#instantbird log on 10 31 2012

All times are UTC.

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00:21:17 * clokep finally got his test running...
00:22:01 <clokep> Oh wait...now I have to actually write the test cases? :P That's no fun!
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00:57:00 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 2024 on bug 1712.
00:57:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Send long IRC messages in several parts
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01:23:04 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/110a690ad94a - aleth - Bug 1747 - _originalMsg property not set on message following unread ruler when rejoining bubbles, r=fqueze.
01:23:05 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9699eed2d58d - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1733 - Remove purpleStorage, r=fqueze.
01:24:33 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1733 to FIXED.
01:24:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1733 min, --, 1.3, clokep, RESO FIXED, Remove purpleStorage
01:25:03 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1747 to FIXED.
01:25:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1747 nor, --, 1.3, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, _originalMsg property not set on message following unread ruler when rejoining bubbles
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01:42:37 <instant-buildbot> build #337 of linux-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-onCommit/builds/337
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03:28:24 <instant-buildbot> build #325 of win32-onCommit is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-onCommit/builds/325
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03:33:32 <instant-buildbot> build #671 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/671
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04:31:14 <instant-buildbot> build #307 of macosx-onCommit is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-onCommit/builds/307  blamelist: aleth <aletheia2@fastmail.fm>, Patrick Cloke <clokep@gmail.com>
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05:34:51 <instant-buildbot> build #759 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Failure [failed shell_3]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/759
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10:20:17 <clokep> Looks like the drive is out of space for nightlies? :_/
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10:53:13 <flo> it's sad that it happens on this day :-S
10:57:25 <clokep> I agree. :-/
10:57:34 <clokep> This happened last year too.
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10:58:50 <clokep> (I think.)
10:59:12 <clokep> Also, whenever builds fail and I touched C++ code, I immediately assume it was my fault. :-D
10:59:14 <instantbot> c++ is e-- ah, nevermind.
10:59:23 <clokep> Glad this wasn't!
11:04:20 <flo> the mac oncommit failure is strange (but doesn't matter)
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12:06:42 * flo-retina is now known as florian1
12:12:18 * clokep_work wonders what that email on the list entitled "Query" is...
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12:14:24 <florian1> clokep_work: I bet it's someone wanting to pay us for bundling crapware in the Windows installer
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12:17:48 <florian1> or maybe it's just ads displayed during the download and on the installer
12:18:03 <florian1> but I can still feel that what they have to offer is something we wouldn't want
12:19:50 <clokep_work> florian1: Ah, I didn't even think of those. But probably. :)
12:20:10 <florian1> she works for "betterinstaller.com" ;)
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12:36:26 * clokep_work marks as spam.
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13:01:28 <Mic> flo, you're no showing the founder-icon for me at the moment while I'm sure I saw it today already. Did you do something 'special' or do we have a bug somewhere maybe?
13:01:37 <Mic> *not
13:04:37 <clokep_work> Mic: It only shows if flo joins after you.
13:04:45 * clokep_work sees it on florian1 but not on flo right now.
13:04:54 * clokep_work just pings eveyrone in the channel. ;)
13:05:38 <florian1> Mic: what clokep_work said:)
13:06:09 <florian1> Is anybody working on the "Use of Mutation Events is deprecated. Use MutationObserver instead." warnings? They are noisy.
13:06:22 <Mic> ... sounds like an 'interesting' behaviour ;)
13:07:12 <clokep_work> Mic: So when a new user joins, they join and then we get a mode message telling us what modes they have (i.e. +oq for fl o).
13:07:32 <clokep_work> Mic: But when /we/ join a room, their mode is sent to use a prefix (e.g. @fl o).
13:07:39 <clokep_work> @ = +o
13:08:36 <Mic> OK, so there's incomplete information when we join...
13:08:44 <Mic> ... is there something we can do about that?
13:09:56 <clokep_work> There's an extension called NAMESX which will send "all" user modes when someone joins.
13:09:59 <clokep_work> I'm unsure if that includes founder.
13:10:14 <clokep_work> We have no bug about it though if you want to file one.
13:10:34 <Mic> OK, I'll file one.
13:12:07 <clokep_work> Thanks. :)
13:12:16 * clokep_work goes to look up documentation...
13:18:27 <clokep_work> http://wiki.inspircd.org/Modules/2.1/namesx for the interested...
13:20:44 * clokep_work thinks this is like an 15 line change btw.
13:25:27 <instantbot> New Core - IRC bug 1748 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
13:25:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1748 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add NAMESX support (to get all user modes of someone instead of just one)
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13:31:38 <clokep_work> Thanks Mic.
13:35:33 <florian1> clokep_work: do we know if moznet/freenode support NAMESX?
13:35:50 <clokep_work> florian1: Both do.
13:35:52 <clokep_work> IIRC.
13:35:56 <florian1> cool :)
13:38:01 <clokep_work> Yup. Freenode's requires CAP to be supported first though.
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13:38:06 <clokep_work> They send it as "multi-prefix" instead of NAMESX.
13:42:19 <clokep_work> Someone want to do me a favor and ping irc.atheme.org?
13:45:01 <Mic> "Couldn't find host"
13:46:00 <florian1> same here ("ping: cannot resolve irc.atheme.org: Unknown host")
13:46:51 <clokep_work> OK, not just my ISP then.
13:46:53 <clokep_work> THanks. :)
13:57:19 <clokep_work> florian1: Just saw a nice NSS error message abou ta cert. :)
13:57:42 <florian1> is "nice" ironical?
13:57:48 <florian1> it's rarely pleasing to have a cert error
13:58:31 <clokep_work> florian1: It was nice instead of just "Can't connect". :-D Told me that the cert was out of date.
14:03:38 <florian1> :)
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14:45:21 <florian1> I'm wondering how much of chat/ I could reuse for a Social API provider adding XMPP support to Firefox.
14:46:10 <florian1> I'm a bit worried that the way we handle contacts may be way too complicated. And the blist.sqlite with synchronous SQL queries really sucks :-/.
14:48:18 <florian1> I don't think supporting MUCs in the small floating Social API chat windows makes sense, so there's probably not much value in supporting IRC.
14:48:32 <florian1> I'm not sure if I care about multi-account support or not.
14:48:40 <florian1> if I don't, our handling of accounts is probably overkill too.
14:50:46 <florian1> I wonder how much JS-XMPP relies on the APIs implemented by imContacts.js
14:53:40 <florian1> I'm not volunteering to do that right now (nor soon), but how would you all feel about getting rid of blist.sqlite, and rewriting (parts of) imContacts.js to use an asynchronously written JSON cache file instead?
14:57:11 <florian1> (it's probably at least the third time that I think our chat/ core would be in a better shape after that change)
14:58:31 <clokep_work> florian1: So using a JS object as a database, essentially?
14:58:52 <florian1> maybe one JS object for each table we currently have in SQLite
14:59:08 <florian1> like one JS object for tags, one for accounts, one for contacts, ...
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14:59:26 <clokep_work> Hmm....I wouldn't be opposed to that, as long as we can easily and quickly do the queries we currently do.
14:59:40 <clokep_work> "10:48:32 AM - florian1: I'm not sure if I care about multi-account support or not." I'm not sure what is meant by this.
14:59:53 <florian1> clokep_work: I think it would be faster, as everything would always be in memory.
15:00:02 <florian1> so no disk I/O penalty
15:00:13 <clokep_work> Ah, I guess I wasn't thinking we did disk I/O every time.
15:00:44 <florian1> clokep_work: I'm looking at building a demo Social API provider implementing XMPP (and then will try to add jingle support there for voice & video in JS-XMPP).
15:01:01 <florian1> clokep_work: and I'm not sure if I care about the user being able to configure & connect several XMPP accounts at once.
15:01:30 <florian1> clokep_work: we usually don't do it every time. But there are a few corner cases that still require disk I/O (and that were frowned upon by Tb reviewers ;))
15:01:54 <clokep_work> florian1: Ah, I see...is the overhead of supporting multiple accounts that unreasonable?
15:02:02 <clokep_work> Doesn't the core mostly handle that without changes?
15:02:06 <clokep_work> I don't see how it would be in your way, I guess.
15:02:20 <florian1> I need an account manager UI
15:02:38 <florian1> (which can obviously be copied from Instantbird if I don't mind having dialogs)
15:02:55 <florian1> (that's what I did for my "Presence in Firefox" experiment a few months ago)
15:02:59 <clokep_work> (Or you can copy from IB, remove the awful dialogs and upstream it? :P)
15:03:16 <florian1> I'm more or less trying to do the same thing again, but with the UI integrated into social API, and then to use it as a base for WebRTC experiments
15:03:28 <clokep_work> If it is easier to just allow multiple accounts because of code re-use...seems like you should just go w/ it.
15:03:52 <florian1> I'm now considering taking the whole blist.xul/js (almost) as is :-D
15:04:07 <florian1> I couldn't for the previous experiment because I was supposed to display the list of "interesting" contacts in a popup
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15:04:16 <florian1> but now I have the whole Social API sidebar...
15:04:42 <clokep_work> Do it. :)
15:04:58 <florian1> that will look so much like "Instantbird in Social API" :-P
15:05:12 <florian1> except it would only support XMPP without MUCs
15:05:26 * clokep_work thinks Mic asked about this once http://ircv3.atheme.org/extensions/account-notify-3.1
15:06:30 <florian1> seems interesting :)
15:06:42 <florian1> (as long as I'm not the one supposed to implement support for it :-P)
15:09:40 <clokep_work> Of course not. That will end up being me. :P
15:10:04 <clokep_work> florian1: So I'm not sure exactly what you're going for, but it seems to me that if you can get multiple XMPP accounts for free, I don't see the "bad" part of that.
15:10:30 <florian1> confusing UX
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15:16:11 * clokep_work thinks people need to get smarter. :P
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15:16:31 <florian1> clokep_work: right, they really need to learn to use IRC in telnet
15:16:35 <florian1> ;)
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15:17:15 <clokep_work> florian1: Not what I was suggesting. :P But having multiple accounts doesn't seem too strenuous...
15:23:15 <clokep_work> But besides UI stuff (which is instantbird/ not chat/), I'd hope you could reuse all of chat/...
15:25:42 * clokep_work is being told that generally the extensions in RFC 2812 are a "bad idea"... (o_O)
15:26:44 <florian1> clokep_work: I hope that the parts that can't be reused as is can be fixed so that they can be shared anyway.
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15:30:02 <clokep_work> :)
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15:44:11 <clokep_work> Is it worth bumping Instantbird to the Firefox 16.0.2 release tag?
15:59:18 <florian1> why not?
16:00:00 <clokep_work> Someone needs to write the patch. ;)
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16:26:01 <Mic> clokep_work: do you prefer one of the checks regarding containsNick/isMentioned-check in bug 1728?
16:26:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1728 enh, --, ---, benediktp, NEW, Show mentions of tracked keywords in own conversations
16:29:26 <clokep_work> Mic: So Twitter actually tells us if we're mentioned in the user_mentions entities, correct? Seems to make sense to use that one.
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16:37:14 <Mic> clokep_work: what does the prpl-specific loglevel pref name look like again?
16:37:28 <Mic> I thought is were purple.debug.loglevel.twitter but it didn't seem to work :(
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16:43:09 <Mic> Works now.
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17:32:46 <aleth> bad luck - no special nightly :-/
17:33:12 <florian1> ah, I need to fix that today!
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17:58:32 <clokep_work> Mic: Did you hae to restart?
17:58:59 <Mic> Sorry, I don't understand?
17:59:29 <clokep_work> 12:37:29 PM - Mic: I thought is were purple.debug.loglevel.twitter but it didn't seem to work :( / 12:43:10 PM - Mic: Works now.
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18:00:40 <Mic> I don't remember but it can well be that I did.
18:00:46 <clokep_work> Ah OK.
18:00:48 <clokep_work> Was just curious. :)
18:01:39 <Mook_as> hmm, it's _supposed_ to have a pref observer...
18:06:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1749 filed by spangler.robert@gmail.com.
18:06:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1749 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Accessibility broken with screen reading software used by the blind
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18:16:37 <clokep_work> florian1: Doh, I knew I had another point on that bug...
18:17:22 <florian1> your reply was nicer than mine (I basically just thought "this is nonsense" when reading that comment, and had to wait a few seconds before replying to him :))
18:17:45 <clokep_work> Mic: That patch looks pretty good. :)
18:17:49 <clokep_work> I think I have a couple of nits, but besides that....
18:18:04 <clokep_work> It'd be nice if the search API returned what keywords were found in it, eh? :(
18:19:01 <clokep_work> Do you want those as an r- or is there more you want to do?
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18:46:49 * aleth is surprised by the problems described in that screen reader bug
18:47:05 <aleth> Those seem like they would be issues with standard XUL controls
18:50:17 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 2025 on bug 1728.
18:50:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1728 enh, --, ---, benediktp, NEW, Show mentions of tracked keywords in own conversations
18:50:19 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes...
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18:52:01 <aleth> clokep_work: Should "Show each tracked keyword..." be "Show results for each tracked keyword..." for clarity, or is it obvious enough?
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18:55:17 <clokep_work> aleth: That's getting pretty long then...
18:55:31 <aleth> Yes :-/
18:56:57 <aleth> The word 'tracked' could be dropped in both cases.
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19:00:14 <aleth> Whoa, that throwing-all-jsm's-together patch is pretty drastic... Does not affect FF (or us) at all though right?
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19:01:05 * Mic should fix his editor :S
19:01:46 <Mic> The "." mentioned in your feedback are perfectly aligned there but the column count is different. Maybe using a different font could fix that ...
19:02:14 <aleth> Mic: You use a proportional font for editing code? o_O
19:04:03 <Mic> No, but it seems that the bold font that it uses for keywork isn't handled nicely.
19:04:08 <Mic> +keywords
19:05:43 <aleth> That's unfortunate :(
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19:06:46 <clokep_work> Mic: Ah, yeah. bold fonts aren't good in editing... What editor do you use?
19:06:55 * clokep_work thinks Mook_as could suggest one... ;)
19:07:32 <Mic> Notepad2
19:08:59 <clokep_work> Ah, I see.
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19:10:53 <Mook_as> if I'm finding the right project, that looks scintilla-based as well
19:12:07 <Mook_as> also, what's with you and using software written by people named Florian? :p
19:13:32 <Mic> Mook_as: sounds like the right one
19:13:56 <clokep_work> I had used Notepad2 at some point, I found it...'s lack of faith disturbing?
19:14:10 <clokep_work> (Totally off topic, but Disney bought Lucasfilm, not sure if I should laugh or die.)
19:14:22 <Mook_as> die laughing.
19:15:20 <clokep_work> (And Episode 7 in 2015.)
19:15:54 <aleth> Star Wars is a bit of a zombie at this point.
19:16:50 <aleth> Though they could probably do a 'reboot' and start over :P
19:17:46 <Mic> aleth: sure, just hand it over to J.J. Abrams and this will happen on its own :P
19:18:14 <Mic> He's got lots of experience, he successfully *$%&$%& up Star Trek already ;)
19:21:02 <clokep_work> Mic: Don't worry about inlining it if it look sugly.
19:21:05 <clokep_work> looks ugly.
19:21:07 <clokep_work> Just asking. :)
19:24:17 <Mic> bye
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21:38:38 <florian1> I can't find the 2008 nightlies
21:38:50 <florian1> anybody remember where I put them the last time we were out of disk space?
21:39:01 <florian1> (I would like to put the 2009 nightlies with them...)
21:41:59 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm denied review for attachment 2021 on bug 1573.
21:42:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1573 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Support SASL for IRC
21:44:10 <flo> ahah "2012-07-30.110423+0200.json:89:{"date":"2012-07-30T16:40:08.000Z","who":"flo","text":"I moved the 2008 nightlies too http://queze.net/goinfre/ftp.instantbird.org/nightly/2008/","flags":["outgoing"]}"
21:44:14 <flo> what a stupid place
21:46:26 <florian1> the even more stupid thing is that I've only got 12GB available there
21:47:57 <florian1> the 2009 folder weights 34GB
21:49:52 <aleth> Do those years even have to be online anymore?
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21:58:07 <florian1> aleth: maybe not really. But I dislike when things that have been online disappear for no reason.
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22:01:11 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
22:01:47 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(benediktp@ymail.com ) for attachment 2022 on bug 1746.
22:01:48 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from benediktp@ymail.com  for attachment 2026 on bug 1746.
22:01:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1746 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Recent shortcut change eschews cursor shortcuts to moves tabs instead
22:04:26 <flo> the server hosting AIO has 1.6TB available. I'm moving the 2009 folder to that server's disk (even though it won't be available via http there)
22:05:11 <Mook_as> it'll just be an odd addon ;)
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22:50:31 <clokep> florian1: You going to move the 2008 ones there too? :P
22:50:45 <flo> clokep: do you mean you want me to put them offline?
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22:51:10 <clokep> I figured it'd make more sense to have them altogether...so next time we have this conversation we don't need to find them both! :-D
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22:52:02 <flo> the new mac builder will have 2TB of disk, so I hope I can put all the nightlies there, rsync'ed automatically, and host archive.instantbird.org or something like that on it
22:52:18 <clokep> :)
22:52:38 <flo> I wanted to do that with the current Mac builder at the time it had a good connection
22:53:10 <flo> but now it's at my parents', so the connection sucks and it takes forever to upload the builds, so I don't want to add webservices there (+ it's not even running the whole day)
22:53:34 * flo wonders if the old mac builder should go on ebay
22:53:51 <clokep> Let's get the new one working first?
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22:54:52 <clokep> aleth: "I know IRC nicks can't be unicode, are you sure about passwords?" I doubt that's true. :)
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22:56:39 <clokep> (But your point is well taken, it needs to handle Unicode.)
22:57:46 <aleth> What, you can have unicode in nicks and #ubuntu is not full of strange characters? I'm amazed ;)
22:58:34 <flo> clokep: "Let's get the new one working first?" of course. And probably even a release from the new one. (as we would still need the old builder if we somehow need to rush out an 1.3.1 compatible with PPC)
22:59:00 <aleth> clokep: So it's not forbidden everywhere, it's a server by server thing?
22:59:06 <clokep> aleth: I think so.
22:59:13 <clokep> Passwords can have it, I'm sure.
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22:59:56 <aleth> clokep: It would make sense for nicks, but IRC is odd sometimes.
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23:00:06 <flo> putting accentuated characters, quotes, backslashes and that kind of 'special' characters in passwords is usually a bad idea. :)
23:00:44 <clokep> backslashes ftw!
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23:00:50 <clokep> I've certainly broken accounts before by using quotes. :(
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23:01:15 <clokep> aleth: Yeah. I'm not sure. I'll probably give you a new patch tonight though, thanks for the feedback. :)
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