#instantbird log on 02 18 2010

All times are UTC.

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08:45:47 <iLobster> Greetings
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09:58:34 <flo> hi :)
10:01:31 <flo> I would be interested in having feedback about the status toolbar
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10:25:43 <Mic> lo
10:33:17 <flo> ah, there's a new libpurple
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10:54:59 <Morian> major?
10:56:48 <flo>  129 files changed, 1744 insertions(+), 2015 deletions(-)
10:58:30 <Morian> wow
10:58:42 <flo> that's an exciting addition:
10:58:42 <flo> +#if 0
10:58:42 <flo> +	const char *ver;
10:58:42 <flo> +#endif
10:59:39 <Morian> haha
11:08:22 <flo> hmm, or:  106 files changed, 3410 insertions(+), 2030 deletions(-)
11:27:05 <Mic> Shall we extrapolate the number of insertions/deletions to "1 file changed"? ;)
11:27:15 <Mic> well, I guess it doesn't work this way :P
11:27:25 <flo> what do you mean by "1 file changed"?
11:27:50 <Mic> The number of files reduced by 20%
11:28:03 <Mic> The number of insertions increased to 200%.. 
11:28:23 <flo> bah...
11:28:37 <flo> I don't know why the number of files changed has decreased in my second diffstat
11:28:39 <Mic> Now we do that for a single file :D
11:28:55 <flo> I know why the insertions is much hight (I added the 4 new files in the jabber protocol plugins)
11:28:57 <Mic> Must be about half a million insertions then or so
11:29:52 <Mic> ok, enough of this nonsense.
11:30:17 <flo> anyway, given that libpurple is now statically linked by default, it all goes into a single file (purple.dll on windows) :-P
11:30:40 <Mic> The checkmark replacing the icon on the status dropdown in the most recent nightly seems not optimal I think
11:31:36 <flo> It's terrible on Windows :(
11:31:55 <Mic> I tried to put it diplomatically;)
11:32:11 <flo> it's supposed to be the check mark + the status type icon (that's what it does on mac)
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11:35:58 <iLobster> is there any screenshots of instantbird on macos with that new status feature?
11:36:17 <flo> iLobster: no. I don't know how to take a screenshot of a popup menu
11:36:43 <flo> oh, scratch that, it works
11:41:48 <iLobster> and win7 ver need transparent background or something
11:41:50 <iLobster> http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2085/ibstatusseven.png
11:42:03 <flo> ouch
11:42:07 <flo> thanks for reporting that! :)
11:46:06 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/status-toolbar-mac-1.png
11:46:06 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/status-toolbar-mac-2.png
11:46:06 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/status-toolbar-mac-3.png
11:46:06 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/status-toolbar-mac-4.png
12:18:18 <Mic> Aren't the icons pngs using transparency?
12:24:13 <Mic> (ie shouldn't it be working on Windows 7 as well if transparent pngs are shown properly?)
12:59:46 <flo> Mic: the problem is not the icon
13:00:02 <flo> there's probably a background-color with a system color on that XUL element
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14:54:28 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9f87c7d641ba - Florian Quèze - Upgrade libpurple from version 2.6.5 to 2.6.6.
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15:01:40 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 335 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:01:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Going offline should stop reconnection timers
15:03:52 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 336 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:03:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Message themes should be able to write in the status bar.
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15:14:07 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 337 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:14:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Buddy list context menu broken on Mac debug build when the buddy list is not focused
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15:20:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 338 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:20:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Notification bar above the 'no accounts' message
15:27:37 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 339 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:27:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Removing an away message should be a one-click action
15:31:59 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 340 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:32:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Propose a default message for the unavailable status type
15:35:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 341 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:35:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add a way to reorder groups in the buddy list.
15:46:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 342 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:46:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Per-group "show offline buddy" setting
15:51:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 343 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:51:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Sort buddies alphabetically
15:56:23 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 344 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:56:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Figure out what to do with the "Show offline buddies" feature and offline accounts
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16:15:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 345 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
16:15:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Changing the selected emoticons theme should refresh the message theme preview
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17:54:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/7b72ec3dcc73 - Florian Quèze - Fix the error code returned when attempting to set the status before the initialization of libpurple.
17:54:39 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/5ddfe9d855c6 - Florian Quèze - Remove the savedstatus default preference values (no longer used after e80e4127dfd5).
17:54:40 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9f946b3aa370 - Florian Quèze - The background of the status type icon in the status toolbar should be transparent (it was visible on Windows 7).
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19:42:38 <Amfi> Hey everyone :)
19:43:05 <Amfi> flo: we've got a problem with hg server again..
19:43:19 <Amfi> We do not receive any emails
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20:06:45 <rnr> Any support for personas planned?
20:08:12 <rnr> Maybe for when you guys jump to Gecko 1.9.3?
20:09:10 <rnr> Nightly trunk running nicely. Good job guys!!
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20:37:28 <flo> Amfi: hi
20:37:45 <flo> which email is missing?
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20:38:13 <Mic> hi
20:43:45 <Amfi> The messages we should receive after pushing new changes..
20:43:48 <Amfi> "Result from your last push in Instantbird's locale repository"
20:44:19 <flo> but in http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/pl/repos/ I see that the last push was 9 days ago
20:45:00 <Amfi> The last four were not followed by e-mails
20:45:15 <Amfi> Neither me, nor Wareczek received any message
20:46:40 <flo> an email to Wareczek was sent Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:14:46 +0100 (CET)
20:47:21 <Amfi> Hmm... he said he did'nt get anything
20:47:23 <Mic> flo: what about the green "Go"-arrow from the Firefox adress bar as "connect" icon for the online status bar?
20:47:31 <flo> maybe it ended up in the spam folder?
20:47:34 <Amfi> I'll talk to him again and will come back to you again ;)
20:47:56 <flo> you can watch the process at http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/waterfall
20:48:28 <flo> I think the content of the emails is the output of "stdio" on the "merge" step
20:48:43 <Mic> I found it fitting this purpose when creating the mockups for the account quick access bar
20:48:49 <flo> this waterfall contains the logs of langpack creation for all languages
20:49:22 <flo> Mic: I thought about this. I guess we could try.
20:49:49 <flo> It seems to me that it's more associated to "Play" (like on DVD/mp3 players) than to "connect"
20:49:55 <flo> but maybe it's the best we can do
20:56:00 <Mic> Are two [x] next to each other too much of a good thing?
20:56:37 <flo> arg, I had Mac OS X in mind of course :-/
20:57:39 <Mic> hmm?
20:57:46 <Mic> Oh, three then. :D
20:58:23 <Mic> Wait a minute ..
20:58:59 <flo> 3?
20:59:55 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:Cancel_status.png
21:02:46 <flo> hmm, I thought that by "next to each other" you meant that on Windows there's one in the top right corner of the window
21:03:58 <Mic> I admit it looks to much so close together and might show pretty little of the message when you have a narrow window
21:04:19 <Mic> Still I like the idea to discard the current status message with a click
21:05:04 <flo> currently it's a click and a keypress
21:05:17 <flo> oh, 2 keypresses
21:05:40 <flo> hmm, no, one :)
21:05:56 <flo> click, backspace, <do anything you want, unrelated to the status> :)
21:06:26 <Mic> Or doing nothing at all ;)
21:06:44 <flo> isn't chosing to do nothing already an action? :)
21:06:52 <Mic> lol
21:07:29 <Mic> I was writing a longer line about the philosophical question if "doing nothing" is "doing anything"
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21:10:48 <flo> in this case it's "wait for 20 seconds"
21:17:56 <Mic> Accessing the menu doesn't cancel editing the status message (and therefor doesn't accept a status change)
21:18:00 <Mic> *therefore
21:18:24 <flo> ah?
21:18:30 <flo> is that causing some sort of bugs?
21:19:55 <Mic> It was just unexpected
21:20:24 <Mic> I set the status from away to available and directly accessed the menu again, just to notice that I'm still shown as unavailable (while expecting that my choice has been accepted)
21:21:48 <Mic> Why would the menu be an exception? It's not like you could copy a status message from there and therefore might want to keep the status message in edit mode (imo)
21:21:50 <flo> I don't know if we should try to fix that
21:22:12 <flo> if you want to, feel free to patch it :-)
21:23:34 <Mic> I've been here for too long already this evening..
21:23:59 * Mic will repot an indoor plant now instead of fixing a bug :D
21:24:33 <flo> :)
21:24:41 <flo> say hi to the plant :)
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21:54:42 <DGMurdockIII> will there eventualu be a weasu way to cange you away stat
21:54:57 <flo> ?
21:55:02 <DGMurdockIII> from the gui with out going throug the men
21:55:36 <DGMurdockIII> you now how you added the tyhe avablie to the top of buddy list
21:55:55 <DGMurdockIII> will you be able to change you status using that
21:56:08 <flo> so what are you asking exactly?
21:56:11 <DGMurdockIII> or will you still have to go go to file
21:56:22 <flo> just click on the status type icon
21:56:43 <DGMurdockIII> ok did not knoe that
21:57:13 <DGMurdockIII> i have one problem with how the icon look right now
21:57:25 <DGMurdockIII> i like how it looks bit
21:57:54 <DGMurdockIII> it looks like there is white backround behind it
21:58:09 <DGMurdockIII> other than than that it look great
21:58:11 <flo> this issue: http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2085/ibstatusseven.png ?
21:58:21 <DGMurdockIII> yes
21:58:38 <flo> it's already been reported this morning (morning in my timezone).
21:58:41 <flo> it's fixed for the next nightly
21:59:22 <DGMurdockIII> about taking a long time top start up
21:59:45 <DGMurdockIII> iwhere it start to slow down is retriving buddy lists
21:59:48 <flo> have you noticed an improvement with this nightly?
21:59:58 <DGMurdockIII> a littel bit
22:00:33 <flo> it should load about 13 files less at startup
22:00:59 <DGMurdockIII> let me see if still loads in less time
22:01:07 <Mic> flo: 22:59:46 - DGMurdockIII: iwhere it start to slow down is retriving buddy lists
22:01:26 <flo> Mic: that's not startup, it's connecting
22:01:27 <Mic> It's about loading the buddies, not the application itself..?
22:01:31 <flo> with network latency
22:01:57 <flo> all the thing we can do about that is adding a nice animation while the buddy list is empty, so that the time look shorter...
22:02:22 <flo> (but it has a big potential to improve perceived performance, which is often as important as real performance)
22:02:27 <DGMurdockIII> yeah but with aim or pidgin it dosmnt take this long
22:02:37 <Mic> well, if someone has auto-connect, then it might be hard to tell what counts to loading application or buddies
22:03:34 <DGMurdockIII> even digsby connects in less time
22:03:42 <flo> AIM has been espetially slow to connect for me the last few days
22:03:56 <flo> Reading #pidgin, it seems the AOL servers are having issues.
22:04:07 <Mic> ICQ recently takes a lot of time to connect
22:04:31 <flo> and the code takes a lot of time to write!
22:04:38 <flo> and to compile on Windows!
22:04:47 <DGMurdockIII> but i only ever use them to instantbird to
22:05:05 <DGMurdockIII> cto compair instantbird to
22:05:19 <DGMurdockIII> brb
22:05:28 <DGMurdockIII> bathroom
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22:07:13 <flo> I'd like to have reliable ways to measure startup (and connection) times!
22:09:35 <DGMurdockIII> once you do that then
22:09:54 <flo> I've no idea of how to do it
22:10:04 <flo> but we are probably not slower than pidgin
22:11:33 <DGMurdockIII> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1553984/how-to-test-applications-startup-time-or-performance/1557583
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22:12:24 <DGMurdockIII> flo use https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
22:12:51 <flo> it's not related at all
22:13:52 <DGMurdockIII> they did a test to messure start up and shuut down
22:14:34 <flo> mozilla has lots of tests for that
22:15:01 <flo> Ts and Tshutdown in they buildfarm. More recently, they also started measuring cold startup time.
22:16:40 <DGMurdockIII> why could you do somthing like that
22:17:12 <flo> we don't have the same ressources
22:21:14 <DGMurdockIII> this problem is not that bad really
22:24:39 <DGMurdockIII> but if it could be improved that be good
22:28:20 <DGMurdockIII> flo have you heard of irseek for irc channel loging
22:31:46 <flo> I hadn't ;)
22:33:16 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.irseek.com/
22:33:37 <flo> yeah, google found it ;)
22:35:22 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 346 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
22:35:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Buddy list always on top
22:35:36 <DGMurdockIII> what do you think of that
22:35:54 <DGMurdockIII> have you look in to cia
22:36:23 <DGMurdockIII> http://cia.vc/
22:37:56 <Mic> DGMurdockIII: Instantbot already reports many important things here
22:38:03 <DGMurdockIII> what do you think of using Personas as the the theme engine for instantbird now that it used in firefox by defult
22:38:14 <flo> theme for what?
22:38:15 <Mic> and you can always monitor some rss feeds if you need more
22:38:30 <DGMurdockIII> for buddy list
22:38:33 <flo> do you want to theme the tab bar? Is it worth so much effort
22:38:47 <DGMurdockIII> some people do
22:56:39 <Mic> Castrated themes ..
22:56:57 <Mic> sorry.. I meant "lightweight" ofcourse ;)
22:57:07 <flo> yeah ;)
22:57:18 <flo> the interesting part is "install without restart"
22:57:40 <flo> instantbot: bug 302 ;)
22:57:43 <instantbot> flo: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=302 enh, --, nobody, NEW, Dynamic theme switching
22:58:01 <Mic> I don't really have a problem with restarting when the application seamlessly restores the previous state
22:58:47 <flo> it will still show you as offline for a few seconds
22:58:58 <flo> which means you will have to say something about it in almost all your active conversations
22:59:06 <Mic> Morian: does instantbot support searching for bugs?
22:59:31 <flo> instantbot: do you have bugs?
22:59:34 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'do you have bugs' might be.
22:59:59 <Mic> like "instantbot: findbug: theme switching"
23:00:11 <flo> instantbot: help
23:00:13 <instantbot> flo: help info /msg'ed
23:00:48 <flo> Bugzilla: bug, bug-total, bugs, ignore, unignore
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23:03:54 <Mic> rank
23:04:04 <Mic> instantbot: rank
23:04:05 <instantbot> The person with the most karma is wikipedia with 1 points.
23:04:21 <Mic> wikipedia --
23:26:20 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 347 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
23:26:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Rework www.instantbird.org
23:27:42 <Mic> od night
23:27:45 <Mic> *good
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