#instantbird log on 08 27 2009

All times are UTC.

00:01:18 <flo> I don't think that would be acceptable on mac
00:01:34 <Morian> #ifndef
00:01:36 <Morian> :p
00:01:36 <flo> are you sure that syntax is valid: "border-top, border-left, border-right:none !important;" ?
00:01:55 <Morian> I have never seen such a syntax for CSS properties
00:02:12 <Morian> "," works for selectors, but for properties ... :-s
00:03:08 <Mic> FAIL!
00:03:54 <Mic> You're right ofcourse ..
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00:32:03 <Mic> flo: I've no idea what it looks like on mac
00:32:54 <flo> I think I gave a screenshot when you were debugging the change topic notification bar
00:40:36 <flo> Mic: http://queze.net/goinfre/notifbar.png
00:40:55 <Mic> Thanks, I just found the links
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00:42:24 <Morian> lol
00:42:44 <Morian> mozilla saved us right in time !
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01:17:39 <flo> good night!
01:17:49 <Morian> night
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06:43:08 <GO> Tell me, when will be released instantbird 0.2 beta 1?
06:48:08 <GO> The project is not dead?
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08:13:13 <Morian> woo, he even didn't wait 2 minutes to get an answer :p
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08:58:24 <goulagman> http://www.infos-du-net.com/actualite/photoreportages/161-5-alternative-msn.html#comments
08:58:49 <goulagman> an Instantbird supporter !
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14:37:38 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info added attachment 222 to bug 181.
14:37:39 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 208 on bug 181.
14:37:40 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 222 on bug 181.
14:37:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
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16:31:09 <WQ> Hey!
16:31:38 <Morian> ho
16:35:50 <WQ> 0.3a1pre Release Date?
16:36:28 <Morian> after 0.2 for sure :)
16:37:42 <WQ> Aaa...0.3 is Gecko 1.9.3 and libpurple 2.6.1?
16:38:17 <flo> no
16:38:38 <Morian> 0.2 is gecko 1.9.2 and libpurple 2.6.1, 0.2beta is planed in 1 or maybe 2 months (?)
16:38:40 <flo> 0.2 will have the current libpurple by the time it is ready
16:41:04 <flo> WQ: is there a particular feature that we announced for 0.2 that you can't wait for? :)
16:44:24 <WQ> flo: you Florian Qu?ze?
16:44:33 <flo> yes
16:46:23 <WQ> You to email the letter was to come
16:47:06 <WQ> Flo, you here?
16:47:34 <flo> I'm here
16:48:48 <WQ> tymerkaev@gmail.com - florian@instantbird.org 
16:48:48 <WQ> tymerkaev@gmail.com - It's me
16:48:59 <flo> ah!
16:49:40 <flo> I'm not sure I understand. Would you like to translate the application, the addons, or the addons webiste?
16:49:42 <flo> *website
16:50:13 <WQ> Addons and Website :) 
16:50:52 <WQ> Translate in my language :) 
16:51:05 <flo> Does it make sense to translate the addons and the addons website before we release an officially translated version of the application?
16:52:16 <WQ> Âåðñèÿ âàøåé ïðîãðàììû íà ìî¸ì ÿçûêå óæå åñòü, íî îíà íåîôèöèàëüíàÿ, âîò â ÷¸ì ïðîáëåìà :) 
16:52:26 <WQ> OOOps...
16:52:39 <flo> use UTF8 for non-ascii characters.
16:53:14 <flo> But I'm not sure anybody here would understand your native language, even if we could see the characters
16:53:43 <WQ> Pardon :) 
16:54:27 <WQ> 	Sorry
16:55:38 <WQ> Florian, you took offense at something?
16:56:37 <flo> no, why would I? :)
17:00:31 <WQ> Sorry, but version 0.2 will be localized? ;) 
17:01:10 <flo> yes :)
17:01:23 <flo> We hope so at least.
17:01:32 <flo> Even is still figuring out the details of the process.
17:02:56 <WQ> Help you? ;) 
17:03:25 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 222 on bug 181.
17:03:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
17:04:21 <Morian> WQ: We expect to have all the strings that need to be translated by 0.2beta, it is mostly useless to begin translations before that release since we will change a lot of things.
17:06:35 <WQ> Well, when you do 0.2, send me in email, ok? :) 
17:07:12 <Morian> we'll announce the beta on http://blog.instantbird.org
17:08:02 <flo> WQ: we can't accept requests like "send me an email when ...". We are very likely to have completely forgotten about your request by the time 0.2 is released.
17:08:25 <flo> reading the blog is the best way to stay informed about news releases and important stuff we want to communicate
17:10:15 <WQ> ok
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17:11:38 <WQ> You will be doing updates for 0.1?
17:11:58 <flo> I think so yes
17:12:16 <flo> We will probably update all 0.1.2 and 0.1.3 builds to 0.2 when it's finally released
17:14:24 <WQ> Please make a version 0.1.4pre on Gecko
17:14:44 <flo> why?
17:17:56 <WQ> To the people did not seem that you have abandoned the project :'( 
17:19:50 <WQ> You do not understand the written?
17:20:19 <flo> ah
17:20:38 <flo> if we want to show some activity, I think it would be more efficient to post some nice screenshots of Instantbird 0.2 development builds
17:21:01 <flo> at this point, working more on 0.1.* versions is a pure waste of time.
17:21:15 <flo> 0.2a1 is already far more stable and useful than 0.1.3.*
17:23:11 <WQ> Please show!
17:24:03 <Morian> http://www.instantbird.com/download-0.2a1.html
17:25:53 <WQ> Please show screenshots! :) 
17:26:04 <WQ> instantbird 0.2
17:27:48 <flo> Just an example of what I'm working on: new tabs. The tabs in Instantbird 0.2 will be very similar to the ones in Firefox. At the top of the picture, Firefox tabs. In the middle, Instantbird. http://queze.net/goinfre/tabs-ubuntu.png
17:29:30 <WQ> Beautifully!
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17:38:28 <WQ> http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090827/U5T2sFwneM.png
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17:40:53 <WQ> Add to the IB to minimize to tray
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17:48:23 <Morian> WQ: Minimize to tray is planed for 0.2
17:50:47 <Morian> the language pack on the screenshot is an experimental unofficial language pack for the current nightly (probably incomplete, and since we add new strings to translate nearly everyday, this language pack is useless at the moment)
17:54:28 <WQ> Russian (RU) Language Pack?
17:54:53 <Morian> yes I talk about it
17:55:19 <Morian> there is no official or serious language pack at the time we speak.
17:56:01 <Morian> but once 0.2beta will be out, I hope we'll have a lot of them :)
17:57:27 <WQ> Morian, you are developer?
17:57:43 <Morian> yes I am
17:58:54 <WQ> Do you have a Gmail Account?
17:59:50 <WQ> Just wanted to talk to you in Google Talk
17:59:55 <WQ>  :) 
18:01:07 <Morian> I am a bit busy right now, but we can also speak in this channel or in private on IRC if you prefer
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18:54:40 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info added attachment 223 to bug 181.
18:54:41 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 223 on bug 181.
18:54:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
19:23:13 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 223 on bug 181.
19:23:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
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19:54:11 <Mic> good evening
19:55:21 <Morian> hi mic
20:05:03 <Morian> If all goes well, you sould be able to drag and drop accounts in the next nightly, and have the new tab system in 1 or 2 days :)
20:06:50 <Mic> oho, very cool
20:06:52 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info added attachment 224 to bug 181.
20:06:53 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 224 on bug 181.
20:06:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
20:07:52 <Mic> instantbot: what are the odds on r+ for attachment 224?
20:07:56 <instantbot> Mic: Sorry, I've no idea what 'the odds on r+ for attachment 224' are.
20:08:25 <Morian> 100%
20:09:35 <Morian> !8ball Am I going to get r+ for this patch?
20:09:36 <instantbot> Morian: The outlook is poor.
20:09:38 <Morian> -_-
20:13:24 <flo> Mic: r- :)
20:18:01 <Morian> !8ball Am I going to get r+ for this patch this time?
20:18:02 <instantbot> Morian: Yes!
20:18:52 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info added attachment 225 to bug 181.
20:18:53 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 224 on bug 181.
20:18:54 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 225 on bug 181.
20:18:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
20:26:20 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 225 on bug 181.
20:26:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, ASSI, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
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20:40:28 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2a1. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightly builds are at http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/ (for testing purpose only)."
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21:00:32 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/df6d43639c9a - Romain Bezut - Remove workaround for bug 506491 now that it is fixed on the mozilla-1.9.2 branch.
21:00:33 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/fa203d705e44 - Romain Bezut - Bug 181 - Accounts reordering (shift+up/down arrows, context menu, drag&drop). r=fqueze
21:00:34 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2a9d37490191 - Romain Bezut - Avoid error message during shutdown when reentering the purpleCoreService::Quit method. r=fqueze
21:01:21 <Morian> "mouhahaha"
21:04:41 <Morian> Mic: have you done something to fix the double border on notifications ?
21:05:38 <Mic> Just what I posted as comment on the bug
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21:06:42 <Mic> It looks fine on Windows  with the Luna and Royale themes, with Windows 2000 it is still an improvement I think
21:07:01 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info set the Resolution field on bug 181 to FIXED.
21:07:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 enh, --, 0.2, romain, RESO FIXED, make account reordering possible (shift+up/down arrow, drag&drop, context menu)
21:07:44 <Mic> flo said it is FAIL (or words to that effect) on mac
21:08:57 <flo> we can still put an ifdef if that's the only problem :)
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21:14:28 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 176 to FIXED.
21:14:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 enh, --, 0.2b1, romain, RESO FIXED, Account manager improvements tracking bug
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21:24:01 <Morian> instantbot: roadmap
21:24:02 <instantbot> Morian: You can find the roadmap at http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
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21:49:24 <Mic> Morian: if you try the code on the bug 148, does it fix the problem on Linux?
21:49:27 <instantbot> Mic: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS issue with Nofications on Linux / Windows
21:49:47 * Morian tries
21:50:03 <Mic> Some more visual brainstorming: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5937/newconversationwindow.png
21:50:45 <Morian> send button ++
21:51:12 <Morian> is it possible to invite people with irc ?
21:51:14 <Morian> :-s
21:51:15 <Mic> Ah, ok. Then: which of the mentioned sort of people do you belong to ? :P
21:51:37 <Morian> ko
21:51:40 <Morian> ok *
21:51:46 <Mic> Did it work?
21:51:49 <Morian> yes
21:51:54 <flo> I think "we" have argued for hours about the "Send" button :)
21:51:57 <Morian> well I had the prompt
21:52:06 <Morian> and ?
21:52:46 <Morian> a small pref in about:config to remove it for power users
21:52:54 <flo> trying to determine the usecases, etc...
21:53:26 <Morian> quite simple ... someone type, and look for hours how to send it ><'
21:53:31 <flo> basically, it is useful for beginners who don't know they can press enter
21:53:38 <Morian> they s?he gives up
21:53:49 <Morian> yes
21:53:56 <Morian> and we want it by default
21:54:01 <flo> and for users who copy/paste with the mouse without using the keyboard. Lots of linux users. Some Windows/mac users if they have additionnal buttons on their mouses.
21:54:29 <Morian> lots of linux users ?
21:54:33 <flo> and it's a total waste of space for everybody else
21:54:47 <Morian> hence the pref ...
21:55:09 <flo> Morian: yes, with the X clipboard. When you use the middle button/wheel of the mouse to paste.
21:55:14 <Morian> if i am a beginner and don't know that I have to push enter, I won't be able to change a pref
21:55:25 <Morian> ah
21:56:06 <Morian> well, if I have time, I'll do some refactoring in the conversation window and especially in chats (after the buddy list ...
21:56:38 <Mic> I see your point, frankly: I rarely use like 5 lines with a hundred letters each on the textinput .. so I can live with a little space less on it
21:56:55 <Mic> *could
21:57:14 <Morian> Mic++, but a pref is still better and has no cost ...
21:57:23 <Mic> sure
21:57:37 <flo> I think one of the interesting idea was to have the send button "auto adapt".
21:58:00 <flo> very visible "at the beginning", and shrinking when you use enter a lot
21:58:23 <Morian> :-s
21:58:26 <Mic> *bling!* You haven't send your message for 20 minutes now. Maybe you are looking for a send button *send button appears*
21:58:28 <flo> make it disappear completely after a lot of use of enter.
21:58:37 <Morian> lol Mic :p
21:59:00 <flo> but make it reappear when hovering the border of the input box, so that pasting with the mouse only remains possible
21:59:06 * Morian votes to count the number of click on the button and the number of "real" enter
21:59:21 <Mic> hmm, maybe just put a splitter next to it so you can hide it with a single click?
21:59:26 <Morian> if > 95% enter in ~70 entries, then hide
21:59:39 <flo> Morian: if we count the number of enter, we will also take into account the number of clicks
21:59:47 <Morian> of course ...
22:00:04 <Morian> that's what I've just said :-s
22:00:12 <Morian> Mic:
22:00:12 <Morian> notification > hbox {
22:00:12 <Morian>   border: none!important;
22:00:12 <Morian>   border-bottom: 1px solid ThreeDShadow!important;
22:00:12 <Morian> }
22:00:24 <Morian> is shorter :)
22:00:28 * Morian tries
22:00:33 <flo> I'm not really happy with the idea of an autoadaptative UI. It's great if it works very well, but it has a good potential for sucking a lot if we get some details wrong
22:00:34 <Mic> I thought I tried that and it didn't work for some reason?
22:00:58 <Morian> works for me
22:00:59 <Mic> I think the !important prevented overwriting the border-bottom or so ?
22:01:07 <Mic> hmm, ok. Fine with me
22:01:08 <flo> Mic: well, yes, maybe it could "manually" adapt with a splitter
22:01:48 <Morian> we'll see, instantbot has logged all that stuff now :p
22:02:09 <Morian> (until my HDD crashes)
22:02:09 <Mic> The cost would be about zero compared to a system that statistically evaluates user behaviour ;)
22:02:23 * Morian for both at the same time
22:02:24 <Morian> :-D
22:02:56 <flo> Mic: depends on which cost you look at.
22:03:15 <flo> what happens if your beginners clicks on the splitter instead of the button, and make the button disappear?
22:03:31 <Morian> ><
22:04:02 <flo> the button and the splitter will touch each other, so that's a very likely error
22:04:15 * Morian votes for a 3 value thing, 0 -> hidden, 1 -> visible, 2 -> adaptative mode
22:04:42 <Morian> so that it could be set always to visible if we need to
22:04:51 * flo thinks it's too early in the debate to vote
22:05:05 <Morian> -_-
22:05:18 <Morian> anyway if I implement it I'll win ;)
22:05:23 <Morian> :p
22:05:32 <flo> you'll win a r- :-P
22:05:57 <Morian> I'll make you push it while you're drunk or something
22:05:58 <Morian> ><'
22:06:10 <flo> ahah$
22:06:22 <flo> I can still push a backout the next day ;)
22:06:54 <Morian> %ifndef XP_MACOSX
22:06:54 <Morian> notification > hbox {
22:06:54 <Morian>   border: none!important;
22:06:54 <Morian>   border-bottom: 1px solid ThreeDShadow!important;
22:06:58 <Morian> }
22:07:00 <Morian> %endif
22:07:01 <flo> I think big buttons are ugly on mac. (by "big" I mean with a bigger height than usual)
22:07:02 <Morian> works like a charm :)
22:08:11 <flo> Morian: coding stye: space before !important
22:08:12 <flo> :)
22:08:24 <Morian> Mic had spaces ...
22:08:36 <Morian> I removed then thinking it was coding style ...
22:08:37 <Morian> -_-
22:08:43 <flo> :)
22:09:48 * Morian posts the patch
22:10:10 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info added attachment 226 to bug 148.
22:10:11 <instantbot> romain@bezut.info requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 226 on bug 148.
22:10:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS issue with Nofications on Linux / Windows
22:11:42 <Mic> flo: just labeled buttons or any? Would an 'image button' with a symbol that resembles and enter-key be ok? 
22:12:15 <flo> using an image would be ok, yes
22:12:26 <flo> but it's hard to have an image that autoadapt
22:12:44 <flo> (on your mockup, the send button has the same height as the input box, which is resizeable)
22:15:38 <Mic> I think we can figure out something if we really want to do it this way
22:15:55 <flo> sure
22:16:10 <Mic> What about other items on this screen? Like the 'local user' box on the bottom right
22:16:42 <flo> I don't really understand the purpose of that. You would be in the same irc channel with several nicks at once?
22:16:43 <Mic> (don't beat me, but the layout is similiar to skype chats)
22:17:19 <Mic> This item is adressing the "which account" issue ..
22:17:53 <Mic> It's of limited use on IRC ofcourse (like the buddy icon and extra info that's mentioned there)
22:18:49 <flo> if it's for IMs (by opposition to MUCs), there's no nicklist, so... it would take space from the inputbox?
22:19:30 * Morian doesn't agree with the thing at the bottom right
22:20:41 <Mic> It seems I was under the mistaken impression that we wanted to have such a bar for IMs as well (with a big buddyitem with buddy icon and whatsoever of your chatpartner) ?
22:21:51 <flo> In my imagination (maybe I should start making mockups too?) it would be a bar at the place where you currently see the topic in channels
22:22:08 <flo> there would be a "From:" and "To:" line, a bit like for emails
22:22:30 <flo> and drop downs to select which account you use to talk, and which account of your contact you talk to
22:22:46 <flo> that would also display your status and your contact's status
22:23:09 <flo> of course, if would be auto-adaptative depending on the context. If you have only one account that you can use to talk to that person, there's no need for a drop down
22:23:26 <Morian> status in the drop down list ?
22:23:29 <flo> I don't know yet what a correct layout may be for all that.
22:23:46 <Mic> hmm, ok
22:23:56 <Mic> I can do a mockup in this style if you like
22:24:17 <flo> I think I'd like to handle XMPP resources (of the contact) like accounts.
22:24:41 <flo> the goal is more to decide where the contact will receive the message than which protocol will be used
22:25:09 <Morian> the dropdown can become very large if you include that
22:26:02 <Mic> ah, how I'd like to have typeaheadfind in anything that even remotely resembles a list
22:26:35 <Mic> maybe more like "typeaheadfilter" that hides anythings that doesn't match
22:28:26 <flo> "00:20:41 - Mic: It seems I was under the mistaken impression that […]" Note that it's often on purpose that I give only vague indications of what I plan for future UI changes. I take into account what others think/imagine, and sometimes it's better than what I had already thought :).
22:33:22 <Mic> I guess none of you will need that, but it could be useful for others: http://www.hevanet.com/acorbin/xul/top.xul
22:43:57 <Mic> flo, Morian: you're fine with me moving parts of this discussion (it was public anyways) to the wiki?
22:44:11 <flo> sure!
22:44:16 <Morian> of course
22:44:26 <Morian> logs are public :)