#instantbird log on 11 12 2009

All times are UTC.

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10:10:20 <flo> hi :)
10:13:13 <flo> http://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:prefwindow
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12:00:18 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 267 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:00:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=267 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS improvements
12:02:51 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 268 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:02:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Leak after detaching a tab
12:07:35 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 269 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:07:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, dropped tab flickers at the end of the tabstrip before being moved to its place
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12:07:54 <Mic> hi
12:08:15 <Mic> flo: what do you mean by "Decide if we show notifications for messages arriving in background windows"?
12:08:24 <flo> hi
12:08:35 <Mic> Isn't that the whole prupose of notifications? Showing messages in windows that are not visible right now?
12:08:45 <flo> well, yes
12:08:56 <flo> the problem is that we have no way to decide if a window is visible or not
12:08:59 <Mic> So it's more an on/off switch
12:09:09 <flo> so suppose I have 2 conversation windows side by side
12:09:16 <flo> only one is focused/active at a time
12:09:49 <flo> the second window may be visible. But maybe there's another window above it. Should we popup a notification when a message arrive in that window?
12:11:14 <Mic> It's not the window that has currently the attention as it seems, so yes?
12:11:23 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 270 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:11:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=270 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Have better tab tooltips
12:11:34 <Mic> If you don't plan to use webcams and eye-tracking ;)
12:11:53 <flo> if the window is totally visible and nothing is above it... displaying a notification in this case seems bogus to me.
12:12:18 <flo> but well, not displaying a notification for a message arriving in a not-visible window looks even more bogus
12:12:34 <flo> I'd love to use webcams for eye-tracking! :-P
12:13:09 <Mic> btw I'm not sure you're using bogus correctly here ;)
12:13:18 <Mic> 'bogus'
12:14:04 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 271 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:14:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Hovering items of the all tabs menu should show a more descriptive status text
12:14:36 <flo> hmm
12:16:48 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 272 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:16:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=272 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Popup a warning when closing a conversation window with unread messages
12:16:51 <flo> ok, I've filed all the remaining issues of the tabs brainstorming page
12:21:00 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 273 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
12:21:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Detacting a tab above the Firefox content area doesn't work
12:23:35 <flo> ok, http://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:tabs-improvements is now write-protected
12:23:52 <flo> gtg
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15:11:52 * flo is updating lxr
15:12:13 <flo> the "instantbird" tree was very outdated: added 372 changesets with 1511 changes to 696 files
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15:44:19 <iLobster> greetings
15:44:22 <flo> hi :)
15:51:23 <iLobster> hmm... few days ago (or weaks) i saw new icon for instantbird after update... that was realy new icon or just my hallucinations?
15:53:41 <flo> if it looked like a with on a broom, it was the halloween icon :)
15:57:12 <iLobster> ah... cool ^^
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16:01:20 <flo> I meant "a witch" of course
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16:15:32 <Troy> Can so.
16:15:38 <flo> :)
16:18:07 <Troy> flo, I noticed that in today's nightly build appeared options window. Congratulations.  ;) 
16:18:14 <flo> thanks :)
16:18:21 <flo> do you like it? :)
16:19:18 <flo> the known issues: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:prefwindow
16:21:02 <Troy> honestly, not very  ;) You'll modify it? Please do not take offense!
16:21:44 <flo> well, read the known issues, and if what you don't like is not already listed, please explain :)
16:22:12 <Troy> Window is too similar to Firefox, I would like it to be similar to the settings window Thunderbird.
16:24:12 <flo> specific issues please!
16:24:15 <Troy> ok
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16:26:48 * flo just looked quickly at the preference window of thunderbird 3.0beta and didn't see anything interesting
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16:30:53 <Troy> http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/091112/iYwihRuwNz.jpg
16:32:19 <flo> oh, I forgot to add the "Config Editor" button in the advanced tab. Thanks for reminding it!
16:32:48 <Troy>  ;) 
16:33:03 <flo> I don't know what you mean by "Attachments" though
16:33:33 <Troy> Instantbird more like Thunderbird, Firefox than because they both are designed for communication. Windows settings, too, must byit alike.
16:34:14 <Troy> I was referring to the appearance of the panel settings.
16:34:27 <flo> don't they look the same?
16:34:56 <Troy> It looks much better than in Firefox.
16:35:15 <flo> isn't that because you have a specific theme installed?
16:36:22 <Troy> Have not you noticed that Thunderbird is much more items like Instantbird? than as in Firefox.
16:36:23 <Troy> no
16:36:41 <Troy> thi is default thunderbird 3.x theme
16:36:45 <Troy> this
16:36:59 <flo> I've never tried thunderbird 3 on Windows
16:37:51 <Troy> Pity. In Windows 7, this window looks better.
16:38:30 <Troy> I recently returned to Windows Xp with Windows 7 RC.
16:39:16 <flo> It just looks like a blue background image ;)
16:40:39 <Troy> If you want more users to Instantbird, you need to buy Windows, because it uses 92% of Internet users.
16:40:42 <Troy>  ;) 
16:41:05 <flo> I didn't say I don't have Windows.
16:41:55 <Troy> buy
16:43:51 <Troy> Did none of you use Windows?
16:44:23 <Troy> flo
16:44:39 <flo> Even and Morian do.
16:45:34 <Troy> Ha. And they both use Windows XP, right?
16:46:31 <flo> probably a mix of XP, Vista and Seven. Whatever they can stand...
16:49:11 <Troy> flo, I think that you should not try to make the settings window like a window Firefox. The window settings should be similar in structure for all "Mozilla 1.9" applications.
16:49:26 <Troy> except SeaMonkey
16:49:45 <flo> I don't understand what you mean
16:50:31 <Troy> oh
16:52:32 <Troy> I had in mind that all mozilla-programs have a similar structure of the Settings window. But they are different points, Instantbird completely different program than Firefox, and copy it completely not worth it.
16:53:04 <iLobster> you mean the names of tabs in preferences window?
16:54:20 <flo> "Themes" is not something that exists in Firefox.
16:54:45 <flo> General and Advanced are not firefox specific.
16:55:45 <flo> We need the applications tab. We have Tabs. We care a lot about how the Content is displayed (maybe we can change this word, but I've no better idea to describe what's in this tab), and we care a lot about privacy. It's even more important in an IM client than in a web browser
16:59:56 <Troy> I would like to be able to change the length of tabs in the Settings window, and not through about:config, the current length was not very happy with.
17:00:26 <flo> We should just put a better value by default
17:00:40 <flo> which values do you use?
17:02:22 <Troy> browser.tabs.tabMaxWidth - 150 instead 250
17:03:12 <flo> you changed the 2 other values too?
17:03:23 <Troy> Something like that. http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/091112/zRabplV3WS.png
17:03:49 <Troy> 2 other values?
17:04:06 <flo> that's a bit small if you want to see people's first and last name
17:04:43 <flo> browser.tabs.tabClipWidth and browser.tabs.tabMinWidth
17:05:50 <flo> tabClipWidth is the size that makes the "X" disappear for the unselected tabs.
17:06:47 <Troy> 1. To do so, give users the ability to customize. 
17:06:47 <Troy> 2. In other IM clients is not a strain. 
17:06:47 <Troy> 3. You can display information about the Reader when you hover on the tab.
17:07:13 <iLobster> well. it's not bad idea to add this to "tabs" tab, imho...
17:08:26 <Troy> These settings can be transferred to the settings window and not sweating about it. Let the users decide for themselves how they choose.
17:08:30 <Troy>  :) 
17:08:31 <flo> we are not going to put hundreds of preferences in the pref window
17:09:33 <flo> "let the users decide themselves" is almost always the wrong approach. We need to think instead of the user about what is right. Then we do just that. We need preferences only when it's not possible to "do the right thing" because the right thing depends on the context
17:09:59 <flo> I think we can set tabMaxWidth to 200 instead of 250.
17:10:30 <Troy> 170, please
17:10:36 <Troy>  ;) 
17:10:38 <flo> 230 :)
17:10:47 <Troy> 175
17:10:55 <flo> ahah!
17:11:30 <flo> by the way, how is it annoying when it's "too big"?
17:11:43 <flo> it will automatically shrink if you resize the window...
17:12:06 <Troy> 200+ to excess
17:12:10 <Troy> no
17:12:40 <Troy> The tabs do not change their size.
17:13:14 <flo> well, they shrink as soon as there's not enough space left to display all of them at their max size
17:14:14 <flo> if you would like to do heavy customization about the tabs, just create an extension (or port one that exists for Firefox). Then you can do very small tabs :). Like for example you can use the buddy icon instead of the status icon, and display only that!
17:15:58 <Troy> I, alas, not a developer extensions.
17:17:37 <Troy> The tabs in Firefox big because users are almost always with him, unfolding the whole screen.
17:18:12 <Troy> The value "150" the most optimal.
17:18:25 <flo> but why do you care about the size of tabs when there's plenty of empty space?
17:20:17 <Troy> I almost always speak with 7 + interlocutors, and other users are no exception. They are it will be inconvenient, uncomfortable as in Firefox.
17:21:05 <Troy> Huge tabs undoubtedly spoil Release 0.2.
17:21:18 <flo> ...
17:21:29 <flo> when there's no space left, the tabs SHRINK!
17:21:38 <Chaz6> It's fine for me 
17:22:07 <flo> Chaz6: :)
17:22:50 <Troy> As you wish.
17:23:20 <flo> if your problem is that they don't shrink enough, it's the tabMinWidth value that you want to change
17:25:30 <Troy> flo, I riled you, right?
17:25:51 <Troy> Excuse me.
17:25:59 <flo> that's possible ;)
17:26:50 <flo> but maybe it's also the fact that I don't seem to understand what you really want :)
17:28:38 <Troy> Okay, let's talk later, I must go. See you later.
17:28:49 <Troy>  ;) 
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17:30:01 <iLobster> btw, there is option "notify of messages received in inactive window" in "General" tab in Preferences. It act same as Message Notifier addon? So no need for that addon now?
17:30:21 <flo> that addon is obsolete, yes
17:30:54 <flo> the code was integrated and improved (for example, now it uses the buddy icon of the contact as the icon of the notification)
17:33:24 <iLobster> good =)
17:45:23 <flo> I've got to go
17:45:25 <flo> see you :)
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21:09:23 <Mic> flo: on the wiki you can use the bug template now
21:09:44 <Mic> {{bug|'insert bug number here'}} will insert a link to bugzilla from now on
21:10:03 <flo> :)
21:10:11 <Mic> If you've some spare time you can rework the tabs improvement article again :D
21:10:31 <flo> my build recompiles on the other machine
21:10:44 <flo> I'm trying to fix a bug that is present only in non-debug builds. I have these bugs.
21:12:18 <Mic> *hate ?
21:13:48 <flo> yes! :)
21:14:02 <flo> done!
21:14:55 <Mic> gtg
21:15:00 <Mic> surprise movie night again
21:15:00 <flo> good evening :)
21:15:12 <Mic> hopefully not 'trash ovie night' again
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22:47:35 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/04e3602e48e1 - Florian Qu?ze - Fix the Linux css of the preferences window.
22:47:36 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/0929e934f74d - Florian Qu?ze - Remove one line of leftover code in the advanced tab of the pref window.
22:47:37 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/73aea1aab8ef - Florian Qu?ze - Fix some compile time warnings.
22:47:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/20fb0a83aa9d - Florian Qu?ze - Give access to about:config from the Advanced tab of the prefwindow.
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23:21:08 <madgvap> hi
23:21:28 <madgvap> i'm trying to package instantbird for Debian
23:22:04 <Morian> hi madgvap 
23:22:33 <madgvap> this means compile it with debian xulrunner, debian libpurple, debian libnss and debian libnspr
23:22:45 <madgvap> do I have any chance?
23:23:31 <Morian> I guess yes, it is exactly the same as doing this for firefox
23:24:22 <madgvap> especially compiling it with debian xulrunner
23:25:01 <Morian> we are using (will use) xulrunner 1.9.2 (firefox 3.6) for Instantbird 0.2
23:25:38 <madgvap> i'm trying with 0.2a1
23:25:41 <Morian> I don't know whether you'll be able to compile with a lower version :-/
23:26:05 <Morian> and since I am not the project leader,  I am not the best to answer about this :)
23:26:21 <madgvap> isn't 0.2a1 based on libpurple 2.5.8 and xulrunner 1.9.1?
23:27:02 <madgvap> maybe 1.9.2 for the latest 0.2b1?
23:27:11 <Morian> mmmh, 0.2a1 is based on libpurple 2.5.8 yes, but surely not xulrunner 1.9.1
23:27:31 <madgvap> I read it somewhere...
23:28:00 <Morian> mmmh, I try to check
23:28:10 <madgvap> here http://www.instantbird.com/download-0.2a1.html
23:28:17 <madgvap> "Updated: Instantbird 0.2a1 is based on libpurple 2.5.8 (which fixes Yahoo! connection issues) and Mozilla 1.9.a1pre."
23:28:42 <Morian> wo, typo here I guess
23:28:48 <Morian> 1.9.2a1pre maybe
23:28:48 <Morian> :)
23:29:10 <madgvap> noooo :)
23:30:09 <Morian> As I said we were using trunk before, and when Mozilla forked to create 1.9.2 branch we switched on it
23:31:35 <madgvap> ok so with I only can compile, right?
23:31:36 <Morian> I know that I was saying that a month ago, but 0.2b1 will be out soon
23:32:19 <Morian> and I say it again, 0.2b1 will be out very soon, if you can wait
23:32:22 <Chaz6> Do you know when a new nightly will be available Morian?
23:32:40 <Morian> they already are, which OS Chaz6?
23:33:00 <Chaz6> linux
23:33:07 <Chaz6> I haven't had an update for a few days now
23:33:26 <Chaz6> the last one was 20091106
23:33:28 <Morian> madgvap: I don't know what version of IB is using 1.9.1.x :(, I am following these things since early 0.2
23:34:01 <Morian> Chaz6: There was a big problem with VM that compiles IB, and I know that windows one is now back online
23:34:29 <Chaz6> I guess i should try to set up a build on the opensuse build server
23:34:41 <Morian> Chaz6: Linux is back online too, but fails at compiling, It will be fixed shortly
23:36:22 <Morian> madgvap: I don't know exactly what you want to do, but You should avoid to use IB 0.1.x, they are very old even if marked as "stable"
23:37:22 <Chaz6> opensuse has 1.9.2b2 in mozilla:alpha and mozilla:beta repos so should be pretty easy
23:37:34 <Morian> :)
23:37:52 <Chaz6> I'll make that my project for tomorrow
23:40:01 <madgvap> on debian the latest xulrunner is, this seems the reason for which nobody package it
23:40:57 <Morian> Hopefully it will change with FF 3.6 ^^'
23:42:06 <madgvap> yes, atm FF 3.5.5 is coming out :(
23:43:52 <madgvap> do you know how can i verify what xulrunner version it get from mozilla-central?
23:44:11 <Morian> I dont know whether it is easily solvable :-/, maybe you should write to flo (florian@instantbird.com).
23:44:57 <madgvap> this is the hg command done when I checkout "hg update -v -r a568cdcd510d -R ./mozilla"
23:51:49 <madgvap> here https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/254413
23:52:07 <madgvap> it's been compiled a 0.2a1 with xulrunner 1.9.1
23:53:16 <madgvap> i'll write to flo. thanks cy
23:53:24 <Morian> cya :)
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