#instantbird log on 11 13 2010

All times are UTC.

00:00:23 <Mic> No and I most likely won't for quite a while
00:00:32 <hicham> the is another learning bot written in python
00:00:33 <hicham> *there
00:00:34 <clokep> Me neither, but I have to say I'd really like it. :(
00:00:46 <Mic> Sync's definitely higher up on my to do list and it's a pretty big thing
00:00:56 <clokep> :)
00:00:58 <flo> hicham: I'm interested in any JS bot one can find
00:01:09 <flo> I would like to make a JS protocol plugin with all of them as contacts :)
00:01:12 <clokep> I'm gonna complete IRC before looking at other ones.
00:01:28 <clokep> flo: I'm gonna upload some code I have...I think you'd be interested...
00:02:09 <flo> :)
00:02:30 * clokep needs to remember how to push an entire repo someplace else.
00:02:55 <flo> hg push <repo address>
00:03:07 <Mic> I'm especially interested in a bot that tries to convince his chat partner that the other is a machine ;)
00:03:40 <clokep> Hahahah.
00:03:41 <Mic> I think you can store different adresses with aliases in some config file
00:03:52 <clokep> I'm not about to show a framework as much as abot.
00:03:56 * flo wonders how an add-on developer is supposed to know that a conversation has been closed
00:04:03 <clokep> Said that backwards, not a bot, but a framework.
00:05:00 <flo> I think I'll push my eliza protocol plugin in the addons repository just so that I don't lose it, but the code (copied from a website version of Eliza) is really crappy :()
00:06:27 <clokep> flo: https://bitbucket.org/clokep/js-lobot
00:06:34 <clokep> I'll be back soon, my friend just ogt here.
00:07:34 <Mic> flo: that means bots to use yourself?
00:07:44 <Mic> Or why else would you need them as contacts
00:08:14 <flo> it's more pleasant than a test protocol that never replies or replies always the same thing when debugging and I'm offline
00:11:03 <clokep> Idk if that works in 0.3 btw.
00:11:12 <clokep> I don't think I updated the component registry.
00:16:18 <flo> supprising, this code works the first time :-D
00:16:32 <flo> (mine, I haven't cloned your repository yet)
00:18:19 <flo> Eliza is doing well :)
00:18:44 <flo> ah, no :(
00:18:47 * Mic hates Mathematicas GIMP-ish interface :S
00:18:52 <clokep> Mic: use MATLAB!
00:18:55 <flo> the stranger said "u use some program I guess"
00:19:05 <hicham> or octave ;)
00:22:07 <flo> hmm, this would be more fun in the eliza tab was hidden, typing a message stopped the bot, typing /eliza restarted it, and Eliza's responses were tagged as "Auto-reply" in the conversation ^^
00:22:25 <flo> s/in/if/
00:24:19 <flo> the stranger is using Eliza's own replies :-D
00:27:06 <clokep> octave blows compared to MATLAB.
00:27:23 <clokep> flo: Also please let me know if I have like a password in any of those files. :)
00:27:55 <hicham> clokep: it needs a lot of functions present in MATLAB
00:28:03 <hicham> clokep: but it is progressing
00:34:02 <flo> clokep: so this is a JS version of the program behind instantbot?
00:34:34 <clokep> flo: Yes, it's roughly a port of the irc bot from Mozilla.
00:34:36 <clokep> mozbot?
00:34:39 <clokep> Yes. that's it.
00:34:49 <clokep> I mean the modules are kin dof a port, but the framework is from scratch.
00:35:58 <flo> I would like to have a bot replying when someone talks to me and I'm away from the computer
00:36:07 <flo> but it would need to be a lot more clever than Eliza of course
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00:42:29 <Mic> What sort of conversations would you like to cover with that?
00:44:39 <Mic> And why?
00:45:25 <flo> stranger: I love you.
00:45:25 <flo> Eliza: Oh... ?
00:45:26 <flo> :)
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00:45:56 <flo> not sure
00:46:21 <flo> but I would like it to be able to give a message a bit more personalized than an away message
00:46:37 <flo> for example, it could tell what I'm doing to people who are close enough to know
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00:47:12 <flo> and it would reply in a language that is suitable for the person, and with a vocabulary similar to what I usually use when talking to that person
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00:49:44 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/457 example of Omegle - Eliza conversation
00:51:26 <Mic> Thanks.
00:51:34 <Mic> I should have left before clicking this link.
00:52:07 <Mic> nn
00:52:12 <flo> Well, good night then :)
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11:56:44 <Mic> From a posting on PMO: "Some people have pointed to about:config to change the preferences to switch back to the old behavior. But if that sounds too complex, you can just install an add-on to do the dirty work for you."
11:57:03 <Mic> Sad to see that it takes an addon to help someone change a more advanced setting
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12:24:01 <hxm> hi
12:24:15 <hxm> i don't get kde style 
12:24:19 <hxm> it looks as old appearance
12:24:27 <hxm> should I install a package?
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15:03:36 <flo> the mac nightly of today crashes at startup, I've disabled it in the update system.
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18:46:52 <clokep> Good day!
18:47:23 <Tonnes> likewise!
18:55:50 <clokep> flo: That's a creepy conversation with Eliza. :P
19:03:03 <flo> clokep: bah... ;)
19:03:25 <clokep> Eliza wasn't the creepy one. :)
19:03:35 <flo> that's common on Omegle
19:03:46 <flo> it's the reason why I don't feel bad putting bots in there
19:03:52 <clokep> Right.
19:05:36 <flo> not sure if I should release the code to do that.
19:05:45 <clokep> Probably not. :)
19:05:55 <flo> it's 38 lines of code
19:06:06 <clokep> :) That's pretty awesome.
19:06:13 <clokep> Mic would probably want to remove some.
19:06:42 <flo> (I mean the code to make the 2 protocol plugins talk to each other. Eliza is a lot longer and contains a lot of crappy code that I copied from a website)
19:06:53 <clokep> Ohhhhh.
19:07:12 <clokep> I could be interested in that actually. :) THat was kind of how I wanted my bot to work initially?
19:07:17 <clokep> Make it a protocol.
19:07:25 <clokep> And then have it talk to other protocols internally.
19:07:46 <flo> I think we will want to have a good API for bots if we continue playing with that
19:07:58 <flo> having an account and a protocol plugin is a bit stupid in that case
19:08:09 <flo> I would prefer having a single conversation instead of two
19:08:16 <clokep> Mmmm. True.
19:08:20 <flo> it's really just a hack currently
19:08:23 <clokep> I don't know if you look ta that code I put up? It's very sloppy.
19:08:38 <flo> I opened index.html in my browser :)
19:09:57 <clokep> index.html I think is my original test page. :)
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19:11:52 <clokep> chrome/content/Lobot.js is where the "magic" happens mostly.
19:12:43 <clokep> And components/lobotProtocol.js let's you talk directly to it, although the point was to be able to have it take multiple accounts.
19:14:23 * flo has a stranger on Omegle explaining Eliza how evil the rain is
19:17:52 <Mic> What do you not want to release, flo?
19:18:04 <Mic> The bots? Or the 'pipe' between protocols?
19:18:09 <flo> the code to let instantbird spam omegle with eliza
19:18:30 <flo> the pipe that connects them automatically
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19:21:19 <Mic> Do you think you could justify sharing both with us?
19:24:20 <Mic> clokep: what would I like to remove btw?
19:24:35 <Mic> Lines of code?
19:24:38 <clokep> Yes.
19:24:46 <clokep> You seem to like simplifying things.
19:25:32 <Mic> IS that good or bad? ;)
19:25:34 <Mic> *Is
19:27:55 <flo> clokep: I tend to reduce the length of my code to the extreme too ;)
19:29:47 <clokep> It's good, as long sa you don't go overboard and make things difficult to read.
19:30:37 <Mic> Even though I like short code, there are some things like I don't like
19:31:32 <Mic> I prefer " == 0" when checking the length of arrays for example
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20:04:09 <flo> nice conversation: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/459 :)
20:07:39 <clokep> Well he figured it out. :)
20:07:48 <clokep> After 10 minutes.
20:09:11 <Mic> :D
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21:14:16 <flo> it would be funnier if the code of Eliza was clear enough that I could fix the bugs I notice...
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21:28:42 <DGMurdockIII> how is the rewrite of the buddy list backend comming along?
21:29:16 <flo> it's in the nightlies already
21:30:43 <DGMurdockIII> version 0.3a1pre (20101107042139)
21:30:48 <DGMurdockIII> this verson
21:30:57 <flo> I guess I should have posted something on the blog :-/
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21:35:58 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
21:39:33 <Mic> Yes, what about a weekly status report? ;)
21:39:53 <flo> is there a volunteer to write it?
21:40:21 <flo> what about we all post on twitter (as soon as the nightlies support it) whenever there's something note worthy
21:40:51 <flo> and someone (maybe not always the same person) summarizes once in a while for the blog?
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21:44:30 <Mic> You want a proper blog posting then?
21:44:43 <flo> I don't know
21:44:44 <Mic> I was more thinking about a few words, so people see that there's something going on
21:44:55 <Mic> In a way like Mossop's postings 
21:44:57 <flo> I just notice that I'm always late at doing it and that someone else may do better
21:45:20 <Mic> e.g. http://www.oxymoronical.com/blog/2010/11/Mossop-Status-Update-2010-11-12
21:45:31 <flo> yeah, I know what Mossop posts :)
21:45:39 <clokep> What about something like: http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/weekly-updates.fcgi
21:45:43 <Mic> I guess that's like the keywords you'd give someone to write a post
21:45:48 <flo> it seems I always have a good reason to not do it "now".
21:46:11 <flo> "it landed but there's a bad regression that needs fixing before we announce it", "it landed but we have no nightly today", blahblahblah
21:46:50 <flo> if the goal of the post is to keep people who are not here updated with what happened with the project during the week, anybody who is regularly here can do it.
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21:48:37 <flo> Mic: I was thinking a bit of something like the about:mozilla newsletter
21:49:42 <Mic> Sorry, I never received it
21:50:03 <flo> it's posted in planet mozilla every week
21:50:11 <Mic> Ah, this thing .. 
21:50:17 <Mic> I usually skip that :D
21:50:28 <flo> it's completely useless if you read planet mozilla
21:50:36 <Mic> Most likely because I've read the things before already
21:50:43 <flo> yeah
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21:53:32 <Mic> It's wordy
21:53:46 <flo> it's readable by people who are not yet developers
21:53:54 <flo> but we certainly don't have to make it that long
21:54:01 <Mic> A paragraph per topic is not so much though, but it's much in total
21:54:12 <clokep> I don't think there's usually neough  to do a weekly thing like that.
21:54:13 <clokep> Maybe bi-weekly?
21:54:19 <flo> yeah, because many things happen in the mozilla community each week
21:54:31 <flo> I think bi-weekly would be better for Instantbird
21:54:39 <flo> but we could post something else in between
21:54:46 <flo> tips, cool add-on of the month, ...
21:55:00 <clokep> I like that. :)
21:55:31 <Mic> I guess we can't do that for long, except if we decide to feature messagestyles themes as well maybe :P
21:56:34 <Mic> I should fix my addon :(
21:57:01 <clokep> We can even just do a cool experiment even if it doesn't work.
21:57:04 <Mic> It doesn't work with nightlies at the moment since the buddy list backend landed. I didn't have time to look into the new status's yet
21:58:21 <Mic> clokep: what have you in mind for that?
21:59:45 <clokep> flo's one window experiment thing, even the Eliza stuff (although we might not want to advertise that that works. ;))
21:59:51 <clokep> But things along that line.
21:59:56 <clokep> Even if it's not fully polishd.
22:00:40 <flo> We have enough add-ons in the addons hg repository to feature at least one every month for a long time
22:00:55 <flo> and I can make new ones :)
22:01:06 <clokep> + I have a few not in there. ;)
22:01:34 <flo> creating a new one from ideas we already have is only a matter of spending a few hours on a cool stuff instead of on things on the roadmap
22:02:07 <clokep> I'm hoping in another month I'll have a lot more time to work on stuff.
22:03:47 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/460
22:04:06 <Mic> A few comments on recent changes
22:04:29 <Mic> Any other ideas?
22:04:31 <flo> yeah, it's a good start
22:04:44 <clokep> I don't remember anything else. :-\
22:05:10 <flo> maybe we should create a wikipage for the next status update each time one have been posted, and put stuff there
22:05:23 <flo> and when someone feels like it's time to post, start writing something readable
22:05:30 <flo> and give others a day or two to proofread
22:07:07 <Mic> clokep: did brainstorming on completion again?
22:07:10 <flo> maybe we can say that the change of the tabs was following a suggestion from Markus Stange on the http://blog.instantbird.org/a18-tabs.html post
22:07:19 <Mic> I'm not sure if such things are worth mentioning though
22:08:23 <Mic> Too bad that I don't know how the tabs on Terminal.app look like ;)
22:08:26 <flo> (it's an encouragment for more suggestions in the future)
22:08:39 <flo> I think it's the guy who wrote that code in Mozilla ;)
22:08:47 <flo> (part of the Mac widget code)
22:09:42 * hicham likes messagestyles
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22:14:46 <flo> Mic: are we only trying to mention things that were done, or also things that are still pending (like "we are still looking for an affordable mac mini")
22:15:17 <Mic> I saw Brainstorming on Fx 4.1 on Mossop's blog, that's why I suggested it
22:15:58 <flo> the brainstorming session (about completion) actually happened. There are artifacts in instantbot's log and on the wiki
22:21:53 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:status_update
22:22:49 <Mic> A bit rough-spoken, but well
22:22:58 <Mic> a start at least
22:24:18 <Mic> Sure it happened, I think I kicked it off
22:25:07 <flo> I don't know where teh brainstorming about Fx4.1 happened
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22:26:09 <flo> sounds like a great start! :)
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22:27:10 <flo> not sure if we should mention that both the new buddy list backend and the changes made to use CSS transitions for the animations dramatically improved the performances of turning on the "show offline buddy" feature
22:30:32 <clokep> Mic: Yes completition stuff. :)
22:31:02 <Mic> Does it work with modal dialogs now btw?
22:31:16 <flo> I haven't tried
22:31:26 <flo> let's see
22:33:10 <flo> it works (on Mac) with the "Add Buddy" dialog above the buddy list
22:33:39 <Mic> I guess it should work with the other too then
22:33:46 <flo> (I checked it by connecting an account from the accounts manager, and by toggling on and off the value of messenger.buddies.showOffline from about:config)
22:34:16 <flo> I don't remember if I had verified that I could reproduce the bug on mac at the time you reported it
22:37:27 <Mic> no, still broken on Windows
22:37:44 <flo> :(
22:38:26 <Mic> Hiding them works, but showing them only expands the space but doesn't add the buddies until the dialog is closed
22:38:29 <Mic> Updated the wiki btw
22:39:22 <flo> that's strange
22:42:19 <Mic> Connecting accounts is worse
22:48:20 * flo will need to figure out a way to make the blog post say "Written at ... by Mic" ;)
22:54:06 <hicham> flo : is that merged in master branch ?
22:54:20 <flo> hicham: that = ?
22:54:38 <Mic> Ah, ok.
22:55:22 <Mic> I don't mind having my real name there (with abbreviated last name as on Hg) either
22:56:17 <flo> ok
22:57:34 <flo> good night :)
22:57:38 <Mic> good night
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