All times are UTC.
00:05:11 <Mic> flo: I guess you might get a "reverse sort order" option for free (on the tree) 00:05:44 <flo> is there a use case for having the oldest conversation first? 00:07:29 <Mic> No idea, maybe some people prefer it that way (cf order in inbox of email clients) 00:08:31 <Mic> I need to sort the nodes anyways .. I guess giving this possibility is a matter of two lines 00:08:42 <flo> they are already sorted 00:09:41 <Mic> Insert a node into "Today" and therefore also into "Last seven days" and "This month" 00:09:50 <Mic> The groups are appended as they are created 00:10:29 <flo> have you seen the rationale for not duplicating (in the middle of the discussion about instantbot's logs processing with Morian)? 00:10:57 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !) 00:11:20 <Mic> I think you said you wanted to open everything by default 00:11:27 <flo> yes 00:11:40 <Mic> How is that related to the current issue? 00:11:41 <flo> so if you duplicate the rows, you will see them on screen several times 00:12:34 <Mic> You saw my points on what things will occure I you don't duplicate them? 00:14:01 <Mic> *if I 00:14:24 <flo> I think so, though I can't promise I understood well. 00:14:56 <Mic> Well it's late .. 00:15:04 <Mic> I'll explain tomorrow 00:15:07 <flo> the underlying problem is probably that we need to clarify the mental model around this tree 00:15:30 <flo> are we grouping some logs in several buckets, or proposing some search facility to display a selection of the entries? 00:15:37 <Mic> If you'd like to think about it: consider the last week overlapping with a new month 00:15:49 <flo> or are the "yesterday", ... indications only separators inside the list? 00:16:28 <Mic> For me it's grouping 00:16:34 <flo> Mic: ok, I see 00:18:07 <Mic> A tree doesn't exactly resemble a timeline for me 00:19:25 <flo> the time is the only relevant data here. 00:19:55 <flo> so I think that somehow the action of scrolling should be associated with going back in time 00:21:54 <Mic> In this case I'd say we shouldn't use a tree to display it. 00:21:57 <Mic> Not in such a way 00:22:40 <Mic> The tree includes grouping (elements with subelements) for me 00:23:05 <Mic> Maybe we should have a plain list like yours 00:23:19 <Mic> With separators that can collapse parts of the list 00:23:44 <flo> which is usually implemented by a tree ;) 00:23:49 <Mic> Every element at the same level as the other 00:23:55 <Mic> not at different depth 00:23:58 <Mic> depths 00:24:05 <flo> that's a tree with only one level 00:25:17 <Mic> .. 00:25:24 <flo> if the details of a tree that annoys you are the "+" and "-" signs for collapsable parts, you can replace them with a more appropriate icon 00:25:55 <Mic> It's the indentation 00:26:59 <Mic> If I use "plain list" and "tree" here, it is in terms of displaying it, not a matters of implementation (that the user doesn't have to care for) 00:27:12 <flo> ok :) 00:28:13 <flo> maybe one of the rare cases where I jump on implementation details too soon ;) 00:31:23 <flo> so, the "separators" we could use would be: today, yesterday, monday (if we suppose for this example that "today" = wednesday), last week, and... hmm, and I see no appropriate wording for "the days of this month that were before last week" :( 00:32:20 <vicnet> "this month" ? 00:32:42 <vicnet> wait, no... 00:32:58 <flo> yes... but the user will think "how come today is not part of this month?" 00:33:22 <vicnet> exactly... I typed faster than I thought :p 00:33:53 <flo> calendars are too complicated :( 00:33:54 <Mic> we could add a note: Go and look at "Today, we haven't added this group for nothing! 00:34:17 <Mic> my typing sucks .. :S 00:35:41 <vicnet> what if the separators were more like "markers", marking the passage from "yesterday" to "today", etc... then the "this month" marker would mark the passage from "last month" to "this month" 00:36:14 <Mic> In this case, the markers would be where they have to be in the timeline 00:36:33 <Mic> that is below the actual content of the section 00:37:15 <flo> so we would put "now" instead of "today"? 00:37:17 <Mic> "Today" is "where today started" ? 00:37:27 <Mic> vicnet: is that what you meant? 00:37:36 <vicnet> yes 00:37:44 <Mic> hmm .. 00:39:16 <flo> that would look so right if the timeline could be horizontal :-/ 00:42:17 <Mic> Is there something from Sunbird that we could recycle ..? 00:43:09 <Mic> If we knew when a chat ended we could draw the time range on days like events on this screenshot http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/images/sunbird-week-view.png 00:43:48 <Mic> well, nevermind 00:44:36 <flo> I may have a research student/intern working on a timeline-based view of events in a few weeks or months 00:46:01 <flo> the idea would be basically to draw a timeline (probably with a canvas), and put on it all the events (conversations, status change, (dis)connections, ...) related to all buddies 00:46:08 <Mic> Here's your task: put logs on a sort of cover-flow like calender where you can easily scroll through days in a fancy way ;) 00:46:21 <flo> :) 00:47:11 <flo> cover-flow UIs are nice with a good touchpad or any touchable surfaces (iPhones, ...) but I'm not sure that's good with a mouse 00:49:03 <Mic> "Grab&Drag" extension a pen with graphics tablet are a very cool thing 00:49:16 <Mic> I'm using it quite often while browsing the web 00:49:37 <Mic> Forgive my typos and grammar mistakes 00:49:41 <Mic> It's just too late 00:49:44 <Mic> Good night 00:49:48 <flo> yeah, it's late for me too ;) 00:49:49 <flo> good night :) 00:49:51 <vicnet> good night 00:49:53 <Morian> night 00:50:04 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 01:32:33 <vicnet> well, I'll leave too, good night 01:32:44 <-- vicnet has quit (Quit: bye) 01:34:14 <-- Ornthalas has quit (Quit: KTHXBYE) 03:22:53 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::) 06:08:37 --> goofy has joined #instantbird 06:12:06 <-- stevo has quit (Ping timeout) 06:36:38 <-- goofy has left #instantbird () 10:13:37 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 10:13:56 --> flo has joined #instantbird 10:13:56 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 10:14:23 <flo> hi :) 10:17:12 <instantbot> hi 10:38:15 --> Troy has joined #instantbird 10:57:32 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 11:10:48 <Mic> hi 11:20:03 <Troy> hi 11:59:53 <Chaz6> hi 12:13:49 <-- Troy has quit (Client exited) 12:54:45 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 12:54:45 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 12:56:26 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 13:10:15 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 13:13:48 <Mic> There was someone having a problem with updates .. does anyone remember any details of this? 13:14:23 <Morian> me 13:14:29 <Morian> and it is fixed 13:15:10 <Mic> ok :) 13:15:14 <Morian> the problem was a bad cache file for updates that told me that an update was applying 13:15:19 <Morian> but it wasn't applying 13:15:27 <Morian> deleting these cache file solved the problem 13:16:28 <Mic> I just experienced a problem where it said that it couldn't update 13:16:51 <Morian> it seems like a server was down tonight 13:17:11 <Mic> and asked to check if there's still a running instance of Instantbird (which proved to be true, seem to be hung somehow and only appeared in the task manager) 13:17:14 <Morian> the bot told me: Dude, I'm having a problem with FTP. Could you prod ftp.instantbird.org for me please? Or fix my config? Cheers. 13:31:39 <flo> what's the bot doing with ftp? 13:31:56 <Morian> he is checking whether there is a new file 13:32:12 <Morian> in nightlies 13:32:14 <Morian> I gues 13:40:34 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 13:44:03 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 13:44:59 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 14:00:22 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 14:05:51 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 14:11:27 <flo> Mic: do you think it would be a good idea to add a badge with the number of unread email messages above protocol icons in the buddy list status bar? 14:12:20 <Mic> Like these facebook new event notification? 14:12:42 <flo> hmm 14:12:44 <Mic> If you're familiar with them .. 14:12:45 * flo looks at facebook 14:12:59 <Mic> You need to have new events (on the lower right corner) 14:13:07 <flo> well, yes 14:13:41 <flo> but I'm not sure of how we can/want to handle the case when there are several accounts of the same protocol with regard to these new mail notiifcations 14:18:01 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 14:19:50 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 14:23:17 --> Troy has joined #instantbird 14:27:14 <Mic> Some hack: 14:27:15 <Mic> http://wiki.instantbird.org/File:Integrated_log_viewer.png 14:29:30 <-- Troy has quit (Client exited) 14:29:46 --> Troy has joined #instantbird 14:35:12 <flo> a new extension project? :) 14:35:35 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> I'll extend your project 14:47:13 <Mic> Just some idea 14:47:54 <Mic> Some thoughts on it are in the comment to the file 14:51:46 <Mic> flo: concerning the new message-badge .. are you working on such a bar with accounts/protocols or was that just an idea 14:52:14 <flo> I thought you had already started some experiments on that topic 14:52:38 <flo> so I wanted to share the thought about integrating new mail notifications in the same UI area 14:53:08 <Mic> What about putting it in the buddy list instead? 14:53:09 <flo> (I was discussing new-mail notifications (or rather the pain caused by the lack of these notifications) with Eventreur in a private gtalk conversation) 14:53:18 <Mic> Such a badge next to buddies that have new messages wiating? 14:53:52 <flo> I think it's a good idea to associate the count of unread messages with the buddies who sent them 14:54:14 <flo> and it would probably even be useful to add a system message at the begining of new conversations with these buddies 14:54:34 <flo> so that we can see quickly the title of new unread emails from that person before replying or asking a silly question :) 14:54:54 <flo> but we need to handle the case of emails coming from unknown people, so we probably still need something more generic 14:55:25 <Mic> This is about _emails_? 14:55:46 <flo> yes 14:56:02 <Mic> First time I thought it was a mistake .. 14:56:26 <Mic> How do you get the unread email status? 14:58:19 <flo> some protocols handle it (and libpurple handles it) 14:58:26 <flo> MSN and Google Talk for sure 14:58:28 <flo> maybe AIM too 15:06:35 <Mic> ok 15:06:41 <Troy> hi 15:08:29 <flo> I'm not sure we have the topics and senders for all the protocols, maybe only the total count for all protocols 15:09:50 <Troy> flo, you can do so in the Options window in Windows 7 as in Firefox (aero)? 15:11:11 <Troy> I mean icons in the options window. 15:39:12 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 15:39:47 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 15:43:48 <Troy> flo 15:55:52 <-- Mic has quit (Connection reset by peer) 15:56:32 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 16:00:52 --> stevo has joined #instantbird 16:07:43 <-- Mic has quit (Connection reset by peer) 16:47:57 <-- Troy has quit (Client exited) 16:54:01 --> Troy has joined #instantbird 17:27:56 --> vicnet has joined #instantbird 17:29:11 <flo> hmm, the participants list of chatrooms seems to be the only part of the main UI where we still don't have a context menu providing useful actions 17:45:14 <vicnet> hello :) 17:45:26 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 294 filed by florian@instantbird.org. 17:45:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=294 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Handle the case where no logs are available 17:56:01 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 18:28:55 <Mic> One more idea: 18:28:59 <Mic> http://wiki.instantbird.org/images/0/09/Single_piece_tabs.png 18:29:40 <Mic> A very minor change, but it makes the tab look more like a single piece in my opinion 18:31:37 <flo> it will probably look like that once we have an area with information about the buddy/topic for all conversations 18:35:24 <Mic> I've got a piece of code to select the account from which you write lying around btw .. it needs a minor c-code change to make the account field writable on conversations if I recall correctly 18:36:11 <flo> I think you recall correctly, except for the word "minor" which is probably left to determine :) 18:36:40 <Mic> hehe 18:36:52 <flo> may I see this code? 18:37:14 <Mic> Wait a minute 18:51:48 <Mic> Or maybe half an hour .. ;) 18:52:59 <Mic> It's a mess but here's parts of it .. 18:53:04 <Mic> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/693739 18:53:27 <Mic> It definitely contains code to experiment with creating a new conversation which failed afaik 18:54:26 <Mic> Consider it as a how-to sketch of the idea 18:58:22 * flo looks forward to 0.3 19:00:09 <Mic> The thing I posted doesn't contain the status message of the buddy and what else we discussed 19:01:14 <flo> and it's still in a work in progress state ;) 19:01:49 <flo> if I remember well, the thing I had to change in purplexpcom for this was to make the "account" attribute of conversations settable 19:01:57 <Mic> I think so 19:02:08 <flo> I'm not sure if that really makes senses for MUCs 19:02:33 <flo> would you like to have an easy way to join #instantbird on your freenode account from this conversation tab? 19:02:35 <flo> I don't think so 19:03:00 <flo> or maybe for IRC you should filter accounts that have the same server name after the @ in the account name 19:04:24 <Mic> What environment are you using when working on the xul/javascript parts? 19:04:47 <flo> what do you mean by environment exactly? 19:04:59 <Mic> A sort of IDE or such 19:05:01 <flo> I use Carbon Emacs on a macbook 19:05:46 <Mic> hmm 19:06:07 <flo> I recently wrote a shell script that rebuilds the instantbird/ folder and then starts my debug build automatically, wait until it is closed, and starts again 19:06:38 <flo> this way, when I want to test what I've just edited, I only have to close my debug instantbird and wait a few seconds for the "new" version to automatically open :) 19:07:12 <Mic> Maybe I should do something like that .. so far I'm working on an uncompressed copy of the code and have to transfer my changes to the hg folder later 19:07:30 <Mic> It's bad. 19:07:46 <-- Troy has quit (Client exited) 19:07:58 <flo> especially for code that has ifdef's 19:09:28 <Mic> Notepad sometimes sucks :S 19:09:57 <Mic> Just kidding .. I'm using a proper editor ;) 19:10:05 <flo> :) 19:11:51 <Mic> gtg 19:11:54 <Mic> Have a nice evening 19:12:14 <flo> see you 19:12:17 <flo> (enjoy the films?) 19:13:00 <Mic> No, we're going to spend an evening in a nice cafe with live music and so on .. 19:13:16 <Mic> cu 19:13:16 <flo> :) 19:13:44 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 19:19:57 <-- vicnet has quit (Quit: bye) 19:20:30 --> vicnet has joined #instantbird 19:25:33 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> Notepad++! 19:29:27 <-- vicnet has quit (Quit: bye) 19:33:13 --> vicnet has joined #instantbird 19:33:30 <vicnet> oooh, pretty colors :) 19:34:08 <flo> :) 19:34:14 <-- stevo has quit (Ping timeout) 19:39:36 --> stevo has joined #instantbird 20:57:14 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird 20:57:14 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2b1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/." 20:57:14 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 20:57:32 <Morian> wb instantbot my love 20:57:44 <instantbot> ... 20:58:43 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 22:59:53 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 23:06:46 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 23:20:49 <-- vicnet has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 23:31:53 --> vicnet has joined #instantbird 23:34:32 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2pre) 23:43:50 <-- stevo has quit (Client exited)