#instantbird log on 03 03 2013

All times are UTC.

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03:41:32 <instant-buildbot> build #796 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/796
04:31:26 <instant-buildbot> build #793 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/793
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05:45:41 <instant-buildbot> build #887 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/887
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14:49:10 <clokep> Mic: Vaguely.
15:01:37 * clokep finds https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/IDjMJNczoKg interesting
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16:03:48 <dew> a little bit over my head
16:13:03 <clokep> dew: ?
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16:34:01 <dew> I read the first post of your link
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16:39:31 <clokep> Ah.
16:40:02 <clokep> It's not too complicated...my major point was that we have that code in imXPCOMUtils, which it seems we could eventually get rid of. :)
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17:20:25 <Mic> clokep: I wanted to have a little chat about it so I could show something in a screenshot ;)
17:20:38 <Mic> Unfortunately I broke it again and haven't fixed it yet...
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17:34:01 <flo-retina> why do I have a system message saying "Channel mode +ntr set by gravel.mozilla.org." 5 seconds after "Mode +oq for flo-retina set by ChanServ."
17:34:23 <flo-retina> that system message is already of limited value, but having it several seconds later makes it "surprising"
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17:49:11 <clokep> Mic: Ah, I see. :( Sorry I had left by the time you said that.
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17:49:41 <clokep> flo-retina: They're always separate messages.
17:50:06 <clokep> And I thinkw e all agree they're not really useful messages.
17:50:09 <flo-retina> why is that message useful?
17:50:20 <flo-retina> heh, not typing quickly enough :)
17:51:12 <clokep> Why is which message useful?
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17:51:22 <flo-retina> the channel mode
17:51:35 <clokep> We request it on join so we know whether the topic, etc. can be changed.
17:51:49 <clokep> I think we show it in case the user requsts it.
17:52:00 <clokep> We could probably not show it when we request it automatically.
17:52:22 <flo-retina> ah, so the user could actually request it by the /mode command later
17:52:28 <clokep> Yes.
17:52:29 <flo-retina> yeah, we shouldn't show it automatically then
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17:53:02 <clokep> (I think that was the thought process at least.)
17:53:11 <clokep> Personally I dislike ever showing the mode in system messages...
17:53:32 <clokep> I think I'd rather it be in the tooltip or something.
17:54:04 <flo-retina> would be nice if it could be more readable than "+ntr" which is completely meaningless to me
17:54:47 <flo-retina> "This channel is password protected" could make sense for example
17:55:03 <flo-retina> (in the tooltip I mean)
17:55:17 <clokep> Yes, we have bugs about this.
17:55:24 <flo-retina> :)
17:55:51 <clokep> flo-retina: bug 1420
17:55:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1420 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve mode system messages
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17:56:05 <clokep> Feel free to CC yourself. ;)
17:56:28 <flo-retina> not really useful on bio bugs ;)
17:56:37 <Mic> Speaking of tooltips: http://i.imgur.com/RSkBTkS.png :)
17:56:59 <clokep> Mic: What is that choosing to show?
17:57:06 <clokep> All unread messages? The last n? The last n unread messages?
17:57:36 <flo-retina> Mic: shouldn't that tooltip also say "Unread messages: N" "Unread messages mentioning you: n" ?
17:58:33 <Mic> clokep: the latest three (customizable) messages, so you get an idea what's currently going on in a channel
17:58:59 <flo-retina> Mic: are the messages converted to plain text? (if they contain HTML formattings)
17:59:07 <Mic> flo-retina: yes.
17:59:09 <flo-retina> :)
17:59:48 <Mic> flo-retina: this is only on tooltips of conversations on hold and these have the unread counters already.
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18:00:25 <flo-retina> Mic: my point was that the meaning of the red and blue numbers may not be immediately obvious, and it could be nice to explain in the tooltip, for discoverability
18:00:29 <Mic> I expected it to work for tabs too but it doesn't. I haven't looked into this yet.
18:01:25 <clokep> Mic: I'm still confused by what that means ("customizable"? YOu just mean that three is not hard coded?)
18:02:38 <flo-retina> clokep: my guess is that means it's in about:config
18:02:52 <Mic> It's hard coded but not so hard coded that you couldn't change it (currently read from a field in an object that's exported from a module). I want to add it to the add-on options, too.
18:08:01 <Mic> Extending the tooltips isn't really fun at the moment. Maybe a helper module would be nice where you could register callbacks that are run when the tooltip is updated...
18:08:26 <clokep> Is this something we'd want in core btw?
18:09:13 <Mic> I'm not even sure if you could have two add-ons extending the tooltips at the moment...
18:14:35 <Mic> clokep: is "this" a module to help with the tooltips or "showing the latest activity in a channel"?
18:15:14 <Mic> I'd like the first and I'm not sure about the latter.
18:36:47 <aleth> It sounds like it would be nice to have this in the core.
18:37:06 <aleth> Isn't there a bug for redesigning the tooltips already somewhere?
18:38:15 <aleth> Mic: How about showing the last ,<=N _unread_ messages? I don't think the feature is very useful if you've already read them
18:42:08 <Mic> aleth: the redesign-tooltips bug is more about the layout and look iirc
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18:45:05 <Mic> From #developers:
18:45:08 <Mic> 19:37:47 - tbsaunde: jcranmer|away: any reason can't merge venkman / chatzilla / dom-inspector into mozilla-central yet?
18:45:11 <Mic> :S
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18:46:45 <Mic> Chatzilla in m-c? What's next? A mail client and html editor?
18:47:44 <aleth> Some visual tool for creating <frame>s would be nice ;)
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19:12:58 <clokep> Mic: I meant the feature, showing the last message in a chnanel.
19:22:40 <dew> must convert all mozilla devs from chatzilla to instantbird
19:24:34 <flo-retina> Mic: what's been the replies to that?
19:25:03 <Mic> lmctfy
19:25:46 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/152025
19:26:16 <Mic> It ended as a long discussion about merging c-c into m-c.
19:26:44 <clokep> There was a bit of context before that too about how changes that break c-c should be handled http://pastebin.instantbird.com/152026
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19:28:14 <Mic> clokep: thanks! I only have firebot messages between my joining and this statement.
19:30:21 <flo-retina> ok, so no real plan :)
19:30:39 <clokep> Doesn't sound like it. :)
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19:32:18 <Mic> dew: how? A Jedi mind-trick, maybe: "You don't want to use Chatzilla. You want to go home and rethink your IM usage" ?;)
19:32:46 <dew> yes I will plug instantbird every chance I get :)
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20:14:25 <clokep> Just got this email to the list. :-S http://pastebin.instantbird.com/152056
20:21:53 <Mic> What so bad about this?
20:22:14 <Mic> That we have incomplete translations? Or that someone tries to make some money by offering his help?
20:22:38 <EionRobb> Free Software is not about making money ;)
20:27:43 <clokep> Mic: That he's asking to get paid.
20:29:56 <Mic> Not a problem at all in my opinion. The answer's just "sorry, we're not interested".
20:30:21 <clokep> Mic: Yes, it just annoys me when people do stuff like that.
20:30:56 <Mic> Maybe there *are* some projects that are willing to offer money for a translation because they really want it or need it. They might be happy to have one for the job.
20:31:25 <clokep> I think they'd be offering it then.
20:32:38 <Mic> It's nothing more than an offer (unsolicited application if you like) imo. Nothing wrong with that. One more mail for the spam-folder in the worst case.
20:33:30 <EionRobb> I'm offering my services to translate everything to en-NZ for the discounted rate of 1 sheep per hour... even if it's just taking all existing phrases and ending them with the word "bro" or "az"
20:34:06 <Mic> EionRobb: sorry, we're not interested.
20:34:12 <clokep> Mic: I find it rude to make the unsolicited offer.
20:36:40 <Mic> Yes, I've noticed. I don't exactly agree but I understand that you find it rude when someone wants to charge for working for a project that you invest a lot of your time in for free.
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21:26:03 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from aleth@instantbird.o rg for attachment 2253 on bug 1038.
21:26:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1038 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add followed people to the participants timeline
21:29:24 * clokep just found a weird bug.
21:42:13 <instantbot> New Core - Twitter bug 1886 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
21:42:14 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from aleth@instantbird.o rg for attachment 2254 on bug 1886.
21:42:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1886 tri, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, The topic of a Twitter timeline disappears if you close the conversation
22:21:55 <flo-retina> clokep: I find that email surprising. If I was offering my help as a professional translator, I would do my best for my email to look professional. If the English looks poor for someone who's supposed to be a translator, that sounds like an issue ;).
22:22:44 <flo-retina> + the rate seems very low (not sure, I'll check tomorrow with a professional translator who works in my coworking space what the normal rates are
22:23:38 <flo-retina> and as to whether the email is rude or not. I don't think he's being rude. Just clueless (if he had googled around, he would have found the documentation about our translation process).
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22:48:29 <clokep> flo: So the issue I have w/ iterating over it once...is wouldn't we really need to iterate over it a bunch of times and involve a lot of slices/splices?
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23:17:39 <Mic> Good night
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