#instantbird log on 09 03 2010

All times are UTC.

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01:08:33 <clokep> Mic: Some things about Invisible for Gtalk: http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/5828 and Pidgin plugin to support: http://fahhem.com/pidgin/
01:16:23 <clokep> Also http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/4509 has a patch for adding it into the protocol plug-in.
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06:10:16 <Mic> good morning
06:10:34 <flo> hi :)
06:22:54 <Mic> clokep: that's for the information on invisibility 
06:23:27 <Mic> I wonder what such things are about "We will not support the Google Talk invisibility, because it requires using their shared status stuff which we have no interest in supporting."
06:23:45 <Mic> If there's an actual reason or if it is just some not-free and open zealotry
06:29:59 <flo> it's free
06:30:20 <flo> the apparently the pidgin developers don't want to make google talk diverge from the generic standard XMPP implementation
06:44:48 <Mic> I could imagine that Google Talk (like any other Google Thing) has quite a lot of users so maybe it would make sense to support these extensions of the standard
06:45:00 <Mic> (except for Google Wave ofcourse;)
06:47:29 <Mic> bye
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07:03:21 <flo> Mic: I think it would make sense for Instantbird. But probably not for Pidgin :-P.
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10:49:41 <flo> ah, I hate it when I close an instantbird tab while I was looking at Firefox on the other screen. Just for that I would like to have an eyes tracker :-D.
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11:12:36 <Mic|web> Firefox Panorama / Tab Candy is a great idea
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12:23:10 <clokep> flo: I do that sometimes too. :( Or I start flipping through all my conversations instead of my Fx tabs.
12:23:37 <clokep> flo: Is it possible to override methods when we do the protocol overrides? I.e. can we have GTalk inherit everything from XMPP but then customize parts of it?
12:23:57 <flo> XMPP is implemented in C currently
12:24:21 <flo> so you can override methods of the XPCOM objects, but that won't change much of the behavior
12:24:47 <flo> I think I'll try to disable the "Join Chat" feature for facebook accounts
12:29:05 <clokep> Hmmm, yeah I know the C --> JS thing always causes a problem. :(
12:29:20 <clokep> I was hoping it'd be able to just like add a method to the override to override it.
12:29:39 <flo> that would work
12:29:57 <flo> if the thing you want to override is only usable from XPCOM
12:30:11 <clokep> I guess its a question of whether we can get to the method we need to?
12:30:25 <flo> what do you want to override?
12:30:44 <clokep> http://developer.pidgin.im/attachment/ticket/4509/gtalk-sharedstatus-2.6.6.patch
12:31:08 <clokep> I'm pretty sure that can't be done in JS though. :)
12:31:17 <flo> why do you call that a "method" ;)
12:31:20 <clokep> Since it plays with how things are done directly in the protocol.
12:31:21 <flo> ?
12:31:59 <clokep> Well I hadn't quite looked at the whole patch, I thought it just was changing a method to return a different value. :) My bad.
12:32:06 <flo> I'm glad I'm not going to attempt to parse some XML with C code :)
12:32:36 <flo> XMPP is a good candidate for a reimplementation in JS
12:32:46 <flo> there are several JS libraries available for XMPP
12:33:37 <clokep> There's XMPP4Moz. ;)
12:33:46 <clokep> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3632/
12:33:56 <flo> It's GPL'ed
12:34:06 <clokep> Oh, boo.
12:37:05 <clokep> IRC and XMPP both have real RFC specs though? That should make it "easier" to re implement them.
12:39:11 <flo> yes, the specifications are public :)
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12:39:43 <flo> for XMPP it's a bit more complicated than a single RFC. There are lots of extensions, and clients decide which extensions they want to implement
12:40:03 <clokep> I think IRC has been extended a few times as well.
12:41:28 <flo> not in the same proportions. I remember only 2 or 3 RFCs
12:41:46 <flo> well, if you consider all the mIRC strange things as valid extensions, there are lots more
12:42:02 <clokep> Hmmm...OK. :) Well I'm going to focus more on Twitter right now, then maybe look at IRC.
12:42:51 <Mic|web> flo: how are you planning to fix the MUC problem of Facebook?
12:43:41 <flo> "canJoinChats: function() false," should do, doesn't it?
12:44:03 <Mic|web> In the override protocol?
12:44:09 <Mic|web> And that just works?
12:44:50 <flo> after the js-proto merge, probably.
12:45:01 <flo> I remember there was a problem before, but I don't remember what it was
12:45:17 <Mic|web> I filed a bug not long ago
12:45:21 <Mic|web> There was another issue iirc
12:45:26 <Mic|web> Let me check ..
12:45:49 <Mic|web> ah, offline messages!
12:46:00 <Mic|web> And it's bug 464
12:46:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=464 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Impossible to change 'extra info' with an override protocol
12:50:09 <clokep> You can do funky things by flipping that protocol expose pref we were discusisng last night. :)
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12:50:41 <flo> clokep: you have just replaced your conversation with a bug report? ;)
12:50:57 <clokep> flo: Possibly. :)
12:50:59 <Mic|web> :D
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12:51:38 <flo> clokep: it's fun only the first time ;)
12:52:59 <clokep> flo: I'm sure! Was testing whether the pref was checked every time or not.
12:53:04 <Mic|web> flo: canJoinChat is defined as readonly attribute on the purpleIAccount interface
12:53:16 <Mic|web> Seems not that it is a function on protocols
12:53:42 <flo> Mic|web: how does that matter?
12:53:58 <clokep> Probably because certain server can support chats while others might not for the same protocol?
12:54:12 <flo> the purpleIAccount is the interface that should be implemented by the object the protocol creates.
12:54:23 <flo> the protocol plugin can put whatever it wants as the implementation of the account
12:55:07 <Mic|web> ie you can implement the attribute as js function?
12:55:19 <flo> it's already how it's done
12:55:39 <clokep> Mic|web have you seen http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/file/1ab7ebdabfff/purple/purplexpcom/src/jsProtoHelper.jsm ?
12:55:40 <Mic|web> If I knew that I would have tried already .. :D
12:55:45 <flo> Mic|web: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/jsProtoHelper.jsm#120
12:56:04 <flo> and line 148
12:56:44 <flo> by default (= if you haven't implemented anything in the protocol plugin JS code) the prototype of the account objects forwards that to this._base, which is the C++ implementation
12:56:45 * instantbot mumbles something about c++ being evil
12:56:45 <sumobot> c++ is e-- ah, nevermind.
12:59:01 <Mic|web> ok
12:59:38 <flo> by the way, let's try :)
13:00:03 <flo> I hope I have a Facebook account on my debug profile
13:01:06 <clokep> You don't have like multiples of every account for testing? :P
13:01:24 <flo> not all on the same profile
13:02:07 <flo> hmm, there's nothing about the account in the facebook override
13:03:21 <Mic|web> Does this link work for you: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleAccount.cpp#843 ?
13:03:29 <Mic|web> I get a truncated page at line 821 ..
13:03:45 <flo> isn't it the real end of the file?
13:04:19 <Mic|web> hmm, maybe ... but then how did I get that linenumber ..
13:05:53 <flo> there used to be more code in that file, before the split between purpleAccount and purpleAccountBase
13:07:42 <Mic|web> ok, then from memory:
13:09:14 <Mic|web> I  think I put both these pieces offline messages and MUC support into one bug because they were from from a structure called 'purple_info' or 'extraInfo' as in the summary?
13:09:33 <Mic|web> *were read
13:09:47 <flo> that's part of libpurple. It's deep down the stack. At the C level.
13:09:56 <Mic|web> And I assumed it would be necessary to set different values there
13:10:40 <flo> I've got something to do now and I'll need a JS trick that I've got to look up to do the canJoinChat example.
13:11:05 <flo> I'll be back in less than an hour.
13:11:15 <Mic|web> bye
13:26:15 * flo is back
13:26:57 <clokep> 15 minutes hardly counts as less than an hour. :P
13:27:34 <flo> yeah, it was tempting to take a nap before coming back to the office ;)
13:28:02 <flo> I expected to have to wait in line for some paperwork, but finally I just had to drop them in a special mailbox in that building :)
13:29:01 <Mic|web> wb
13:36:37 <flo> there's a lot of room for improvement in the theming of vertical tabs on Mac ;)
13:40:03 <clokep> flo: I'm sure. Some of my friends here at school have Macs, I might steal one at some point and work on it. :)
13:40:27 <flo> hmm, changing that canJoinChat thing isn't as easier as it seemed (or my JS skills have decreased during the summer... or both)
13:41:11 <flo> *easy
13:42:56 <flo> crashed :-S
13:43:43 <clokep> I'll be back in a few minutes.
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13:46:59 <Mic|web> wb? :P
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13:51:16 <Mic|web> bye
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13:54:20 <flo> ok, it works
13:54:28 <flo> the code is really horrible though :(
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13:56:09 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/370
13:57:13 <clokep> Haha, sorry Mic: I put my computer in sleep, then undocked it and it loaded Windows for like 1 seconds. :P
13:57:41 <clokep> flo: That's pretty hackish.
13:58:10 <flo> yes
13:58:13 <clokep> Wouldn't it be better to make a facebookAccount object and then have getAccount make an instance of that or something?
13:58:21 <flo> I'm not sure if it's worth adding a clean API for it
13:58:46 <flo> that's more or less what happens :)
13:59:47 <clokep> Mmhmm. I mean its not /that/ messay, it all happens in one place at least. :)
14:00:11 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/jsProtoHelper.jsm#378
14:01:17 <clokep> Yeah, I guess I was thinking line 385 could be replaced sort of.
14:01:36 <flo> I could also have copied that method and just added a line between ligne 381 and 382
14:08:22 <Mic> hmm, would have duplicating the rest of the method really been better?
14:08:25 <Mic> I don't think so
14:08:54 <flo> different kind of ugliness I guess
14:09:23 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/371 maybe this is a bit better
14:10:14 <Mic> clokep. I looked up the warning about the update server a while ago
14:10:45 <Mic> I think was something about being vulnerable to some kind of attack
14:10:45 <clokep> Mic: What'd you find?
14:11:19 <Mic> http://secunia.com/advisories/cve_reference/CVE-2009-3555/
14:11:25 <Mic> Something like that
14:12:20 <Mic> I'll put that into a comment and be off again
14:12:22 <Mic> cu
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14:19:16 <clokep> That page is pretty cryptic. :P
14:20:39 <clokep> flo: http://googlewavedev.blogspot.com/2010/09/wave-open-source-next-steps-wave-in-box.html
14:21:39 <skeledrew1> clokep: just got the screenie: http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5559/ezu27tmp.png
14:21:39 <skeledrew1> as you can see, the scrollbar is half hidden, but it could've been fully hidden also. and this means i can see the participants gripper in IRC...
14:22:53 <clokep> skeledrew1: Do you mean "can't" see the participants gripper?
14:23:45 <skeledrew1> yes
14:23:49 <skeledrew1> :)
14:23:54 <clokep> The window is too small skeledrew1. I'll brb. Need to try something
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14:24:22 <skeledrew1> i'll be heading to class now...
14:24:27 <clokep> I'm in class. :P
14:24:33 <skeledrew1> lolz
14:24:39 <skeledrew1> lucky you
14:24:41 <clokep> I can do it even without my extension.
14:24:47 <skeledrew1> i'd get crucified...
14:24:58 <clokep> You just need to make it a lot narrower before it occurs.
14:25:06 <clokep> Eh, we're doing a MATLAB Tutorial that I know everything of already.
14:25:13 <skeledrew1> kk
14:25:14 <clokep> And I need another line for a scrollbar. :)
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14:25:52 <clokep> skeledrew1: I'll look into it and see if I can make it so the tabs get smaller or something as well, but I'm not sure.
14:26:12 <skeledrew1> it's not a tab issue
14:26:14 <skeledrew1> i think
14:26:26 <skeledrew1> more like the message pane
14:26:30 <clokep> What's the "expected" behavior?
14:27:17 <skeledrew1> the message window should shrink properly as i drag the tab gripper to the right
14:27:27 <skeledrew1> am off to class
14:27:29 <skeledrew1> bbl
14:27:39 <clokep> And when its too small to shrink farther? It shouldn't let you make it smaller or it should crop?
14:30:39 <flo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357725
14:31:21 * clokep feels like there should be an Instantbird tracking bug. ;)
14:36:36 <flo> I wondered if I should create one
14:36:48 <flo> the only real reason I've seen was "to make like Songbird and a few others"
14:41:00 <clokep> Possibly, I think it'd just be good to see what issues we have with the current mozilla system.
14:41:16 <clokep> Also from my point of view, since I'm not you :P, it would help me realize what's going on more? Kind of.
14:43:31 <flo> "realize what's going on"?
14:43:59 <clokep> With Instantbird, see what's blocking changes or keeping it from moving forward. Just an idea though, don't feel its necessary to implement. :)
14:44:28 <flo> I'm cc'ed to all the bugs that I've found and that matter for Instantbird
14:44:44 <flo> I don't think having them depend on a specific bug would change the way I see them
14:44:49 <clokep> flo: I've been using colorize, its pretty nice. But all my friends come up similar colors. :P
14:45:06 <clokep> Right, but I'm saying it'd allow others to find them easily, if anyone cares enough.
14:45:10 <flo> they all have the same first name? :-D
14:45:33 <clokep> No!
14:45:44 <flo> I'm not sure if that query is relevant: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=cc%3Aqueze
14:46:25 <clokep> That's a lot!
14:47:02 <clokep> Does colorize go off display name, user name or alias?
14:47:05 <flo> there's also a huge difference between "we are blocked by it" and "we would like to see this fixed"
14:47:20 <flo> whatever is displayed in the tab title I think
14:47:36 <flo> it probably takes only the first word
14:48:23 * clokep was wondering how it would look to colorize the actual tab w/ it as well.
14:48:33 <flo> some of these bugs have nothing to do with instantbird
14:48:47 <flo> they were some browser bugs I followed before starting instantbird
14:49:13 <clokep> Like Yahoo mail mailto: handler not having a favicon? ;)
14:49:34 <flo> that's totally uninteresting
14:49:46 <clokep> Haha you're CC'd on it.
14:50:26 <flo> yeah, I worked in that area of the code (protocol handlers) when I was intern at Mozilla Corporation
14:51:40 <clokep> Ah, I see.
14:51:55 <clokep> I usually just vote for bugs. I have a pretty weird collection.
14:52:20 <flo> I vote for some of them
14:52:48 <flo> cc'ed doesn't mean "I'd like to see this fixed", sometimes it is "I need to know if someone ever touches this"
14:53:26 <clokep> Something like: "I'm depending on this code, but this bug is going to change functionality so I want to know if it goes through"?
14:53:39 <flo> yeah, for example
14:53:44 <flo> I also watch a few components
14:54:34 <clokep> Ah, I see.
14:54:39 <flo> page.info@firefox.bugs because that's where I started, build-config/mailnews (= comm-central bugs), bugs related to the crash reporter
14:58:10 <clokep> Ah I have to go, lecture is starting. :)
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15:03:20 <flo> tymerkaev: by the way, have you replied to the Russian mac users who reported the bug you fixed? :)
15:03:33 <tymerkaev> no
15:04:00 <tymerkaev> I never seen that mac uses so big size of UI items
15:04:20 <tymerkaev> probably it will looks so big with en-US locale too
15:04:34 <flo> it does
15:07:46 <flo> tymerkaev: http://queze.net/goinfre/account-settings.png with the en-US locale
15:08:22 <tymerkaev> flo: yep
15:08:49 <tymerkaev> I'm already says you that Instantbird using bigger fonts with ru locale
15:09:04 <tymerkaev> I don't know why
15:09:08 <flo> it's not bigger on the screenshot
15:09:24 <flo> the issue we used to have (isn't it fixed?) was only for conversation content
15:09:36 <tymerkaev> and for about window
15:10:41 <flo> that's not related to the bug the guy reported anyway
15:11:46 <tymerkaev> I have shorten it like 'Advanced Options' to 'Advanced'
15:12:04 <tymerkaev> you may do it for en-US
15:12:28 <flo> There's no problem in the en-US version
15:23:28 * flo activates Priority Inbox
15:24:10 <tymerkaev> gmail?
15:24:13 <flo> yeah
15:28:13 <flo> hmm, that things puts all the stared emails at the top
15:28:29 <flo> it won't be easy to procrastinate without feeling bad
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15:56:03 <clokep> Bleh Instantbird crashed on me. :p
15:56:17 <flo> do you have the crash report id?
15:57:07 <clokep> No, how do you get that?
15:58:03 <flo> in the JS console, openDialog("about:crashes")
16:03:52 <clokep> Maybe we should add a menu item for that? ;)
16:04:01 <clokep> http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/index/bp-4442cc9a-476c-4bc0-a6bb-f53ae2100903
16:04:22 <clokep> I've gotten it one or two other times also after coming back from sleep
16:04:51 <flo> I hope this one will disappear after the libpurple upgrade
16:05:03 <clokep> Ah, its one you've seen before?
16:05:11 <flo> it's the most common currently
16:05:16 <flo> we have had it for month
16:05:16 <flo> s
16:05:25 <clokep> Only on 0.3a1pre?
16:05:29 <flo> I checked-in a potential fix (advised by pidgin developers) but it didn't help
16:05:41 <clokep> That's unfortunate, hopefully the update will help then! :-D
16:05:46 <flo> yeah
16:05:57 <flo> I would also like to have a more general solution
16:06:07 <flo> that pattern of crash bug is so common that I'd like to avoid it completely
16:06:43 <flo> basically, the protocol plugins need to create some socket/connexions, they add timers to fire timeout callbacks and cancel the socket if nothing happens on it.
16:07:06 <flo> then for whatever reason the account is disconnected and all the memory related to the connection is free'd
16:07:43 <flo> an finally, the timer fires, and the timeout callback does some random stuff with some random memory (it's already been free'd and reused for something else)
16:08:59 <flo> if only we could add a way to identify which account a timer belongs to, we could cleanup all the leftover timers (which should be removed by libpurple when the account is disconnected, if there's no bug in the plugin code) when the account is marked as disconnected
16:09:27 <clokep> I understood about half of that. :)
16:09:56 <flo> if we want the protection to be super efficient, we just need to make a separate process for each account.
16:10:07 <flo> and kill the process each time the account is disconnected
16:10:16 <clokep> Oh, that'd be snazzy.
16:10:33 <flo> a libpurple crash would become a simple connection error in the error console and on the account.
16:10:47 <flo> no more memory corruption
16:10:49 <flo> and stability++ :)
16:10:54 <clokep> Making libpurple a plug in essentially.
16:11:08 <flo> that's a way to get rid of the GPL :-P
16:11:34 <flo> but yeah, if I manage to reuse the OOPP code of Firefox... :)
16:11:36 <clokep> Is libpurple GPL only? Is that like...OK that we use it in Instantbird?
16:11:56 <flo> yeah, and Instantbird becomes GPL'ed because of this
16:14:09 <tymerkaev> flo; are you doing to release 0.2.1 soon with new locales?
16:14:09 <clokep> Ah.
16:16:06 <flo> tymerkaev: I don't know
16:16:18 <tymerkaev> lol
16:16:20 <flo> We could also just add a few locales to the existing 0.2
16:17:20 <clokep> Oh, hey. Am I the only person that uses a :-x emoticon? :)
16:17:33 <flo> your friends probably do it too
16:17:45 <flo> emoticons are a bit like words, when you see them a lot, you start using them
16:18:01 <clokep> Haha, its part of AIM I know. Just wondering cause its not in the Instantbird set.
16:19:32 <clokep> :-x and :-* are two I find the current set is missing. :P As well as a few text codes that I'm used to using.
16:19:43 <flo> that means neither Idechix nor myself use it ;)
16:20:19 <clokep> Haha, fair enough. I wasn't sure if they're actually used or if its a protocol thing or a geographic thing or what.
16:20:21 <clokep> I'll file a bug.
16:22:24 <clokep> So flo, right now buddies are manually colored and stuff, I was wondering if it would be better to add a class to them? I think it'd let you do some "neater" stuff?
16:22:54 <clokep> Does that sound reasonable or?
16:27:11 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 488 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
16:27:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=488 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Missing Commonly Used Emoticon
16:29:40 <flo> clokep: not sure of what this means exactly
16:30:03 <clokep> flo: Which part?
16:30:08 <clokep> (And should I CC idechix)
16:30:13 <flo> some neater stuff
16:30:19 <flo> for the emoticons, cc idechix
16:30:56 <clokep> Well like it would allow changing the formatting of every single instance of clokep at once.
16:31:07 <clokep> Or if I mouse over clokep it'll highlight all messages by me, etc.
16:31:13 <clokep> But in CSS instead of finding every elment. ;)
16:34:08 <clokep> Class time.
16:34:13 <flo> I'm not sure of how that would work.
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17:38:20 <flo> have a nice week-end all! :)
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18:01:35 <clokep> flo: Got that crash again. It seems to occur when I switch networks while sleeping if tha thelps.
18:02:53 * hicham wonders how we can switch networks if we are sleeping
18:03:18 <clokep> And I'll explain my classes thing another time. :P
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18:40:46 <Mic> clokep, flo: by putting a class on the buddy e.g. a sanitized name or a hash of it (whatever is necessary to make it a valid class name) and inserting the associated stylesheet into the DOM tree
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18:41:24 <Mic> That's what I had in mind at least for "dimming other conversations"
18:43:29 <Mic> in which for example the stylesheet of all buddies that you're not interested would be changed so that their messages are be greyed out and only the people you're interested in stand out
18:43:48 <Mic> I guess clokep's suggestion was to have something similar for the buddy names
18:44:27 <Mic> -stylesheet +class-style
18:45:29 <Mic> clokep: I'd say file a bug about it if you like. I think it could be pretty useful to have destinct classes for each buddy
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20:00:28 <Mic> Something new: "Always on Top" extension at https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/262/
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20:01:16 <hicham> is it os specific ?
20:01:22 <Mic> Yes, Windows only
20:02:10 <Mic> *ix desktops most likely have their window manager specific switch anyways
20:02:20 <hicham> Linux have this option in most WMs
20:05:16 <hicham> I am wondering if a custom build of firetray for Instantbird is welcome to AIO
20:06:04 <hicham> I guess I should wait for flo
20:06:05 <Mic> I wouldn't know why anything shouldn't be welcome there, as long as it respects the rules
20:06:16 <hicham> what are the rules ?
20:08:38 <Mic> "... the AIO Contribution does not violate any applicable law, regulation or ordinance, nor infringe or misappropriate the rights of any third party. "
20:08:42 <Mic> Such stuff :D
20:09:01 <Mic> (Excerpt from the developer agreement)
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20:22:52 <hicham> firetray is GPLv2
20:28:12 <Mic> Is this a problem?
20:28:24 <Mic> well beside 'being GPL' ;)
20:31:58 <hicham> of course not
20:32:42 <hicham> does IB-0.2 support xulrunner-1.9.1 ?
20:33:35 <Mic> Ib is based on Gecko 1.9.2
20:34:14 <hicham> yes, I know
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20:59:10 <Mic> bye
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