#instantbird log on 02 23 2010

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07:43:44 <flo> hi :)
07:44:25 <flo> I think I'd like to have an addon adding a button in the buddy list (or a keyboard shortcut) doing: check for update, download update, restart & install the update, with a single click and no popup.
07:45:03 <flo> maybe the progress of the download could be displayed in the status bar (it's empty for now... and maybe in a second status bar once the first one is used for the accounts)
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09:12:14 <Ruyan> Hi flo, I have question, how can I use everything in purplexpcom for my project, just copy all of them(compiled files) to my project under folder chrome? or I need to do something else?
09:12:52 <flo> not under chrome, keep the same directory structure as in instantbird
09:13:25 <flo> you need at least the file purple.dll/libpurple.so from the application dir, and purplexpcom.xpt+purplexpcom.dll/libpurplexpcom.so from the components/ dir
09:13:35 <Ruyan> but where is purpleloader.cpp after compile? i can't find it
09:13:46 <flo> it's never used
09:13:56 <flo> it was used a very long time ago
09:14:01 <Ruyan> aha
09:15:05 <Ruyan> and xpt files under public its used to connect to libpurple, yes?
09:15:46 <flo> you should probably read documentation about the way xpcom components work and are used in a mozilla application
09:21:21 <Ruyan> yes, i'm reading that
09:22:20 <Ruyan> I didn't read that chapter yet.
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10:23:32 <Mic> hi!
11:06:04 <Mic> flo: you complained about the missing away/unavailable message that suggested what sort of message to enter here 
11:06:14 <Mic> *there
11:07:16 <Mic> Using the same approach as on some websites, we could put a (e.g. grey) message there what to do which is removed as soon as you click the input field
11:07:45 <flo> Mic: I thought about it.
11:08:01 <flo> We can't, because we focus the field automatically, so this text would never be visible
11:08:24 <Mic> You've got a point there
11:08:49 <flo> (but that's unfortunate ;))
11:12:18 <Mic> Input fields with hints would be a nice thing in general .. 
11:12:45 <Mic> Maybe I'll do an overlay for input fields and check out what it feels like e.g. having it on the account wizard
11:17:57 <flo> just use <textbox emptytext="Type something here please"/>
11:18:07 <flo> that's what is used in Firefox for the location bar and the search box
11:18:26 <flo> on the account wizard we have the same problem: the username textbox is focused by default
11:18:40 <flo> (we wanted to put there a message like "email address" or "ICQ number"
11:19:55 <Mic> oh, it's there already.
11:20:33 <Mic> I'm not sure if "emailadress" or "ICQ number" would be a good thing to put there .. usually the label says as much
11:21:16 <Mic> Maybe something like an example to see the pattern of the input would be better (as long as people can't confuse it with actual input)
11:21:55 <Mic> "Example: user@website.tld" or "Example: 147258369"
11:24:04 <Mic> off for lunch now, ttyl
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11:47:06 <iLobster> Greetings
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12:33:09 <Chaz6> Salutations
13:05:35 <Mic> re
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14:57:35 * flo wonders what are the key features that are still missing in Instantbird that we should add before trying to have more users
14:58:49 <Chaz6> Group modificatsions - create/delete/rename/move contacts
14:58:54 <Chaz6> *modifications
15:01:25 <Mic> Key features with respect to what?
15:01:36 <Mic> Functionality? Usability?
15:02:17 <flo> I don't know. The things that would cause the reaction "Instantbird could be cool but ... is missing."
15:02:20 <Mic> Prerequisites in general (ie an infrastructure to support many users (cf updates and such))?
15:02:33 <flo> I know Voice and Video is one of these features, but it's way to complicated to implement in the near future
15:03:35 <Mic> Pidgin solution:
15:03:37 <Mic>  if you like voice and video support, feel free to add it.
15:04:05 <flo> Mic: no.
15:04:21 <Mic> I wasn't serious
15:04:22 <flo> Pidgin's solution is "Pidgin is done by volunteers, if you don't like it, go away."
15:04:52 <flo> It's a valid solution. Except it's not the one we want for Instantbird...
15:05:57 <flo> ah, there's probably that systray thing for Windows.
15:06:27 <Mic> Not key functionality but a nice idea (addon?): show message notifications a little longer (give users a chance to reach it) and add a way to send an immediate response without having to go to the chat window (one line of input field right below the message or something like that)
15:07:03 <flo> That's a nice addon idea.
15:07:36 <flo> I know Digsby is marketing that feature (that in my personal opinion is a mis-feature), and people will probably want it here too
15:08:28 <Chaz6> I don't want it personally, i find it annoying
15:08:31 <flo> I guess there are some interesting use cases even though I don't like the general idea
15:09:55 <Mic> For what reason?
15:10:38 <flo> for what reason I don't like it?
15:10:56 <flo> because it's "promoting" too many interruptions via invading popups
15:13:16 <Mic> What's worse about this compared to a simple notification popup?
15:13:28 <Mic> The latter is equivally distracting imo
15:13:53 <Mic> *equally
15:13:58 <flo> I don't like simple notification popups either
15:14:28 <flo> (though it's less horrible when it uses an OS-wide notification system which is tweaked to the user's needs)
15:23:12 <Mic> I don't mind notifications but I agree that a uniform solution is absolutely preferrable
15:23:48 <flo> actually, the thing that really sucks about notification (even the sounds from the buddy list), is when it notifies me about something I couldn't care less about
15:24:24 <Mic> Frankly I don't like skinned programs for exactly this reason: I don't want to have applications look different from each other (and some oh-so-great extra UI elements that you've never seen before)
15:24:37 <flo> I think for 0.3 we will try to teach Instantbird how to be intelligent about that, and "guess" what events are valuable information and what's noise.
15:25:30 <Mic> I've read a scientific article/paper about distraction and how to minimize its effects
15:26:04 <flo> there are dozens of articles on that topic
15:26:16 <flo> were the conclusions of the one you read interesting? :)
15:26:57 <Mic> One of the things was to let a sound notification precede a visual notification because it gives the user a chance to sort of memorize the current situation before being visually distracted to the popup
15:27:31 <Mic> I think libnotify does such a thing now that I think about it
15:43:51 <flo> are there people here who are (still) using another IM client? What do they miss in current nightlies?
15:51:47 <Chaz6> Meta contacts is another big thing i miss
15:52:14 <flo> I miss it too
15:56:26 <flo> hmm, any idea of how we could get a "representative" idea of the answer to these questions? I'm almost sure it depends a lot on which IM client you were using before
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17:54:20 <iLobster> About that popup message notifications - in past notification addon there was an option to show/notshow buddy icon in popup notification - so user was able to make own desicion is he want to see icons in popups or not.
17:55:54 <Chaz6> yes that could be useful
17:56:02 <iLobster> So i vote for return of this option. It may be logo of Instatnbird instead of buddy icons or some random pictores like in Songbird song notofoer addon.
17:56:45 <iLobster> my typing skill is bad today =)
17:57:17 <iLobster> *that was "song notifier"
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22:48:41 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/0d113aa4a1f7 - Florian Quèze - Remove no longer needed (because of the changes from bug 535369) patch.
22:48:43 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/b256d8544bc5 - Florian Quèze - Rework idle and auto-away features.
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22:48:43 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
22:48:43 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
22:49:37 <Chaz6> phew, nice checking :)
22:49:40 <Chaz6> -g
22:50:00 <flo> ah?
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23:00:16 <Mic> nn
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23:32:31 <flo> good night