#instantbird log on 07 20 2012

All times are UTC.

00:11:20 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout)
00:23:35 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error)
00:53:39 <-- wesj has quit (Input/output error)
00:58:08 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:58:08 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
00:58:48 <clokep> aleth: I noticed that for the first time the other day.
00:58:50 <clokep> Kind of strange, I agree.
01:25:37 <-- SM0TVI has quit (Quit: I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. -- Thomas Paine (*1737 †1809))
01:31:59 --> SM0TVI has joined #instantbird
01:44:57 --> wesj has joined #instantbird
01:53:41 --> Even has joined #instantbird
01:53:41 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
02:28:21 <-- wesj has quit (Ping timeout)
02:35:52 --> wesj has joined #instantbird
02:50:27 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
03:11:54 <instant-buildbot> build #562 of linux-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/linux-nightly-default/builds/562
03:43:57 <-- wesj has quit (Ping timeout)
05:09:18 --> wesj has joined #instantbird
05:13:35 <instant-buildbot> build #650 of win32-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/win32-nightly-default/builds/650
05:38:39 <-- wesj has quit (Ping timeout)
06:06:26 <instant-buildbot> build #555 of macosx-nightly-default is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.instantbird.org/builders/macosx-nightly-default/builds/555
06:06:30 --> FeuerFliege has joined #instantbird
06:09:44 <-- piousminion has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
06:13:13 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
06:31:53 <-- Suiseiseki has quit (Quit: Leaving)
06:33:00 --> Suiseiseki has joined #instantbird
06:37:06 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
06:40:15 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
06:42:02 <-- meh has quit (Quit: I don't want to live on this planet anymore.)
07:31:35 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
07:37:56 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird
07:53:13 --> Lalae has joined #instantbird
08:27:51 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
08:27:52 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
09:29:49 <-- Lalae has left #instantbird ()
09:30:22 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird
09:37:50 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:37:50 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
09:37:57 <-- Mic has quit (Connection reset by peer)
09:38:14 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
09:38:14 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
09:40:42 <Mic> The Twitter icon has the same color as the background of selected items in the account manager. :(
09:43:30 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1599 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
09:43:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1599 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Bird on the Twitter icon has the same color as selected items in the account manager
09:45:15 <aleth> It's also vertically off-center in the contact list, or am I imagining things?
09:51:00 --> flo has joined #instantbird
09:51:00 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
09:56:46 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir)
09:56:59 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
09:56:59 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
10:00:26 --> Bollebib has joined #instantbird
10:01:53 <FeuerFliege> Mic: it is not exactly the “same color” :)
10:02:52 <FeuerFliege> aleth: I don’t think so.
10:03:26 <FeuerFliege> aleth: I finally noticed what I did when miss the unread ruler
10:09:20 <FeuerFliege> Sometimes I sequently open multiple tabs from the contact window to read the missed conversation. Each tab is focused for a short time and the unread ruler disappears as I open the next one.
10:09:47 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Does that still happen to you with a recent nightly?
10:10:27 <FeuerFliege> yes, I think I have the recent nightly
10:11:30 <aleth> It should no longer happen unless you take longer than a second between opening tabs
10:11:43 <aleth> But maybe something is different when restoring from hold...
10:12:55 <FeuerFliege> I am pretty sure, that I don’t wait a full second before opening the next conversation :)
10:13:44 <FeuerFliege> When is the 1 second delay checked in?
10:16:57 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
10:16:57 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
10:18:01 * FeuerFliege grumble
10:18:47 <FeuerFliege> aleth: I just checked, unread rules is still there :( So I have to search for the reason why sometimes the unread ruler is missing.
10:19:22 <FeuerFliege> *to continue to search
10:21:01 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
10:24:38 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
10:30:58 <FeuerFliege> aleth: Is it possible that the period a tab needs to be loaded interferes somehow with the timer? I waited and reopend 6 conversations form hold and only 3 of them had the unread ruler. 
10:37:28 <aleth> FeuerFliege: It's possible there is some edge case when opening from hold, I'll have to investigate the code. Thanks for letting me know!
10:43:43 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
10:52:27 <-- clokep has quit (Input/output error)
11:04:10 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout)
11:08:08 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird
11:09:13 <aleth> FeuerFliege: I'm having trouble reproducing this. Do you know if there was anything special about the restored conversations where the unread ruler didn't appear? e.g. where they particularly long?
11:10:03 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
11:12:56 <FeuerFliege> aleth: I cannot reproduce it every time either. This time 6 convs restored 6 unread rulers.
11:22:55 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Maybe the unread ruler is always there, but sometimes you have to scroll down rather than up to get to it, because of bug 1530 ?
11:22:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1530 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Autoscroll subtly broken after moz13 update
11:25:37 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird
11:29:38 <FeuerFliege> aleth: I cannot reproduce bug 1530.
11:29:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1530 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Autoscroll subtly broken after moz13 update
11:29:53 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Lucky you ;)
11:40:26 --> meh has joined #instantbird
11:41:53 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird
11:41:53 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep_work 
11:50:22 <-- skeledrew has quit (Connection reset by peer)
11:50:25 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
11:53:37 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
11:58:53 <clokep_work> "[Bug 760802] JavaScript easy access to native window handle" is ready for check-in on m-c. Could be handy with c-types. :)
12:05:10 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
12:12:31 <flo> unconfirmed but with an r+ed patch :-S
12:14:26 <flo> ready for check-in but with a wrong indentation in widget/nsIBaseWindow.idl :-S
12:15:55 <flo> and in embedding/browser/webBrowser/nsWebBrowser.cpp
12:17:24 <clokep_work> Drive by review? ;)
12:17:46 <flo> hmm, maybe, I'm not sure I'll comment that in the bug
12:18:05 <flo> probably not; enough real review requests :-S
12:18:25 <flo> but feel free to do it if you care about these files ^^
12:25:43 <clokep_work> I don't care, but it takes 2 minutes so I should do it...
12:30:29 * flo frowns at bug 1597
12:30:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1597 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to invite people to chats in MSN
12:32:05 <clokep_work> Yes. :-/ I'm afraid I'm just getting annoyed by the poorly put together sentences.
12:32:21 <clokep_work> But I think it's a language barrier. :-(
12:33:40 <flo> I don't think the language barrier is a good enough excuse to do worse than what a google translate would do though
12:34:19 <aleth> It just seems mostly off-topic
12:34:44 <flo> right, but I think it's a reply to clokep telling him earlier to come discuss his problem in #instantbird
12:34:47 <clokep_work> He's trying to figure out how to get into #instantbird now.
12:35:00 <aleth> yes, confused but good-natured ;)
12:35:30 --> jb has joined #instantbird
12:36:37 <clokep_work> aleth: Do you have the "KILL" option set to true?
12:36:43 <clokep_work> (Sorry no context there.)
12:36:48 <clokep_work> This is on NickServ.
12:37:10 <aleth> clokep_work: It does seem like a language barrier thing, in particular the 'Regards' is probably something he was taught at school :P
12:37:54 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_
12:37:59 * clokep_ is now known as clokep
12:38:15 <aleth> clokep: I don't think so... are there any aliases for that option?
12:39:05 <clokep> aleth: I don't know.
12:40:29 <aleth> Well, I just turned it on.
12:41:07 <aleth> Not sure if it was set before. Doesn't it simply kick people who don't identify?
12:41:48 <clokep> aleth: http://anope.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=anope/anope;a=blob;f=lang/en_us.l;h=018b004b081eed4bab6a2b2297ebf82b15fda49a;hb=HEAD#l329
12:42:18 <aleth> Ah :)
12:43:24 <aleth> KILL == ENFORCE protects your nick even while you are not online
12:43:54 <clokep> No, that's not necessarily true.
12:44:13 <aleth> According to http://docs.dal.net/docs/nickserv.html
12:44:40 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
12:44:56 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
12:45:18 <clokep> aleth: I'm pretty sure DALNet has custom services.
12:45:19 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
12:47:01 <clokep> If you have KILL off a user's nick won't be forcibly changed ever. Even if they don't identify.
12:47:34 <aleth> Hmm, that's not a good default.
12:49:09 <clokep> SECURE has to do with if you use the "access list" which is hostname masks auto-identifying.
12:49:23 <aleth> Yes, I have that set.
12:49:52 <clokep> (FYI http://www.anope.org/docgen/1.8/en_us/NickServ.html is helpful. :))
12:49:54 <clokep> OK!
12:51:04 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
12:51:04 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird
12:52:38 --> jb has joined #instantbird
12:54:21 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
12:54:49 --> jb has joined #instantbird
12:56:21 <clokep> Easy enough to add that string though. :)
12:57:39 <aleth> nice when edge cases turn out to be straightforward :)
13:02:56 <-- Bollebib has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
13:04:08 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
13:04:09 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
13:04:39 <clokep> Yes, although it's not really an edge case. More of a missing 50% of a supported feature case. ;)
13:10:34 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
13:11:54 * clokep is now known as clokep_work
13:12:59 <-- sonny has quit (Ping timeout)
13:19:14 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
13:23:10 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
13:23:15 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
13:24:06 --> testtb has joined #instantbird
13:26:37 <-- testtb has quit (Quit: testtb)
13:30:22 <Mic> Hello
13:33:45 <clokep_work> Hello!
13:33:55 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
13:34:00 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
13:34:29 <flo> am I the only one who still sees bug 1210?
13:34:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210 nor, --, 1.2, florian, REOP, Status stuck on away/unavailable
13:34:49 <clokep_work> I haven't seen it in a long time.
13:34:51 <flo> or am I just the only one talking to himself everyday?
13:34:54 <clokep_work> I think myk also saw it though?
13:35:09 <clokep_work> I know when it happens (from Status Reminder).
13:37:16 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
13:38:23 <Mic> I'm certain that I have seen this too, not recently, though.
13:38:35 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
13:39:52 <flo> clokep_work: status reminder doesn't show it
13:40:16 <flo> clokep_work: I'm displayed as "Available" at the top of the contacts window, but Thunderbird sees me as idle.
13:40:44 <clokep_work> flo: Oh. I'm not sure then. (Although I have myself on my buddy list, so I generally know...)
13:57:16 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout)
14:04:36 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
14:05:06 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
14:05:07 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
14:05:27 <-- jb has quit (Quit: jb)
14:05:49 <Mic> Could it be that the wallops-patch never landed?
14:05:56 <Mic> I'm seeing it here in the completion list.
14:06:15 <flo> isn't it changing strings?
14:06:24 <flo> right, it is. It's for 1.3
14:06:33 <Mic> Yes, I see
14:06:39 <Mic> Bug 1561 btw
14:06:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1561 tri, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Remove libpurple's pretentious /wallops help message
14:06:50 <clokep_work> Yes, it hasn't landed yet.
14:06:54 <clokep_work> It's on the 1.3 train.
14:07:10 <Mic> Has anything but the "/j" command been removed since 1.1?
14:07:40 <Mic> If not, I'll leave the whole "What's been removed"-section out of the release notes.
14:08:35 <flo> support for Windows before XP SP2 has been removed, right?
14:08:49 --> jb has joined #instantbird
14:09:58 <Mic> That seems noteworthy. I think XP still has a market share > 40%.
14:10:53 <flo> XP SP2 and SP3 are supported ;)
14:14:50 <Mic> That was because of platform changes, wasn't it?
14:20:21 <flo> that's because we use MSVC2010 instead of 2005 to build
14:20:39 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
14:21:01 * Mic looked up data for OS market shares. I hope Mark Shuttleworth never does. Could be cause of a severe depression...
14:21:21 <flo> hasn't ubuntu made some progress over the past 10 years? :)
14:23:01 --> jb has joined #instantbird
14:23:51 <dew> enough to get Valve to port Steam and L4D2 to it
14:23:56 <Mic> Let's say... judging from the numbers, Ubuntu shouldn't have a Wikipedia entry.
14:24:30 <Mic> Well, that's for desktops, at least.
14:24:33 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
14:25:25 <clokep_work> Linux users are very vocal though so the voice outweighs the actual usage share.
14:26:06 <flo> Mic: needing a wikipedia entry may be more related to how many people want to find out more about it; rather than how many users there are
14:27:20 <clokep_work> Bleh that suggestion on tb-planning to like integrate w/ current IM clients is just crazy talk.
14:28:20 <aleth> clokep_work: I think it's because a higher percentage of Linux users are more than casual computer users in one way or another
14:28:50 <flo> clokep_work: I was reading the exact same thing at the same moment
14:28:51 <Mic> flo, I rather meant: too few users, specialist OS -> remove article, reason: not notable ;)
14:29:06 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, I assume the same. I wasn't looking for an explanation of why, I understand that.
14:29:23 <flo> Mic: you still haven't accepted the removal of instantbird's previous article? ;)
14:29:36 <flo> clokep_work: I'm not sure what to reply to that
14:29:53 <clokep_work> Perhaps "What are you smoking?"?
14:30:00 <Mic> flo: sorry, I don't understand.
14:30:00 <flo> clokep_work: I especially dislike that sentence "Why reinvent the wheel? It would make more sense to spend a lot less dev hours on just figuring out a way to 'integrate'"
14:30:10 <aleth> bizarre
14:31:10 <clokep_work> I don't know either. But if you're responding I'm not going to. :P
14:31:45 <flo> I'm having a hard time finding something non-aggressive to reply to that.
14:33:06 <Mic> What about a sock puppet? :P
14:33:28 <flo> :)
14:43:47 <flo> replied
14:45:00 <clokep_work> Bah I'm like 3/4 of the way through a reply. :P
14:45:20 <flo> go ahead! :)
14:45:36 <clokep_work> I'm moderated on that list unfortunately. :( I assume you are too.
14:47:43 <flo> I think I still am, yes :)
14:48:17 <flo> and my manager is the moderator :-O
14:49:07 <flo> "Your message to tb-planning awaits moderator approval"
14:51:57 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird
14:56:11 <clokep_work> Hah. :) I replied too.
14:56:15 <clokep_work> Hopefully it makes sense.
15:02:35 <flo> I'm a bit confused by "it should probably also run in a stand-alone window? I am sure this is technically possible without showing the main Tb UI and without installing a separate executable - would it be hard to pull off?", but can I reply "Get instantbird!" :)
15:02:36 <flo> ?
15:02:37 <clokep_work> Bah requesting a standalone version...
15:03:06 <clokep_work> I think it's reasonable to...otherwise you /would/ be reinventing the wheel. ;)
15:07:24 <aleth> Definitely reasonable. If it's in a separate window it's essentially a separate app already.
15:08:21 <flo> ooooh, from "Firefox for Windows 8 Metro, status update 5", "We removed the XAML interop support because MS decided this was for Metro applications only and not Metro style enabled desktop browsers.  To do this we had to change some startup code, gfx code, and re-implement the appbar using XBL/XUL/JS. " \o/
15:08:28 <flo> thanks Microsoft :).
15:08:57 <flo> aleth: I'm not completely sure if he wants to detach the chat tab, or have a standalone IM client.
15:09:06 <aleth> What's the appbar?
15:10:12 <clokep_work> flo: Nice email, mine ranted a bit more.
15:10:23 <aleth> flo: I'm not sure how it differs if the point is "not to show the main TB UI"
15:10:25 <clokep_work> flo: I'm fairly certain it's talking about a separate IM client.
15:11:35 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
15:11:52 <flo> clokep_work: Skype offers exactly that kind of APIs ;)
15:12:09 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, but it's a pain to deal w/. :P
15:12:23 <clokep_work> (Does that mean my email was approved? I thought I get them back...)
15:14:23 <flo> clokep_work: "Support for initiating phone calls or IMs directly from an email" Tb can initiate an IM conversation from an email, you knew it, right? :)
15:15:55 <flo> btw, I'm not going to write the Get instantbird email to tb-planning
15:16:34 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, I didn't mean to imply it couldn't. Just the full set of features that are great to support in terms of email + IM + phone connectivity.
15:16:42 <clokep_work> I should have made that a different paragraph. :-/
15:17:00 <flo> we should support SIP for voice calling
15:17:54 <clokep_work> SIP would definitely be a good choice for uplift out of libpurple I think.
15:18:03 <aleth> I don't think its unreasonable to mention Instantbird given that it is closely related, interoperable, and on the mozilla platform too ;)
15:18:44 <flo> aleth: right. But not with my @mozilla.com address ;).
15:19:46 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
15:20:00 <aleth> Maybe not you personally... but I'm sure 'official' FF devs point people at Seamonkey if they ask for certain things...
15:20:08 --> wnayes has joined #instantbird
15:21:04 <flo> wnayes: hello. I see you noticed my comments in the etherpad yesterday :). I wanted to add that I'm sorry it took me so long to look at it :-/.
15:23:03 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
15:27:04 <-- aleth has quit (Input/output error)
15:27:16 <clokep_work> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/formResponse?formkey=dEdPY1hjc2JrYjFDOXExbFBlM25yemc6MQ&ptok=4669676208051456158&ifq is what I had been playing with for anyone interested...it's not done yet...but I'd like to put it out there eventually.
15:28:29 <PsyCoil> So how should I report a bug about RTL? With pictures?
15:28:29 <wnayes> flo: Hello :). That's alright, it's easier to change now that it will be in a few weeks, and it's an important thing to get right.
15:29:38 <clokep_work> PsyCoil: Yes, pictures help. You can attach them right to the bugs.
15:29:51 <Optimizer> how to ignore some nick ? 
15:29:54 <Optimizer> pls pls pls
15:31:32 <clokep_work> Optimizer: That's not supported.
15:31:43 <Optimizer> support it then
15:31:46 <Optimizer> pls pls pls
15:31:47 <clokep_work> (And I'm curious, do you mean nicks like in a channel or is someone actually IMing.)
15:31:59 <Optimizer> go to devtools, and see why it is needed
15:32:01 <Optimizer> #devtools
15:32:35 <clokep_work> Also statements like "support it then" will generally not be met kindly...most likely.
15:32:47 <Mic> Because I was asked, here's the updated release notes: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ib1-2-releasenotes-wip2
15:32:52 <Optimizer> if its easy i can help
15:33:23 <clokep_work> You were asked? Who asked you? :P
15:33:32 <Mic> FeuerFliege via pm
15:34:43 <clokep_work> Any reason it's in a different ehterpad? (o-O)
15:35:30 <Mic> I used an editor for the changes, not the etherpad. I know it sucks.
15:35:44 <clokep_work> Ah, fair enough. :)
15:35:47 <Mic> Not having the keyboard shortcuts you're used to sucks too ;)
15:35:53 <clokep_work> Optimizer: He's using a broken version of Pidgin is my guesss.
15:36:42 <flo> clokep_work: is it possible to have a summary without joining #devtools?
15:37:29 <clokep_work> flo: "Max SendQ exceeded" I think summarizes it nicely.
15:37:41 <clokep_work> (+ an infinite loop of joining and being booted)
15:37:47 <clokep_work> The server should have banned him by now IMO.
15:37:47 <flo> clokep_work: could be adium too
15:37:59 <clokep_work> Yes. Or a random nightly of Instantbird.
15:38:10 <clokep_work> There isn't enough time to do a /version...
15:38:12 <clokep_work> I tried. ;)
15:42:20 <-- sonny has quit (Ping timeout)
15:42:34 * flo answered clokep_work's survey
15:42:48 <clokep_work> flo: I was more interested in feedback than in having people answer it. :-D
15:43:50 <flo> I'm not sure if these are things you can change, but the 2 questions where one needs to choose "yes" or "no" and "yes" is selected by default are almost guaranteed to have a very large majority of yes answers
15:44:00 <flo> and the list of protocols seemed excessively long
15:44:19 <flo> what's the difference between monthly and rarely?
15:44:23 <clokep_work> Yes the list of protocols is excessively long...
15:44:44 <clokep_work> Rarely is "I know I've used this but not regularly"
15:44:50 <Optimizer> clokep_work: I am not using pidgin, if you meant that
15:44:57 <clokep_work> Optimizer: I did not mean that.
15:45:00 <Optimizer> ok did you mean reuben ? 
15:45:01 <clokep_work> I meant he is.
15:45:15 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, good point w/ the yes/no. I wonder if I can change that...
15:45:19 <flo> would we want to know: use it frequently | use it rarely | still have an account but don't use it (does that matter?) | know the name but never had an account | never heard of ?
15:47:16 <Optimizer> but ignore is very useful
15:47:36 <Optimizer> is there any open bug to support it ? 
15:47:48 <clokep_work> flo: I don't know exactly.
15:47:55 <Optimizer> i am trying to back instantbird on devtools, i will need ignore command for that :P
15:48:02 <clokep_work> Optimizer: I know there are bugs to ignore buddies. I don't know if there are to ignore certain people in chats.
15:48:27 <clokep_work> flo: It could probably be combined with "Never".
15:48:38 <FeuerFliege> Optimizer: bug 135
15:48:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Ignore/Block Buddy
15:49:09 <Optimizer> how hard it is, any ideas ? 
15:49:30 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
15:49:30 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
15:50:29 <clokep_work> flo: Thunderbird 15 will integrate chat?
15:50:39 <flo> it already does, doesn't it? :)
15:51:00 <FeuerFliege> flo: 14 is out, 15 is beta
15:51:16 <flo> FeuerFliege: I meant Tb 15 beta already does.
15:52:59 <FeuerFliege> flo: I don’t know if the Beta does. But Earlybird 15 did, so if the feature didn’t get disabled it should :)
15:53:27 <flo> FeuerFliege: you don't believe me when I say it does? :-D
15:55:00 <Mic> bye
15:55:24 <FeuerFliege> flo: Sry, I took the »,doesn’t it?« too literally :/
15:56:27 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
15:58:00 <aleth> still have an account but don't use it | know the name but never had an account | never heard of  == "don't care" ?
16:01:17 <flo> FeuerFliege: I think the "doesn't it?" means "is there anything making you think it doesn't?"
16:01:41 <flo> aleth: the last one was "could be confused by a mention of it"
16:05:15 <-- Tomek has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
16:05:32 <FeuerFliege> flo: I know, but I didn’t remembered fast enough :( Although there is an exact match for this phrase in German, but it’s not a direct translation.
16:09:59 --> wesj has joined #instantbird
16:13:55 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
16:18:53 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
16:19:23 <instantbot> New Core - General bug 1600 filed by r5r4yster@gmail.com.
16:19:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1600 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, RTL on the receiver side
16:20:41 <PsyCoil> Thanks bot. In any case, I hope it's understandable.
16:27:10 <-- jb has quit (Quit: jb)
16:35:02 --> jb has joined #instantbird
16:36:32 <-- jb has quit (Quit: jb)
16:36:54 --> jb has joined #instantbird
16:51:00 <PsyCoil> alerth: are you saying I should use HTML tags in my message? 
16:51:31 <aleth> No. I was merely trying to understand better what you were asking for, and starting to look around for how this kind of thing was usually implemented
16:52:15 <PsyCoil> When RTL character starts the message, and then there's LTR character, then the message still should be displayed LTR
16:52:21 <PsyCoil> Sorry
16:52:24 <PsyCoil> RTL*
16:54:16 <PsyCoil> Otheriwse, people on the reviver side won't be able to read my message, If I'm to use more english words in my RTL then all hell breaks loose.
16:54:37 <aleth> But your screenshot doesn't seem to show that
16:55:11 <aleth> (the second pair for example)
16:55:28 <aleth> Btw you can probably include examples as text directly in the comments.
16:55:34 <PsyCoil> I thought this is preety clear, let me add another one.
16:56:57 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
16:58:14 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1601 filed by bugi@media.fjmail.de.
16:58:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1601 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Middle-click should close conversations on hold
16:58:42 <aleth> Hmm, when I wrote "when a message starts with a RTL character", that's ambiguous
16:59:03 <PsyCoil> I can't add attachments in replies?
16:59:18 <aleth> You can click on "Add an attachment"
17:00:01 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: I had wanted to file that one recently. :)
17:00:33 <flo> apparently "So are there any good IM clients that are like maybe stable? Instantbird is good but doesn't seem to be able to handle many accounts without crashing" means "My sound driver crashes Instantbird when a contact signs on." :-S
17:01:46 <clokep_work> :(
17:01:58 <aleth> Sound drivers crashing IB are just ... :(
17:02:20 <flo> aleth: they are just "Welcome to Windows" ;)
17:02:30 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1602 filed by bugi@media.fjmail.de.
17:02:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1602 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Conversations on hold should be draggable
17:05:04 <aleth> MDN has no page for the HTML dir attribute :( Does that mean it's not supported?
17:05:19 <flo> no :
17:05:20 <flo> )
17:05:23 <PsyCoil> aleth: Okay, I added another attachment, second line is how the msg should be displayed in order for it to be readable and without one having to reverse the words in his head to understand what's it all about. 
17:05:42 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: the fix for 1601 shouldn’t be too hard, or what do you think? Maybe I could give it a try …
17:06:17 <aleth> FeuerFliege: Please do :)
17:06:41 <aleth> You just need to add or modify an event handler probably
17:07:10 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: It shouldn't be too difficult.
17:07:51 <FeuerFliege> ok, I will do my very best :)
17:08:13 <aleth> FeuerFliege: probably a good place to start looking http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conv.xml
17:08:25 * FeuerFliege must go, dinner won’t make itself.
17:08:28 <FeuerFliege> aleth: thy
17:08:29 <FeuerFliege> bye
17:08:37 <FeuerFliege> aleth: thx
17:08:40 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Input/output error)
17:09:40 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1602 to DUPLICATE of bug 1048.
17:09:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1602 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Conversations on hold should be draggable
17:09:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Drag and Drop Tabs to Hidden Conversations (… and vice versa)
17:12:52 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
17:15:05 <clokep_work> Mic I made a few changes to the release notes.
17:15:18 * clokep_work stays away from that RTL conversation.
17:15:46 --> jb has joined #instantbird
17:15:55 * aleth thinks that's going to be hard to fix for someone who doesn't actually speak a RTL language
17:22:18 <-- wnayes has quit (Ping timeout)
17:23:27 <clokep_work> Yes, probably. :-/
17:24:10 <aleth> Just figuring when a message is to be "RTL" won't be trivial...
17:25:35 --> wnayes has joined #instantbird
17:25:39 * clokep_work wonders if it would make more sense to just have textboxes that let you fill in what networks you IM on...
17:25:59 <clokep_work> (Also the list of networks in that survey shows how fragmented the IM market is btw.)
17:37:56 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
17:50:52 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird
17:55:51 <PsyCoil> Okay, dunno how useful the patch will be Instantbird, but It eventually made it into Adium: http://trac.adium.im/ticket/13612
17:56:01 <PsyCoil> RTL detection
18:01:28 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout)
18:01:49 <DGMurdockIII> RTL detection?
18:02:00 <DGMurdockIII> oh
18:02:10 <DGMurdockIII> i think it would be usfull
18:02:35 <DGMurdockIII> and to alow people that read that way to have it set that way by defult
18:02:35 <PsyCoil> Yes: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1600
18:02:41 <instantbot> Bug 1600 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, RTL on the receiver side
18:02:50 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
18:07:18 --> jb has joined #instantbird
18:13:30 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
18:24:34 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
18:25:47 --> Optimizer has joined #instantbird
18:30:28 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
18:30:28 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
19:14:08 <-- wnayes has quit (Ping timeout)
19:29:12 <aleth> more community-driven development? ;) http://sprw.me/
19:30:30 <clokep_work> Is that the gmail like desktop client?
19:31:24 <aleth> I don't know how gmail-like it was, but it was a popular OSX client
19:32:04 <aleth> I think it was meant to be simple above all
19:32:42 <clokep_work> Yeah it's the one I was thinking of.
19:32:48 <clokep_work> That supports Gmail labels and things like that.
19:33:21 <aleth> They forgot the gmail is the platform ;)
19:33:53 * aleth hides
19:36:09 <-- mmkmou has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
19:38:33 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir)
19:38:35 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
19:38:35 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
19:40:35 <-- clokep_work has quit (Ping timeout)
19:40:52 --> wnayes has joined #instantbird
19:47:00 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Au revoir)
19:47:05 --> aleth has joined #instantbird
19:47:05 * ChanServ sets mode +h aleth 
19:49:30 <aleth> PsyCoil: I can't r+ your Marten-Cute, I think you have to click submit for review again
19:51:33 <PsyCoil> Missed it
19:52:00 <PsyCoil> Here
19:52:14 <aleth> Done :)
19:53:34 <PsyCoil> What do you think about the adium patch? Any usefulness to it at all in Instantbird?
19:55:27 <aleth> Might be useful, thanks...
19:55:35 <Mic> flo, Even: is there a way to get emails when review of an add-on is requested?
19:55:52 <Mic> "Polling" sucks
19:55:55 <aleth> Mic++
19:56:54 <PsyCoil> Mhmm... okay, I hope someone would manage to pull this off.
19:57:55 <aleth> it's definitely wanted :)
20:00:21 <PsyCoil> It is. Meh... even Trillian doesn't have this feature. Funny how only open-source clients have it and I can count them all on one hand.
20:00:35 <meh> yes, it's a meh, meh!
20:01:07 <PsyCoil> :P
20:02:35 <PsyCoil> If anyone is interested in History, I highly recommend start watching Three Kingdoms... You can find all episodes on YouTube.
20:05:27 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
20:22:53 <PsyCoil> Heh, I didn't notice there was someone with that nickname here... In any case... The clients that support RTL, apparently, are all open-source: Miranda, Pidgin, Adium [I think]
20:29:55 * aleth is not impressed by the new FF download panel :-(
20:33:55 <PsyCoil> Which FF?
20:34:00 <aleth> Firefox
20:34:09 <aleth> 16
20:35:07 <PsyCoil> Oh... I'm still on 14
20:35:45 <aleth> They'll hopefully tweak it a bit before it hits the release version
20:36:47 <PsyCoil> Hope they're not going the GNOME path
20:36:54 <PsyCoil> aka Breaking everything that works.
20:37:42 <aleth> No, not at all, generally every new FF version is a nice improvement in speed, memory use, features etc
20:38:16 <PsyCoil> But they did start to change the UI
20:38:26 <wnayes> The "awesome" bar seems faster, and the highlighting is a nice touch.
20:38:53 <aleth> wnayes: You're right! It looks subtly different too
20:39:20 <aleth> Ah, the font size changed.
20:40:03 <aleth> The speed really is impressive.
20:41:22 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
20:41:22 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
20:48:55 <aleth> aaaand it froze :-S
20:52:58 --> jb has joined #instantbird
21:01:48 <clokep> What froze? Firefox?
21:02:00 <clokep> Not Instantbird, right?
21:02:26 <aleth> Firefox... sorry about the offtopicness. I filed a bug already ;)
21:07:07 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout)
21:20:19 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
21:20:59 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Quit: FireFly_TB)
21:21:20 --> FireFly_TB has joined #instantbird
21:27:44 <-- Suiseiseki has quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:27:55 <-- wnayes has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
21:28:14 --> wnayes has joined #instantbird
21:39:07 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird
21:49:22 --> Suiseiseki has joined #instantbird
21:53:47 <-- FireFly_TB has quit (Ping timeout)
21:59:26 * aleth was hoping fribidi would be somewhere in comm-central already, but it doesn't look like it
22:06:05 <aleth> Somewhere in mozilla there should already exist the necessary code
22:06:44 --> flo has joined #instantbird
22:06:44 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
22:07:10 <flo> "I don't even know whether I could use IRC on my production Thunderbird, unless it would buffer conversations and re-load them between restarts. So I might actually have to stick with chatZilla in SM..." sounds so much like someone wants to get instantbird... ;)
22:08:45 * aleth thinks it would be nice if when TB-with-IM is released it is mentioned somewhere where the code came from, so that IB is discoverable ;)
22:27:23 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
22:27:43 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird
22:35:02 <clokep> aleth: I'd guess that Mook might know something about RTL stuff.
22:36:23 <clokep> flo: So he says he hasn't tried it...then makes grand assumptions about all the things we don't support?
22:39:19 <flo> clokep: apparently...
22:39:39 <aleth> Sounds like a productive conversation...
22:41:58 <flo> Sounds like people ranting on tb-planning
22:44:55 <clokep> Sounds like nothing new. ;)
22:45:21 <PsyCoil> aleth: "But I'm a bit confused as to why, in that case, pure-RTL messages aren't
22:45:21 <PsyCoil> already displayed appropriately... or are they?"
22:45:21 <PsyCoil> What do you mean by that? Pure RTL?
22:45:36 <aleth> e.g. incoming Hebrew-only message
22:46:07 <aleth> Is that displayed as it should be?
22:46:52 <PsyCoil> They are displayed LTR to me. But I know It's in the level of the message style
22:47:32 <aleth> What do you mean by "displayed LTR": is it merely the alignment with the left border, but the text itself is fine?
22:48:11 <PsyCoil> aleth: The text itself is fine. When Hebrew-only message incoming.
22:48:54 <aleth> Are you using one of the default message styles?
22:49:14 <PsyCoil> No
22:49:25 <aleth> Could you test it with e.g. Bubbles please?
22:49:45 <PsyCoil> I don't understand what you want me to test...
22:50:16 <aleth> Change your style to Bubbles, then tell me if an incoming Hebrew message is aligned with the left or right edge inside the bubble
22:52:24 <PsyCoil> aleth: Mhmm... Depends on the Message style, incoming messages should be displayed in the right order. I don't understand how that's relevant though, reviver problem...
22:52:50 <aleth> Can you tell me what side they are aligned with when using the Bubbles theme?
22:53:01 <aleth> It's relevant to my understanding of what is going on ;)
22:53:25 <PsyCoil> Oh, nope, they are still aligned LTR but the text is clear, wait a minute
22:53:37 <PsyCoil> I remember with Renkedo
22:54:40 <PsyCoil> Okay, I don't have Renkedo installed but with Modern Bubbling Message style
22:55:04 <PsyCoil> Their alignment is in proper order.
22:56:14 <PsyCoil> But only with "pure" RTL
22:57:53 <aleth> What message style is this?
22:58:14 <aleth> Is it from the add-on site?
22:58:21 <PsyCoil> Meaning messages that are Hebrew only, when combined with English characters, well... even more messed than before.
22:58:24 <PsyCoil> Yes
22:59:01 <aleth> Yes, this should not be fixed at the level of the message style
22:59:20 <PsyCoil> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/140
23:00:15 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Ping timeout)
23:00:15 --> DGMurdockIII_ has joined #instantbird
23:00:19 * DGMurdockIII_ is now known as DGMurdockIII
23:00:24 <aleth> Well, it seems like gecko isn't doing what I thought the documentation said it would do.
23:00:28 <-- Optimizer has quit (Ping timeout)
23:00:40 <aleth> Time to find an expert...
23:02:36 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout)
23:06:56 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
23:07:37 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
23:09:54 * clokep wonders if #l10n would know?
23:09:57 <clokep> Or some other channel.
23:10:08 <aleth> ehsan or smontagu, apparently
23:10:25 <aleth> But thanks.
23:16:31 <-- clokep has quit (Connection reset by peer)
23:16:36 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
23:16:36 * ChanServ sets mode +o clokep 
23:16:52 <clokep> Hmm...Instantbird just crashed.
23:17:22 <aleth> :(
23:17:30 <aleth> New sound driver? ;)
23:17:51 <clokep> No. :P...
23:18:10 <clokep> ID: 731420d2-6347-433e-8c11-5d05c2120721 is the ID...
23:22:28 <-- Tomek has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1)
23:48:05 <-- PsyCoil has quit (Connection reset by peer)
23:49:29 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout)
23:55:11 --> PsyCoil has joined #instantbird