23:38:01 <-- clokep_test has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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23:40:43 <clokep_dev> Its getting there....hahah.
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