#instantbird log on 09 09 2010

All times are UTC.

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06:02:07 <Mic> clokep: you killed the xkcd reference (http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/mispronouncing.png) :P
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10:20:25 <Mic> hello flo
10:20:32 <flo> hi :)
10:23:30 <flo> this afternoon I'll try to work on planing/explaining on the wiki what we are going to do for 0.3
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10:30:52 <Mic> On the wiki? So it's not official yet?
10:39:19 <flo> I would like to have it a lot more detailed than what we have done before, in the hope that it will be possible to follow "where we are/what we are doing now"
10:39:45 <flo> (and even better, "how can I help?" "where is feedback welcome/wanted/needed?" :))
10:40:26 <flo> lunch time!
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13:20:43 <clokep> Sorry Mic, I guess that's not one of the xkcd's I usually remember.
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13:29:35 <Mic|web> flo: about comment 4 on bug 490: why won't ".message>p CSS selectors [...] work anymore"? In the example you gave they are still a child of the node with class ".message" so it should work, shouldn't it?
13:29:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=490 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use a Class for Each Buddy
13:29:55 <flo> Mic|web: > is a direct child
13:30:03 <Mic|web> It's not that they're becoming 'farther descendants'
13:31:11 <Mic|web> Ah! You mixed up the beginning of the example code
13:31:41 <Mic|web> Maybe you should have formatted it differently for the sake of clarity
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13:31:53 <flo> the <hr><p>Message2 ... is a second message that is inserted
13:31:58 <Mic|web> Would have been obvious then .. I see what you mean now
13:32:28 <flo> I would have liked to put the additions in bold
13:32:34 <flo> but I don't know how to do it there
13:33:01 <flo> would it have been clear if I had used the * character to enclose the added code?
13:34:07 <Mic|web> A few more line breaks and intendation (if possible) would have helped imo
13:35:02 <flo> about the hg repository
13:35:12 <flo> I can totally provide you an hg repository for your work on sync
13:36:40 <flo> I'm not sure if you want an hg repository specifically for the purpose of working on the sync feature, or if creating user repositories (where you could version control all your work on add-ons) for you, clokep and maybe a few others would be better
13:37:59 <Mic|web> I've got a TortoiseHG setup at home, I could use that if it only me working on an addon
13:38:48 <Mic|web> A shared one for collaboration would be useful. It doesn't have to be for sync only
13:39:29 <flo> so one shared for all experiments?
13:39:46 <Mic|web> Yes, something like that
13:40:59 <clokep> Yeah, the hope was for collaboration. :)
13:41:24 <flo> I think I could give write permissions on the current addons repository, but I would rather keep only working add-ons there, so that it can be used for as examples / copy/paste material for new add-on developers.
13:41:40 <flo> so I guess it's better to create another repository :)
13:42:58 <clokep> While you're at it you sohuld fix the styling on hg.instantbird.org. ;)
13:43:06 <flo> that's unrelated
13:43:15 <clokep> I know.
13:43:27 <flo> on the blog too...
13:43:59 <clokep> An experimental one would probably be the way to go.
13:48:51 <clokep> On an unrelated side note...I've been very unable to get sockets to work. :-\
13:49:41 <flo> what have you tried? Do you need help?
13:51:04 <clokep> I have some sample code I've been working with (just to connect to google over port 80, sending the HTTP header). I need to try a few other things first, but I might need help. :)
13:51:17 <clokep> Unfortunately most of the sample code I've found is very old (like 2005 ~ 2006)
13:51:35 <flo> ok
13:51:51 <flo> if you are stuck, don't waste too much time before you call for help :)
13:52:21 <clokep> I've been working in an xpcshell, I'm not sure if it'll make a difference if I work directly in the application? That's what I want to try.
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13:56:01 <Mic|web> Flo: Concerning the addons repository: I'd like to add the always-on-top extension as simple example how to use js-ctypes (though I need  to fix the problem with several instances of Ib first (that's why it is still in sandbox on AIO)
13:56:44 <flo> was it a problem in the way you get the HWND?
13:57:45 <Mic|web> Exactly, I'm getting it by searching for windows with the buddy list title. If there are multiple instances running, it does strange things
13:58:22 <flo> hadn't we found a scriptable way to get it from Mozilla?
13:58:33 <Mic|web> I didn't have a look at it yet
13:58:45 <Mic|web> It was the webrunner (?) code iirc
13:58:51 <flo> yes
13:59:01 <flo> it was written in C++, but everything it used seemed scriptable to me
13:59:04 <Mic|web> (Songbird has also some code how to do it)
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14:07:05 * Mic|web really wonders what happened at Firefox Sync development .. the dialogs look so different/non-standard compared to the Firefox ones
14:07:28 <flo> it's a mozilla labs thing, they are more awesome! aren't they?
14:08:06 <clokep> I don't find it that different, but I'm also looking at the Sync built into Firefox 4, maybe that's more UI consistent.
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14:13:22 <Mic|web> flo: I'll make sure the gnome icon with the yellow and blue bars gets review-ready :) 
14:14:21 <Mic|web> I prefer it because it goes well with the other icons of this system (the idea is the same for all (message bubbles + smilie, but the 'implementation' depends on the design of the system)
14:15:32 <Mic|web> bye
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14:20:34 <clokep> And I think having a game plan for 0.3 would be pretty awesome flo. :)
14:20:41 <flo> :)
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14:24:13 <deOmega> GM guys...  question from a new IB user:
14:24:28 <flo> deOmega: good morning :)
14:24:35 <deOmega> on Instantbird, irc, can you get it to not load the nickserv, etc
14:24:48 <deOmega> gotta close 4 tabs
14:24:49 <clokep> Good morning.
14:25:02 <clokep> deOmega: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/209
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14:25:28 <flo> I should really finish my improved version of that add-on :)
14:25:30 <deOmega> haha... too cool
14:25:52 <deOmega> is it fine for me to send it to them or would that be a headache for them?
14:26:22 <flo> if they never ever want to see what nickserv has to say, it's fine
14:26:47 <flo> my improved version would filter the content of conversations so that the conversion appears only if the content is worth some attention
14:28:30 <clokep> Yeah, its kind of annoying when you need to reauth when you're already connected and you can't see the responses. :)
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14:29:20 <deOmega> ah...  looking forward to teh improed ersion.. and as a matter of fact, i will be using it also
14:29:20 <flo> my todo list is a mess :(
14:29:35 <flo> I will use it too! :)
14:29:42 <flo> I don't use the current version
14:29:59 <flo> and I close 5 tabs each time I reconnect
14:30:54 <deOmega> wow...  
14:31:00 <deOmega> that is intmidating
14:31:11 <deOmega> if u are noot using itthrough all of that
14:31:47 <flo> well, to be honest, there's a technical detail I don't like about the way it works :)
14:32:08 <flo> it closes the conversation after each message
14:32:37 <flo> which causes the log files to be changed after each message (there are typically 3 or 4 when you connect).
14:32:44 <flo> that creates many useless log files
14:32:55 <deOmega> ohh
14:33:12 <deOmega> If only oen had teh  option to  set logs by dates rotflol
14:33:15 <flo> maybe we should do another add-on to remove logs from nickserv conversations :)
14:35:05 <deOmega> So, how are 'we' gonna go about updating  the 300  themes that are not compatible with IB 3?
14:35:15 <deOmega> will that be  batchwork like teh first time?
14:35:34 <clokep> A lot of those probably have 0 users. :-\
14:35:57 <deOmega> True
14:35:59 <deOmega> U know
14:36:34 <deOmega> if i coulfd figure how to make them comtible easily and hae the knowledge  to uload them..........  if there is really no other option, i can take my time and do that
14:37:09 <deOmega> but last time i tried just doing teh max ersion,  it did not take away the incompatibility
14:37:56 <clokep> deOmega: You probably needed to delete your extensions cache. :)
14:38:17 <deOmega> how do i do that?
14:38:38 <deOmega> haha... back to kindergarten
14:39:31 <deOmega> I think i heard that before but really did not know that existed or how to approach it.. i think mic mentioned
14:39:40 <clokep> I don't remember the file name exactly.
14:39:47 <clokep> I'll be back in a few. I'm helping a friend.
14:39:48 <deOmega> ok
14:41:49 <clokep> deOmega: Your profile directory / extensions.cache I believe is the one.
14:41:58 <clokep> Note that you'll need to redisable any extensions that were disabled.
14:42:15 <flo> clokep: extensions.sqlite has annoyed me a lot recently. That's mozilla2-only though :)
14:42:30 <deOmega> ok.. will ecplore
14:42:36 <deOmega> explore
14:42:43 <flo> Even1: deOmega's question may be for you: 16:35:08 - deOmega: So, how are 'we' gonna go about updating the 300 themes that are not compatible with IB 3?
14:43:01 <clokep> flo: Ah, does that take the place of extensions.cache? :(
14:44:36 <flo> I don't know what was in extensions.cache :)
14:45:55 <clokep> A bunch of lines that list each ID, where its installed and last update time?
14:46:14 <clokep> And extensions.ini seems to have pretty much the same info. :-D
14:46:55 <clokep> As does extensions.rdf, although that has meta data also.
14:48:23 <deOmega> I do need to handle it as i have compatibility checker disabled.
14:48:56 <deOmega> no, am gonna hold those to oe day
14:49:34 <deOmega> lol.. ignore that last entry
15:01:17 <deOmega> thanks for your responses guys... i need to back out for abit
15:01:31 <deOmega> hae agreat day and  good luck on the updated addon Flo :)
15:01:46 <flo> thanks
15:01:50 <clokep> BYe.
15:01:55 <flo> talk to you later :)
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15:10:32 <Even1> deOmega: I don't have a damn idea about this. I suppose it will recquire to adapt our current script to detect if the addons already exists and in this case to create a new version instead of creating a whole new addon.
15:10:50 <Even1> deOmega: hopefully, it won't need to much modifications to the original upload script
15:10:57 <Even1> *too
15:11:14 <flo> Even1: can't we just change the maxVersion on the website?
15:12:08 <flo> that may not work for the themes that are still in the sandbox though. If I remember well remora doesn't offer updates for them :(
15:12:14 <Even1> If there is no risk of new incompatibilities breaking them on Ib 0.3 when it was working "fine" on 0.2, then it is possible indeed.
15:12:49 <Even1> Hmm, you might be wrong about updates on sandbox extensions.
15:12:50 <flo> ah, you wanted us to create new screenshots using a newer rendering engine?
15:13:17 <Even1> I think it don't update you to a sandbox extension if the version if different but if it's only a change in compatibility version, it might work.
15:13:25 <clokep> I don't think updates are offered, but compatibility updates might be applied?
15:13:34 <Even1> flo: yes, it was what I had in mind.
15:13:53 <Even1> clokep: my point exactly
15:14:27 <Even1> clokep: thanks for the clarification ^^
15:14:43 <clokep> Even1: Its just a guess though. I'm not positive. :)
15:15:37 <flo> I fear whoever will try that will get depressed by some underlying stupidity :-/
15:26:29 <clokep> Yeah, remora is kind of bleh.
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15:36:43 * flo has just found a starred email dating back from April 2008 of some users that requested support for IRC
15:36:59 <flo> I guess it's a bit too late to reply with "sorry for the late response" :-/
15:37:30 <clokep> Yeah, 2.5 years is pretty long. :-\
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16:05:07 <clokep> Class, be back later.
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17:06:36 <flo> clokep: https://hg.instantbird.org/ satisfied? :)
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17:28:35 <Mic> flo: while your at it, could you fix bug 1 as well?
17:28:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 nor, P5, ---, idechix, NEW, Make bugzilla.instantbird.org look like other instantbird websites
17:28:42 <Mic> :P
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18:10:09 <flo> Mic: it's not assigned to me :-P
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19:21:01 <deOmega> man, i feel so sorry for the songbird team.  As if they really cannot win
19:22:45 <deOmega> I believe that teh downside to this field, is that someone out there always think they can do it better...whether or not they truly can
19:23:42 <deOmega> BUt do they contribute?  NO.. they will typically not have the time... but yet enough time to criticize yours
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19:59:13 <clokep> deOmega: What was the songbird comment?
20:01:33 <clokep> And yes flo! Thanks. :) you closed bug 457! :-D
20:01:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, hg.instantbird.org needs new styling
20:01:52 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 457 to FIXED.
20:02:19 <deOmega> clokep: hi...  no specif comment that comes to mind.. just overall impression over the years following its development
20:02:26 <clokep> Oh OK.
20:02:42 <clokep> Was wondering if something had come up.
20:04:40 <deOmega> no
20:04:44 <deOmega> but i do have something
20:04:50 <deOmega> This guy messaging me usng IB
20:05:04 <deOmega> and i have  it set to where i see teh  senders font and color
20:05:13 <deOmega> he is using pspersheet style
20:05:35 <deOmega> somehow  when his messages come through,   they are well indented
20:05:43 <deOmega> like this.
20:05:51 <deOmega>                      hi everyone
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20:12:44 <deOmega> Ignore my cry.. apparently the problem was  some of my 'tweaking' in a theme i  messed with
20:12:58 <clokep> deOmega: That's OK! :) Glad to know its working.
20:13:00 <deOmega> I think i will   stop 'trying' as i am often running into  incidents LOL
20:15:09 <clokep> Trying is OK as long as you're learning.
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20:35:58 <IM> Can Instantbird be used to chat "across" IM services?
20:37:04 <IM> that is, can I sign on to Yahoo via Instantbird and chat with a user on AIM?
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20:43:33 <DGMurdockIII> 2(IM2): yes
20:44:00 <clokep> IM, uh no you can't do that.
20:44:20 <clokep> You would need to sign into AIM to chat to a user on AIM.
20:44:29 <clokep> there's certain web services that allow things like that though.
20:44:56 <IM> thanks, I've read about those services
20:45:42 <IM> so, the benefit of Instantbird (and similar) is that I can see my various chat accounts in one place
20:45:45 <DGMurdockIII> 2(IM2): but you can add a icq users on AIM and talk to him
20:45:57 <DGMurdockIII> 2(IM2): yes
20:46:16 <DGMurdockIII> right now at least
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20:46:47 <IM> thanks, I was hoping Instantbird would relieve me of having to sign up for each different service
20:47:05 <clokep> IM: No Instant messaging program does that to my knowledge.
20:47:10 <clokep> Unless the networks are linked.
20:47:21 <clokep> I.e. MSN and Yahoo are linked, AIM and ICQ.
20:49:42 <DGMurdockIII> google talk is link with aim
20:50:05 <DGMurdockIII> Google upgraded its Gmail integrated chat to include AOL Instant Messenger chat capability. This allows Gmail users to sign into the AIM chat service and communicate with any AIM user while still being signed on to the Google Talk service. The Google Talk gadget and client have not been upgraded to enable this feature yet, and no announcement has been made as to when it will be made available.
20:50:19 <clokep> Only via their GMail client, which actually signs you into AIM, you still need an AIM account.
20:50:39 <clokep> Right, but you stilll need an AIM screenname.
20:52:02 <clokep> IM There's transports to go between Jabber and most services, but not one I know of for AIM to Yahoo. :-\ Sorry.
20:52:23 <IM> I was hoping for an open source alternative to be able to instant message AIM users without actually having an AIM account
20:52:59 <clokep> IM: an "open source alternative" is there a closed source that can currently do that? Can /any/ IM program currently do that?
20:54:24 <clokep> Sorry to sound kind of surprised, I've just never heard of any program doing that. :)
20:55:07 <IM> Yeah, my full nickname didn't show up:  "IM Noob"
20:55:36 <clokep> Spaces aren't allowed on IRC. :)
20:56:08 <clokep> You can use "/nick <newnick>" to change it.
20:56:23 <clokep> And if you have an example of a program that let's you do what you want we can look into it?
20:58:32 <IM> tried the slash nick thing a couple times but got error message
20:58:55 <IM> anyway, I only looked for open source messaging
20:59:23 <IM> don't know whether any software did/does what I was looking for
20:59:39 <clokep> Ah OK, so you don't know of any that do it? :) Yeah, I can't think a way it could do it since the networks are different and you'd have to somehow be logged into both.
20:59:57 <IM> I just don't want AIM running on my computer
21:00:20 <clokep> Well if you have an AIM screenname you can sign into both that and yahoo at once?
21:00:37 <clokep> It doesn't actually require the AIM program to be installed, but it requires that you connect to their network.
21:01:09 <IM> that I understand
21:01:30 <clokep> OK. :)
21:03:00 <IM> 'preciate your help clokep and DGM's input
21:03:10 <IM> signing off now and back to the drawing board
21:03:38 <clokep> IM: No problem. :) Sorry we could be more useful. I don't think it can be done though. Why not just get an AIM screen name? They're free and I don't get any spam or anything.
21:05:07 <IM> cynical old fart trying to minimize my online identity footprint
21:05:51 <clokep> Ah, understandable. :) Just make other people switch then. ;)
21:07:32 <IM> sitting in my chair snickering ... 'bye
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