#instantbird log on 10 01 2009

All times are UTC.

00:02:54 --> Morian has joined #instantbird
00:02:55 <instantbot> Hi master, it's nice to see you there again!
00:04:29 <-- Morian_ has quit (Ping timeout)
00:24:21 <-- sonny has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
00:51:02 --> Morian_ has joined #instantbird
00:52:28 <-- Morian has quit (Ping timeout)
01:01:31 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Ping timeout)
05:27:37 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
05:50:44 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
05:57:49 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
07:25:46 --> flo has joined #instantbird
07:25:47 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
08:50:51 --> tt has joined #instantbird
08:51:02 <-- tt has left #instantbird ()
08:51:18 <-- SM0TVI has quit (Quit: Hi. I'm a quit message virus. Add me to your configuration file, and help me take over the world of IRC.)
09:01:51 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:44:26 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/prefs-content.png (work in progress)
09:49:51 <Mic> hi, btw
09:50:54 <Mic> hmm, hmm, this directory used to be listable, wasn't it? ;)
10:20:05 <flo> I think so, yes
10:20:17 <flo> but the current "index" is much nicer :-]
10:39:34 <Mic> The other had the advantage of easily looking up old screenshots without having to find the exact file name in the logs
10:41:12 <Mic> by the way I think I could use some help creating and replacing conversations .. maybe let me know when you've got some time
10:41:56 <flo> I thought a bit about it. I don't really see a good way to create a new conversation without having automatically a new tab
10:42:45 <flo> what would you think of making the account attribute of all conversations read/write instead of readonly?
10:42:48 <flo> this attribute: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleIConversation.idl#54
10:43:34 <Mic> So we just replace the account we talk from and not the conversation itself ..
10:44:09 <flo> "The other had the advantage of easily looking up old screenshots" and all private and completely unrelated to instantbird files that were in that folder for a temporary reason ;). I should really put the screenshots somewhere else :)
10:44:24 <flo> Mic: yes. It's the same conversation, isn't it?
10:44:56 <Mic> How will it affect log files for example?
10:45:04 <flo> I'm not sure how hard that would be to code
10:45:55 <flo> for the logs it will be like if we closed the conversation and opened another one (actually, this is actually was we would do at the libpurple level :-P)
10:46:14 <Mic> ok
10:46:33 <Mic> So it doesn't break anything (internally)
10:46:45 <flo> I hope so :)
10:46:58 <Mic> hmm, sounds even better than replacing the conversation as whole to me ..
10:47:23 <flo> I don't know yet how well it will work in all situations. For example, if you change the account used for an IRC channel, will it automatically leave the channel, and join it with the other IRC account?
10:50:12 <Mic> So far I've avoided IRC (can't try on XMPP) because it breaks everything (I didn't track down the problem, just left the method prematurely iff on IRC)
10:51:05 <flo> I guess for the first attempts we can just throw NS_ERROR_NOT_IMPLEMENTED if someone tries to set the account of a MUC :)
10:56:13 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
11:03:31 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
11:06:17 --> SM0TVI has joined #instantbird
11:08:22 <Mic> re
11:09:14 --> tt has joined #instantbird
11:09:27 <tt> Hi
11:09:30 <flo> I'll have to go in less than 10 minutes ;)
11:10:47 <Mic> I'd like to include offline accounts in the list and plan to connect if necessary
11:11:39 <tt> flo	Sorry, what are you talking about?
11:11:51 <flo> the idea seems good, but there may be some tricky cases: what happens if the account fails to connect? And what happens if it connects (so you switch the conversation other to it) and then disconnects one second after that (like the facebook chat plugin often does)
11:12:01 <Mic> Do you see any difficulties with this (beside "can't connect", or the time necessary before being able to use it ..)
11:13:29 <Mic> I think fails to connect is easier to catch than the other case
11:13:40 <flo> can you select another account (account2) during the time the first account (account1) you selected it connecting? If so, what happens? Is the conversation switched to account2 and back to account1 when account1 is connected? Or does it stays on account2, in this case, why is account1 still connected?
11:14:30 <Mic> I though of disabling the drop down box during connecting
11:14:32 <flo> how do you handle the case where one contact is visible as available from one account, and is offline when viewed from the other (typically because of a server/connection issue or because the contact has blocked you)
11:14:41 <Mic> so it either fails or connects
11:15:05 <flo> ah, in this case, what happens if the account is connecting for ever? (often happens with XMPP accounts which you try to connect when you are offline)
11:15:34 <Mic> ok, I haven't experienced that yet
11:15:41 <Mic> Thanks for pointing it out
11:17:05 --> Morian has joined #instantbird
11:17:06 <instantbot> Hi master, it's nice to see you there again!
11:18:30 <-- Morian_ has quit (Ping timeout)
11:19:24 <flo> see you later :)
11:19:28 <Mic> bye
11:19:39 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
11:19:42 <-- sonny has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
11:30:41 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 247 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
11:30:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=247 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Facebook plugin, continuing connection attempts lead to block from Facebook
11:31:50 <Mic> Instantbot: you're fast, now go and get a cookie :P
11:31:52 <instantbot> Mic: Sorry, I've no idea what 'you're fast, now go and get a cookie :P' might be.
11:39:53 <Morian> :-)
11:40:50 <Morian> Now the bot displays new bugs and changes within 10 seconds after submitting it ;)
11:45:35 <Mic> haha, am I a suffenciently reliable source so that my bugs are automatically set to NEW and not to UNCONFIRMED? :D
11:45:58 <Mic> ok, maybe I'm just over-interpreting here 
11:45:58 <Morian> if you have "editbug" right yes
11:46:07 <Mic> I have
11:46:34 <Morian> I guess even canconfirm is sufficient here.
11:46:44 <Mic> ok, if you can edit bugs, you can mess up things anyways if you want to ..
11:47:27 <Morian> yes :)
11:47:56 <Morian> but you won't do this for a long time ;)
11:47:59 <Morian> trust me :p
11:49:01 <Morian> but that's why "editbug" is granted on reliable people ^^'
11:49:34 <Mic> bang! .. 200 hundred changes within 10 seconds before Instantbot even sends out the first notification? 
11:49:45 <Mic> I guess bugzilla would prevent such a mass change anyways ..
11:50:40 <Morian> yes, and I guess if something is wrong we can revert the database to the state it was on XXX at XX:XX
11:51:00 <Mic> hopefully
11:51:24 <Mic> Lunchtime! See you later ..
11:51:32 <Morian> good lunch :;)
11:52:29 <Morian> going to school ... :(
11:52:56 <Morian> see you tonight!
11:55:50 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird
11:56:05 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
11:59:40 <tt> Morian
12:00:15 <-- tt has left #instantbird ()
12:44:32 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird
13:02:18 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird
13:23:33 --> tt has joined #instantbird
13:23:56 <-- tt has left #instantbird ()
13:28:07 <DGMurdockIII> flo: is there n api documentation for instantbird
13:29:31 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Mic2): is there n api documentation for instantbird
13:30:27 <Mic> hi
13:30:47 <Mic> I'd guess no
13:31:24 <DGMurdockIII> ok becouse aguy from the gfire project asked me
13:31:25 <Mic> You can have a look at the source files and check out what methods and fields object offer
13:32:02 <DGMurdockIII> one of the devs said he might talk to u
13:33:35 <Mic> They're creating a protocol plugin for Pidgin, aren't they?
13:34:57 <DGMurdockIII> yeah but he thinks it be a god idea to get it intagreated in to at least on multi im app
13:35:01 <DGMurdockIII> and yeah
13:37:12 <Mic> "15:32:02 - DGMurdockIII: one of the devs said he might talk to u", make sure to let flo know
13:37:22 <Mic> He's the one in charge ..
13:37:31 <DGMurdockIII> he dose want to talk to you
13:37:41 <DGMurdockIII> but and yes
13:38:08 <Mic> I'm definitely not qualified enough to discuss such a thing
13:38:20 <Mic> I haven't even compiled Instantbird a single time myself
13:38:31 <DGMurdockIII> but i not sure if he ment right away now becse he said be right back
13:42:52 --> tt has joined #instantbird
13:44:31 <DGMurdockIII> hi
13:44:51 <tt> hi
13:44:58 <DGMurdockIII> whats up
13:46:10 <tt> i don't understand
13:47:35 <-- tt has left #instantbird ()
14:05:50 --> Morian_ has joined #instantbird
14:07:01 <-- Morian has quit (Ping timeout)
14:20:02 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird ()
14:35:52 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
14:52:22 --> flo has joined #instantbird
14:52:22 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
14:52:23 <instantbot> Floooooo! It's so good to see you...
14:54:46 <flo> Mic: hmm, so you got blocked from facebook?
14:54:53 <Mic> yes
14:55:39 <Mic> I'm not after how many attempts, but I don't think it didn't try longer than 5 minutes maybe
14:55:45 <flo> you may be interested by this hidden pref: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/33
14:55:46 <Mic> *not sure
14:58:46 <Mic> by the way: does the facebook plugin work for anyone at all right now?
14:59:26 <DGMurdockIII> not installed for me now
14:59:37 <DGMurdockIII> it did when i had it installed
14:59:48 <DGMurdockIII> so i dont now if works
14:59:51 <DGMurdockIII> now
15:00:46 <flo> Mic: works for me. Frequently disconnected though.
15:01:27 <Mic> Same for me ... with frequently = disconnects after a second or two ;)
15:01:33 --> gfire_julian has joined #instantbird
15:01:44 <DGMurdockIII> that the problem i had that why i unstalled it
15:02:59 <flo> a fix for the mozilla bug causing bug 211 has been pushed today. Hopefully variants will work in the next nightly :)
15:03:04 <instantbot> flo: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211 maj, --, 0.2, nobody, NEW, Message Themes Variants are not recognized
15:08:15 <DGMurdockIII> hey gfire_julian how are you
15:18:32 <-- gfire_julian has left #instantbird ()
15:34:36 <deOmega> flo:gm, you know what would be nice?  if  when we get the pop-up notification on a message... if one  clickc on that notification, that conversation is then brought to teh forefront.. lie in  a case where you are having a multi-tab conversaion
15:34:58 <deOmega> I do not think any other messenger does it
15:35:24 <flo> isn't that we it already does?
15:35:32 <flo> It's supposed to do so at least...
15:35:38 <deOmega> no
15:35:46 <deOmega> when i click on it,   nothing happens
15:36:02 <flo> I'm almost sure it switches to the right tab
15:36:13 <deOmega> i just tried it again .  hmm
15:36:19 <flo> but maybe the window is only put above the other instantbird windows and not above all windows of all applications
15:37:04 <flo> see you all :)
15:37:09 <Mic> Having the right name/alias on the window title when the window task button flashes would be useful as well
15:37:27 <deOmega> it does not even bring  the window forward
15:37:37 <flo> I need to try it on windows then
15:37:43 <deOmega> ok, thank you
15:38:01 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
15:53:09 <-- sonny has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
15:57:48 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
16:03:59 --> Morian has joined #instantbird
16:04:00 <instantbot> Hi master, it's nice to see you there again!
16:05:31 <-- Morian_ has quit (Ping timeout)
16:19:02 --> instantbot has joined #instantbird
16:19:02 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2a1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightly builds are at http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (for testing purpose only)."
16:19:02 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
16:35:38 --> idechix has joined #instantbird
16:49:09 --> tt has joined #instantbird
16:49:29 <tt> Hi
16:49:37 <Mic> hello
16:49:54 <tt> instantbot: seen flo
16:49:55 <instantbot> flo was last seen 72 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying 'I need to try it on windows then' in #instantbird.
16:50:09 <tt> Hello Mic
16:50:26 <Morian> haha, and he tried it on windows and felt in a deep depression XD
16:51:03 <Morian> fell *
16:52:41 <tt> Morian, you manage to Gecko 1.9.2b1?
16:53:48 <tt> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/DeliveryMeetings/2009-09-30#Upcoming_Firefox_Releases
16:54:22 <tt> Firefox 3.6b1 and Gecko 1.9.2b1 and... Instantbird 0.2b1?
16:55:01 <Morian> we don't follow gecko releases for our version numbers
16:56:09 <tt> 	Why? You just meet a September 15!
16:56:48 <tt> 	Or a little later.
16:56:52 <tt>  ;) 
16:57:42 <Morian> because instantbird only relies on gecko, our schedule is not based on gecko releases (or few). We'll have gecko 1.9.2 final (I guess) for 0.2
16:59:33 <tt> But you yourself said that the beta will be ready in a week.
16:59:37 <tt>  :o 
17:00:05 <Morian> in the best case yes
17:00:29 <Morian> even if one week ... i would say 2 ^^'
17:02:25 <tt> 	You see! This suit you perfectly! Today, 1 october, October 15, just 2 weeks! Please!
17:02:50 <-- tt has left #instantbird ()
17:07:56 <Morian> we ... just don't care :-s
17:48:32 --> flo has joined #instantbird
17:48:32 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
17:48:33 <instantbot> Floooooo! It's so good to see you...
18:43:57 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
19:00:46 <Mic> Flo: you pointed out the preference to set different delay between connection attempts
19:01:50 <Morian> in my mind it should be something "advanced"
19:02:19 <Mic> Setting facebook compatible values will most likely no be not so useful for other protocols
19:03:08 <Mic> Maybe protocols could bring no (use default) or their own set of connection delays
19:04:12 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Morian2): you a mozilla dev
19:04:26 <Morian> it is a possible solution yes. Even if if it makes things harder
19:04:30 <Morian> DGMurdockIII: no
19:05:56 <Mic> What sort of advanced thing was it you had in mind?
19:06:44 <Morian> I mean that this kind of preference is far from being "low/novice" user friendly
19:07:04 <Morian> and is not that much interesting either
19:08:02 <flo> Morian: that's in about:config
19:08:04 <Mic> From my point of view it's meant to be tweakable so you can adjust the delay for different protocols
19:08:11 <Morian> flo: I know that
19:08:29 <Mic> but it's nothing that users would have to care about, once the developer has figured out usuable values
19:08:56 <Morian> ah, I thought you wanted to add this in the preference window Mic ^^'
19:08:56 <flo> the usable value should be the same for all protocols
19:09:23 <flo> It would be interesting to know that the problem exactly is with facebook
19:10:11 <flo> it currently makes at most 6 connection attemps in the first 5 minutes
19:10:15 <flo> that's not huge
19:10:57 <flo> but... I guess the real solution is to get a working implementation of a facebook chat plugin
19:11:31 <flo> that increasing delay between reconnection attempts is meant to avoid DDoS the servers if they are having trouble, not to work around the local plugin brokenness
19:12:13 <Mic> ok, I tried to log into the facebook website with a wrong password and it blocked me after 6 or 7 attempts
19:12:59 <Mic> It gives the same error message 
19:13:08 <flo> if the error message is "wrong password", it doesn't attempt automatic reconnection
19:13:25 <Mic> on the website
19:13:41 <flo> ok
19:14:06 <Mic> It logs into facebook chat (the online contacts are appearing in the list!)
19:14:37 <Mic> disconnects and a few attempts later it shows the error message when going to the login screen
19:28:29 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
19:31:31 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): there is a person that want to try and add a protocol to instantbird
19:32:10 <DGMurdockIII> they where in here early as gfire_julian
19:32:48 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): they wanted some api doc if there is any
19:34:02 <flo> if they have a plugin for libpurple, they can just compile it for Instantbird
19:34:26 <flo> if they want to write a protocol plugin in JS, they will need to wait until we start working on that feature for 0.3
19:35:15 <DGMurdockIII> no they wanted to add a new protocol to instantbird no a plugin
19:35:49 <DGMurdockIII> not a plugin
19:38:26 <flo> in the future, we will probably remove more protocols than we will add (the removed protocols will become extensions)
19:38:42 <DGMurdockIII> why?
19:38:50 <Morian> because we don't need them
19:38:59 <Morian> a lot of them are completely useless
19:39:21 <flo> + users don't like being faced with a huge list of protocols they have never heard about
19:39:22 <Morian> We want the most common protocols by default
19:39:32 <flo> + in some country people care about the size of the download
19:39:50 <flo> + protocol released as extensions can be upgraded easily and more often than the application itself
19:40:08 <DGMurdockIII> with more features
19:40:20 <Morian> yes but would we set MSN as extension (?)
19:40:46 <Morian> surely we don't want it ... but we would like to benefit from a "MSN extension"
19:40:55 <DGMurdockIII> but you might not be using some of them but some people are
19:40:56 <flo> Morian: ?
19:41:12 <Morian> Do we want to have MSN a extension ?
19:41:20 <DGMurdockIII> msn-pecan
19:41:43 <flo> DGMurdockIII: do you see any use for having the netsoul protocol plugin in your instantbird? How often do you use QQ? Gadu-Gadu?
19:41:52 <DGMurdockIII> i still think having protocols intagrated is better than a addon
19:42:11 <DGMurdockIII> qq is really big in china and japan
19:42:22 <DGMurdockIII> i have used QQ before
19:42:24 <flo> so not in your locale
19:42:49 <DGMurdockIII> and yes on instantbird
19:43:49 <DGMurdockIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent_QQ
19:46:24 <Mic> Would it be a problem to make every protocol an extension and ship IB with 'preinstalled extensions'?
19:49:18 <flo> Mic: that's the plan! ;)
19:49:36 <DGMurdockIII> you guys have to watch the official video from digsby that show it off some of the stuff look very cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16grAzndW9w maby instbird coulddo something like this
20:11:38 <DGMurdockIII> if you do that then aim , yahoo, msn messenger , ICQ , and google talk , irc shold be the once pre installed but but before you do that
20:11:57 <DGMurdockIII> you need to improved the addon site alot its very very slow
20:12:13 <DGMurdockIII> and could use a loyout update
20:13:14 <Mic> gtg
20:13:14 <flo> and we need to make addons installable without restarting!
20:13:19 <flo> Mic: good night
20:13:27 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
20:13:28 <Mic> not exactly, going to cinema instead
20:13:31 <Mic> have fun
20:13:36 <DGMurdockIII> if you could do that
20:13:36 <flo> enjoy then :)
20:13:41 <Morian> goo film :)
20:13:43 <Morian> +d
20:13:57 <DGMurdockIII> then show the firefox dev how to do it
20:14:04 <Mic> It's a sneak preview/surprise film, so I really hope it's not some horror-crap
20:14:09 <Mic> :D
20:14:14 <DGMurdockIII> what movie is it
20:14:16 <flo> :)
20:14:28 <Mic> DGM: you don't know before - that's the point of it
20:14:36 <Morian> ^^
20:14:39 <Mic> really gtg
20:14:42 <-- Mic has left #instantbird ()
20:59:56 --> Morian_ has joined #instantbird
21:01:48 <-- Morian has quit (Ping timeout)
21:02:37 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:05:09 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
21:07:35 <-- deOmega has quit (Quit: )
21:11:39 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:12:15 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
21:13:14 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
21:36:46 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:57:55 <-- sonny has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
21:59:45 <flo> good night
22:03:46 <-- idechix has left #instantbird ()
22:18:36 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
23:17:31 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)