#instantbird log on 11 01 2010

All times are UTC.

00:18:50 <flo> Good night
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05:16:25 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): u there
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07:05:30 <instantbot> Just appeared in Pidgin News - default :
07:05:31 <instantbot> http://salinasv.blogspot.com/2010/11/msnp16-and-slp-rewrite-merged.html - Jorge Villaseñor: MSNP16 and SLP-rewrite merged
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09:19:42 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 570 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
09:19:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, OpenSearch support on the wiki?
09:42:33 <instantbot> New Websites - bugzilla.instantbird.org bug 571 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
09:42:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Product & Components on bugzilla  unclear/inconsistent
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11:47:00 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
11:49:39 <flo> hello :)
11:54:32 <hicham> hi
12:01:24 <clokep> Hello.
12:20:07 <Mic> Hi
12:21:25 <Mic> We're being completely inefficient right now according to Tantek Celik's 'Communication Protocols'. Greetings are unnecessary overhead :P
12:22:42 * flo will be almost completely inefficient for the rest of the day :-P
12:25:08 <Mic> Is first of Novembre also a holiday in France?
12:26:02 <flo> yes
12:27:12 <flo> I'm exhausted after 5 days spent emptying my grand-parent's house
12:27:57 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com set the Resolution field on bug 570 to WORKSFORME.
12:27:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, OpenSearch support on the wiki?
12:28:59 <flo> (and the house is not empty yet... there's still a huge amount of junk in the basement)
12:29:00 <Mic> clokep: thanks for checking :)
12:30:05 <flo> Mic: by the way, that bug is a nice example of a component issue. Using www.ib.org as the component for the wiki CC idechix (who has no special powers on the wiki) automatically and not even (who maintains it)
12:31:20 <clokep> Mic: I don't use the searchbar either, but I add all my search engines to it and use keywords from the URL bar...I remembered adding one for w.i.o.
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12:33:16 <clokep> Is anyone else getting bug 567 or is it something w/ my configuration? :(
12:33:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=567 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Crash on stand-by
12:33:47 <Mic> I don't use stand-by.
12:34:54 <flo> clokep: I wanted to ask you if the problem persists if you disable your myspace account (the stacks are in libpurple in the myspace plugin)
12:35:13 <clokep> I can do that now. :) I'll let you know if it crashes when I get to class.
12:35:14 <flo> but I got too lazy to log into bugzilla with my phone to send the comment
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12:35:51 <clokep> flo: Well then...it crashed when I hit "Disconnect" on MySpace. :)
12:36:05 * clokep is unchecking sign in at startup
12:36:05 <flo> ahah :)
12:38:13 <clokep> Isn't MySpace just an XMPP override though?
12:38:42 <clokep> :) Halloween icon just popped up for me.
12:39:19 <flo> no. Facebook is.
12:39:34 <clokep> Oh OK. MySpace is a custom protocol? I see.
12:39:56 <clokep> I need to get. Will be back in a bit.
12:40:12 <flo> I think (but I'm not sure) it's a protocol plugin that was developed for libpurple/pidgin as a Google summer of code project and hasn't really been maintained since that
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12:53:26 <clokep> Ah the new MSN stuff was merged into libpurple, I wonder if it actually works any better.
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13:25:34 <tymerkaev> instantbot: pwm
13:25:37 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Sorry, I've no idea what 'pwm' might be.
13:26:00 <tymerkaev> instantbot: owm
13:26:02 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Sorry, I've no idea what 'owm' might be.
13:28:34 <tymerkaev> instantbot: lvm
13:28:37 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Sorry, I've no idea what 'lvm' might be.
13:28:38 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Logs Viewer mockup (LVm) is here: http://img690.imageshack.us/i/logsvieweri1.png/. Created by tymerkaev.
13:29:09 <tymerkaev> instantbot: thanks
13:29:10 <instantbot> tymerkaev: np
13:29:16 <tymerkaev> nice
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13:36:55 <tymerkaev> hello sadrick 
13:37:01 <sadrick> hi all^^
13:37:56 <sadrick> i hoped the locale manager for the german translation would be here
13:42:12 <Mic> Hello
13:43:19 <Mic> I don't think I've seen him on IRC before
13:43:40 <Mic> If you need to contact him, there's an email adress on the list of the locale managers
13:44:13 <Mic> That is: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Locales_Managers
13:44:47 <sadrick> i just wrote him an email
13:44:56 <sadrick> i hope he'll answer^^
13:45:03 <Mic> flo, do you know if there's been progress on the german translation?
13:45:27 <Mic> There are no changesets but the initial on the repository
13:46:19 <sadrick> an the initial upload was done by the system?
13:46:23 <sadrick> and
13:46:40 <Mic> Sort of
13:47:32 <Mic> It contains already translated strings from libpurple (the IM backend of the program)
13:47:59 <sadrick> i see
13:48:07 <Mic> I'm native german speaker as well, by the way
13:48:19 <sadrick> sag das doch gleich :-D
13:48:24 <Mic> Nice to see that you're interested in Instantbird
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13:49:05 <Mic> Ist aber wohl besser, weiterhin englisch zu reden, da die anderen hier sonst nichts verstehen. Wird bei anderen Sprachen auch so praktiziert.
13:49:17 <sadrick> alles klar^^
13:49:37 <Mic> If you've got any questions, just ask
13:51:14 <sadrick> lol
13:51:16 <Mic> There's a link to "related links" on the front page of the wiki, you can find most of the important parts of the project linked from there, so it is a good start to look there if you need a page that you don't know yet
13:51:24 <sadrick> the local manager just wrote me back
13:51:46 <sadrick> i wrote my emal at 14.42
13:51:54 <sadrick> he answered me at 14.48
13:51:55 <sadrick> xD
13:52:26 <Mic> Quite quick, indeed
13:54:32 <sadrick> he wrote that he's much to do for his study
13:56:29 <sadrick> and that he will ask even to give me write access to the repository
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13:58:23 <Even> @sadrick: it would be quicker to ask flo directly, I don't handle those matters. I'm only supervising systems, not people :).
13:58:45 <Even> Though, I sometimes dare to give my mind on matters.
13:59:52 <Even> ^^
14:00:17 <sadrick> ^^
14:01:01 <sadrick> oh...sven already asked flo
14:01:13 <sadrick> i'm in CC
14:01:17 <Even> Yeah, so he did things well.
14:04:34 <sadrick> instantbird is sooo nice
14:04:49 <sadrick> i just saw theres a plugin for the kolobok smileys
14:05:04 <Mic> Nice to hear that, is there anything you like in particular?
14:05:12 <Even> Well, I have to agree :P. It is nice indeed ^^
14:05:23 <sadrick> there are a couple of things^^
14:05:38 <Even> I have one : it is actually working.
14:05:56 <sadrick> the most time i used QIP
14:06:45 <sadrick> not the current crap called "QIP 2010" oder "QIP Infium"
14:07:01 <sadrick> I'm talking about qip 2005
14:07:16 <sadrick> it was a nice messenger but the developer lost interest in it
14:07:42 <sadrick> instantbird looks very nice
14:08:12 <sadrick> is light and fast
14:08:31 <sadrick> and it works properly^^
14:08:38 <clokep> And very extensible. :)
14:08:41 <sadrick> yes
14:08:47 <sadrick> of course^^
14:08:56 <sadrick> how could i forgot this
14:09:25 <sadrick> but theres one thing i miss
14:09:28 <sadrick> a history^^
14:09:36 <clokep> It has logging built in.
14:10:54 <Mic> argh, the buddy list backend update broke my status extension :S
14:11:01 <Mic> Time for a compatibility update ..
14:11:13 <sadrick> ^^
14:11:55 * clokep is glad none of his extensions broke a yet.
14:11:59 <Even> @sadrick: Though it is not beautiful, have you tried right click on a buddy and then chos logs ?
14:12:20 <Even> *show logs
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14:12:28 <sadrick> damn^^
14:12:34 <sadrick> i didnt searched there
14:12:36 <sadrick> :-D
14:12:37 <Even> ^^
14:12:45 <Even> Yeah, I figured that much.
14:13:06 <sadrick> nice
14:13:24 <Mic> well, not really, but it sort of works :P
14:13:36 <sadrick> the "show offline buddies" ist well placed
14:14:24 <sadrick> in other messengers you always have to dig through endles menus
14:15:37 <sadrick> where do i find the logs on disk?
14:16:06 <Mic> You can open this folder from the Options dialog
14:16:43 <Mic> The button is in the "Privacy" section
14:17:25 <sadrick> wow, one file for every minute?^^
14:18:21 <Mic> Not quite, it is one for each session (from opening to closing a conversation tab)
14:18:28 <sadrick> i see
14:19:13 <Mic> The logging is going to be replaced with something better one day (should be on the 'roadmap')
14:19:47 <Mic> Just checked: it says version 0.4 there
14:20:06 <sadrick> something based on xml? ^^
14:20:13 <clokep> SQLite.
14:20:51 <sadrick> oh dear^^
14:20:51 <clokep> Speaking of which...Mic: How did manually creating a contact work out? :)
14:21:31 <Mic> It worked, the buddies had the same alias on the buddy list after that (if I'm not mistaken)
14:21:43 <clokep> :)
14:21:50 <Mic> No other visible effects
14:22:25 <sadrick> i was happy that i can easily take the log files an place them on my central server^^
14:22:43 <sadrick> and
14:22:55 <sadrick> so i have the same version on every client
14:22:57 <sadrick> ^^
14:23:01 <clokep> Yes, unfortunately by making them SQLite you can't just open them easily.
14:23:11 <clokep> There's a bug for Syncing clients though sadrick. :)
14:23:13 <Mic> There's plans to sync different cliens
14:23:42 <sadrick> that would perfect!
14:24:21 <Mic> I'm trying to adapt Firefox Sync for this purpose, even though I have little time at the moment (and need to get back wokring now)
14:25:24 <clokep> Yes, I have to go too. :)
14:25:29 <sadrick> i guess the log  will be saved on the instantbird server?
14:25:41 <clokep> Or your own server.
14:26:19 <sadrick> really?*delirious with joy*
14:27:47 <flo> I'm not sure we can afford enough servers to store the logs of all instantbird users
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14:29:29 <Mic> Logs are pretty space consuming compared to other information that needs syncing, yes :(
14:29:53 <flo> I have about 90MB of them per year I think
14:30:16 <flo> but they are very poorly stored, so with a sensible format used and some compression, it may become a lot lighter :)
14:30:57 <sadrick> ^^
14:31:07 <Mic> For me it's only 15MB for 2 years but don't ask for the size on disk :(
14:32:38 <Even> Which leads us to a problematic conclusion, at 90MB/y/u, we can't afford to store everybody's logs on our server though it might be an important feature.
14:32:44 <Even> That really is a problem...
14:33:00 <flo> it's more space consuming if you have lots of accounts that connect and disconnect frequently, and several IRC channels that you auto-join
14:33:04 <sadrick> you could abuse helpless free google mail accounts as space :-D
14:33:25 <flo> sadrick: I was interested in Dropbox for that purpose ;)
14:33:54 * flo is going to be away for an hour or two
14:33:59 <Even> flo: yeah, it might be better to ask for a dropbox account credentials and store things there.
14:34:25 <flo> yeah, store them encrypted on dropbox :)
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14:35:25 <sadrick> why not^^
14:37:01 <sadrick> somebody should write a tool which automatically creates dropbox accounts and combine the to one logical drive
14:37:02 <sadrick> :-D
14:38:39 <Mic> That applies only to public IRC channels but what about storing irc channel logs only once + the information when the respective user was online?
14:40:12 <sadrick> this still means 24 hour logging of all irc chanels visited by instantbird users
14:41:08 <Mic> but only once, instead of N times a fraction of that
14:42:24 <Mic> Mic|away  (another computer of me) is here nearly 24 hours a day recently
14:42:46 <Mic> So with 'his' log you'd get all other #instantbird logs 'for free'
14:43:00 <sadrick> yeah, i got the idea^^
14:43:22 <sadrick> the only thing i'm saying. it's still a lot^^
14:43:39 <Mic> This works fine as long as logs can't be altered in a way
14:43:46 <Mic> e.g. by extensions or whatever
14:44:27 <Even> @Mic: not quite realistic without an all mighty Instantbird server able to know who and which channel each users is on.
14:45:24 <Mic> but it would if the client reports its logs to it.
14:46:14 <Mic> If the logs match what's said on the 'global log', then the content wouldn't be duplicated but only a reference to it containing information from when to when a user was in the channel
14:46:29 <Mic> *reference created
14:46:33 <Even> The global log would be create jhow exactly ?
14:46:53 <Even> You need an all mighty log server that logs on to any channel used by at least one Ib user.
14:47:03 <Even> So you need some way to find out where your users are connected.
14:47:11 <Even> That's not quite my conception of privacy.
14:47:15 <sadrick> ^^
14:48:03 <Even> Quite a good idea but we miss a secure way of implementing it. And to my current knowledge of the art, there is no way to do this.
14:48:04 <Mic> The privacy issue is a serious one
14:49:11 <Even> What is possible is to have an extension for it.
14:49:22 <Mic> lol
14:49:29 <Mic> Outsourcing privacy issues :P
14:49:37 <Even> Allowing you to mark any channel you're interested on to log it.
14:49:42 <Even> Once and for all.
14:49:47 <Even> Then a bot will come in and log it all.
14:49:52 <sadrick> if its acceptable that the server knows on which server a client ist
14:49:56 <Even> Allowing you to access it later and to catch up what you missed.
14:50:22 <sadrick> the you can't save the logs on the server anyway
14:50:25 <sadrick> then
14:50:30 <Even> I noone look at those logs for at least - period of time - the bot get off the chan and stops it jobs.
14:50:44 <Even> And then the user know what he gives in.
14:51:16 <Mic> I don't like the bot idea ... imagine every different client would offer such a service
14:51:33 <Even> There would be an awfull lot of bots on a channel :P
14:51:34 <sadrick> xD
14:51:59 <Even> (one for each IM program in the world able to support IRC)
14:52:05 <Even> So +4 to 10 bots :P
14:52:11 <Even> That's still manageable.
14:52:36 <Mic> I guess every average Linux installation has more than 10 different IRC clients :P
14:52:47 <sadrick> this could be one third of this channel xD
14:52:53 <Mic> ok, I need to go
14:52:55 <Mic> Have a nice day
14:52:59 <Even> Yeah, but we're talking about advanced enough ones to have such a complex server.
14:53:03 <sadrick> you too
14:53:12 <Even> Yep, you too.
14:53:33 <Even> But we're okay to say : it's rather inrealistic :P
14:53:41 <Even> We don't really want to do this.
14:54:01 <Even> User's log storage in a secure location is good enough for now.
14:54:09 <Even> It it would definitely be a very good feature for me :P
14:54:15 <Even> (always loosing my logs ^^)
14:54:35 <sadrick> i'm using two clients xD
14:54:42 <sadrick> different logs
14:54:43 <sadrick> ^^
14:55:00 <sadrick> i hope instantbird will lead this to an end
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15:30:00 <Mic> clokep: renaming the buddy of a contact affects all others btw
15:38:06 <sadrick> I've to go
15:38:10 <sadrick> have a nice day
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16:11:50 <clokep> Adium 1.4 was released w/ Twitter & IRC? Or so Life Hacker tells me.
16:19:56 <flo> another issue about merging the IRC logs from different users for a same channel: the user may be interested in knowing which messages were received, and when. The lag will be different from one user to another, so the timestamps can't really be centralized
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16:48:32 <Mic> good point
16:48:59 <DGMurdockIII> hi
16:49:19 <Mic> Maybe the suggestion with a global log is not bad either (e.g. you can contribute to a global log of a channel by sharing your log with others
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18:34:35 <stnkvcmls_> i have a question about instantbird
18:34:45 <flo> hello
18:34:46 <stnkvcmls_> is it possible to set tabs on side?
18:34:50 <stnkvcmls_> hi :)
18:34:54 <flo> there's an add-on for that
18:35:17 <stnkvcmls_> can i get a link, please :)
18:37:07 <flo> stnkvcmls_: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/244
18:37:30 <stnkvcmls_> thanks :)
18:37:41 <flo> you are welcome
18:39:03 <flo> stnkvcmls_: any other question?
18:39:48 <stnkvcmls_> not right now :)
18:44:16 <stnkvcmls_> i have another question :)
18:44:36 <stnkvcmls_> i'm connected to irc.onlinegamesnet.net and irc.mozilla.org
18:45:21 <stnkvcmls_> but i don't have any window for irc.mozilla.org where i could type commands (like /join)
18:45:39 <flo> you can join channels from the File->Join Chat dialog
18:46:20 <stnkvcmls_> i see
18:46:22 <stnkvcmls_> thanks :)
18:47:08 <stnkvcmls_> is it posible to set highlights?
18:47:34 <stnkvcmls_> like, when someone types my name, there's a sound
18:48:21 <flo> it's there by default when someone types your nick
18:48:32 <flo> there's an add-on to customize it and add more key words
18:49:37 <stnkvcmls_> and there's no option to add custom text?
18:52:09 <flo> stnkvcmls_: there's an add-on to customize it and add more key words
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19:28:16 <stnkvcmls> hi again :)
19:28:21 <stnkvcmls> i have another question
19:28:44 <stnkvcmls> i cant auth my nick
19:28:54 <stnkvcmls> it says: 'User is not logged in'
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19:40:57 <flo> stnkvcmls: how have you tried to do it?
19:41:26 <stnkvcmls> nevermid, i found a solution
19:41:32 <stnkvcmls> now i have different problem
19:41:46 <stnkvcmls> is there a way to run command on startup
19:41:59 <clokep> What sort of command?
19:42:05 <stnkvcmls> i mean, on logging to irc
19:42:13 <stnkvcmls> for auth
19:42:33 <stnkvcmls> like /msg AuthServ@Services.OnlineGamesNet.net COMMAND
19:42:33 <clokep> If you put your password in it should auth automatically with the server or w/ nickserv.
19:42:48 <stnkvcmls> i did
19:42:51 <stnkvcmls> but nothing
19:42:52 <clokep> Oh wait...I think it's hard coded to only do it on certain domains, is that right flo?
19:43:26 <stnkvcmls> and /authserv doesnt work
19:43:43 <clokep> Do /msg authserv blah blah
19:43:48 <stnkvcmls> i have to type that above (/msg AuthServ@blabla...)
19:43:56 <stnkvcmls> yea, i know
19:44:08 <stnkvcmls> but is there a way to do it automaticaly?
19:44:29 <stnkvcmls> when i start instantbird and connect to irc
19:45:07 <clokep> Not that I know of.
19:45:24 <stnkvcmls> damn
19:45:37 <stnkvcmls> i guess i have to learn how to make addon :)
19:45:58 <clokep> Haha.
19:46:05 <clokep> I'm' currently rewriting IRC and you'll be able to do it.
19:46:11 <clokep> Well not custom commands.
19:46:13 <clokep> But custom auth.
19:46:17 <clokep> But that's not done yet.
19:46:22 <clokep> And I hvae no ETA.
19:46:32 <stnkvcmls> no rush
19:47:04 <clokep> In terms of an addon it shld be super simple -- especially if you want to make it very specific haha.
19:47:13 <stnkvcmls> i was looking for program that can unite all my im clients
19:47:33 <clokep> :)
19:47:42 <stnkvcmls> and this is exactly what i need :)
19:48:51 <stnkvcmls> only skype is missing :D
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19:52:36 <stnkvcmls> is there a big difference between 0.2 and 0.3?
19:53:03 <clokep> There's a bug for Skype support. ;) And Skype doesn't really work in any 3rd party clients.
19:53:13 <clokep> The differences are in the backend.
19:53:47 <clokep> 0.3 is based off of a newer version of libpurple (2.74.) and a newer version of the Mozilla stuff (2.0, i.e. Firefox 4)
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19:55:14 <stnkvcmls> i noticed that every im client that can use skype needs to have skype installed
19:55:19 <stnkvcmls> to bad :(
19:56:18 <clokep> Yes.
19:56:30 <clokep> Hopefully with SkypeKit (a new library skype is releasing) this will change.
19:58:18 <clokep> I actually have a framework for being able to run some arbitrary scripts at certain actions, but its a mess and would need to be cleaned way up before being released.
19:59:30 <stnkvcmls> how long is instantbird been developed?
20:00:25 <clokep> flo has been working on it for a few years I believe.
20:00:34 <clokep> I just started this summer. ;)
20:00:52 <flo> started in 2007
20:01:08 <stnkvcmls> i read about it today
20:01:27 <stnkvcmls> in domestic computer magazine
20:01:44 <clokep> Oh, it was in a magazine?
20:01:54 <stnkvcmls> aham
20:02:43 <stnkvcmls> svet kompjutera
20:02:52 <stnkvcmls> eng: world of computers
20:03:00 <clokep> Ah OK.
20:03:26 <stnkvcmls> good review :)
20:04:22 <clokep> Going to update, brb.
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20:53:00 <Mic> Good evening
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20:53:44 <clokep> Hey.
21:06:38 <Mic> Firefox 4's new About-dialog has a "Get involved" link, maybe we should add something similiar?
21:12:00 <Mic> clokep: since you're working on this troubleshooting bug: what do you think about including "Restart with updates disabled"? Checking if the problem occurs in safe-mode too is standard procedure ...
21:12:40 <clokep> Mic: As part of about:support or as menu option?
21:12:58 <clokep> "With updates disabled" do you mean "addons disabled"?
21:12:59 <Mic> Fx4 includes it as menu option in the Help menu
21:13:10 <Mic> *addons, thanks
21:13:11 <clokep> Yes. I think it could probably make sense.
21:15:30 <clokep> Yeah it'd probably be good to add.
21:16:10 <clokep> I can probably just do that in the same bug if you want to add a comment? :)
21:18:40 <Mic> ok, I'll add a comment
21:19:21 <clokep> Thanks.
21:20:15 <clokep> Sorry -- working on a project for class. :)
21:21:48 <Mic> d'oh. I included an unrelated full quote of your last comment as well..
21:24:03 <clokep> Its fine. :)
21:45:15 <DGMurdockIII> mic. that is a good idea about the About-dialog
21:45:35 <Mic> I don't like the hidden update button
21:45:54 <DGMurdockIII> in firefox 4
21:46:06 <Mic> but if the road is leading towards silent updates anyways it won't matter that much either
21:50:49 <DGMurdockIII> your using minefield
21:55:07 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 394 to bug 526.
21:55:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526 enh, --, ---, clokep, NEW, Provide UI to open about:crashes and about:support
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22:05:33 <Mic> Yes, but really only for testing
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22:26:21 <DGMurdockIII> reason i asked becse in the firefox 4 beta the update button is still there
22:32:18 <Mic> Yes, it is on the about dialog while it was on the help menu before
22:45:35 <Mic> Good night
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23:09:57 <flo> Good night!
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