#instantbird log on 03 14 2010

All times are UTC.

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01:04:21 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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01:19:32 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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01:55:58 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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05:38:38 <Amfi> Good morning :)
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11:42:05 <Amfi> away, busy, dnd, back and offline commands usable from all conversations for quick status changes.
11:42:25 <Amfi> flo: will there be a chance to get those (and any future commands) also localized?
11:44:48 <flo> hmm
11:45:06 <flo> it's something we need to think about
11:45:42 <Amfi> not only are they in english but they are also not understandable for an average polish user
11:46:20 <flo> and they are not discoverable for an average user, whichever country he is from
11:47:23 <Amfi> as long as you keep them simple. however, later on you may introduce more commands which may get more complicated
11:49:04 <Amfi> while using localized version of IB, 80% of users won't be aware of those commands only because they are in english
11:49:36 <Amfi> anyway, i'm leaving you with that problem - it's not up to me, however, i will insist on a full localization ;)
11:50:21 <flo> I understand your point of view
11:50:35 <flo> meaningless strings are almost impossible to remember
11:50:49 <flo> it's a bit the same problem for keyboard shortcuts
11:51:02 <Amfi> on the other hand, commands in windows cmd or linux console are also left as in original
11:51:07 <flo> does it make sense to have Ctrl+f (f = find) for the findbar in localized builds ?
11:51:32 <flo> is it worse to change it to something meaningful, knowing that other applications on the system will still use the Ctrl+f binding
11:51:37 <Amfi> true, we already got used to it
11:52:57 <Amfi> but... as long as crtl+f or ctrl+s are used in fx, ms word or notepad++, away and dnd strings will be solely used in IB
11:53:04 <flo> I'm always annoyed when I use a localized (in French) build when some of the keyboard shortcuts (and more general whatever commands I type with the keyboard) change
11:53:33 <flo> but I guess it's not relevant, as the average user is unlikely to use several locales of the same application
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11:54:18 <flo> would it be an interesting option to have both the english string and a localized string work for each command?
11:54:20 <Amfi> Wareczek! Now we've got a polish domination on irc ;)
11:54:27 <flo> or is it just adding more mess?
11:54:41 <Wareczek> :P
11:54:51 <Amfi> i believe it's the matter of getting used to an application
11:54:52 <flo> Amfi: there are at least 3 french people here ;)
11:55:21 <Wareczek> where is DawPi? :D
11:55:31 <Amfi> if you will leave it in english, after a while people will find it strange to have them in polish
11:55:51 <Amfi> and vice versa: if you translate them, nobody is going to use english commands
11:56:19 <Amfi> yeah, french peaople are either still sleeping or eating croissants for breakfast :P
11:56:44 <flo> or voting
11:56:48 <Amfi> Wareczek: could you get a glimps in the logs and write you opinion about those commands?
11:56:52 <flo> (election day today...)
11:57:03 <Wareczek> Amfi: ok, wait.
11:57:10 <Amfi> president or parliament?
11:57:29 <Amfi> no, sarkozy was elected not so far ago
11:57:42 <flo> regional
11:57:50 <Amfi> even better :)
12:00:59 <Wareczek> sorry Amfi but I think that commands should be only in english
12:01:37 <Amfi> you break my heart :(
12:01:59 <Wareczek> do you know any project with localized commands? :P
12:02:15 <Amfi> how many people in poland, you think, are aware of the dnd shortcut?
12:02:15 <flo> Amfi: heh. I tend to agree that full localization is nice. Especially of the "user facing" strings.
12:02:41 <flo> Wareczek: excel. And that's totally stupid to write localized stuff in formulas...
12:03:24 <Wareczek> There should be any help window where in Polish we can describe this commands
12:03:29 <flo> Amfi: there are 2 user facing strings that are not localizable, and it annoys me because they are the 2 very first visible strings on Windows
12:03:51 <flo> "Extracting..." and "Cancel" in the very first window that pops up when starting the installer.
12:05:02 <Amfi> But I guess all applications using that kind of installer are doomed for those strings..
12:05:15 <Amfi> or maybe it has never annoyed me before
12:05:34 <flo> in my opinion, that's clearly a bug
12:06:04 <Amfi> a bug that you may fix or you need to wait for mozilla's devs?
12:06:19 <flo> what's the difference?
12:06:36 <flo> it's a mozilla bug
12:06:46 <flo> but if I want to spend (waste?) time on this, I can do something about it...
12:06:50 <Amfi> i'm not sure how it works, IB is my first project related to mozilla ;)
12:07:08 <flo> I spent quite a bit of time on Firefox before
12:07:29 <flo> enough to earn commit access on the code repository
12:07:42 <flo> when a mozilla bug is very annoying for Instantbird, I tend to fix it myself if I can
12:08:29 <Amfi> good to know :>
12:08:53 <flo> the bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=260914
12:09:05 <Amfi> Wareczek: I believe there will be a documentaion created in the later phaze where we will be able to include all ambigiousities
12:09:52 <flo> I think we won't ship a lot of "help" stuff inside the application.
12:10:13 <flo> but there should be a support website with relevant answers for whatever questions may have
12:10:16 <Amfi> you want to leave everything on the website?
12:10:22 <Amfi> ah, ok
12:10:36 <flo> and it would make sense to let localizers translate the pages that are of significant interest for people in their locales
12:11:12 <Wareczek> more job, jupi :D
12:11:12 <flo> (it probably makes no sense to translate answers to GaduGadu questions in french, and netsoul questions in polish...)
12:11:56 <Amfi> you're not using gadu-gadu in france? :o
12:12:06 <flo> by the way, nice job on http://instantbird.pl/ :)
12:12:25 <Amfi> :)
12:12:31 <flo> Amfi: is it a real question?
12:12:58 <Amfi> heh, just a not-so-funny joke ;)
12:13:24 <flo> I guess people who have polish relatives use it
12:13:38 <Amfi> oh definitely
12:13:50 <flo> or these polish relatives use MSN
12:14:03 <Amfi> even i am forced to use it day-to-day here, in nl
12:14:48 <Amfi> msn is not really popular in poland, we've got a monopoly of gadu-gadu there..
12:14:49 <flo> oh, so the pl localization is in part made from nl? :-D
12:15:01 <Amfi> and users like Wareczek - looking for alternatives ;)
12:15:23 <Amfi> Sure! However, i'm not gonna touch the dutch version!
12:15:47 <flo> the french locale is made by someone who lives in the USA ;)
12:15:59 <Wareczek> I'm not looking for alternative :P I'm looking for translations to make :D
12:16:06 <Amfi> i thought it was your job..
12:16:32 <Amfi> Wareczek: what is the most frequent im protocol you tend to use?
12:16:35 <flo> the french locale?
12:16:41 <Amfi> yeah
12:16:53 <flo> no, I live in France so I make the en-US version :-P
12:16:59 <Wareczek> Amfi: XMPP
12:17:37 <Amfi> flo: that makes a perfect sense!
12:18:01 <Amfi> Wareczek: you see? I've just said you were strange :P
12:18:11 <flo> (Amfi: I proof-read the french locale though.)
12:18:49 <Amfi> i know that kind of mentoring... Wareczek reads everyting i translate :>
12:19:42 <flo> more eyeballs looking at the strings improves the overall quality of the translations :)
12:20:08 <Amfi> let's hope so
12:21:19 <flo> in the case of the french locale, it also makes me find bugs in original version
12:21:46 <flo> "hey, this french string makes no sense". "hmm... wait, the en-US doesn't either..." "ok, let's fix!" ;)
12:22:02 <Amfi> haha, great!
12:22:56 <flo> we had a hard time trying to translate the string "only basic formattings" (in the Content tab of the prefwindow)
12:23:09 <Amfi> oh btw, if you started with en-US labeling, shouldn't we receive the pl-PL installer?
12:23:20 <Wareczek> Amif: no
12:23:31 <Wareczek> "pl" is right form
12:24:04 <Amfi> flo: i guess we translated the corrected version..
12:24:30 <Amfi> Wareczek: in ipb we use pl_PL after all
12:24:56 <Wareczek> because it's up to regional versions of languages. English has US, GB, AU and Polish have no regionals
12:25:19 <Amfi> what about kashebian?
12:25:54 <Wareczek> you know their lang code? :P
12:26:05 <Amfi> google is your friend!
12:26:37 * flo just requested from buildbot a second release candidates of 0.2b2
12:27:14 <Amfi> flo: i;ve checked that formatting - we have put just 'Basic (bold [...])' in the drop-down list
12:27:29 <flo> :)
12:28:43 <Amfi> Wareczek: instantbird-0.2b2.pl-CSB.win32
12:30:05 <Wareczek> where?
12:31:08 <Amfi> not yet, however, it will be soon. Let me first learn their lang ;)
12:37:34 <Amfi> what will be a difference between rc1 and rc2?
12:39:26 <Amfi> i'm not sure when rc1 was released..
12:42:55 <Wareczek> you have rc1 on your mail box :P
12:43:50 <flo> Wareczek: no
12:43:56 <Wareczek> no? :(
12:44:06 <Amfi> on the mailbox is the first polish build..
12:44:16 <Amfi> rc1 was a day or two earlier
12:44:24 <flo> the build I emailed was a build that I produced myself and that looked more like a nightly
12:44:40 <Wareczek> ok
12:45:13 <flo> the differences between rc1 and rc2 are a few bug fixes, and all the needed build system changes so that we can produce localized builds.
12:46:37 <Amfi> mhm, meaning that the 0.2b2 should be released next weekend?
12:46:38 <flo> hm, the only bug fixed was bug 368
12:46:42 <instantbot> flo: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368 nor, --, 0.2b2, florian, REOP, Context menu items displaced
12:47:18 <flo> Amfi: it could be sooner
12:47:53 <flo> if nothing goes wrong, probably Tuesday
12:48:58 <Amfi> nice... although i'm still not able to use it for gadu ;)
12:49:07 <flo> :(
12:49:18 <Wareczek> me too
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12:56:28 <tymerkaev-afk> Hello
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12:58:04 <Wareczek> yo
13:00:42 <Wareczek> ok I must go. have a nice day :D
13:01:05 <tymerkaev> Warech
13:01:09 <tymerkaev> ysorry
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13:10:13 * Mic shivers at the thought of localized commands...
13:11:20 <Mic> Likely other users might think differently
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16:22:23 <Morian> wow waterfall has a nice css
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16:47:29 <DGMurdockIII> waterfall?
16:47:49 <Morian> buildbots
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17:17:51 <Ruyan> Components.classes["@instantbird.org/purple/core;1"] means which file? core.h from libpurple or purpleCoreService.h from purplexpcom/src
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17:20:46 <DGMurdockIII> scruption
17:20:53 <DGMurdockIII> opps
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17:25:06 <flo> Ruyan: purpleCoreService.cpp
17:25:14 <Mic> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleCoreService.h#121
17:25:38 <Ruyan> so it's not a problem with libpurple
17:30:34 <Ruyan> it's possible to compile purplexpcom separately
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17:46:29 <flo> arg, my ubuntu is 64bit, it doesn't work to repack the 32bit release candidates :(
17:51:13 <flo> ok, --target=i686-pc-linux and configure thinks I'm on a 32bits machine :)
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18:17:47 <Chaz6> I am using multiple profiles, is it possible to install themes/extensions into the instantbird program folder so i don't have duplicates?
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18:20:47 <Ruyan> How can I compile purplexpcom separately
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18:37:12 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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18:50:43 <Mic> Morian: congratulations on your permanent half-op status ;)
18:55:18 <Chaz6> Is it possible to make the scrollbar in the message window tab have a transparent background, so the theme shows through?
18:55:31 <Chaz6> s/tab//
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18:59:45 <flo> I don't think so.
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19:49:16 <flo> Chaz: hmm, a specific message theme could do it.
19:49:31 <flo> with overflow:hidden, and a custom scrollbar working using javascript.
19:49:44 <flo> very ugly though :-S
19:54:44 <Chaz6> Hmm okay
19:56:39 <flo> hmm
19:56:49 <flo> removing that scrollbar could be a nice way to save space :)
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22:43:33 <flo> good night! :)
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