#instantbird log on 02 20 2010

All times are UTC.

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10:14:59 <Mic> hi
10:40:39 <flo> hi :)
10:42:37 * flo is trying to do a linux build based on the mozilla trunk (gecko 1.9.3a2pre)
10:53:07 <flo> ok, I need the comm-central patch of "Bug 531135 -  race condition with lock files in build-list.pl (components.list.lck: Permission denied, all-test-dirs.list.lck: Permission denied)"
10:58:35 <tymerkaev_> flo: only linux build?
10:58:57 <flo> it's just a test
10:59:04 <flo> so yes, I've got to start somewhere
10:59:23 <flo> and my linux machine is the fastests (it builds in less than 10 minutes)
11:42:41 <Morian> linux is always the fastest to build, mac os second and windows far away (in a far galaxy)
11:47:03 <Mic> A "How to use" flash video for a Firefox extension, announced as "Great animated flash tutorial" on the wiki of the extension:
11:47:10 <Mic> http://www.programwitch.com/Flash/sage/sage.html
11:47:15 <Mic> ahhheem.
11:47:51 <Mic> Ofcourse, it's not official, but anyways ..
11:49:06 <Mic> Using a cluttered UI (other extensions/toolbars/bookmarks visible..) and colorful/distracting webpages doesn't really help imo :S
11:49:48 <Mic> This just as a please-don't-do ;)
12:01:27 * flo has thousands of linker errors floading his terminal
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13:56:53 <rnr> 10:42:37 * flo is trying to do a linux build based on the mozilla trunk (gecko 1.9.3a2pre) :D (must be chaos??)
13:57:19 <flo> rnr: after a small fix, it works
13:57:54 <flo> but I'm playing with the patch from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525013 so... doesn't work so well :)
13:57:54 <rnr> wow
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13:58:15 <iLobster> Greetings
13:58:52 <rnr> Hello iLobster!!
14:00:50 <Mic> oh, Pidgin does animations using a set of separate png files .. 
14:01:00 <flo> animation of what?
14:01:59 <Mic> Connecting icons, "working" (similiar to the loading icon on Ff/connecting icon on the account manager of Ib)
14:02:20 <flo> ah
14:02:23 <Mic> Typing notification and so on..
14:02:44 <Mic> I'm glad we have (the non-standard though) apng
14:02:47 <flo> they don't know yet the joy of using APNG :)
14:03:09 <flo> I'm glad we will have CSS transitions soon! ;)
14:03:25 <rnr> some of my friends are still using gif :(
14:03:44 <flo> rnr: bah... if they need IE6 compatibility... ;)
14:05:29 <iLobster> i have a question: when instantbird connecting to server (gmail or jabber), it take buddies list from server or from blist.sqlite in profile?
14:07:03 <flo> both I think
14:07:27 <flo> and it probably fails to do some kind of synchronisation
14:07:55 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:New_IRC_icons.png
14:08:16 <Mic> Just a suggestion for IRC (h)op icons
14:08:47 * flo sets mode +h Mic 
14:08:50 <Mic> Morian got promoted to half-op to show the silver half op icon
14:08:56 <flo> Mic: should help you for your screenshots :-D
14:13:40 <Mic> thanks .. even though I can just copy the icons if I like ;)
14:14:35 * flo wonders if "less pidgin-ish;)" is a good argument :-D
14:16:01 <Even> Always is.
14:16:10 <Even> I can assure you that at least :P
14:16:38 <flo> Even's law: "less pidgin-ish is better" :)
14:17:03 <Even> Nop : "No pidgin-ish is a cause!"
14:17:10 <Even> :P
14:20:18 <iLobster> I've noticed that when i have "buddy" in blist.sqlite which is not presented in my buddy list on server (in my case becouse of "strange" prohibition about not to have me as buddy in my own contact list in gmail and jabber) - that my custom "buddy" dissapear from list of contacts visile in instantbird window (both from online and ofline buddies) until i disconnect from server.
14:20:23 <iLobster> But if i first switch to "show offline buddies" mode - that "custom me" do not dissapear from list. I know that is stupid, but i've noticed it. =)
14:20:51 <iLobster> * if i first switch to "show offline buddies" mode before connect to server
14:21:37 <flo> yeah, failed synchronisation :)
14:21:54 <flo> we don't save in blist.sqlite when the server says a buddy has been removed from the list
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14:43:35 <Mic> flo: ahem, frankly there are no arguments beside "looks nicer in my eyes" 
14:44:02 <flo> :)
14:45:25 <Morian> ahah, I was wondering what was this % besides of "Mic"
14:45:50 <DGMurdockIII> hi is this bug fix yet
14:45:51 <DGMurdockIII> Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [purpleITag.removeObserver]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://instantbird/content/group.xml :: _animateCollapse :: line 254" data: no]
14:46:05 <Mic> I've been caught - you noticed my first step to world domination ;)
14:46:16 <Morian> haha
14:46:34 <Morian> you are half the way to dominate the world :)
14:47:03 <DGMurdockIII> bug #1 for instantbird shold be be the # 1 multi IM program
14:47:06 <instantbot> DGMurdockIII: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 nor, P5, ---, idechix, NEW, Make bugzilla.instantbird.org look like other instantbird websites
14:47:07 <flo> DGMurdockIII: no. I can't reproduce it
14:47:28 <Mic> flo: about your icon issue on the status bar:
14:47:30 <flo> DGMurdockIII: are you taking inspiration from Ubuntu? :)
14:47:41 <flo> Mic: which icon issue? The background color? Should be fixed
14:47:56 <Mic> no, the missing icon with the checkmark
14:47:59 <flo> ah
14:48:04 <DGMurdockIII> well iv seen ubuntu have have that goal and videolan
14:48:21 <DGMurdockIII> videolan lan i saw theres first
14:48:30 <Mic> Maybe you can work around using a panel instead of a menu
14:49:56 <Mic> or replace the icon instead of using a checkmark
14:50:53 <flo> or just find which CSS rule removes my icon...
14:52:04 <DGMurdockIII> if you right click on a buddy name then click show offline budies
14:52:51 <DGMurdockIII> then disable showing offline buddies that when you get the error i posted
14:53:12 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/winstripe/global/menu.css#252
14:53:31 <flo> DGMurdockIII: I don't.
14:53:44 <flo> that's what I meant when I said "I can't reproduce it"
14:54:11 <flo> I suspect it's related to a partial failure of a buddy move between groups
14:57:44 <Mic> flo: ok, I haven*t thought of this solution :)
14:58:42 <rnr> been a pidgin user for a couple of years but I'm already liking instantbird better :D
14:59:00 <flo> Mic: copying the "solution" used on the Mac stylesheet seems like an interesting way to start: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/pinstripe/global/menu.css#199
15:01:21 <flo> ah, but the check mark may be taken from the native OS theme :-/
15:04:44 <flo> are these images acceptable: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/winstripe/global/checkbox/ ?
15:05:44 <Mic> Looks 'native' to me
15:06:02 <flo> will it look native on Win7?
15:06:08 <Mic> I have no idea ..
15:06:30 <Mic> shouldn't there be a theme for Win 7 / Aero as well?
15:06:52 <flo> (I would tend to think "ugly" means native for Windows, but lots of users are likely to think differently :))
15:08:24 <Mic> No, ugly is reserved for Pidgin and GTK applications :P 
15:08:33 <Even> flo: You're going to start a brand new Windows vs Others troll with that. You should refrain from those "troll-perfect" sentences :P
15:08:44 <Even> Mic: well said!
15:09:03 <Even> Mic: saldy, it refers to Ib on Linux...
15:09:22 <flo> Even: on Ubuntu it's "native"
15:09:42 <Even> lol, it's a way of seeing it even though it's not true.
15:09:48 <flo> heh, maybe you should try to see if we can build it with QT :)
15:10:18 <Even> GTK can't be native since it's build on top of X Windows.
15:10:28 <flo> heh, my static build works!
15:10:39 <Even> But to have a "native" theme you'll basically have to use GTK...
15:10:42 <Even> Hate X...
15:10:59 <DGMurdockIII> i use windows 7
15:11:02 <Even> Because of thise stupid dirty thing we need GTK/QT to have these things.
15:11:05 <Mic> btw the icons looks the same on the Aero skin
15:11:05 <rnr> gj flo!!:D
15:11:20 <Even> If X was well thought we might still have a native theme without needing such dirty tricks.
15:11:45 <Even> Well, there are flaws on a lot of softwares on Linux :(
15:11:51 <Even> Nothing's perfect....
15:12:39 <DGMurdockIII> Windows Presentation Foundation
15:12:43 <Even> Ah, I remember there's a Windows slave missing.
15:12:46 <flo> Even: and you said I was trolling? :-D
15:12:47 <Even> I'll see to that.
15:12:55 <Even> That's not a troll.
15:13:06 <Even> It's a fact there's a design issue on Linux in this.
15:13:17 <Even> I'm not comparing to any other system telling it is better.
15:13:26 <Even> And that's argumented :)
15:13:57 <flo> hmm, that static build only removes libxul.so, libmozsqlite3.so and libimgicon.so :-/
15:14:52 <DGMurdockIII> if you want to be able to do very nice stuff on vista/7 you need to be able to do Windows Presentation Foundation
15:15:09 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.wpftutorial.net/
15:15:21 <flo> I've no idea what this means once the marketing words are removed
15:15:33 <Even> Done. The win32 slave is returned and doing its job.
15:15:54 <Even> I had to kick it in the butt to make him understand but now it seems clear :)
15:15:59 <Even> For a time at least.
15:16:01 <DGMurdockIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Presentation_Foundation
15:16:08 <Even> When it will hurt less I'll give it another kick :P
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15:16:55 <Even> DGMUrdockIII: plz, no info on MS technologies. Often great enough but never free enough too?
15:16:56 <Even> .
15:17:01 <flo> I don't see why we would need or even want WPF
15:17:38 <Even> Because we want to rewrite Ib in .NET. That's obvious :P
15:18:10 <flo> Pidgin people are interested I think :)
15:18:21 <DGMurdockIII> yeah the the only prblem with it
15:18:56 <Even> lol
15:19:02 <flo> it's a bit like saying that the only problem with having to pay a big amount of money is having to pay :)
15:19:33 <Morian> omg you are so right ... .NET is so powerfull and interoperable
15:19:59 <flo> Morian: yeah, microsoft came and gave a conference explaining it is totally cross platforme
15:20:17 <flo> it works on Windows Vista, on Windows 7, on Windows Mobile, and even on Xbox 360!
15:20:18 <Morian> I can easylly imagine it :)
15:20:42 <DGMurdockIII> what about linux
15:20:44 <Morian> XP too, and from time to time on dirty OSes like Linux of MacOSX
15:20:47 <DGMurdockIII> and mac os
15:20:50 <Even> But if there is a C++ API, which I doubt, that might be a good idea for Mozilla to go for it and to write a new renderer using WPF instead of the old native rendering interface.
15:20:51 <instantbot> c++ sucks
15:20:58 <Even> It would give better performance.
15:21:11 <Even> instantbot: stfu, you don't know a thing :P
15:21:14 <instantbot> Even: Sorry, I've no idea what 'stfu, you don't know a thing :P' might be.
15:21:20 <flo> Even: WPF is a layer above Direct X. I think mozilla is going to do direct rendering using Direct X
15:21:22 <Morian> XD
15:21:49 <DGMurdockIII> there also opengl for linux
15:22:20 <Even> flo: that would kick out native themes and already existings objects, why not using already written code when it's possible... Well, it's not really my problem though.
15:22:40 <flo> maybe because it's not possible? :)
15:22:42 <Even> flo: But I don't understand how, doing that, they will comply with user themes installed on their OSes.
15:23:03 <flo> probably like they already do
15:23:05 <Even> flo: if it's not, then there is no C++ API which was my fear on the subject.
15:23:09 <Even> I suspected as much.
15:23:16 <flo> querying the theme DLL that gives the theme values
15:23:40 <Even> MS is always doing strange technological choices to push their stranges and proprietary technologies.
15:23:56 <Even> .NET is a good idea but still... It should be free to be a really good thing.
15:24:05 * flo wonders if he was really the one trolling on Windows :-D
15:24:13 <Morian> If you see instantbot disconnected withint the next few days please tell me! It means that the hardware dirty hook I've done resulted in a nice explosion...
15:24:26 <Mic> Morian: what did you do
15:24:35 <Even> Morian: I would like to love instantbot exploding.
15:24:36 <Mic> (nice opportunity to get away from the trolling)
15:24:39 <flo> Morian, can't it email you before exploding? :)
15:24:52 <Even> Morian: can you add the explode keyword ? Might be fun :P
15:24:53 <Morian> cutting the power supply fan with a key because of noise
15:25:17 <Mic> d'oh ..
15:25:49 <Even> Something like : "instantbot: explode" and then "instantbot: segmentation fault" followed by "instantbot has left (segmentation fault)" wich might be followed by everyone saying "at least"
15:25:51 <Even> ^^
15:26:15 <flo> Even: you really want to get rid of instantbot?
15:26:21 <flo> You know you are op, right? :-D
15:26:26 <Even> Even: No but I love thinking about it :P
15:26:36 <Even> oops :P
15:26:40 <Even> ^
15:26:50 <Morian> no, to get rid of noise, but if it fails, instantbot will revive somewhere else, he has clones!
15:27:22 <Even> Well. Then I'll have to think about a new poison for those kin of noisy bots :)
15:27:32 <Even> *kind
15:27:51 <Morian> you could lockpick my door, it has already been done :p
15:27:55 <Even> I'll create the instantbot-killer bot !
15:27:58 <Even> Great !
15:28:49 <Even> That would be a bot that goes through chans and kill every instantbot it finds at first sight and, there's no need to say it, without warning.
15:29:03 <flo> by the way, is there a way to make instantbot announce when a new nightly is ready?
15:29:04 <Morian> perhaps if you succeed in putting the server at 100% CPU usage for some time through instantbot, you could kill him with a nice explosion
15:29:28 <Even> And after that we would need instantbot-killer-killers to get rid of those sure since they will spam everyone with left and kicks status messages...
15:29:29 <Even> Well...
15:29:32 <Even> Fun enough :P
15:29:36 <Even> That seems recursive :)
15:29:38 <Morian> flo: he has a FTP module that can check new files.
15:29:52 <flo> ah :)
15:29:54 <Even> And that will generates more and more status messages exponentially.
15:30:00 <Even> Leading to who knows what :DF
15:30:04 <flo> I'd also be interested in being informed about build failures
15:30:18 <flo> It probably has a tinderbox module, but we don't have tinderbox (yet?)
15:30:52 <Even> Yet and for a long time. That's one thing that is not on my todo list.
15:30:53 <Even> :)
15:30:59 <Morian> maybe, probably not available by default, but if you find it, I can grant you access or you could tell me to install this module
15:31:06 <Mic> flo: what about announcing new nightlies in an rss feed?
15:31:10 <flo> Even: you would probably have instantbot-killer's IP banned and it would end the game
15:31:13 <Morian> and anyway you are instantbot's master too
15:31:24 <flo> instantbot: am I your master?
15:31:28 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'am I your master' might be.
15:31:53 <Even> flo: that's a way of seeing it, but those bots can be very nasty ones looking for new comàputers to hide themselves on and continue their tracking :P
15:31:54 <Morian> I mean you can be recognized to him with admin priviledges :p
15:32:15 <Even> It would be a world call war !
15:32:17 <Even> *class
15:32:49 <Morian> Even: I just call it "the future of AI"
15:32:55 <flo> Even: no. We are not going to turn instantbird nightly testers' computers into a bot net for your own pleasure :-P.
15:33:41 <Even> flo: you got me... I thought it was such a good idea though. The users were theren the technology too.
15:33:45 <Even> flo: you're no fun :P
15:35:25 <Even> We might even think about an extension for Ib representing the status of the war. How many kills and such! With a graphical reprensetations of the front line etc!
15:35:50 <Even> I'm sure the administrators of the IRC server of Mozilla are going to love it !
15:35:55 <Even> Please! :P
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15:37:48 <Morian> instantbot is over all.
15:37:51 <instantbot> Morian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'is over all' might be.
15:37:58 <Morian> more or less ...
15:38:05 <flo> Morian: it is stupid!
15:38:23 <Morian> instantbot: insult flo
15:38:24 <instantbot> flo: You are nothing but a culturally-unsound quart of foul dog vomit.
15:38:39 <flo> Even: I'm sure we would need a master student for that representation! :)
15:38:55 <flo> instantbot: insult yourself
15:38:56 <instantbot> flo: nice try, fool
15:39:00 <Morian> XD
15:39:18 <Mic> instantbot: insult instantbot
15:39:19 <instantbot> Mic: exactly how stupid do you think i am?
15:39:31 <Mic> approaching infinity?
15:39:42 <flo> :)
15:43:24 <Mic> 16:31:07 - Mic: flo: what about announcing new nightlies in an rss feed?
15:43:41 <flo> if I'm not the one doing the work, it's great ;)
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15:47:58 <Mic> http://buildbot.instantbird.org/rss shows failed builds at least
15:50:23 <flo> oh, that's nice :)
15:54:12 <Mic> Morian: buildbot has a mail notifier, maybe that's of help
15:55:09 <flo> Even: would you like to use buildbot to email your love to instantbot?
15:55:19 <Mic> http://djmitche.github.com/buildbot/docs/latest/#index-email-123
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16:46:50 <Mic> Older but maybe interesting: http://dossy.org/2007/08/pidgin-im-patch-for-irc-352-who-parsing/
16:47:12 <Mic> Someone added displaying of "idle" to users on irc channels
16:47:22 <Mic> (even though it requires polling the status)
16:47:39 <Mic> Away not idle
16:47:43 <Mic> Sorry.
17:18:07 <Mic> Extension idea: "submit selection to bash.org"
17:22:28 <flo> :)
17:25:14 <flo> polling the status doesn't seem nice for the server :-/
17:25:34 <flo> if we really want to have this information here, we could as well move this chat room to an XMPP MUC...
17:37:42 <Mic> have a nice evening
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23:20:33 <Mic> Hi
23:20:48 <Mic> Can anyone be bothere to talk to me for a nice screenshot?
23:21:20 <Mic> I takes just a few lines to get the effect ofthe new messagestyle
23:22:26 <Mic> brb
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23:35:12 <Mic> re
23:36:07 <Mic> I've got a messagestyle that adds 1px at the top margin for each second between two messages
23:36:38 <Mic> It's ... interesting. 
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