#instantbird log on 11 14 2009

All times are UTC.

00:03:09 <Mic> nn
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09:38:21 <iLobster> greetings
09:53:06 <flo> hi
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10:15:41 <iLobster> I've noticed what that new option "notify of messages received in inactive window" display buddy icon (avatar) if it's available now ("old" addon MessageNotifier displays only picture of envelope). And there is the problem - size of that buddy icon (avatar). Some buddyes uses 32x32 pics, some use 128x128 pics. So when buddy with 128x128 avatar send me a message - i get really big popup...
10:15:43 <iLobster> ...window with his avatar in all it's glory. May be it's will be good to add option "do not use buddy avatars in notification windows" and use envelope icon in all popups if it's checked or - to resize all avatars in noify popups to one dimensions - 32x32 for example... Since it's not a bug i do not know where to post it, that's why i write it here... =)
10:46:52 <flo> we should set a max size for the icon
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11:54:23 <Mic> hej
11:56:18 <flo> hey :)
11:57:21 <Mic> I put a patch for the sound menu item on pastebin btw
11:57:45 <flo> my Instantbird crashed this night a few minutes after I went to bed. I feel betrayed! I had to check instantbot's log to see what happened here :-D.
11:57:52 <flo> yes, I saw that :)
12:00:07 <flo> aaah, it's nice to have an up to date lxr :)
12:01:49 <flo> Mic: by the way, why didn't you remove all the observer stuff that is not used anymore?
12:02:05 <flo> maybe even all the prefbranch stuff is unused
12:03:59 <Mic> no problem, I can remove that as well if you like
12:04:50 <Mic> Maybe the reasoning that "we might need it again soon" is not that good
12:04:58 <Mic> but that was the idea why I kept it in ..
12:05:43 <Mic> It's useless code right now, I admit
12:06:16 <flo> "we might need it again soon" is exactly why we use a version control system that can show old revisions of any file ;)
12:09:10 <Mic> brb
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12:15:35 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/57
12:17:16 <flo> isn't this the same as yesterday?
12:17:28 <flo> yes, the exact same url!
12:19:37 <Mic> 58 then
12:19:56 <Mic> Strange.. Firefox doesn't update the URL bar right now
12:20:16 <Mic> I wondered as well and thought it might be an "update posting" feature of pastebin that I don't know or such :D
12:24:09 <flo> that code will look much cleaner :)
12:24:32 <Mic> There's nothing in menus.js then that needs being called at loading
12:24:53 <flo> and that's great, because on mac we will need to put the menus on every window!
12:24:59 <Mic> I removed the onload menus.init and the onload event listener as well
12:25:23 <flo> I saw that :)
12:26:04 <flo> the "Add Buddy" and "Join Chat" menu items disabled ness will still be annoying :-/
12:26:31 <Mic> On windows other than the buddy list?
12:26:36 <flo> yes
12:26:43 <flo> on mac the menubar is at the top of the screen
12:26:49 <Mic> :P
12:26:51 <Mic> Really?
12:27:09 <flo> well, I won't fix all the windows
12:27:19 <flo> but we need to fix at least the account manager and the conversations windows
12:30:11 <Mic> Why does the join chat menu item be disabled for conversation windows?
12:31:33 <flo> it is disabled when no account that can join chats is connected
12:33:07 <Mic> ah, ok. I thought you wanted it removed/disabled on conversation windows in general
12:33:23 <flo> that would be easier :)
12:33:33 <flo> display:none :-P
12:33:48 <flo> ah well, that's not disabled
12:43:25 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/59
12:44:09 <Mic> That's a fix for updating the "update" menuitem on the menu
12:44:37 <Mic> displayUpdateStatus() seems to check for the current status and change the menuitem accordingly
12:44:56 <Mic> It wasn't adapted when I moved the update-item to the help menu
12:45:03 <flo> oh!
12:45:25 <Mic> Now it should update on opening the menu
12:45:42 <flo> :)
12:46:01 <flo> we can also update the "File" menu when opening it!
12:46:03 <flo> :)
12:50:37 <flo> by the way, yesterday I wrote down a list of the projects that I still have in mind for 0.2, I guess I could as well have shared it: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/60
12:52:04 <flo> totally unrelated: wouldn't it be nice if we could decide which icon to display for some chatrooms? Like for #instantbird we could use a 16*16 instantbird logo!
12:52:27 * flo adds that to the wikipage about suggested addons
12:58:26 <Mic> "13:46:02 - flo: we can also update the "File" menu when opening it!" as fix for the add buddy/join chat problem?
12:58:29 <Mic> yes ..
12:58:41 <flo> yes :)
12:59:07 <flo> that would simplify some ugly code that is still in blist.js
12:59:28 <flo> at some point (probably 0.3), we want to be able to close the buddy list without closing the application, and so reopening the buddy list
12:59:40 <Mic> Same for conversation windows?
12:59:43 <flo> so the code in blist.xul/js should be only related to ... displaying the buddy list :)
13:00:38 <Mic> I thought we could just 'hide' tabs when 'closing' them, putting a timestamp with the time of closing on them
13:00:48 <Mic> and cleaning up the list after a while ..
13:01:08 <Mic> so re-opening a tab is just a matter of showing it again (if it's not too far in the past)
13:01:52 <flo> that's for a way to undo closing a tab?
13:02:00 <flo> would you also hide the whole window?
13:02:14 <Mic> I'm not sure how to treat closing the last tab
13:02:36 <Mic> It's a little ugly solution now that I think of it
13:03:06 <Mic> Having a single way of showing old chat content and just doing that on opening tabs again might be nicer
13:03:21 <flo> that's more work
13:03:30 <Mic> A lot mroe work
13:03:44 <flo> I'd love to be able to reload completely a conversation or a part (the last few lines) of a conversation
13:03:45 <Mic> We'd need a proper history format before and such..
13:04:00 <flo> but we need a correct handling of logs for that, so it's probably not possible until 0.4
13:04:23 <flo> so quick and hackish solutions may be interesting in the meantime
13:05:20 <Mic> hmm, hmm ..
13:05:26 <Mic> there's so much stuff lying around here
13:06:26 <Mic> half-ready account selection from chats, half-ready link rewriter using the textModifier, ..
13:06:34 <Mic> One day I wanted to do the completion :S
13:06:51 <flo> :)
13:07:06 <flo> I also have many stuff I've started and not finished
13:07:12 <Mic> oh, the quick connect for accounts is also there somewhere
13:07:24 <flo> I have 2 half-implemented windows system tray icon. Maybe even 3!
13:07:49 <flo> I have some code for the nicklist displayed with a tree
13:08:05 <Mic> Now I'm more busy than I was in the last half of the year .. but I'm getting more things done right now
13:08:06 <flo> a few half debugged ugly bugs :)
13:08:29 <Mic> Because I just have to plan more efficiently what to do and not do do :D
13:08:32 <flo> "the quick connect for accounts", is that the status bar of the buddy list or something else?
13:08:36 <Mic> yep
13:08:40 <flo> :)
13:08:52 <flo> did you write some code about it or just the image mockup?
13:08:59 <Mic> I did some parts
13:09:04 <flo> cool!
13:09:08 <Mic> grouping accounts according to protocols
13:09:17 <Mic> minor things ..
13:09:36 <Mic> I know what the toolbarmenu has to look like in code
13:09:39 <Mic> such things
13:09:57 <Mic> but I need to monitor accounts status changes and I didn't feel like doing that until now
13:10:30 <Mic> A submenu on the menu bar would be easier, I could update it onpopupshowing
13:10:37 <flo> I'm not going to touch that today, and probably not in the next few days. But I'd really like to have that for 0.2, so it would be nice to share the code if you feel like you are not going to get to it before I do
13:11:06 <flo> you can probably copy/paste some code from the account manager window about that
13:11:30 <Mic> good idea
13:15:18 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/62
13:15:41 <flo> yes
13:17:28 <Mic> 123 page views on the extension wishlist ..
13:17:41 <flo> google bot probably accounts for most of these :-D
13:17:45 <Mic> That wasn't just us editing and reloading the page .. people actually look at it
13:18:13 <flo> have we linked that page from somewhere?
13:18:21 <Mic> Sure
13:18:34 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Developer
13:18:51 <flo> ah, right :)
13:19:03 <Mic> This page needs a rework as well
13:19:31 <flo> should be "tab-improvement" and "prefwindow-improvements" pages be linked to from the roadmap page?
13:20:20 <Mic> Ithink right now they're even orphaned pages 
13:20:32 <Mic> So having a link from somewhere would be a good idea
13:20:44 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Special:LonelyPages
13:21:24 <flo> "Creating a new localization (Mercurial)" should not be orphaned!
13:21:36 * flo needs to review our l10n documentation again
13:21:58 <flo> what are these 2 russian pages? spam?
13:22:15 <Mic> nope
13:22:35 <Mic> Someone tried to translate the main page and some other afai can tell
13:23:03 <flo> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Cleanup is still not done. That's sad :(
13:23:15 <Mic> I think we should keep the wiki 'single language' though
13:23:17 <flo> for 0.3 maybe
13:23:54 <flo> yeah, I think the wiki should stay en-US only. At least, as long as we see it as a developer tool
13:24:43 <flo> I would not be opposed to having each localization team sharing some stuff there, but that should be at an address showing clearly what the point of the page is :)
13:26:37 <Mic> I guess I shouldn't ask how many localization teams are there right now;)
13:26:58 <flo> given how we said "no" every time someone asked, not that many ;)
13:27:38 <flo> this page looks like useless crap: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:KeyFeatures
13:28:33 * flo deletes
13:28:35 <Mic> Use your mighty admins powers on it then
13:36:12 <flo> about the "Open new conversations in [ tabs | separate windows ]" suggestion: the preference doesn't apply only to new conversations.
13:36:32 <flo> if you uncheck "open conversations in tabs", then all tabs are changed to separate windows
13:40:51 <Mic> then it shouldn't say 'new conversations' in the description
13:41:24 <flo> right, that description isn't correct
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14:03:10 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/63
14:03:54 <Mic> That just includes removing the "Sounds" string from the en-US locale
14:03:55 <flo> I only see the additionnal removal of the localizable string. Is there another difference?
14:04:01 <flo> :)
14:04:24 <Mic> hmm, let's do a diff of the diffs :D 
14:04:45 <flo> I'm not a fan of second order diffs
14:05:52 <Mic> There's one things worse than that
14:06:03 <Mic> _partial_ second order diffs :P
14:07:53 <flo> ok, I guess I should commit these 2 patches so that I can forget about them without feeling guilty and without you having to ping about it in a few hours or days
14:08:43 <Mic> lol, am I that persistent on such things?
14:09:16 <flo> I hope so at least. I would feel even more guilty to forget them if you don't ping about it later!
14:10:02 <Mic> I'm afraid it's different
14:10:30 <Mic> It's more an offer of help
14:10:45 <Mic> and ofcourse it's up to anyone to take it or not.
14:10:52 <flo> sure! but not taking advantage of it is discouraging
14:11:07 <flo> especially when the work was done correctly
14:12:48 <flo> when offering help, it's not correct to not receive feedback
14:17:08 <Mic> feedback yes, but not necessarily gratitude ;)
14:25:05 <flo> you have a strange diff tool
14:25:15 <flo> but that's not the first time I say that :-D
14:26:11 <Mic> I have tortouisehg
14:26:33 <Mic> It's copied from the diff screen that popups up 'oncommit'
14:26:55 <Mic> *TortoiseHG
14:32:08 <Mic> Did you check whether the displayUpdate patch creates proper code or not?
14:32:21 <Mic> I couldn't try it but I think it is correct
14:35:21 <flo> I'm editing it
14:35:49 <flo> on mac the menuitem is not actually in the tools menu
14:35:59 <flo> it gets hidden and move automatically to the application menu
14:36:37 <Mic> ah, so it doesn't take the update method being called on opening the tools menu
14:36:45 <Mic> or is that .. related somehow?
14:36:50 <flo> yes
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14:44:02 <Mic> I think keeping people updated is good, so they come again and check what's going on.
14:44:13 <flo> yes
14:44:21 <flo> do you think using twitter would be a good idea?
14:44:37 <Mic> So what about a box on the wiki frontpage that says what the current 'construction sites' are
14:45:21 <flo> why not the main instantbird.com frontpage? :)
14:45:27 <flo> a "what's going on?" box
14:45:34 <Mic> jo
14:45:39 <Mic> yes
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15:21:43 <Mic> hello Matt
15:22:00 <Mic> (as long as we have no completion, people have to live with abbreviated nicknames;)
15:24:57 <flo> uh. I was wrong about the "it gets hidden and move automatically to the application menu"
15:25:15 <flo> that's what should happen if an old mozilla bug was finally fixed. It's not yet the case
15:37:02 <MattATobin> hey
15:37:59 <MattATobin> i wanted to report yesterdays nightly has worked flawlessly and is however more advanced then the version i downloaded... i guess it was the general alpha preview i downloaded
15:38:24 <MattATobin> and as i said yesterday i have switched exclusivly to instantbird
15:39:30 <flo> :)
15:40:07 <MattATobin> i would like to make a minor cosmetic suggestion... make the accounts box window size and position persistant
15:41:29 <Mic> Add a small border around the account list so it is better defined from the background
15:42:58 <MattATobin> Mic: its based on the download manager box of firefox for mozilla standards and commonality in presentation i would recommend agenst it
15:43:21 <Mic> I'm aware that it is designed according to the download manager
15:43:37 <Mic> which doesn't necessarily mean that everything is good ;)
15:44:00 <MattATobin> true
15:44:11 <MattATobin> however im fine with its design
15:44:19 <Mic> I find it too packed .. but I'm not bringing that topic up again
15:44:35 <MattATobin> mic everyone is entiled to their optinion
15:44:50 <Mic> Sure, but flo got more than necessary of my opinion on that already
15:45:23 <flo> "make the accounts box window size and position persistant" I thought it was already the case
15:46:02 <Mic> I don't go along with 'save screen real estate for any price' but I guess there will be more than enough occasions when I can bring that up again
15:46:08 * flo just tested: the position is already persistant, but not the size
15:46:22 <MattATobin> maybe that was it
15:46:33 <MattATobin> but yeah size is more important i think
15:46:55 <flo> persisting the position of windows may work more or less depending on the OS, that that's a bug in Mozilla if it's broken on a specitif OS
15:47:25 <MattATobin> i guess it is persistant and your right the size is not
15:47:34 <flo> that's easy to check
15:47:40 <flo> you open it, move it, close it, reopen it
15:47:45 <MattATobin> i did lol
15:47:51 <MattATobin> just now to make sure
15:48:16 <Mic> Size is not persistant on Windows
15:48:42 <Mic> Position is persistant to upper left corner (which was sort of predictable;)
15:48:50 <MattATobin> but the size remaining persistant between sessions is important to me especialy until we can arrange the buddy list as we see fit because i connect to all five services and want a specific order for each medium group in my list
15:49:13 <flo> I have a friend who keeps reporting that the position of the buddy list is persisted (on Windows) but that it is lost each time there is a restart for an update (but not when just closing and relaunching instantbird)
15:49:20 <flo> I haven't had time to try to reproduce
15:49:30 <MattATobin> i will
15:49:35 <MattATobin> give me a second
15:49:58 <Mic> It sometimes moves away from the position it had between restarts, can't tell when
15:50:25 <MattATobin> position is is constent between closing and opening and between sessions
15:50:26 <Mic> It's going to upper left corner of the screen during such an event
15:51:33 <MattATobin> since resizing isnt persistant in anyway if u resize the up left corner becomes its orgin when it respawns but back to the default size
15:51:49 <flo> which window are you talking about?
15:51:54 <MattATobin> account manager
15:53:28 <MattATobin> no matter where you place the window it will respawn there when opening and closing and between sessions... however if u resize and close and respawn it will be back to default size but is still in the same location but not as large
15:54:42 <Mic> Afaik Windows on WIndows are defined by upper left corner and their height/width
15:55:02 <Mic> The origion of the coordinate system is the upper left corner of the screen
15:55:04 <MattATobin> right
15:55:28 <MattATobin> which does remain persistant im sure a small bit of code stolen from the addons window will fix it
15:56:26 <flo> MattATobin: Stop talking about the size of the account manager. We know it's broken, and I'm fixing it for the next nightly. I'm a bit confused about the position: do you mean that it is persisted if you close the account manager before the application but not if you close the application with the account manager window still open?
15:58:53 <MattATobin> sorry it seems persistent
16:00:30 <Mic> flo: for me it does never keep the size, but always the position
16:00:47 <Mic> no matter what I close in which order
16:01:21 <flo> so what was this about: "16:49:58 - Mic: It sometimes moves away from the position it had between restarts, can't tell when. [...] It's going to upper left corner of the screen during such an event"
16:01:59 <Mic> This was about the buddy list problems mentioned right before of that
16:02:17 <flo> ok :)
16:02:18 <Mic> Sticking to a single topic would help :S
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16:03:20 <flo> that's actually the topic I'm interested in
16:03:29 <Mic> The buddy list usually stays where it was. Sometimes it will be as much to the upper left of the screen as possible.
16:03:37 <flo> I lost interest in the size of the account manager after I commited the fix ;)
16:03:56 <Mic> I can't tell if it at least keeps its size 
16:06:41 <Mic> ah .. I wondered why you said you'd commit my patches and instantbot didn't report them. But yes, there is a difference between committing and pushing;)
16:06:43 <flo> maybe the next time it happens, try to think about how this startup is different from the previous ones?
16:07:05 <Mic> I'll do
16:07:16 <flo> yes, I haven't pushed yet :)
16:07:43 <flo> there are 2 other things I'd like to do today before pushing
16:09:12 <MattATobin> flo: sorry for being pushy or w/e
16:09:19 <MattATobin> :(
16:11:25 <flo> don't worry, it's ok ;).
16:11:59 <flo> it's just better when we all talk about the same subject! Well, not always "better", but more productive :)
16:18:18 <MattATobin> i get it
16:20:34 <flo> when I said "Stop talking about..." I didn't mean "shut up", but just that it wasn't adding any value to your point that I already got ;).
16:24:31 <MattATobin> i get it
16:26:15 <MattATobin> hmm i dont seen to see anything else within the latest nightly that is a problem
16:26:57 <MattATobin> seems to function quite well
16:27:00 <Mic> :)
16:27:23 <Mic> Someone actually TESTING nightlies ;)
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16:27:39 <flo> :)
16:28:38 <Mic> I guess sooner or later everybody goes 'Testing nightlies? I just want that cool new feature!'
16:28:59 <flo> that's the reason why they are "hidden"
16:30:03 <flo> we probably loose some real testers, but we also avoid many people wasting our time
16:31:19 <MattATobin> i was skimming the blog and saw something about adding new libpurple protocols as extentions... perhaps makeing them all extentions disable and enableable in the addons manager... tho it would be helpful if we could add a protocols tab to the addons manager tho i think this would require taking it out of toolkit
16:31:42 <flo> :)
16:32:11 <MattATobin> and that wouldnt be a good idea to take addons out of toolkit
16:32:31 <flo> there's been quite a bit of thinking about how we can customize the account manager to be better for our purpose without adding too much work to maintain it.
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16:33:17 <MattATobin> well that would be the perfect place for the protocols
16:33:20 <flo> I think adding (with an overlay) a menulist at the top of the "Extensions" tab that would act like a filter could be interesting.
16:33:55 <flo> there would be in the menuitem "All" [selected by default], "Message Styles", "Emoticon themes", "Sounds themes", ...
16:35:59 <flo> instantbot: prefwindow is <reply>http://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:prefwindow
16:36:00 <instantbot> flo: ok
16:37:22 <MattATobin> flo can you call a particular tab from the addons manager inside of the options box without moving it out of toolkit?
16:37:42 <MattATobin> as in being inside of the options window?
16:38:02 <flo> I don't think so
16:39:38 <MattATobin> so if i understand correctly you may have to sacarfise commonality with toolkit and do it your self
16:40:14 <flo> Or not do it at all.
16:40:22 <MattATobin> true
16:40:38 <flo> There's no obligation of putting some parts of the addon manager in the pref window
16:41:12 <MattATobin> and theres no way to add things to addons without the same result
16:41:24 <flo> uh?
16:42:02 <flo> we can add an overlay above the toolkit addon manager window
16:42:16 <MattATobin> right sorry i blanked out for a second
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16:49:38 <Mic> flo: can we distinguish extensions at the moment?
16:49:58 <Mic> I know that messagestyles have to start with "messagestyle-" in the extension name, but other than that ..?
16:50:33 <Mic> ok, "emoticons-" as well
16:51:32 <flo> others are "regular extensions" :)
16:52:10 <Mic> maybe making the same requirement for protocols would be good
16:52:21 <Mic> there are no custom protocols beside the (broken) facebook plugin
16:52:27 <Mic> so that is still easy to change
17:00:58 <flo> except that we have no way to enforce it
17:01:45 <flo> the special names are used to know that there's a theme to load there
17:02:09 <flo> for protocol plugins, the libpurple plugin is just bundled inside a regular xpcom component that mozilla loads automatically
17:50:19 <MattATobin> flo: what if we required ext- for extensions and theme- for themes... and have it reject addons that dont corrispond with the nameing conventions
17:50:37 <MattATobin> we = you
17:50:40 <flo> define "it"
17:51:04 <flo> that's part of toolkit. And probably even in C++ code
17:51:05 * instantbot frowns at flo
17:51:12 <MattATobin> figures
17:51:25 <MattATobin> all the bots hate C++
17:51:37 <flo> instantbot: C++ is <reply>I love C++, hmm... what... what did I say?
17:51:40 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'C++ is <reply>I love C++, hmm... what... what did I say' might be.
17:51:47 <flo> -_-
17:52:03 <flo> instantbot: C++
17:52:18 <MattATobin> C++ code
17:52:21 <flo> that's slow, it is probably asking firebot :-D
17:52:31 <Morian> I think that I disabled that feature :p
17:52:38 <flo> asking firebot?
17:52:48 <MattATobin> well firebot deffently hates C++
17:52:51 <Morian> no, telling lies about ++
17:52:53 <Morian> c++ *
17:52:54 <Morian> XD
17:53:04 <Morian> (and pidgin)
17:53:25 <MattATobin> instantbot: what is C++
17:53:26 <instantbot> MattATobin: I have heard that c++ is a programming language that is used in most applications throughout the industry. C++ in itself is platform independent, but to display windows, widgets and the like one needs... (rest /msged)
17:53:28 <flo> maybe you can add some about digsb... ?
17:53:53 <Morian> tss
17:53:56 <flo> Morian: it still said "18:51:05 * instantbot frowns at flo"
17:54:03 <Morian> ah
17:54:14 <Morian> so there's an internal cooldown :p
17:54:21 <flo> ahha
17:55:17 <MattATobin> instantbot: do you like C++ code?
17:55:21 <instantbot> MattATobin: Sorry, I've no idea what 'do you like C++ code' might be.
17:56:10 <Morian> instantbot is a clone of firebot with a few changes, don't expect him to be smart ^^'
17:56:12 <instantbot> Morian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'is a clone of firebot with a few changes, don't expect him to be smart ^^'' might be.
17:56:17 <Morian> -_-
17:56:26 <MattATobin> instantbot: what is firebot
17:56:27 <instantbot> MattATobin: firebot is a jerk
17:56:32 <MattATobin> heh
17:56:45 <flo> hmm, I don't remember if there's a real use for the "stringbundleset" XUL tag or if it's just to make the code look more ordered :-S
17:56:47 <MattATobin> haha!
17:57:27 <Morian> instantbot: status
17:57:28 <instantbot> Morian: I have 1057 factoids in my database and 1 bot friend to help me answer questions. Since the last reload, I've been asked 5 questions, performed 52 edits, and spoken with other bots 6 times.
17:57:29 <instantbot> Morian: I've been up 1 day.
18:00:38 <Mic> "18:01:00 - flo: except that we have no way to enforce it" it would be just an approach to bring order to the chaos ;)
18:01:19 <Mic> If someone's not respecting it, you could still refuse to make it pulic on the addons page
18:02:01 <Mic> If that's 'enforcing it' enough
18:02:30 <flo> in some way that would work
18:02:44 <flo> except that it would annoy both addon reviewers and addon authors :)
18:06:18 <flo> instantbot: who is Mic?
18:06:19 <instantbot> flo: mic is that addon ready yet
18:06:34 <Mic> !
18:06:35 <Mic> ?
18:06:43 <flo> who put that in instantbot's memory?
18:07:05 <Mic> hmm, I think I remember someone asking me for an addon once
18:07:14 <flo> :)
18:07:40 <Mic> Actually I found a half-ready addon (one more of these things) in my instantbird project folder and wondered who requested it
18:08:15 <Mic> It was definitely nothing I did on my own instigation
18:10:48 <flo> what is it about?
18:11:08 <Mic> I think it's supposed to block messages from people not in the buddy list
18:11:41 <Mic> There was some problem if I remember correctly and I didn't pursue it
18:12:22 <Mic> The idea is pretty good in principle and could be a default option for privacy imo
18:13:04 <flo> probably, if we find a way to implement it correctly
18:13:29 <flo> I'd like to have a way to block nickserv and similarly annoying tabs that I have at each connection.
18:14:02 <flo> I've no idea of how we can do it without closing the conversation after each refused message (and so causing libpurple to create a separate log file for each message!)
18:14:02 <Mic> Why don't you use 'Ignore this user'
18:14:10 <Chaz6> Hey flo, it would be nice to have some more useful messages when trying to connect to an ssl irc server
18:14:25 <Chaz6> I tried the other day, installed the network's root ca certificate, but couldn't connect
18:14:39 <flo> what did it say?
18:14:44 <Chaz6> Ah hold on
18:15:00 <flo> and how did you install the certificate?
18:15:36 <Chaz6> Options->Advanced->Encryption->View Certificates->Import
18:16:05 <flo> oh, so that's a recent attempt :)
18:16:40 <Chaz6> Error: SSL Connection failed
18:17:28 <flo> is there something interesting in the error console?
18:19:15 <Chaz6> Error: Connection attempt failed: Windows socket error #10014
18:19:17 <Chaz6> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/20fb0a83aa9d/purple/libpurple/proxy.c
18:19:19 <Chaz6> Line: 578
18:19:21 <Chaz6> Source Code:
18:19:23 <Chaz6> proxy: purple_proxy_connect_data_disconnect
18:19:28 <Chaz6> Maybe because it's an ipv6 server?
18:19:33 <flo> maybe
18:19:40 <flo> are you sure you are connecting on the right port?
18:19:44 <Chaz6> Yes, 6697
18:20:03 <Chaz6> Same port i connect in this client
18:20:58 <flo> http://support.ipswitch.com/kb/WSK-19980714-EM04.htm
18:21:19 <flo> that seems to indicate it doesn't like your ipv6 address
18:21:42 <Chaz6> Well I'm using a dns name which has AAAA RRs
18:21:53 <Chaz6> Same one i use for this client
18:23:59 <Chaz6> If i try a dns name that has both AAAA and A it will try the ipv6 addresses first, fail then continue with the ipv4 addresses
18:35:22 <flo> so the failure is really related to the ipv6 connection?
18:38:06 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
18:40:25 <Chaz6> It seems that way
18:40:32 <Chaz6> Misleading message :)
18:40:58 <Chaz6> Or at least, not as informative as it could be
18:41:04 <Chaz6> But really it's a bug
18:43:00 <Chaz6> Host is XPSP3 x86
18:48:47 * flo lacks of enthusiasm for trying and debugging ipv6 stuff
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19:00:12 <Mic> Another preference window fix :)
19:06:16 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/64
19:11:36 <flo> should this code check first if an existing engine manager window is already opened?
19:11:45 <flo> the code in Firefox seems to do that: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/components/search/content/search.xml#422
19:12:23 <Mic> I admit I haven't thought of that 
19:24:35 <Mic> ok, fixed
19:25:01 <Mic> It can't be opened more than one time from the preferences window, though it is possible from the conversation browser
19:25:26 <Mic> (i.e. we need to fix nsContextMenu.js)
19:27:44 <flo> isn't there a function somewhere that does the check automatically?
19:28:47 <Mic> Apparently not
19:30:49 <flo> it's probably in the wrong file then :(
19:31:23 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/instantbird/preferences/main.js#52
19:32:18 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/instantbird/menus.js#49
19:33:09 <flo> hmm, this code seems obsolete: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/instantbird/blist.js#198
19:33:37 <flo> since I added pref("toolkit.singletonWindowType", "Messenger:blist");
19:34:30 <flo> oh well, I will clean that up for 0.3 when rewriting the buddy list
19:34:57 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/65
19:35:18 <Mic> Fixed both, but didn't use any of the functions you just looked up
19:41:56 <flo> Morian: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/66
19:43:05 <flo> do you know the point of the setTimeout in that code?
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19:45:26 <flo> it was added in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232272#c80 "- open the dialog on a timeout to avoid modality weirdness (dropdown opening when making changes)"
19:47:11 <flo> going to eat, back later!
19:53:20 <Mic> I thought that was related to the 'Morian'-comment .. will look at it later
20:10:21 * Morian is very busy these days, a lot of projects to do and internship interviews to prepare
20:34:59 <Mic> We should find a place to link to this: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Wiki
20:35:28 <Mic> It lists some useful Instantbird specific things (templates right now)
20:35:48 <Mic> *Instantbird-wiki-specific
20:43:05 <-- Tro has left #instantbird ()
21:21:10 <flo> Mic: when editing a page, at the bottom of the form, there's a link " Editing help", which points to the non-existent page: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Help:Editing
21:24:25 <Mic> hmm, just moved the page to this new name
21:24:43 <Mic> should do for the time being
21:29:19 <flo> :)
21:46:06 <-- m513901 has left #instantbird ()
21:47:08 <Mic> I'm not sure what you wanted to point out for me at with the bug report
21:57:29 <flo> oh, it was just that I answered my own question: "the point of the setTimeout in that code". I looked up when/why it was added in Firefox.
21:57:42 <flo> and I pointed to the place where I found the information
22:07:29 <Mic> I think we should treat middle clicks on URLs like left clicks
22:07:56 <Mic> Firefox would open a new tab and right now nothing is happening on middle clicks
22:08:44 <flo> do you know where we can patch this?
22:09:03 <Mic> Not yet
22:09:07 <flo> ok :)
22:09:24 <flo> I don't remember how this works
22:09:54 <flo> I'm refactoring the menu code
22:09:55 <Mic> lxr is uptodate you say?
22:14:27 <flo> mostly, yes. I updated it 2 days ago
22:15:19 <flo> I wrote down all the commands I executed, so I guess the next time I touch it I'll just put that in the crontable :)
22:16:07 <MattATobin> flo: may i divert the topic for a second
22:16:21 <flo> of course!
22:16:29 <MattATobin> flo: i do have a consern that needs to be addressed very quickly... the passwords are stored in plain text format
22:16:45 <flo> yes
22:18:02 <flo> we need to put them in the mozilla password manager so that the poweruser can decide to use a master password
22:18:05 <flo> ... someday
22:18:08 <flo> (probably for 0.3)
22:19:00 <MattATobin> is there some sort of rudmentery encryption you can use just so its not in plain text
22:19:26 <MattATobin> to use in the meantime until sqllite is implimented
22:20:33 --> vicnet has joined #instantbird
22:21:31 <flo> sqlite is not the encryption
22:21:36 <Chaz6> On windows at least it's pretty easy, just navigate to the profile folder in explorer, open the properties and choose Advanced->Encrypt contents to secure data
22:22:15 <MattATobin> thats not an option
22:22:18 <MattATobin> for me
22:22:40 <MattATobin> it is encryped to the user accounts sid
22:22:54 <Chaz6> It is encrypted with an efs certificate
22:23:04 <MattATobin> are you sure
22:23:06 <Chaz6> Yes
22:23:19 <MattATobin> and if i want to access it from another version of windows?
22:23:33 <MattATobin> or i reinstall
22:23:34 <Chaz6> You will need to export the certificate and import it into your user account in the other os
22:24:16 <Chaz6> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Back-up-Encrypting-File-System-EFS-certificate
22:24:21 <Chaz6> Same applies to XP
22:24:38 <MattATobin> unacceptable
22:24:42 <MattATobin> :P
22:24:46 <Chaz6> lol
22:25:11 <flo> MattATobin: maybe you can patch Instantbird to use the password manager. That would be a nice contribution ;)
22:25:36 <MattATobin> it may take time to learn how to do that
22:25:42 <flo> sure
22:25:59 <flo> but if what you learn is useful to you later, that's fine!
22:26:22 <MattATobin> if i could do it today i would deffently
22:28:33 <flo> you have a specific need for hiding something from someone who has access to your filesystem but not your session?
22:29:27 <MattATobin> it doesnt really matter to me however if u expect the masses to use it they will demand it
22:29:37 <MattATobin> im thinking of the wellfare of the project
22:29:44 <MattATobin> ;)
22:29:49 <flo> oh, then don't worry. It's in the roadmap
22:30:03 <Chaz6> MattATobin: i dont want another separate password for each bit of software i use, it's easier to encrypt all of %AppData% in one go
22:30:14 <Chaz6> Also more secure using certificates instead of passwords
22:30:14 <flo> pidgin has never had that feature
22:30:18 <Chaz6> Exactly
22:30:43 <MattATobin> pidgin stores in plaintext?
22:30:46 <flo> though it has a feature for forgetting immediatly the password
22:31:01 <flo> MattATobin: yes, pidgin has always stored all the passwords in plaintext
22:31:07 <MattATobin> ahh
22:31:22 <MattATobin> interesting
22:31:26 <MattATobin> i wasnt aware
22:31:59 <flo> in the file accounts.xml of the profile folder I think
22:35:09 <MattATobin> your correct
22:35:24 <flo> if it wasn't correct, it was account.xml ;)
22:35:55 <MattATobin> guess ill reevaluate my optinon of pidgin too
22:36:14 <flo> ahah
22:53:19 <flo> Mic: have you tested that code to focus an existing dialog instead of opening another one?
22:53:38 <Mic> I think so
22:53:51 <Mic> I opened a conversation window and the options dialog
22:53:56 <flo> it doesn't work for me. I wonder if this is because on mac the dialogs are visually attached to their parent window
22:54:06 <Mic> Wait a minute
22:55:43 <Mic> It works as intended here
22:56:00 <Mic> Though it is only modal with respect to the window that it was opened from
22:56:16 <Mic> (ie one of the conversation windows or the options dialog)
22:56:49 <Mic> Noe that I think of it it should be possible to open several at once with the current built
22:57:04 <Mic> Just do it from separate conversation windows
23:00:26 <flo> but isn't that why the patch attempts to fix?
23:01:15 <Mic> Sure, it is fixed for me now
23:12:33 <Mic> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#4918
23:13:02 <Mic> This is apparently how clicks on links are treated
23:13:18 <Mic> Unfortunately it seems there is no such file for Instantbird
23:17:19 <flo> so that's called from contentAreaClick (line 4755)
23:17:46 <flo> which is used from: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.xul#596
23:28:50 <flo> Mic: I commited the patch for the search engine manager button. I removed the setTimeout because I don't see anything useful they could do here.
23:29:33 <Mic> Fine with me
23:29:47 <flo> :)
23:32:44 <Mic> Has the Mac problem resolved itself somehow?
23:33:35 <flo> no
23:33:52 <flo> but it will just open like if we just kept the openDialog code
23:33:57 <flo> which is not that terrible in itself
23:57:29 <Mic> Good night
23:57:39 <Morian> 'night
23:58:59 <Morian> big IRC log today, nice for my "project" XD
23:59:38 <Mic> ie
23:59:44 <Mic> that is?