#instantbird log on 05 16 2010

All times are UTC.

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03:10:32 * Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK
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08:15:12 <Ruyan> It's possible to receive message only with javascript?
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08:29:08 <Roffle> but of a turd really since its not been updated
08:43:58 <Roffle> facebook plugin doesnt work
08:45:28 <Roffle> hello me on the .log
08:45:33 * Roffle takes a log
09:03:52 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:03:59 <Mic> hi
09:04:22 <Mic> Roffle: Facebook chat doesn't work for you?
09:05:36 <Mic> Ruyan: the version after the next should have support for protocol plugins written completely in javascript if that's what you mean
09:05:53 <Mic> There's already a js-proto branch
09:06:14 <Mic> Roffle: which version of Instantbird are you using?
09:09:29 <Ruyan> ee, just want sigin under javascript and then send message to any account, them if it's possible receive answer using javascript like acc.receive
09:18:43 <Mic> hmm, I'm not sure about receiving, but sending is pretty easy
09:20:24 <Mic> You need the conversation that you're want to talk in and do sendMsg(" ... ")
09:21:24 <Mic> If you've got a message object and want to respond
09:23:19 <Mic> there's also a reference to the conversation that the message belongs to so just you this then
09:23:55 <Mic> I'm not sure what's the best place to catch incoming messages though
09:25:05 <Mic> Do you want to dispatch messages completely automated and get rid of the conversation window completely?
09:25:27 <Mic> (e.g. forward "incoming mail" message via ICQ..?)
09:25:32 <Mic> *messages
09:35:08 <Mic> Ruyan: have a look at https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Notifications
09:36:10 <Ruyan> I don't want to create conversation window
09:36:37 <Mic> If you want to catch incoming conversations, then observe new-conversation and once you have it you should observe new-text as far as I can tell
09:36:45 <Ruyan> so if there is a function which catch incoming message
09:37:16 <Mic> hmm, frankly, I don't know
09:37:36 <Mic> It's just guesses but maybe it helps to find the right spot
09:39:13 <Ruyan> ok
09:40:05 <Mic> Have a look at imWindows.jsm in the modules directory
09:40:35 <Mic> Around line 300 there's the observer stuff for new-text, new-conversation, ...
09:42:19 <Ruyan> and what return window.arguments[0], have seen is many times
09:42:57 <Mic> Can you give an example?
09:44:36 <Ruyan> maybe it's return the first object in the window, like this.account=window.arguments[0]
09:46:37 <Mic> arguments is an array holding the arguments passed to a function
09:47:46 <Mic> Afaik you can only access own arguments to newly opened windows by adding the at the end of the call and since they're not named, you need to use "arguments" to access them
09:48:20 <Mic> I'm sorry, I need to go now
09:48:26 <Ruyan> thx
09:48:28 <Mic> Good luck
10:14:50 <Roffle> is instant bird portable by default?
10:16:11 <Mic> I've got very little time, but in a way yes:
10:16:33 <Roffle> are you going to die ? :(
10:16:50 <Mic> Nope, preparing a barbecue for lunch ;)
10:17:02 <Roffle> enjoy the bowel movements later ;)
10:17:34 <Mic> Copy the program to the memory stick and add a short cut that sets the profile folder to something on the stick
10:17:44 <Mic> I guess using relative path names is best
10:18:01 <Roffle> oh so running it straight away has stuck some crap in c:/ then ?
10:18:17 <Mic> It will create a folder in Application Data
10:18:30 <Roffle> uugh!
10:18:31 <Mic> The profile containing extensions/log files/ .. is placed there
10:18:43 <Roffle> another reason i hate windows
10:18:59 <Mic> well, on Linux it will use the Home directory instead :P
10:19:24 <Roffle> in the good ole days, programs would use progdir: ;)
10:19:43 <Mic> Use the %appdata% environment variable on Windows to go to the right folder
10:20:04 <Roffle> i wouldnt know where to get the env var
10:20:04 <Mic> You find the Instantbird folder there
10:20:22 <Mic> Type %appdata% in the location bar of Explorer or the "Run"-window
10:20:32 <Mic> It will expand like using ~ on Linux
10:20:45 <Roffle> isnt that kinky
10:20:50 <Roffle> enjoy your BBQ I need a shit
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10:46:32 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 419 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
10:46:33 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de added attachment 312 to bug 419.
10:46:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tooltips sometime not disappearing when changing tasks
12:09:41 <Ruyan> evyry methods in the instantbird javascript is necessaly? or some of them I can ignore, like when I want create account, just register CoreService and call createAccount()
12:18:10 <Mic> Why don't you try? ;)
12:19:05 <Mic> I mean: there's plenty of stuff taking care of animating logons and logoffs on the buddylist, stuff that's related to conversations UI and so on
12:20:28 <Mic> you won't need these if you're not having any windows anyways
12:28:28 <Mic> Ruyan: do you need anything of the Instantbird UI or are you just interested in libpurple with a scriptable interface?
12:29:09 <Ruyan> second one
12:30:03 <Ruyan> I'm interested in libpurple with interface
12:31:29 <Ruyan> I need login, show buddy list, conversation and create/delete account
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20:39:13 <Mic> flo: I saw this today: https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/file/371e17562c99/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#l150
20:40:01 <Mic> Isn't the set of possible platforms quite limited (only 1.9.2.* or such?)
20:40:23 <flo> Debien uses 1.9.1
20:40:26 <flo> *Debian
20:41:19 <flo> for 0.3, 1.9.2 will be the minimum, and maybe even 1.9.3 :) (depending on how soon we want to release 0.3)
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20:56:21 <flo> displaying the nicklist is still *very* slow on #ubuntu :(
21:00:26 <Mic> Cut Ubuntu support then :P
21:00:42 <Mic> ups, ..
21:00:54 <flo> still frozen...
21:00:57 <Mic> I missed the sharp :D
21:01:08 <flo> well, it's on Ubuntu too :-D
21:02:25 <flo> I wish I had Shark on Ubuntu
21:03:03 <Mic> What's Shark?
21:03:09 <flo> the profiler on Mac OS X
21:03:56 <flo> it makes it very easy to know how an application spends its CPU time while it's frozen
21:05:41 <flo> hmm, the extreme slowness seems to come from nsXULListboxAccessible
21:06:07 <flo> so, how do I disable accessibility support? :-P
21:07:45 <flo> ok, without the accessibility support it takes only a few seconds
21:07:56 <Mic> How did you disable it?
21:08:17 <flo> System->Preferences->Assistive Technologies
21:09:39 <flo> the add-on I've almost finished: http://queze.net/goinfre/shownick2.png
21:15:13 <Mic> That's interesting
21:15:23 <Mic> Are the nicknames clickable?
21:15:28 <flo> no
21:15:43 <flo> what should a click on a nick do?
21:16:27 <Mic> Either a reply to the one as well or maybe opening a conversation to send a private message
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21:19:49 <flo> hmm, maybe the "reply to nick" add-on should be adapted to detect the nick tags
21:20:06 <flo> for now both of these add-ons are still experiments :)
21:23:24 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/shownick-1.0.xpi (source code: https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/repos/rev/209f9c6e190e)
21:24:03 * flo restarts to install on the 'default' profile
21:24:07 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre)
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21:24:17 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
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21:25:35 <Mic> flo: test
21:26:12 <flo> Mic: there's a know issue: the nick is not highlighted in the "Mic [Mic@moz-5916088.superkabel.de] entered the room." line
21:26:36 <Mic> It doesn't go well with the simple theme
21:27:13 <flo> if I want that to work, I've got to put the line 1721 before the line 1701 in this file: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/conversation.c#1718
21:29:43 * flo tries the simple theme
21:30:22 <flo> it's not perfect, but it's not a disaster either :)
21:30:29 <Mic> I use the simple theme because it' simple and not fancy at all
21:31:21 <flo> I try to always use the "default" settings, so that we don't keep insane defaults for too long :).
21:32:31 <flo> by the way, I use the "time bubbles" message theme.
21:32:32 <Mic> Maybe add a choice to either add the bubbles or just print names in bold font (and colored?)
21:32:54 <Mic> I'm referring to the nick-bubbles here ofcourse
21:33:20 <flo> well. If we decide that we want this feature by default at some point, we will need to make it work for all themes
21:33:34 <flo> so it will need to set classes on the span element instead of using style=
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21:38:38 <Mic> Sorry, I think it's not exactly my thing ;)
21:39:14 <flo> the nick bubbles?
21:39:36 <Mic> Yes
21:39:45 <flo> if it's just a matter of theming of the bubbles, you can change https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/repos/rev/209f9c6e190e#l2.116 and type "make" ;)
21:42:27 <Mic> sure
21:43:25 <Mic> I'm just not sure what features I'd like to have on my conversation content area
21:43:40 <flo> that's the whole point of experiments ;)
21:43:54 <Mic> I think something like the simple theme but with a separate column for dates and nicks
21:44:11 <Mic> So long lines don't wrap into this area
21:44:19 <Mic> *times
21:44:51 <Mic> The shownick-feature is nice indeed
21:47:17 <flo> thanks :)
21:47:31 <Mic> Something to try for the Time-message theme: fade messages that lie farther back in time instead of adding spacing
21:47:43 <Mic> They have to stay readable ofcourse ..
21:48:10 <Mic> Maybe current messages having full colour and older ones are becoming more and more greyscaled
21:48:43 <flo> and fadding starts only when you switch to the tab and make the message visibles
21:49:00 <flo> this way, you don't have to look for "what was the last thing I've already read?", it's very visible
21:49:16 <Mic> Ofcourse it would take updating the state from time to time
21:49:43 <Mic> yes, for 'acknowledged messages' only
21:50:47 <flo> by the way, I don't think it's "instead of adding spacing", but "in addition to". The space difference is meant to show if/when messages arrived almost at the same time. The fadding would only help to see how old a message is.
21:52:22 <Mic> I'm not sure I understand what you mean with the first part
21:53:25 <flo> what I mean with "show if/when messages arrived almost at the same time" ?
21:54:00 <Mic> yes
21:54:37 <flo> this is to address the usage of seconds in timestamps
21:55:33 <flo> the only valid/common use that I've found for reading the seconds in timestamp is to answer the questions "was this message written after having read my message, or was it written before, and sent more or less at the same time before seeing my message."
21:55:58 <flo> assuming that people are replying to a message that they haven't seen yet is responsible for a lot of confusion in IM conversations
22:01:15 <Mic> hmm, in such cases I really count the seconds to tell if someone could have read something or not
22:01:33 <Mic> I know sure if counting pixels would be easier, though :P
22:01:40 <Mic> *I'm not sure 
22:01:57 <flo> how do you "count the seconds"?
22:02:02 <flo> are you reading each timestamp?
22:02:18 <Mic> I'm comparing timestamps in such cases
22:02:57 <flo> reading the numeric value in the timestamps (slow operation for a human) is what I'm trying to avoid, and replace with seeing distances (very easy to assess quickly)
22:04:04 <Mic> I'm not sure if seeing distances is really reliable
22:04:13 <flo> it's a bit like pauses in oral language. When someone replies as soon as you stop talking, or sometimes even before you really stop, you know (without having to count the time) that the person hasn't considered what you have said
22:04:20 <Mic> I assume that *comparing* distances is far more reliable
22:05:24 <flo> if you look at them and try to compare them, then it failed. The whole point is that it should work at the emotion level. Do you feel that the messages are packed together, or is there a lot of space between them?
22:05:59 <flo> if it feels like there's just "enough" space, then you feel confident that the person is likely to have read the message
22:12:00 <Mic> I rarely wonder if someone read a message at all
22:12:19 <Mic> Usually I try to see how long someone thought about an answer ;)
22:12:33 <Mic> Anyways, it's late
22:12:41 <flo> yeah, good night :)
22:12:42 <Mic> Good night
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22:13:05 <flo> (those 2 messages appear packed, for example :-P)
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