#instantbird log on 01 07 2010

All times are UTC.

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03:59:12 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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06:00:05 <Mic> Good morning
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09:37:34 <flo> hi :)
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09:56:11 <devfil> flo, hi :)
09:59:58 <devfil> flo, in instantbird the protocols are static, aren't them?
10:00:09 <flo> define "static"
10:01:57 <devfil> flo, msn)		static_msn=yes ;; etc...
10:02:17 <flo> we don't use the libpurple configure script
10:03:01 <devfil> I see, I'm trying to build msn-pecan, I'm trying a workaround for the glib's main loop problem
10:03:53 <flo> so, you have already built instantbird yourself?
10:03:59 <devfil> s/trying/testing/2
10:04:20 <devfil> yes, it's trying to build protocols now
10:06:10 <flo> to add a protocol (with regard to the build system), you just need to add it in the PROTOCOLS variable of the purple/libpurple/Makefile.in file
10:06:19 <devfil> already done
10:06:30 <flo> and add the protocol plugin's source in purple/libpurple/protocols/<name>
10:06:41 <flo> with a Makefile.in similar to the one you can see in the other protocol folders
10:06:57 <devfil> yes, already done
10:07:06 <flo> so, what's the result? :)
10:07:21 <devfil> error :S
10:07:39 <devfil> Fatal error: can't create cmd/command.o: No such file or directory
10:07:44 <devfil> Fatal error: can't create cmd/msg.o: No such file or directory
10:08:26 <flo> add this at the end of your Makefile.in:
10:08:31 <devfil> I forgot to define a thing...
10:08:32 <flo> export::
10:08:32 <flo> 	mkdir -p cmd
10:10:02 <devfil> /home/dfiloni/Scaricati/instantbird-0.2b1-src/purple/libpurple/protocols/msn-pecan/msn.c:1904: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘gboolean’
10:10:06 <devfil> :S
10:10:33 <flo> pastebin the code around that line? :)
10:11:55 <devfil> flo, http://pastie.org/769943
10:12:12 <devfil> the line 1904 is G_MODULE_EXPORT gboolean
10:12:29 <devfil> I think I need to define STATIC_PECAN
10:12:44 <flo> why isn't that code using the standard libpurple macro used to register a protocol plugin?
10:13:08 <devfil> I don't remember
10:13:21 <flo> it's not going to work like that anyway
10:13:47 <devfil> why?
10:14:12 <flo> because in Instantbird we changed that macro, so that it creates the code we need instead of the code gmodule needs
10:15:20 <devfil> flo, what about purple_init_msn_pecan_plugin(void)?
10:16:43 <flo> hmm, that's similar
10:17:00 <flo> the relevant macro is defined here: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/plugin.h#245
10:18:39 <flo> you can probably just write: PURPLE_INIT_PLUGIN(msn_pecan, init_plugin, info);
10:20:03 <devfil> ok
10:28:06 <devfil> flo, xpcomModule.cpp:54: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘-’ token
10:28:06 <devfil> xpcomModule.cpp:63: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘-’ token
10:28:06 <devfil> xpcomModule.cpp:66: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘-’ token
10:28:06 <devfil> xpcomModule.cpp:70: error: expected initializer before ‘-’ token
10:28:06 <devfil> xpcomModule.cpp:77: error: expected initializer before ‘-’ token
10:29:35 <flo> ah
10:29:48 <flo> well, using a name containing "-" as the name of the protocol is not going to work
10:29:51 <devfil> I think I cannot use msn-pecan
10:30:09 <flo> what does it do if you rename the folder to msnpecan or msn_pecan?
10:30:38 <devfil> that should be fine, I use msn_pecan building it on adium
10:54:04 <devfil> flo, it still doesn't build... always the same error
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11:18:37 <devfil> flo, undefined reference to `purple_mkstemp'
11:18:49 <devfil> undefined reference to `purple_debug_is_enabled'
11:25:54 <flo> what's the code using that function?
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11:26:40 <flo> I suppose you can "fix" by adding #define purple_debug_is_enabled() TRUE
11:27:37 <flo> I think I added this somewhere too: #define purple_mkstemp(a, b) NULL
11:30:20 <bittin> can somone fix an rss feed for the blogs?
11:31:44 <Mic> bittin: the instantbird blog has an rss feed afaik (if you're referring to this)
11:32:33 <Mic> http://blog.instantbird.com/flux.rss
11:40:54 <devfil> flo, why did you disable purple_mkstemp?
11:41:27 <flo> because I don't want to have libpurple writting random stuff in a temporary folder
11:41:43 <flo> ideally, I wouldn't want to have libpurple writting anything to the disk at all
11:42:12 <devfil> flo, msn-pecan uses that in order to download msn plus sounds and to receive voice clips
11:42:22 <flo> the official msn plugin too
11:43:00 <flo> we use neither of those things in the UI so currently it doesn't matter. Once we need to make these things work, we will look for a solution
11:44:07 <devfil> flo, I hope msn-pecan works, I really would like to work on some features actually supported by msn-pecan but not by pidgin (like sending plus sounds, saving received voice clips, etc...)
11:45:09 <flo> :)
11:46:21 <devfil> flo, ehm.... it works :)
11:46:47 <flo> is the workaround for the eventloop issue ugly?
11:50:13 <devfil> flo, a bit
11:50:22 <devfil> http://pastie.org/769563
11:51:53 <flo> so this means each time you expect some data from a socket, you will wait at least one second?
11:54:18 <devfil> I can reduce that time, this is only a test
11:54:24 <devfil> I will continue later, now I have to go
11:54:25 <devfil> bye
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12:03:06 <bittin> Mic: ah then its me that suck at finding it :p
12:03:36 <flo> bittin: just click at the feed icon in the location bar of your browser ;)
12:06:21 <bittin> my browser don't have any :(
12:06:44 <flo> which browser is it?
12:15:09 <Mic> lol
12:15:22 <Mic> Frankly I didn't use the icon but checked the links in the source :D
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12:26:43 <iLobster> Greetings
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15:57:54 <devfil> flo, what do you think about that patch? it seems to work fine
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15:59:55 <flo> I've got to go, sorry. Back in about 2hours.
16:00:20 <devfil> ok, I will adjust all the patches
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18:05:01 <devfil> flo, we were talking about that patch, what do you think?
18:06:08 <flo> right...
18:06:45 <flo> msn_session_new is called when you connect an account, right?
18:06:52 <devfil> yes
18:07:11 <flo> so you create it multiple times if you connect several accounts?
18:07:29 <devfil> yes, one for each account
18:08:52 <flo> is this a good thing?
18:09:06 <flo> wouldn't it be better to create only one, and refcount it?
18:09:25 <devfil> this is how msn work
18:09:36 <devfil> s
18:10:07 <flo> uh, sorry, by "it" I meant the event loop.
18:10:19 <flo> (and the timer)
18:11:10 <devfil> oh, well, I don't know, I just did what felipec proposed, he said to write and test this workaround
18:12:13 <flo> also, I don't know if this would conflict or not with an existing glib main loop (on Linux the graphical toolkit is GTK which has a glib main loop already running)
18:12:36 <devfil> flo, I'm using instantbird on linux
18:12:50 <devfil> ubuntu 10.04 (development version)
18:12:54 <flo> on linux you don't need the work around at all
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18:13:06 <flo> it's needed for mac and windows
18:13:45 <devfil> well, at least we know it doesn't conflict :S
18:14:48 <flo> you said you compiled msn pecan for adium before, so I assumed you were on a mac and didn't ask any question :-/
18:15:55 <devfil> no, I have to reinstall xcode again on my mac...
18:16:27 <devfil> flo, how can I build instantbird on a mac?
18:16:57 <flo> as you did on linux
18:17:05 <flo> but install xcode ;)
18:17:13 <devfil> mhhh... what about dependencies?
18:18:07 <flo> if you have what you need to build firefox, then you have what you need to build instantbird
18:19:42 * devfil hates macports
18:21:14 <devfil> flo, I'm going to test that patch with adium (at least I know how to build it)
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18:26:14 <devfil> flo, how did you create the xpi files with binaries when you wrote http://blog.instantbird.org/a9-instantbird-0-2-feature-preview-protocols-as-extensions.html ?
18:27:00 <flo> by hand :(
18:27:21 <flo> xpi and jar extensions are used with zip files
18:27:36 <devfil> flo, I hope you didn't build instantbird three times...
18:27:49 <flo> I did
18:28:01 <flo> I don't have visual studio on Mac OS X...
18:29:15 <flo> (and yes, that "process" totally sucks... I guess that's why I haven't released a new version of the extension each time there was a new official version of the facebook chat plugin)
18:36:31 <devfil> flo, can you build msn_pecan on you mac? so that gcc builds only msn-pecan and not all the stuff
18:36:56 <flo> if you just want to know if it works yes
18:37:04 <flo> but currently I only have a debug build around
18:37:45 <flo> if you want a .dylib to package, it will need to be from a non-debug universal build ;)
18:38:10 <devfil> flo, I just want to know if it works
18:38:51 <flo> send me what you have :)
18:41:46 <devfil> flo, git clone git://github.com/felipec/msn-pecan.git
18:42:03 <flo> but you have patched it, haven't you?
18:42:16 <devfil> yes, I'm working on the diff right now
18:42:48 <flo> (and I don't have git installed, I'll have to ask macport to install it ;))
18:43:17 <flo> maybe you can just zip your current folder inside libpurple/protocols ?
18:43:30 <devfil> ok, I can upload it on sendspace
18:46:06 <devfil> flo, http://www.sendspace.com/file/e6b3z7 thanks
18:51:40 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird
18:51:40 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
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18:54:37 <flo> purple/libpurple/protocols/msn_pecan/pn_locale.h:25:23: error: libintl.h: No such file or directory
18:56:09 <flo> I removed -DENABLE_NLS and it starts building
18:56:41 <flo> but if fails to link because of undefined symbols
18:57:02 <flo> g_io_* and g_strcmp0
19:03:24 <devfil> flo, looks like you are using a very old version of glib
19:03:32 <flo> no
19:03:36 <flo> we just removed the useless parts
19:04:17 <flo> I just tried adding giochannel.c in the msn_pecan folder
19:04:26 <flo> now only 2 symbols are still missing
19:04:46 <flo> g_io_channel_unix_new and g_strcmp0
19:04:59 <devfil> flo, why does it build on linux?
19:05:09 <flo> system glib on linux
19:16:38 <devfil> flo, I wonder why msn-pecan does build on adium
19:16:55 <flo> they have probably kept a complete glib
19:19:43 <flo> apparently I also need giounix.c
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19:21:57 <devfil> flo, yes, they build a complete glib
19:28:35 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> Leeroy Jenkins!
19:28:46 <Morian> drunk?
19:28:54 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> NOT YET!
19:29:21 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> instantbot who am I
19:29:22 <instantbot> DetroitLibertyPenguin: you are the resident asshole American
19:29:29 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> got that right :-)
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19:46:16 <vicnet> instantbot who am I
19:46:17 <instantbot> vicnet: I seem to recall that you are a "ploukisateur".
19:46:25 <vicnet> huhu :D
19:59:23 <Even> LOL
19:59:45 <Even> The bot has some knowledge indeed...
19:59:56 <Even> I won't take the risk to ask the same question though :P
20:00:11 <Even> I have an idea of the answer already ;)
20:00:35 <Even> Don't want to know if I'm right or not... :)
20:01:11 <Morian> you can check in PM before :p
20:01:32 <flo> instantbot: who is even?
20:01:33 * instantbot slaps flo on the fingers
20:01:50 <-- flo has kicked instantbot from #instantbird
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20:02:09 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/."
20:02:09 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
20:02:19 <devfil> lol
20:05:26 <devfil> flo, news?
20:05:51 <Even> uhuh
20:05:57 <Even> instantbot: who am i?
20:05:58 * instantbot slaps Even on the fingers
20:06:03 <Even> Ok.
20:06:10 <Even> That's not really what I expected.
20:06:14 <Even> I accepted this :)
20:06:17 <Even> *accept
20:06:25 <Even> That's really much better :p
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20:12:14 * devfil wants to try too
20:12:21 <devfil> instantbot who am i?
20:12:24 <instantbot> devfil: Sorry, I've no idea who you are.
20:12:40 <devfil> -.-'
20:14:14 <Mic> Same for me, I guess ;)
20:14:26 <Mic> instantbot who am I?
20:14:27 <instantbot> Mic: you are that addon ready yet
20:14:38 <Morian> O_o
20:14:39 <Mic> d'oh!
20:15:08 <Mic> instantbot who told you who I am?
20:15:11 <instantbot> Mic: Sorry, I've no idea what 'who told you who I am' might be.
20:15:12 <Mic> Well, was worth a try
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20:47:56 <flo> devfil: I gave up for this evening. I'd need to find a copy of giounix.c (I don't have it around), and then copy some implementation of g_strcmp0 (http://google.com/codesearch/p?hl=fr#RGCD84x9Jg0/trunk/xbmc/lib/libmms/glib-2.20.4/glib/gtestutils.c&q=g_strcmp0&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc&l=1395)
20:49:01 <devfil> flo, I'm trying to clone adium repo but my internet connection sucks... -.-'
20:49:20 <flo> is that related?
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20:52:16 <devfil> flo, adium needs that change too, so if the patch works on adium it works also on instantbird
20:52:53 <flo> you know, it's not that hard to build instantbird on mac ;)
20:54:34 <devfil> flo, but in adium the provided glib is complete :)
20:55:12 <devfil> if the patch works I will work also on instantbird, I don't like adium, I prefer to use instantbird on my mac, I think we can work on a better msn implementation :)
20:56:45 <flo> out of curiosity, why don't you like Adium? (before I started Instantbird, I tried it and the only thing I really didn't like was the fact that I couldn't use it on anything but my macbook, so I had to be used to at least 2 different clients)
20:59:41 <devfil> flo, well, personal messages are associated to status (msn doesn't work in this way!), I proposed several times simple changes in order to implement something (in msn-pecan there are only stupid workarounds because in Adium it's impossible to open a link -.-), etc...
21:02:54 <flo> do you think it would make sense to set the MSN personnal message at the same time as the mood on XMPP, and maybe to post that to twitter?
21:03:20 <flo> and maybe facebook too
21:03:45 <devfil> nope, that is the more stupid thing
21:04:18 <Mic> + printing a copy for a journal in rl? ;)
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21:05:16 <flo> so, what is it actually? What do people use it for? Which kind of information is there? How often is it changed?
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21:07:10 <devfil> flo, what are you talking about? about the personal message?
21:08:41 <flo> yes
21:09:58 <devfil> flo, it's used to print something like "wow, I really liked this morning" etc... like in facebook, in the official client it is not associated to the status
21:10:37 <flo> so how is what I proposed "the more stupid thing"?
21:11:28 <devfil> flo, ??? I'm lost :(
21:12:37 <devfil> flo, oh, I didn't read correctly your question
21:12:44 <devfil> yes, of course that's fine
21:13:19 <flo> we need to find some way to unify all the things we have that are more or less related to status messages
21:13:42 <flo> all protocol handle status in different ways
21:13:42 <devfil> I was talking about me vs. Adium, it's one of the thing I don't like of Adium, the way it handles the message
21:14:21 <flo> I don't know yet what we can do, but It's probably going to be painful to find a solution that looks acceptable in all situations
21:14:43 <devfil> yes, I know :(
21:15:07 <flo> if we add some UI for a personnal message that is usable on MSN/XMPP/Twitter/facebook, it will look like a broken piece of UI crap for someone using only AIM and IRC
21:15:28 <devfil> I know
21:15:37 <devfil> however what about other things? support from the ui for features like receiving voice clips etc...
21:16:11 <flo> and I don't feel like dynamically changing the UI of the main status selector depending on which accounts are currently online
21:16:34 <devfil> nope, I don't like that too
21:16:52 <flo> I've absolutely no idea of what voice clips are used for. The only thing I've understood is that they seem to be audio files that libpurple attempts to download and stuff into a temporary folder
21:17:11 <devfil> what do you think about two types of personal messages? the "static" and the one associated to status
21:17:32 <devfil> and the one associated to status takes the priority in msn for example
21:17:58 <devfil> in facebook, twitter ecc... the personal message is the one that is set
21:18:01 <flo> don't you also have a status message on MSN?
21:18:15 <devfil> if the status message is not set in msn is set the stati message
21:18:16 <Mic> devfil: I'm curious about this as well. Is it some sort of voice message that you record and send to someone else?
21:18:59 <flo> if that's asynchronous voice, how is that different from a file transfer?
21:19:30 <devfil> Mic, yes, you record a sound (30 seconds IIRC) and it is sent through the chat, msn-pecan can receive them and it also have the code to encode them, the UI should show a better way to listen and maybe to save them
21:20:01 <flo> devfil: when/how are they used in the UI of the official client?
21:20:35 <devfil> flo, voice clips or personal messages? we are talking about a lot of different things... :(
21:20:44 <flo> voice clips
21:20:54 * Mic has just sent a voice clip [Play] [Discard]
21:21:03 <devfil> save
21:21:08 <devfil> (IIRC)
21:21:25 <flo> ah. So that's really a file transfert, that just happens to contain sound?
21:21:46 <flo> and the client offers to play it directly from the conversation UI
21:22:04 <devfil> flo, yes, the sound is a clip encoded using siren7 codec, the client also offers to record it in order to send it
21:22:15 <flo> like we would like to display a small preview of transferred image files? (by the way, AIM can insert images directly into conversations)
21:23:03 <flo> ok
21:23:07 <devfil> the sound is received and than the user can reproduce it, there isn't a 'preview'
21:23:22 <devfil> flo, let's talk about personal status messages a second
21:23:32 <devfil> this is a bit tricky in msn
21:23:32 <flo> ok, quickly then.
21:23:40 <flo> I've got to get up very early tomorrow
21:23:57 <devfil> in the msn protocol the message is associated to status, but in the official client it isn't
21:24:13 <flo> but I'm interested in discussing the detail of the mess of status with regard to all the protocols sooner rather than later as I'd like to have some decent status handling in Instantbird 0.2
21:24:33 <devfil> flo, my idea doesn't looks bad
21:24:36 <flo> We will probably want to create a wiki page with all the information we can gather for each protocol in order to make a decent decision
21:24:47 <devfil> *doesn't look
21:25:02 <flo> oh, when you said "protocol", you mean the libpurple protocol plugin?
21:25:22 <devfil> nope, the documented official MSN protocol
21:25:40 <devfil> the message is called
21:25:40 <flo> I didn't know there was an official documentation
21:26:53 <devfil> it isn't, I mean the documentation written after studying the official msn protocol
21:27:02 <devfil> the documentation is of course unofficial
21:27:10 <flo> ok
21:27:17 <devfil> in the protocol specs the personal message is called PSM
21:27:21 <devfil> personal status message
21:27:41 <devfil> but in the official client it is not associated to status
21:27:52 <devfil> (it's used like facebook etc....)
21:28:07 <flo> where is it visible in the UI?
21:28:19 <devfil> under the name
21:29:41 <flo> but MSN users tend to also edit their display name to put a personal message there, right?
21:29:59 <devfil> flo, sometimes
21:30:05 <devfil> flo, http://www.msgpluslive.net/skins/uploads/Windows-Live-Messenger.jpg
21:30:10 <devfil> enter a personal message
21:30:35 <devfil> next to the avatar
21:30:48 <flo> is there also a status message on MSN?
21:30:55 <devfil> nope
21:31:02 <flo> :(
21:31:16 <devfil> in the official client the status message doesn't exist
21:31:20 <Mic> Is it possible to set status messages on libpurple if the status is not away/..? 
21:31:30 <devfil> Mic, yes
21:31:32 <flo> Mic: yes
21:31:47 <flo> in Instantbird there's no visible UI, but you can set it by typing /back <message> in any conversation
21:32:09 <Mic> So the message and the actual status are two different things?
21:32:55 <devfil> flo, my idea: two status messages, one like facebook, twitter etc... and the status message, if the status message is set msn set is as PSM, if it isn't set msn set the other one as PSM (facebook, twitter etc... ignore the status message, they only set the personal message)
21:33:00 <devfil> what do you think?
21:33:55 * flo goes away for about 20 minutes, then will be here for a few minutes or seconds, and then will go to sleep.
21:34:10 <flo> devfil: that's more or less what I had in mind the last time I thought about it.
21:34:45 <flo> we just need to make sure that this behavior is not going to be really painful with some other protocols, and check how we are going to handle the situation
21:34:57 <devfil> I think something like that would be fine
21:34:58 <devfil> ok
21:38:44 <Mic> How do you want to show what is used for what purpose in a good manner?
21:39:32 <devfil> Mic, something like "used in msn, aim, ..." etc? I don't know, that's the problem
21:39:54 <devfil> maybe a message while setting the message so the users can know how it is used
21:40:41 <Mic> (though I guess it is well-intented, I haven't figured out so far how things go into the news or live feed in Facebook ..)
21:43:45 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> woa, this looks interesting DLP must scroll up
21:53:43 <devfil> DetroitLibertyPenguin, your nick looks like a game of GTA series :D
21:59:45 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> I've also heard it sounds like a newspaper "read all about it in the DetroitLIbertyPenguin"
22:04:07 <flo> ok, thanks! good night, talk to you all later :)
22:05:47 <devfil> DetroitLibertyPenguin, lol
22:12:49 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> but, it comes from a political statement http://www.thecreativefactory.com/Libertypenguin/aboutLP.html
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23:24:08 <Mic> nn
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