#instantbird log on 12 03 2013

All times are UTC.

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00:25:04 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 2254 to FIXED.
00:25:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2254 enh, --, 1.5, aleth, RESO FIXED, Open conversations when joinChat is called for better responsiveness
00:27:37 <clokep> aleth++++++++++++
00:27:44 <clokep> He has the last like 8 patches!
00:33:58 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/356bd889969c - aleth - Bug 2254 - Open conversations when joinChat is called for better responsiveness, r=clokep.
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01:59:24 <clokep> For those of you who are interested, I wrote one of those posts on GSoC: http://clokep.blogspot.com/2013/12/gsoc-lessons-part-1-application-period.html
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04:15:20 <instant-buildbot> build #1040 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/1040
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07:54:55 <instant-buildbot> build #1177 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/1177
08:00:47 <instant-buildbot> build #1279 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [3build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/1279
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12:02:00 <flo-retina> clokep: great post!
12:03:56 <flo-retina> I would be curious to have more context for "Even after being part of the community, I find that GSoC students are often very unwilling to publicly share code unless it's "perfect"". Do you mean "after being part of the community, *during their first weeks as GSoC students* , they often unwilling to share their code" or "ever after being part of the community and doing GSoC (ie. after GSoC is over), students are unwilling to share WIPs"
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12:54:12 <clokep_> Thanks for the feedback flo-retina. :)
13:04:03 <flo-retina> today is a resweep day. So I saw the notification bar for the first time: http://i1.minus.com/ipdrOVpfgBflk.png
13:05:58 <flo-retina> there seem to be some vertical alignment problem
13:06:05 <flo-retina> maybe due to hiding the icon.
13:06:48 <flo-retina> it also feels a bit wrong that at some point the notification bar disappears, and then one or two seconds later the order of the items changes
13:07:06 <flo-retina> I would expect the ranking to be stable once the notification bar is gone
13:16:20 <clokep_> I agree.
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14:33:18 <ecmuller> Is there any plans to change the google talk icons to the hangouts icon
14:34:35 <ecmuller> It'd be easier to tell the difference between online and offline at a glance.  The Google Talk icon is hard to tell if it's greyed out or not
14:34:53 <clokep_> We grey out icons? :-S
14:35:08 <clokep_> ecmuller: I hadn't thought about changing it, not sure if anyone else has.
14:35:18 <clokep_> I couldn't even tell you what the hangouts icon looks like. ;)
14:35:29 <ecmuller> Like if you have a conversation on hold
14:35:50 <ecmuller> and the person isn't online
14:35:56 <clokep_> Isn't there a little gray dot?
14:36:04 <clokep_> Or a little green / red dot, depending on the status?
14:36:07 <ecmuller> There is a grey dot, but also the protocol icon
14:36:24 <clokep_> So you're saying it's hard to say the gray dot on that icon or that the icon itself is gray? :-S
14:36:37 <ecmuller> the icon itself
14:37:04 <ecmuller> The talk icon is white mostly
14:37:39 <ecmuller> the facebook icon is blue, so when it's offline it's a pale greyish blue, but online it's quite bold
14:37:49 <ecmuller> the hangouts icon is basically bright green
14:38:33 <clokep_> Oh, maybe we reduce the opacity.
14:39:01 <clokep_> Hmm...well...we'd need an open source compatible version of the icon and someone to put it into the right sizes.
14:39:12 <ecmuller> There isn't a green dot for online, just the protocol icon
14:39:25 * clokep_ wonders if they use the GTalk icon at all anymore.
14:40:00 <ecmuller> So going from light with a grey dot to a mostly white icon isn't easy to see the difference quickly
14:40:09 <ecmuller> Google doesn't use the icon anymore
14:40:23 <ecmuller> They rolled it into hangouts
14:41:35 <clokep_> I know they half merged Talk into Hangouts.
14:42:03 <flo-retina> ecmuller: so what are you actually trying to see?
14:42:31 * flo-retina didn't know the status of conversations on hold was important
14:42:49 <ecmuller> It's not important really
14:43:27 <ecmuller> There's a handful of people that flip on and off throughout the day that I talk to
14:44:09 <ecmuller> I just noticed that other protocol icons stand out more than the google talk icon when they are online
14:44:15 <clokep_> ecmuller: Don't think we're trying to just be difficult please, just trying to understand the actual problem! :) If it's an issue for you w/ one icon..maybe it's an issue for others w/ different icons and we shouldn't be using that method to show you status...
14:44:28 <clokep_> We're trying to understand the problem at the core.
14:44:54 <ecmuller> It could be an issue with any light coloured protocol icon
14:45:19 <flo-retina> I don't remember trying to show anything there with the opacity change
14:45:22 <ecmuller> I suppose it would be a problem with the irc icon as well for example, but that's handled entirely differently
14:45:34 <flo-retina> so it may be by accident if we change the opacity there
14:46:23 <ecmuller> Well, offline is low-opacity with the grey ball, online is full opacity, with either nothing, or mobile, or the red ball
14:47:17 <ecmuller> the online and available isn't as easy to spot vs. offline
14:49:05 <flo-retina> so maybe we want to put the green dot for available contacts? And/or stop the low-opacity icon for "offline".
14:49:22 <ecmuller> I like the lowered opacity actually
14:49:39 <ecmuller> a green dot may help
14:50:54 <ecmuller> Perhaps swapping the position of the status and protocol icon?
14:51:42 <ecmuller> I mostly like the current behaviour
14:53:31 <ecmuller> This isn't really a big issue for me either, it's just something that suddenly struck me
14:57:09 <flo-retina> ecmuller: "Perhaps swapping the position of the status and protocol icon?" a smaller protocol icon wouldn't really be visible
14:57:22 <ecmuller> true enough
14:57:48 <ecmuller> pidgin did something like that, I haven't used it in quite a while though so I can't really recall how it looked
14:58:00 <ecmuller> I remember it being sort of controversial
14:58:37 <clokep_> I wouldn't really look to Pidgin for UI guidance. :-D
14:58:54 <clokep_> I think adding the green dot would make it clearer...
14:59:05 <ecmuller> lol
14:59:17 <clokep_> I'd guess we reduce opacity of offline contacts...but most of us probably don't view offline contacts at all in our contact list...
15:01:50 <ecmuller> It's mostly being able to tell from my perhiphery if someone came online
15:02:27 <ecmuller> I kind of use the conversations on hold to do that, I otherwise have them hidden
15:02:42 <ecmuller> if there's someone I'm waiting to show up for some reaon
15:03:15 <clokep_> Sounds like you want buddy pounces.
15:03:31 <ecmuller> I have used those
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15:06:01 <ecmuller> It's not that I want to talk to them every time they sign on, it's just a group of people that are on and off all day, and at some points I might have something to contact them for
15:07:01 <ecmuller> I suppose I could look to see if they are on at that time, or set up a pounce then.  Having the conversation on hold is just a quick list that lets me determine that at a glance
15:07:57 <clokep_> Got it.
15:08:26 <ecmuller> When someone using the facebook chat signs on it's easy to tell even without looking directly at it that a status has changed
15:08:51 <ecmuller> then I can glance over and see who it is
15:09:04 <ecmuller> with google talk it's less clear
15:09:54 <flo-retina> would showing a popup notification whenever someone in a specific group becomes online help?
15:10:16 <ecmuller> That'd be kind of annoying
15:10:36 <flo-retina> do you keep the contacts window always visible on your screen?
15:11:00 <ecmuller> Mostly
15:11:42 <ecmuller> It's just sort of sitting there sublime
15:11:55 <ecmuller> it doesn't demand much of my attention
15:14:31 <flo-retina> do you look at the list once in a while when you have something to say, or do you want the status change to attract your attention?
15:15:10 <ecmuller> Sort of both
15:15:20 <flo-retina> for the first case, I think the awesometab would help
15:16:18 <ecmuller> Yeah I've noticed you guys have been playing with that recently, I've been liking the changes
15:17:18 <ecmuller> I would have to have another window open for that, and it's larger
15:18:06 <ecmuller> I'm not looking to have something obnoxious that draws my attention either, just something that I can notice
15:18:47 <flo-retina> so maybe an activity stream at the top of the contacts window?
15:18:58 <flo-retina> with the list of the last few relevant events?
15:19:43 <ecmuller> That might be nice, when I use finch I usually set up a log window with tail so I can watch that
15:20:01 <ecmuller> I'm not sure that's quite what I want
15:20:18 <ecmuller> I have a few thousand people in the contacts
15:21:23 <ecmuller> So to have someone I don't care about flipping their status every few seconds for most of the day, I don't want to know about that
15:21:46 <flo-retina> clokep_: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/Makefile.in#66
15:22:11 <flo-retina> looks like that was the solution to fix objdirs after removing vkontakte
15:22:31 <flo-retina> make backend.RecursiveMakeBackend at the top level
15:22:33 <clokep_> flo-retina: Looks like it, yes. You going to port it? :P
15:22:40 <clokep_> Or do we just need to call that?
15:22:56 <flo-retina> apparently it more or less expects things to be started with mach though :(
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17:19:07 <aleth> Looks like the notification bar during log sweeping is definitely worth it on a NFS drive ;)
17:27:38 <aleth> Ah, the XMPP contacts are now ranked reasonably.
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17:36:57 <aleth> flo: It's possible these rules don't work well on Mac, as notification.css (from toolkit) is very different for OSX http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/blist.css#151
17:37:15 <aleth> The text is centered correctly on Linux.
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17:42:03 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2265 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
17:42:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2265 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Delete all computed scores when log sweeping is complete
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18:50:44 <hadi> Hello
18:50:53 <clokep_> Hello hadi.
18:51:48 <hadi> clokep_ hi :). i had a general question regardin  instantbird and irc
18:52:19 <clokep_> hadi: Please just go ahead and ask any questions, hopefully someone has an ansewr. ;)
18:52:25 <hadi> How can i bring up a conversation once it is closed in the app? like if the global window is closed, so i can't enter any commands
18:53:35 <hadi> I assume i have to reconnect to the network to get the global window opened again?
18:54:28 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from nhnt11@gmail.com for attachment 3109 on bug 2265.
18:54:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2265 min, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Delete all computed scores when log sweeping is complete
18:54:57 <clokep_> hadi: I don't understand what "global window" means, do you mean the contact list? (Are you on a Mac?)
18:55:18 <clokep_> hadi: My guess is File > Join Chat...
18:59:33 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 2266 filed by aleth@instantbird.org.
18:59:34 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3110 on bug 2266.
18:59:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2266 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Ensure awesometab is refreshed immediately after log sweeping
19:00:06 <aleth> hadi: Conversations with contacts, or IRC channels, or...?
19:00:44 <hadi> with the IRC global window itself
19:01:17 <hadi> clokep_: no i'm on windows
19:01:37 <aleth> hadi: Try "Join chat" or "New conversation" (if you are on a nightly) from the menu
19:01:57 <aleth> I have no idea what the global window is either though ;)
19:02:59 <hadi> aleth: oo  great. this is what i was looking for... instabird noob  B)
19:03:29 <aleth> No problem!
19:05:35 <hadi> I have another question as well, Any ideas what hotkeys to press to jump the focus to the input? i'm using a ScreenReader since i'm blind, when i'm navigating the focus drops to the links which are in the output so i have to press tab untill i hit the input again.
19:06:21 <aleth> Hmm... maybe Shift-TAB gets you there faster?
19:06:46 <aleth> Here's the keyboard shortcuts https://wiki.instantbird.org/Keyboard_shortcuts
19:07:10 <aleth> There doesn't seem to be one to focus the input box. Please file a bug if you feel there should be one!
19:09:38 <hadi> aleth: shift tab just is the opposite cycle. I might file a bug, but don't know if i could do that with my fair english language
19:09:40 <flo-retina> typing any key usually focuses the input box
19:09:49 <flo-retina> (and inserts that letter in the input box)
19:10:05 <flo-retina> not sure if it works when a link is focused though
19:10:11 <aleth> flo-retina: D'oh! Didn't think of that.
19:10:27 <aleth> It works.
19:10:36 <aleth> hadi: Can you confirm it works for you?
19:11:57 <hadi> Oh, it does work for me, if i turn the virtual navigation feature off. (it's for ScreenReaders,  arrow keys+shortcuts for jumping to links/buttons/other elements
19:12:22 <hadi> my SR treats the output window like a web browser window it seems.
19:12:41 <aleth> hadi: If you feel it could/should be improved, please don't be afraid to file a bug (https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/enter_bug.cgihttps://bugzilla.instantbird.org/enter_bug.cgi)
19:12:42 <flo-retina> it is one. Messages are displayed using HTML
19:12:43 <clokep_> It is a browser window, so that makes sense. :)
19:13:04 <aleth> hadi: Which screen reader do you use?
19:14:09 <hadi> Oh makes sense lol. I have no idea if it could be possible to include my suggestion or not, for example adding the hotkey alt+e (if it does not exist) puts you in the input box
19:14:22 <hadi> aleth: I use JAWS
19:14:58 <aleth> hadi: I asked because we've had a lot of feedback from NVDA 
19:15:00 <hadi> it implements some kind of virtual viewer when it hits browser pages, so basicly it steals your hotkeys for other navigation purposes
19:15:32 <aleth> That's good to know (and little we can do about it). But if you just start typing your message, it should always go straight to the input box.
19:15:38 <hadi> I have NVDA as well, but i believe NVDA is the same thing?
19:16:46 <aleth> I have no idea what the precise differences are.
19:17:07 <hadi> aleth it does not work.. :( for  instance pressing G, will take my focus to the  smily that you posted above, the ":)" one..
19:17:56 <aleth> hadi: That's definitely JAWS behaving badly then ;)
19:17:56 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 3110 on bug 2266.
19:17:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2266 min, --, ---, aleth, NEW, Ensure awesometab is refreshed immediately after log sweeping
19:18:07 <hadi> I'll see if i can find a quick hotkey in my screenreader to turn the virtualviewer off or something
19:19:16 <hadi> aleth: no, not badly, it's useful when  we navigate through webpages, you can press l for links, g for graphics,  f for buttons... but not in this case!
19:19:35 <aleth> hadi: I was joking. It's just not something we knew about.
19:21:41 * clokep_ wonders if https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib-1-5 is still up to date.
19:21:46 <hadi> aleth: right :d
19:22:16 <aleth> Therefore the request to file bugs if you have good ideas/encounter issues ;)
19:22:36 <aleth> clokep_: I don't know what's left beyond https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=1.5-blocking
19:23:51 <hadi> aleth: I will, thanks
19:23:54 <hadi> thanks for helpin!
19:24:03 <clokep_> aleth: I updated the etherpad a bit
19:26:00 <flo-retina> aleth: are you taking the conv on hold one?
19:26:14 <flo-retina> aleth: I was hoping to have a go at the time bubbles one in the train tomorrow morning
19:26:34 <flo-retina> if I'm awake enough to do some coding (it will be too early for me, but I may get some stuff done...)
19:27:21 <aleth> flo-retina: I don't know if I will get around to it. It requires a bit of thinking.
19:27:38 <flo-retina> they both do
19:27:51 <flo-retina> I remember trying to patch time bubbles in the hotel during the summit evenings, and failing
19:27:57 <flo-retina> it was more complicated than it looked
19:28:04 <hadi> Is it possible to replace sounds of instabird for notifications? i couldn't find any soundfiles in the installation directory
19:28:04 <aleth> It always is :-/
19:28:14 <aleth> hadi: You can do it by making your own sound theme
19:28:44 <aleth> Grab this add-on https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/323, unzip it, and modify it to suit your tastes
19:28:55 <aleth> Then upload to the addon site to share it ;)
19:29:23 <hadi> aleth: amazing great thanks!
19:29:31 <flo-retina> aleth: looking at bug 2265's patch, why is the delete at this specific line, and not somewhere elese?
19:29:51 <flo-retina> wouldn't it make more sense to do it when you are done or when you start tinkering with the stats object?
19:29:56 <aleth> It's right after we modify the stats entry.
19:30:10 <flo-retina> doesn't stats.lastDate have an impact too?
19:30:26 <aleth> Compare http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/ibConvStatsService.js#526
19:30:49 <aleth> flo-retina: You're right, maybe it should be a line further down then.
19:31:20 <flo-retina> if you move it after |stats.lastDate = date;|, I guess you can get r+ from me if nhnt11 doesn't look at it soon
19:31:41 <aleth> I don't think it makes a difference now, but it's better to be consistent
19:33:21 <hadi> aleth: i got a .XPI file, it seems that i can't extract it, even with winrar
19:33:39 <clokep_> hadi: Try renaming it to .zip.
19:33:49 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org cancelled review?(nhnt11@gmail.com) for attachment 3109 on bug 2265.
19:33:50 <instantbot> aleth@instantbird.org requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 3111 on bug 2265.
19:33:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2265 min, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Delete all computed scores when log sweeping is complete
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19:34:31 <aleth> hadi: This might also be useful https://wiki.instantbird.org/Main_Page
19:35:16 <hadi> clokep_: wow that was smart. it  worked
19:35:22 <hadi> aleth thank you
19:37:35 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 3111 on bug 2265.
19:37:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2265 min, --, ---, aleth, ASSI, Delete all computed scores when log sweeping is complete
19:39:26 <hadi> that's amazing, I might try to translate instantbird, in Persian. Have to check tortoise to see if i can work with it though
19:39:42 <aleth> hadi: That would be great! :)
19:40:10 <clokep_> Tortoise is just a suggestion, you can use whatever Mercurial client you want
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19:46:06 <hadi> Well, I have never worked with such clients. so tortoise should be fine i guess
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20:10:45 <hadi> is the incoming message notification sound supposed to play when the conversation window is not opened? or it always plays when you get messages
20:12:50 <clokep_> hadi: It plays whenever you get a message in a private chat or if someone directs a message to you in a chatroom.
20:12:56 <clokep_> (I forget if it's the same sound or not though. :))
20:13:53 <hadi> Oh thanks that makes sense. can i test a PM?
20:14:40 <hadi> clokep_: on you that is.. :)
20:16:24 <clokep_> hadi: Sure.
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22:32:41 <flo-retina> I just gave a quick look at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/locales/en-US/yahoo.properties
22:32:54 <flo-retina> I'll definitively have some review comments :-/
22:33:12 <flo-retina> "login.error.unknown=Unknown Error %S" needs at least a localization note.
22:33:26 <flo-retina> I've no idea of the context for "network.error.http=HTTP connection error."; why do we even need this?
22:33:47 <flo-retina> options.proxySSL should just be removed
22:33:57 <flo-retina> and probably options.chatLocale too
22:34:32 <flo-retina> I hope the options.transferHost/Port strings are never displayed in the UI (as we don't support file transfer), but it's not a problem if they are in the locales file; if we intend to use them eventually
22:34:46 <flo-retina> I don't think any user can understand what "Pager port" means.
22:34:56 <flo-retina> is this just meant to be "Port"?
22:38:16 <clokep> qheaden: ^
22:38:25 <clokep> I believe it's just "Port" though, yes.
22:38:28 <flo-retina> the HTTP error is from http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/yahoo/yahoo-session.jsm#595 The code doesn't seem to help much here. It seems a generic error. Note that the indent is wrong ;).
22:39:47 <clokep> I'd like qheaden to take a look at these, but if he doesn't have time I'll do a patch.
22:41:19 <flo-retina> clokep: don't bother rev'ing the string ids. I checked who localized this file already: only 2 localizers did, and I'm pretty sure they use the rss feed of en-US or something, so I think they can pickup changes even without id change.
22:41:29 <flo-retina> if they don't notice we'll email them; I'm sure they are responsive.
22:41:35 <clokep> flo-retina: Thanks. :)
22:42:19 * flo-retina goes to bed
22:43:23 <clokep> 'night!
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