#instantbird log on 09 25 2009

All times are UTC.

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11:37:31 <instantbot> Floooooo! It's so good to see you...
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12:02:04 <Snef> Hi, Flo.  :) 
12:02:08 <flo> hi
12:02:47 <Snef> How is the development of Ib 0.2b1?
12:03:54 <flo> "interesting", "slow", "exciting", (and a lot more...). Pick a few :)
12:04:10 <flo> seriously, could you be more specific in your question?
12:05:03 <Snef> And why from the beginning of the week no updates for Ib 0.2b1pre for Windows? Having problems?
12:05:33 <flo> I think that build machine is offline. And unfortunately, the owner of that machine is offline too...
12:06:19 <Snef> Why then is the update for MacOSX?
12:06:29 <flo> because it's a different machine
12:06:40 <flo> actually, the Mac OS X build machine is right under my desk ;)
12:09:08 <flo> Snef: is there any new feature that you expect for the beta and look forward to that hasn't landed yet in the nightlies?
12:09:45 <Snef> Can I give you my proposal for Instantbird?
12:09:55 <flo> of course
12:11:03 <Snef> You have seen Thunderbird 3.0b4?
12:11:50 <flo> yes
12:12:04 <Snef> I liked the new account manager. You can do the same for Instantbird?
12:12:55 <Snef> Flo?
12:13:38 <flo> I don't see anything changed in the account manager
12:14:43 <Snef> wait, I'll lay out a link to a screenshot
12:17:33 * flo goes away for a few minutes
12:20:17 <Snef> http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090925/3pyfaO43VW.jpg
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12:27:45 <Morian> Snef: You mean the account wizard no? Do you talk about the account-list window or the way of creating a new account?
12:32:27 <Snef> Creating a new account
12:32:52 <flo> Snef: that window looks awful. But we are definitely planning to add some support for checking that the account can connect with the user-provided password and settings before the account is saved
12:39:19 * deOmega says good morning and that he is just waiting for ANY visible enhancement, so he could feel like he has a new toy
12:39:38 <flo> deOmega: http://queze.net/goinfre/prefs-tabs.png
12:39:51 <flo> (that's what I'm working on today ;))
12:40:04 <flo> (by the way: good morning too! :))
12:40:44 <deOmega> Ohhh, yes!  YES    Looking forward to that
12:41:38 <deOmega> SOunds like scene from teh movie,  'When Harry  met Sally'  :)
12:41:39 <flo> the feature of message notifier landed yesterday for today's nightly (mac only unfortunately :()
12:41:59 <deOmega> what feature of message notifier?
12:43:21 <flo> popup notifications of new messages when an other application is focused
12:44:30 <deOmega> OHH, so that the new window does not pop up in  your face?
12:44:49 <flo> no
12:45:14 <flo> well, maybe the screenshot there makes it easy to understand: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/208
12:45:41 <deOmega> hmm, I am already using that
12:45:49 <flo> as an extension
12:45:58 <deOmega> OK< now i understand
12:45:59 <deOmega> yes
12:46:16 <flo> it's now part of the default application. You just need to change the value of a pref in about:config to enable it
12:47:06 <deOmega> sorry if i am taking you in circles.... teh default application in  macs only, or all?
12:47:18 <flo> arg
12:47:31 <flo> all. But only the mac nightly is available today!
12:47:34 <flo> :)
12:47:47 <deOmega> OK,  I understand
12:59:00 <deOmega> Godo improvemsnts
12:59:45 <deOmega> May i also add,  just an opinion as well, that i do not fancy that  thunderbird account manager appearance
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15:31:08 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a3f9eab5bbc4 - Florian Qu?ze - Add a preference to control whether new conversations are opened in windows or tabs.
15:31:09 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/c60d07138023 - Florian Qu?ze - Add a preference to separate IM and chat conversations in different windows.
15:31:10 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/1a2b4bf9bc69 - Florian Qu?ze - Allow conversation windows to refuse the addition of a conversation. If all existing windows refuse a new conversation, a new window will be created for it.
15:31:24 <flo> :)
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16:02:47 <instantbot> Hi master, it's nice to see you there again!
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16:17:35 <Mic> hi
16:28:08 <Morian> hi Mic
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17:17:17 <Mic> I wonder why we need to have the same UI for everything
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17:17:35 <instantbot> Floooooo! It's so good to see you...
17:18:40 <Mic> On a Win CE netbook with a 10" screen space efficiency definitely has other priority than on a 22" widescreen
17:20:34 <Mic> for flo, I'll repeat the question I asked into the silent and inactive channel just seconds ago ;)
17:20:37 <Mic> "19:17:20 - Mic: I wonder why we need to have the same UI for everything"
17:20:45 <flo> :)
17:21:18 <flo> the reason is pretty simple: the more different UIs we have, the more work it requires!
17:23:16 <flo> I think it would be interesting/fun to design a different UI for a phone with touchscreen (like iPhones) :)
17:29:14 <Mic> bbl (dinner)
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18:27:31 <Mic> re
18:36:40 <flo> 6 changesets pushed today, that's not so bad :)
18:39:47 <Mic> Instantbot hasn't announced it yet ..
18:39:51 <instantbot> Mic: Sorry, I've no idea what 'hasn't announced it yet' might be.
18:41:18 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/1aaaf668e1f6 - Florian Qu?ze - Popup a warning when closing several conversation tabs at once and some of them have unread messages.
18:41:19 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/deee28f27f79 - Florian Qu?ze - Focus the new conversation when starting a private conversation with a participant of a chat.
18:41:20 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/71031345c68b - Florian Qu?ze - Clear the status bar when the alltabs menu is closed.
18:42:16 <Mic> btw nice patches
18:42:30 <flo> thanks
18:46:39 <Mic> Windows refusing new tabs, how do you plan to make use of that?
18:46:57 <flo> the next 2 patches use that
18:47:15 <flo> and I'd like to create an extension that would "lock" a window so that it doesn't accept any new tab
18:47:49 <flo> when you have a big conversation window with all the tabs and you detact one conversation to have it on one side of the big window, it's terribly annoying when new conversations arrive in that tiny window
18:48:05 <Mic> It could be suspected that someone has this intention when dragging a chat away to create a new window
18:48:18 <flo> I've no idea of a decent UI for that "lock window" feature, so I guess it would just be an extension adding something into the contextmenu
18:48:46 <Mic> Some sort of "Stopper" on the tab bar, like on a bookshelf maybe? 
18:48:55 <Mic> ok, might look silly
18:48:58 <flo> Mic: so you think we should avoid adding new tabs to a window with only one tab if another window already has more tabs?
18:49:42 <flo> that would make sense for my personal usecase. But I suspect some people like to have several windows with a few tabs in each of them
18:50:26 <Mic> Tabs are added to the msot recently opened window?
18:50:36 <Mic> I don't recall ..
18:50:37 <flo> no, most recently activated window
18:50:43 <Mic> ok
18:50:50 <flo> activated = got focus
18:51:29 <Mic> hmm, what about opening them in a 'default window'
18:52:06 <flo> how do we know which window is the default one?
18:52:07 <Mic> dragging/dropping a buddy to another window could open it there instead of the default window (which would be used for double click/enter events on the buddy list) 
18:53:22 <flo> I guess we can say that the window that was opened first (that is, without detaching a tab to create it) is the default window. But what happens once that window is closed?
18:53:29 <flo> bbl (dinner too!)
18:53:36 <Mic> it would open it anew
18:54:10 <Mic> brb
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19:47:36 <Mic> flo: can an extension change the way windows and tabs are opened (more or less easily)?
19:48:52 <Mic> I think of an extension that allows to group tabs into different windows on rules like
19:50:16 <Mic> 'same protocol', 'same contact' (one day), 'same user (tabs for different resources on xmpp?)', 'MUC/ user to user chat', 'same server (e.g. IRC)', ..
19:50:50 <flo> same group/tag is interesting too
19:51:05 <flo> I think an extension can do that, yes
20:09:54 <Mic> I wonder how much use a wiki article with an extension wishlist would be ..
20:10:04 <Mic> I'm afraid it would be no good
20:10:17 <flo> that's a start
20:10:29 <flo> we really want an ideatorrent installation for that
20:10:35 <Mic> well, I guess it wouldn't hurt either
20:10:49 <flo> but putting thoughts on the wiki to ensure we won't forget them is a good start
20:11:09 <flo> I have an extension idea list in my todo list
20:11:39 <flo> I guess I could put these ideas on the wiki on your page if you create it
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20:15:50 <deOmega> sonny:HOW is your addon coming?  :)
20:16:04 * deOmega hopes he remembers right :)
20:16:10 <sonny> deOmega: sorry?
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20:16:50 <deOmega> deOmega: That was a poor attempt at showing off my memory.
20:17:14 <deOmega> whooops, that was meant for sonny
20:17:24 <flo> deOmega: or maybe you can refresh sonny's memory ;)
20:17:42 <sonny> yes you should
20:17:59 <deOmega> True...     weren't you working on an addon for instantbird?
20:18:36 <sonny> I don't think so
20:18:55 <deOmega> Think hard, you just forgot
20:19:00 <flo> :)
20:19:25 <deOmega> Ohhhh, the power of suggestion :)
20:19:37 <sonny> deOmega: probably, I can't remember
20:19:52 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:extension_wish_list
20:20:00 <flo> deOmega: I think he doesn't know of which extension you are talking about. Sooooo many extensions he said he would do ;)
20:20:20 <deOmega> well, that is avery godo start.  You want me to tell you what you which one you said?
20:20:26 <deOmega> flo:LOL
20:20:37 <sonny> sorry not the day for talking about this, bye
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20:21:06 <deOmega> hmm, that was interesting
20:21:18 <flo> heh, he left on google talk too!
20:21:30 <Mic> Maybe someone is having a bad day ..
20:22:03 <deOmega> yeah,   I  have had those .. head scratchers
20:23:06 <deOmega> I will apologize to him when i see him again.  poor guy.
20:23:56 <flo> don't worry too much ;)
20:24:23 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): look at this there is a big big big error in the wikiapedia artical about instantbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instantbird
20:24:43 <DGMurdockIII> it says Instantbird is an instant messenger based on Mozilla's XULRunner and the open source library libpurple created by the software developers of Pidgin.
20:25:05 <DGMurdockIII> created by the software developers of Pidgin is not true right
20:25:09 <Mic> I guess it's just ambiguous
20:25:20 <Mic> It's maybe referring to libpurple only
20:25:51 <flo> well, IMHO, the error is on that part of the sentence: "aims to match Pidgin's feature set"
20:28:27 <DGMurdockIII> so created by the software developers of Pidgin
20:28:31 <DGMurdockIII> is true
20:29:13 <flo> for libpurple, yes
20:29:22 <DGMurdockIII> oh ok
20:29:34 <flo> but the wording of the whole sentence is ambiguous
20:31:28 <Mic> Anything someone wants to see on the wish list?
20:31:54 <DGMurdockIII> can i see the wish list first
20:31:55 <Mic> A single request looks a little forlorn
20:32:11 <Mic> It's the link I posted above
20:32:44 <flo> I'm sure we have lots of ideas
20:33:16 <flo> let me give some of the ones I noted in my todo list:
20:33:20 <Mic> Shall I add "Facebook chat" ? ;)
20:33:52 <flo> 1. A message style where the vertical space between messages depends on how much time elapsed between the messages.
20:34:49 <Mic> I'll just c/p it to the wiki if you like
20:35:00 <flo> 2. lmgtfy integration. (useless but fun to have. You select something in the conversation, right click, on the context menu you see an item 'Let me Google <selected text> for you' and when you click it, it sends a tiny url of it in the conversation)
20:35:34 <Mic> Is the first word a terrible typo or is it the actual name?
20:35:55 <Mic> ah, let me google it for you ..
20:35:57 <flo> 3. A 'virtual' MUC that would regroup all the incoming IMs, so that you can monitor all your conversations at once. Clicking or double clicking on a message would switch the focus to the actual conversation
20:35:58 <Mic> nevermind ..
20:36:44 <flo> 4. A message style editor. Something so that you can edit a message style theme and have a live preview of a conversation displayed using it. When you are done, package it automatically as a nice .xpi file
20:37:06 <Mic> On 3: I thought of something like a timeline-chat window, in which chats would appear next to each other, with as much space between the messages to keep the time order
20:38:16 <flo> 5. Switch dictionary automatically based on the detection of the language that is used for the current message. This firefox extension can be used as a base: https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/3414 Ultimately this will be a feature of the default application, but I think it'd be nice to experimente first as an extension
20:41:19 <flo> 6. Boss protection! A magic keyboard shortcut that would make the application completely invisible.
20:42:02 <flo> 7. A way to hide completely some buddies you are not interested in, without blocking them and without removing them from your server side buddy list
20:43:12 <flo> 8. A nice tooltip when hovering youtube/dailymotion (and other famous video sharing plateforms) links. The tooltip would have a couple of preview images of the video, so that you can know what the video is about without having to load it
20:43:51 <flo> 9. Same idea, but for tinyurls. We probably want to have a way to know the 'real' URL before clicking the link. Or maybe even expand the URL before displaying it in the conversation with a text modifier
20:45:02 <flo> 10. An addon to customize emoticon themes. (decide that there's an icon that is silly and that you don't want to see anymore. <3 for example is annoying for anybody trying to do mathematics :), add emoticons that you like and select from your local disk.)
20:45:38 <flo> 11. Emoticon theme editor/importer/creator. Create your emoticon themes directly from Instantbird
20:47:09 <flo> 12. Detect the location based on which wifi are nearby, and use that information to change automatically some account parameters (proxy for example) and your status. Mozilla has a nice API accessible from JS to get information about wifi access points detected by the OS. I think that feature would be very useful for laptop users!
20:47:40 <flo> 13. Show offline buddies in the list. (we will do that correctly someday, but I think an extension can hack it quickly to just 'make it work now')
20:49:54 <flo> 14. "Repeat this to <someone>". This would be useful to pretend you are explaining something to someone, when actually you already explained it to someone else before. You would select a part of a conversation, it would extract from that selection what YOU said, it would send that to the other person in the same order, taking the same time for each line, sending correct typing notification signals, ... This would also be useful for testing pu
20:50:41 <flo> that's it, I'm out of ideas :)
20:50:43 <Mic> your message was cut
20:50:53 <Mic> It's been too long
20:50:59 <flo> I hate libpurple for that ;)
20:51:42 <flo> the part that was cut wasn't really interesting: "This would also be useful for testing purposes of course :)"
20:54:38 <Mic> ok ..
20:54:42 <Mic> It's in there
20:55:05 <flo> some more (that weren't in my todo list but are obvious):
20:55:05 <flo>  - merge the buddy list and the conversation windows, so that we can have a 'single window' mode.
20:55:06 <flo>  - have a way to split (vertically or horizontally or both) a conversation window so that you can see several conversations at once in a single window
20:55:06 <flo>  - display buddies for who a conversation is opened at the top of the buddy list. This would be a way to merge the tablist and buddy list.
20:56:54 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 233 to FIXED.
20:56:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233 nor, --, 0.2b1, florian, RESO FIXED, Typing looks too much like loading
20:58:29 <DGMurdockIII> i would like to see a extion that would allow you to be able to be able to play the games with you buddies on msn
20:59:06 <flo> hmm
20:59:29 <DGMurdockIII> i would also love to see a test pilot like extion
20:59:45 <flo> Mic: does your page intend to list only things that are currently possible to implement as extension, or things that ultimately we would like to see as extensions?
20:59:59 <Mic> that we would like to see
21:00:08 <Mic> It looks much like a brainstorming page right now ;)
21:00:24 <Mic> (I just saved it to make sure it's not lost if something happens)
21:00:27 <flo> the suggestion about msn games is not possible to implement right now, but it doesn't mean we don't want it
21:01:31 <flo> Mic: it depends if that's brainstorming intended to provide ideas for extension developers or if we try to list what we think instantbird should allow addon developers to do 'easily'
21:02:12 <flo> there's currently no low level access to any of the protocols so it's not possible to change anything in them as an extension
21:02:47 <Mic> I intended it as a source of ideas
21:02:48 <DGMurdockIII> file transfer
21:03:08 <DGMurdockIII> would be a good one till proper supper supper is added to instantbird
21:03:15 <DGMurdockIII> support*
21:04:34 <DGMurdockIII> what the mozilla pstbin site
21:04:48 <DGMurdockIII> link
21:06:38 <DGMurdockIII> what is the link to the mozilla pastbin site?
21:07:13 <flo> hmm, implementing file transfer as 'uploading automatically to a file sharing website, getting the link and sending it in the conversation'  would be interesting
21:07:49 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
21:07:52 <flo> it would bypass 'magically' most proxy/routers/firewall issues that we nearly always have these days when transfering files over IM networks
21:08:26 <DGMurdockIII> that would so be so if the the msn filetransfer is dose not work you allways have a easy backup
21:08:39 <DGMurdockIII> or yahoo filetransfer ect
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21:13:16 <DGMurdockIII> that what i was thinking
21:13:18 <DGMurdockIII> flo
21:13:56 <Mic> Single window mode:
21:13:59 <Mic> http://www.dabbledoo.com/ee/images/uploads/gadgetell/skype4.jpg
21:14:12 <Mic> (FAIL)
21:14:26 <flo> are there more 'international' websites like this one: http://dl.free.fr/
21:14:47 <flo> file upload, with a minimal amount of ads and a decent quality of service
21:15:05 <DGMurdockIII> is that a file upload site
21:15:13 <DGMurdockIII> becse i now a bunch of them
21:15:48 <flo> a file upload site that doesn't suck
21:16:14 <flo> doesn't open a popup at each click, doesn't require you to type a captcha, doesn't make you wait 60s while you look at their ads
21:16:18 <Mic> (ie your own FTP)
21:18:11 <Mic> http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:extension_wish_list
21:18:52 <Mic> I wasn't fast enough to convert everything from chat language .. but for the time being it should be ok
21:19:14 <DGMurdockIII> http://drop.io/
21:19:25 <DGMurdockIII> is great
21:20:08 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.filedropper.com/
21:20:38 <flo> Mic: the list is not that short now :)
21:21:17 <Mic> It's full and unclear now :P
21:22:16 <DGMurdockIII> https://www.mesh.com/welcome/default.aspx
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21:23:53 <DGMurdockIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skydrive
21:24:21 <DGMurdockIII> as people who all ready have a msn account hae a skydrive one
21:24:37 <DGMurdockIII> msn messenger i mean
21:26:34 <DGMurdockIII> do those help
21:27:09 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.110mb.com/forum/general-chat/biggest-list-of-free-file-hosting-sites-updated-monthly-t1428.0.html
21:27:25 <flo> I fear we will violate the terms of service of nearly all these sites if we upload and download automatically
21:27:40 <flo> it would not display their ads...
21:29:00 <Mic> Which extension would you like to see most?
21:29:42 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.getdropbox.com/
21:32:38 <Mic> Since it's quite a list now, I'd like to put some order/rating on some of the extension ideas
21:32:51 <flo> I'd like to see people having fun creating stuff. So really, the extension that ones should develop is the one that pleases the developer, or solves one of his problems
21:32:54 <Mic> So people know what we'd really like to have
21:33:54 <flo> so I guess my personal preference doesn't matter much. The best ideas are the ones that will get someone excited to do it :)
21:34:27 <Mic> hmm, hmm, so I uplaoded the star rating icons all for nothing ;)
21:34:46 <Mic> I'm sure we can put them to use somewhere else
21:35:00 <flo> :)
21:37:15 <DGMurdockIII> but i thnk the bigest things that shold be looked in to is the ability to remove a buddy you can add them why not remove them then you need to abilty to block people
21:44:31 <DGMurdockIII> is instantbird multithreaded
21:44:52 <Mic> flo: you recently included notifications, would it be difficult to add other events as well? I'm thinking of sign on/off messages here
21:45:18 <flo> an extension can do it!
21:46:06 <flo> actually, an extension popping up a notification when some specifically interesting (humm :-]) buddy signs on is something I wanted to do :)
21:46:07 <DGMurdockIII> like with growl
21:46:24 <DGMurdockIII> i would like to see a non extenon one done
21:46:35 <flo> ...
21:47:02 <DGMurdockIII> what i mean is
21:47:31 <DGMurdockIII> i like Growl but using it to og swstem hog as u have to have it running in the backround
21:48:25 <DGMurdockIII> and this is somthing that if your going to do it right shold just be built in to the program and no a addon as there is only so much you can do with it as a addon
21:48:54 <flo> it should be built in the OS
21:48:59 <flo> not in each application
21:49:12 <flo> notifications should be consistent across all applications
21:49:14 <deOmega> hey  folks, have an excellent weekend.  fingers crossed on the  windows side of the updates :)
21:49:24 <flo> deOmega: :)
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21:50:11 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
21:51:37 <DGMurdockIII> but you shold built it in to the app and use windows style, linux one and mac ones then just give them a nice look to match the look of the app
21:52:09 <DGMurdockIII> is the current skin/them of instantbird the way it going to stay or will it change
21:52:14 <Mic> "match the look of the app" .. frankly .. skins for applications are a pretty bad idea in my opinion
21:52:24 <Mic> unfortunately it's gettign more and more widespread
21:52:41 <DGMurdockIII> yeah one the stuff works
21:52:51 <DGMurdockIII> you can work on the looks of it
21:53:26 * flo needs to sleep
21:53:28 <flo> good night!
21:53:32 <Mic> good night
21:53:53 <Mic> Figuring out if it's possible to use Windows SideShow would be cool
21:54:38 <DGMurdockIII> the gaget stuff
21:54:39 <DGMurdockIII> ?
21:55:40 <Mic> yes, it allows to access a mini screen e.g. on the outside of notebooks
21:58:19 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Mic2): http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/developers/archive/2009/07/23/is-your-application-ready-for-windows-7-rtm.aspx
22:00:15 <Mic> I don't run Windows 7
22:00:28 <Mic> I'll be away for a while ..
22:00:59 <DGMurdockIII> that just for dvelping a app for it
22:01:35 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/buildabetterapp/watch/taskbar-jumplist.aspx
22:04:43 <DGMurdockIII> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb980924.aspx
22:06:02 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: http://www.2404.org the best pc gaming news • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::)
22:30:53 <Mic> hmm, it's not really a "wish list" anymore
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