#instantbird log on 01 15 2010

All times are UTC.

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12:54:06 <Mic> hej
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16:38:17 <flo> any idea of how the UI should look in the buddy list while editing an alias?
16:46:17 <Mitch> Go all modal dialog.
16:46:34 <flo> Mitch: requesting a confirmation through SMS? :)
16:46:49 <Mic> Something like when renaming folders on Windows/.. ?
16:47:20 <Mic> ie an input box that takes the place of the label
16:47:21 <flo> Mic: yes
16:47:25 <flo> we will edit in-place
16:48:08 <Mitch> flo: So an alias is self-explanatory, and just a different name you've given a buddy?
16:48:18 <flo> I'm just wondering whether I need to add an extra bordure around the editing zone, or if I can just keep it as-is (the previous content will be selected automatically, so it's visible that it's editable)
16:48:26 <flo> s/bordure/border/
16:49:03 <flo> so alias a buddy, you will either select "Rename" in the buddy context menu, or press F2
16:49:08 <Mic> :)
16:49:17 <Mic> I wanted to ask for the F2 shortcut
16:49:37 <flo> Mic: heh ;)
16:49:42 <flo> I used to use Windows
16:49:59 <Mic> It's same on the Ubuntu machine here
16:50:04 <flo> Enter will validate. Escape will cancel.
16:50:06 <Mic> (uah, Gnome;)
16:50:17 <flo> Focusing something else will validate
16:50:47 <Mic> Sounds good to me
16:50:47 <flo> I already have the UI-part working in my debug build
16:50:54 <Mic> What was the problem with the UI then?
16:50:58 <Mic> The border thing?
16:51:02 <flo> now I need to add the back-end part (storage of aliases, loading them at startup, ...)
16:51:21 <Mic> ah, I have so little time
16:51:39 <Mic> Maybe I should give the parts of the accounts quick access bar to someone else if you need it urgently
16:51:43 <flo> yes, I wonder if I need to add a border or not (it would be a pain to add a border looking exactly ilke the one the OS uses. It is very different on all 3 OSes)
16:51:47 <Mic> Or put in a nightshift one of these days
16:52:22 <Mitch> flo: See how Songbird does in-place editing? (If you dare venture into its source.)
16:52:22 <flo> or I was wondering if we would use something completely different
16:52:24 <Mic> Wouldn't it be covered by the themes anyways?
16:52:38 <flo> for example replacing the protocol icon by an icon of a pencil while aliasing
16:52:43 <Mic> Well, once you styled it correctly ;)
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16:53:51 <Mitch> flo: I'm not sure clicking elsewhere should lock in an alias change. I'd expect it to cancel. Also, how would you unset an alias?
16:55:07 <flo> "I'd expect it to cancel." yes and no. If people want to edit buddies in a row, they will select the next buddy they want to alias to validate. Canceling in this case would be stupid.
16:56:09 <Mic> Mitch: that's how the behaviour is when renaming files/folders on Windows and with Nautilus on Ubuntu
16:56:12 <flo> I was wondering about adding a specific case for when the blur event happens because you focused a different window, and not just "clicked elsewhere in the buddy list". This would cover the case of "someone IMed me and a window poped up"
16:56:38 <Mic> Nautilus only accepts the change when you select another item, not when you just click elsewhere
16:56:41 <Mitch> flo: There was a question in there. ;)
16:56:43 <flo> In this specific case we would keep the buddy in "edit mode" for when the window gets the focus back
16:57:04 <flo> this case can be handled as a follow up bug.
16:58:47 <flo> Mic: I just tried. It seems Nautilus accepts the change when you click elsewhere, except when you click in a menu, or focus another window.
16:59:12 <flo> Mitch: "Also, how would you unset an alias?" Good question. I don't know. Any ideas?
16:59:41 <Mic> I can click free space on the file list (ie not a row with a file), use the scrollbars, ..) and it stays in edit mode
16:59:50 <flo> the only (very poor) I have now is adding a "Restore original name" in the context menu
17:00:20 <flo> Mic: if I click in the free space in the file list, it accepts the change.
17:00:27 <Mic> hmm, ok ..
17:00:34 <flo> Not if I click i, the empty space in the left pane
17:00:40 <flo> bah... that seems complicated :-D
17:01:02 <Mitch> flo: Well, with Windows renaming, blanking it and confirming resets to whatever the last valid name was. Not sure that's the best idea, but blanking then confirming could just reset to default.
17:01:03 <Mic> ok, maybe it has changed and most likely it is configurable somhow
17:01:03 <flo> (by the way, I'm trying on Nautilus 2.28.1)
17:01:39 <flo> Mitch: adding this feature is acceptable to me, but is not discoverable
17:01:52 <flo> though I guess people could live without finding how to remove an alias
17:02:15 <Mic> I'm using 2.26.2 here (on Ubuntu 9.04)
17:02:16 <Mitch> flo: If the "Rename" option selects all the text, then I'd reactively delete it all to see what happens. :D
17:02:18 <flo> it's not all that terrible to now see anymore the stupid display name changes of msn users
17:02:41 <flo> Mitch: just to see if there's a bug around? :)
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17:02:53 <Mitch> Heh, no. To see what it does.
17:03:36 <flo> other potential problems: what happens if the buddies disconnects while the user is aliasing it?
17:03:37 <Mitch> "No alias text == no alias" makes sense to me, but...
17:03:46 * Mitch gets Mic's opinion
17:04:14 <Mitch> flo: Depends what the regular behaviour for disconnecting buddies it.
17:04:23 <Mitch> s/it/is/
17:04:28 <flo> Currently they disappear with an animation
17:04:52 <Mitch> Um...make some part of something fade?
17:07:15 <Mitch> (Note: I don't use Instantbird regularly 'cause I'm usually just on IRC, and...Instantbird is a bit lacking for that.)
17:07:50 <flo> removing the alias by setting a blank one makes a lot of sense. (it's easy to code :-P)
17:08:02 <Mitch> Hah.
17:08:33 <flo> by the way, what's lacking for IRC?
17:10:46 <Mitch> IIRC, it simply wasn't good. Contact list on the right, making it look like a regular instant message window, etc. I'll check it out soon to see if that's changed.
17:11:55 <Mitch> OMGWTFBBQ. How about a recent Windows nightly build?
17:12:25 <Mitch> "01-Jan-2010 05:59 	 11M	Nightly build for Windows"
17:12:47 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/instantbird-0.2b2pre.en-US.win32.installer.exe Was built on January 13th
17:13:03 <flo> (built on my laptop though :-/)
17:14:32 <flo> hmm, it's at least the second time I attempt to close the log viewer with the escape key :-S
17:21:57 <Mitch> Not implemented?
17:22:17 <flo> Command+w works
17:22:44 <flo> usually Command+w closes windows and Escape closes dialogs.
17:22:58 <flo> the difference between the 2 is not really obvious in all cases though :-D
17:28:58 <Mic> Mitch: what would you expect the IRC window to look like?
17:29:13 <Mic> (maybe just name other clients that you like with respect to this)
17:29:20 <flo> how many people here have tried the installer, and on which versions of Windows?
17:29:55 <flo> the only remaining item in my installer-related todo list is "request help for testing on various versions of Windows (2k, XP, 2003, Vista, 7) both as admin and as an unprivileged user"
17:31:08 <Mitch> Mic: Well, I use ChatZilla, so my mental image of what Instantbird IRC has it in Comic Sans font and really garish overall. (Not an entirely accurate image.)
17:31:42 <flo> so you just want to use a different message theme? :-P
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17:32:40 <Mitch> Like I said, I'll check out its recent behaviour. :)
17:32:57 <flo> it hasn't changed so much
17:33:33 <flo> Mic: by the way, was there ever a working version of the completion on nicks? We planed great completion-related stuff a long while ago, but it would be nice to have at least a basic version working someday :)
17:34:35 <Mic> Nothing that we were content with
17:35:29 <flo> I remember we discussed for a long time the usage of the "tab" key
17:36:00 <Mic> or ctrl+space like on IDEs or selected+pressing enter+.. 
17:36:31 <flo> having the completion appear automatically and selected was my favorite I guess :)
17:36:38 <Mic> I think I put the collected ideas on the wiki?
17:36:49 <Mic> One of the brainstorming articles
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17:36:59 <Mic> http://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:completion
17:37:21 <Mitch_1_2> NO TAB-COMPLETION RAGE
17:37:39 <flo> aa, the wiki works :)
17:38:29 <Mitch_1_2> I'd rather have the timestamps in their own column.
17:38:35 <flo> "(23:03:13) Eventreur: We're not going to use the emacs shortcut for sure... " ahah
17:39:20 <Mic> You said to do it using a jsm .. after  I looked through the smilie jsm and others I got an idea what you meant with that
17:39:43 <flo> because we were talking about something generic, ...
17:39:58 <Mic> Did you have a look at the message themes?
17:40:01 * Mitch_1_2 does some action
17:40:24 <Mic> Should be possible to create something that looks like the Chatzilla theme
17:41:36 <Mic> I've got to go, have a nice evening
17:41:42 <Mitch_1_2> Bye, Mic.
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17:41:56 <Mitch_1_2> flo: Lack of tab-completion really does suck.
17:42:13 <flo> feel free to fix it :)
17:42:29 <Mitch_1_2> flo: Also, there's no UI indication of which network this is on.
17:42:44 <flo> in the tooltip of the tab
17:43:39 <Mitch_1_2> Adding it to the titlebar would make sense, right? That tooltip really isn't intuitive.
17:44:59 <Mitch_1_2> How does Instantbird handle multiple simultaneous networks? Different windows for each network?
17:45:14 <flo> no
17:45:19 <flo> but you can drag a tab to a separate window
17:45:43 <flo> as for the title... care to fix it in libpurple? :)
17:46:16 <flo> gtg, back in a few hours
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23:14:54 <flo> good night :)
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