All times are UTC.
00:27:01 <-- iBool has left #instantbird () 00:55:19 <-- clokep_afk has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 00:57:57 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 03:02:26 <-- hicham has quit (Quit: اÙسÙا٠عÙÙÙÙ ) 03:23:46 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03:28:39 --> tymerkaev-afk has joined #instantbird 03:56:17 <-- tymerkaev-afk has quit (Client exited) 04:49:57 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::) 04:50:36 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 06:34:22 --> tymerkaev-afk has joined #instantbird 06:34:28 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 06:35:44 * tymerkaev-afk is now known as tymerkaev 07:23:49 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 07:23:57 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 07:24:12 <Mic> morning 07:25:35 <Mic> Morian: do you still do generate these graphs displaying activity of and between people? 08:49:19 --> flo has joined #instantbird 08:49:19 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 08:49:46 <flo> Good morning! :) 08:51:55 <Mic> Release party tonight? 08:52:24 <Mic> With free (as in free beer) beer? 08:59:52 <flo> tomorrow there will be a small party with fireworks near the Eiffel tower ;) 09:07:55 <Mic> I guess on Champs Elysees? With a military parade or so? 09:08:48 <flo> that's in the morning 09:08:49 <Mic> haha, that's even true 09:09:22 <Mic> Wikipedia (not a trustworthy source, i know) says it's the national DAY 09:09:24 <Mic> *day 09:09:49 <flo> yep :) 09:18:17 <flo> ahah, the "clibpoard" typo has been in all release notes since 0.2 alpha 1! 09:24:13 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 09:59:49 --> Even has joined #instantbird 09:59:49 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 10:01:02 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 10:11:30 <Mic> oh, a "new version" window 10:11:58 <Mic> Seems that everything is working fine so far ;) 10:27:34 --> patrickjdempsey has joined #instantbird 10:53:11 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 10:54:34 <clokep> flo: Re the clipboard typo, you need to turn on spell check in whatever program you write release notes in. :P 10:56:36 <Mic> Notepad doesn't have a spell checker:P 10:57:00 <clokep> Stop living in the '90s. ;) 10:58:07 <Even> ^^ 10:58:26 <Even> Why should he? It's a good period. 10:58:39 <Even> He won't have all the cool technologies we do have but... 10:58:40 <Even> :) 10:58:49 <clokep> And he'll have weird clothes and bad pop music. ;) 10:59:02 <clokep> But I suppose its better than the '80s... 10:59:18 <Even> Well, about this. Classic was already there so there's still good music to listen. 10:59:49 <Even> ^^ 11:00:13 <Even> That's a good period for music in France those years. 11:00:30 <Even> Our best singers were of those times. 11:00:34 <Even> Maybe even a little before. 11:00:45 <Even> Now we have crap and crap and... let's see... Crap ! 11:01:13 <clokep> I'm not very familiar with music that's come out of France I don't think... 11:01:22 <Even> Yeah, I suppose :) 11:01:27 <clokep> England sure, but France... 11:01:40 <Even> But we do have world class singers in this period. 11:01:57 <clokep> Although Daft Punk is from France, no? :P 11:02:31 <Even> Yep it is. 11:02:45 <Even> They started at Versailles. 11:03:26 <Even> In just fo the fun, I need to add the date : 1993. 11:03:34 <Even> (thanks to wikipedia ^^) 11:03:57 <Even> But in fact, now that I'm looking for dates, our good singers were before the 80's. 11:04:06 <clokep> Hah, fair enough. 11:04:11 <Even> Some still there on those dates but they almost all started before that :P 11:04:20 <clokep> Mmhmm. 11:04:33 <clokep> Its OK, my friend all make fun of me for listening to the music their dad's listen to. ;) 11:05:18 <Even> Well, I do think it is much better to listen what you like to listen even if people are laughing at you than to listen music you don't really like because others do. 11:06:22 <Even> There are a lot of people out there that don't even know why everyone is listening to the crap they listen but won't change because the others don't change too :P 11:06:55 <clokep> Hahah. Yes I'm not a fan of a lot of the current music. Not sure if the same crap is popular in France/Europe as the US or not... 11:06:56 <Even> When putted like that it sounds awkward but it really do happen. 11:07:15 <Even> Well, I'll say one thing to you : US commercials are good. 11:07:20 <clokep> Its the zombie effect. ;) 11:07:33 <Even> Well, as a matter of fact, yes it is. 11:07:48 <Even> And your commercial are specialists in creating those effects. 11:08:05 <Even> Don't really know how they do that, but... really. They always amaze me with this. 11:09:19 <Even> It's a bit sad when you think that it is those same people that are explaining to us they are protecting creation and imagination. 11:09:28 <Even> When you see how and what they sell... 11:09:47 * clokep thinks Instantbird should figure out how they do it... 11:10:19 <Even> Well, I would rather prefer seeing people starting to use Instantbird because they actually choose to by coniction. 11:10:23 <Even> *conviction 11:21:39 <clokep> True. Once 0.2 is released I'll try to convince some people/post on Twitter/etc. 11:27:56 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 11:30:08 * clokep is off to work. 11:51:40 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 11:57:08 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 12:16:39 <tymerkaev> flo: uk ready 12:26:52 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 12:29:04 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 12:29:34 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 12:33:58 <clokep_work> Is everything good w/ that Wave from last night or is there more to be done on it? 12:36:15 <flo> I moved that to an HTML page already 12:37:42 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 12:42:47 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 12:46:01 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 12:49:22 <skeledrew_dev> :) 12:49:26 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 12:49:44 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 12:50:13 * skeledrew_dev is testing a smiley package... 12:50:31 <skeledrew_dev> ;) :( :p 12:50:39 <skeledrew_dev> crap 12:50:43 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 12:52:51 <flo> is "crap" an emoticon in your package? :-P 12:53:12 <skeledrew> lolz 12:53:19 <skeledrew> nope :) 12:53:23 <clokep_work> I don't want to know what that'd look like. ;) 12:53:27 <skeledrew> but it's not working :( 12:53:42 <skeledrew> wow 12:53:46 <skeledrew> not cool 12:53:53 <skeledrew> MSN smileys suck 12:54:37 <skeledrew> sticking with the defoult till my package works 12:55:09 <skeledrew> trying to figure why the smileys aren't loading at all 12:55:37 <skeledrew> **default 12:56:15 <Mic> skeledrew: do you know these? 12:56:16 <Mic> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/214 12:57:12 <skeledrew> hmm. interesting 12:57:43 <skeledrew> i'll give it a test run 12:59:42 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 13:00:36 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 13:00:44 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 13:04:44 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 13:04:46 <Morian> Mic: Yes I still can generate these graphs, but I don't work on this project these days (and I don't know if I will work on it one day ...) 13:05:00 <Mic> skeledrew: they might not be compatible with the latest nightlies 13:05:24 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 13:06:24 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 13:06:42 <skeledrew> animated smileys??? 13:06:47 <skeledrew> the horror! 13:07:05 <skeledrew> Mic: i don't do nightlies 13:07:31 <Mic> They're just animated when shown, after that they stay as they are 13:07:32 <skeledrew> so the setup is always constant 13:07:56 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah. but they still take extra RAM 13:08:09 <Mic> hmm, most likely yes 13:08:31 <skeledrew> that's why i'm converting the Pidgin default set 13:08:57 <skeledrew> not sure where i went wrong with the packaging... 13:27:18 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> 0.3aPre1, eth? 13:27:27 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird () 13:27:29 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 13:27:35 <Mic> Maybe we should change this "Download Instantbird Now! Click to start downloading Instantbird 0.1.3.1 for Linux" to "Download 0.2 later" ;) 13:27:43 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 13:27:49 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 13:29:09 <flo> Mic: ? 13:33:51 <Mic> I wasn't serious, even though someone might download 0.1.3 just now, they'll receive the update anyways 13:34:04 <tymerkaev> flo: ping 13:34:16 <flo> pong 13:34:35 <tymerkaev> http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/uk/repos/ 13:34:43 <flo> Mic: they will think "wow, they made such a great improvement so quickly" 13:34:43 <tymerkaev> mostly done 13:35:11 <Mic> They'll be the more disappointed when there's no such update NEXT WEEK ;) 13:36:14 <flo> ahah 14:02:14 <Mic> Splitting the release in five could get us to 0.5 quickly ;) 14:02:31 <Mic> even with some 'intermediate' steps ;) 14:02:49 <flo> roll a dice each to you release, and that gives you the version number increment ;) 14:02:54 <flo> *each time 14:03:04 <clokep_work> Just change to base three, the next release would be 1.0. ;) 14:03:16 <clokep_work> flo: A D20 I hope. :P 14:08:11 * clokep_work is working on my first binding. 14:09:14 <Mic> Is it .. textboxes in tables? 14:09:38 <clokep_work> No, its a regexp binding so it'll include the textfield and checkboxes for flags. 14:09:53 * clokep_work is now using a richlistbox instead of a tree for auto link options. 14:10:22 <clokep_work> flo: Kind of basing it off the account manager window, pretty clean code. 14:10:30 <flo> :) 14:17:55 <Mic> I'm not sure what you mean by "regexp binding" 14:20:12 <Mic> bye 14:20:16 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 14:20:59 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:21:14 <clokep_work> Mic: It'll have a textbox to enter the regex, then a g/i/m checkbox for global/case insensitive/multiline, maybe do some other fancy things. :) 14:21:38 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:25:20 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:26:01 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:26:08 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:26:40 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:26:46 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:27:29 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:28:01 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:30:50 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:31:15 <skeledrew> my smileys are refusing to load :( 14:31:21 <tymerkaev> instantbot: lvm 14:31:22 <instantbot> tymerkaev: Logs Viewer mockup (LVm) is here: http://img690.imageshack.us/i/logsvieweri1.png/. Created by tymerkaev. 14:31:33 <skeledrew> Error: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIJSON.decodeFromStream]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame :: file:///C:/Program%20Files/PortableApps/InstantbirdPortable/App/instantbird/modules/imSmileys.jsm :: getTheme :: line 123" data: no] 14:31:34 <skeledrew> Source File: file:///C:/Program%20Files/PortableApps/InstantbirdPortable/App/instantbird/modules/imSmileys.jsm 14:31:34 <skeledrew> Line: 131 14:31:45 <skeledrew> oops. my bad 14:31:57 <skeledrew> should've pastebined 14:32:21 <skeledrew> but i think that could be related 14:50:08 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:50:30 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 14:50:37 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 14:52:40 --> skeledrew_dev has joined #instantbird 14:53:05 <-- skeledrew_dev has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 15:05:45 <flo> anybody with some inspiration for the blog post announcing the release? 15:07:32 <clokep_work> Perhaps <marquee><blink>Instantbird 0.2 released!!!</blink></marquee>? 15:07:52 <tymerkaev> probably you may add "what's next?" 15:08:04 <tymerkaev> and your plans for 0.3 15:08:06 <tymerkaev> projects 15:08:09 <tymerkaev> and bugs 15:08:14 <flo> I don't know yet 15:08:27 <flo> I guess I'll post about it in about a week when things get clearer 15:12:50 <tymerkaev> http://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.com/repos/rev/db6e0dfb22b3 15:14:37 <clokep_work> Is that live now then? 15:15:08 <tymerkaev> flo: Why XP screenshots? 15:15:34 <tymerkaev> since 7 is last version of Windows, you must use it 15:15:35 <flo> clokep_work: no 15:15:41 <flo> the code is in the repository 15:15:51 <flo> It will be live once we hg pull && hg up on the server 15:16:08 <clokep_work> Ah, got it. :) Wasn't sure if that was done yet or not. ;) 15:16:33 <flo> I'll make sure I have a blog post ready before releasing ;) 15:17:36 <deOmega> flo: good day.. I could not wrap my mind properly around the web layout format.. so i responded with my interpretation as a reply. Additionally, I like the idea just mentioned about having a what's next at the end. 15:18:18 <deOmega> I hope i did not ceat more work, but was my best way of presenting what I thought the message was 15:18:32 <tymerkaev> flo: why? 15:19:53 <flo> deOmega: don't worry. We have really appreciated the help a lot on this page ;). 15:20:29 <deOmega> Great 15:21:07 <deOmega> when i saw it first i interpreted it as descriptive writing 15:21:47 <deOmega> but after i was able to get it out of teh web format and read again, i realize it is more a writing about principles and how you are trying to enforce them 15:22:01 <deOmega> really two totally different angles 15:22:29 <deOmega> so, i retracted every change i suggested on the main item 15:22:37 <deOmega> main entry 15:23:47 <flo> I looked only at the final result 15:23:53 <flo> but Even looked at the whole history 15:24:54 <deOmega> well, i really like the approach you guys had laid out 15:25:35 <deOmega> as it is making teh project seem like the result of messenger users wanting something better...as opposed to a sales pitch 15:26:31 <flo> isn't it reality? 15:26:55 <deOmega> the former is reality is what i thought.. so it is consistent 15:27:10 <deOmega> messenger users that wanted something better and is therefore working on one 15:29:41 <deOmega> ANyway, i was really impressed with it once i saw the message you were sending 15:29:59 <clokep_work> flo: Does getAnonymousElementByAttribute only access direct children? 15:30:13 <flo> deOmega: it's probably the message we forgot to sent a long time ago 15:30:38 <flo> everybody who know us know it's the way we think. It's just not easy to figure out for outsiders 15:31:00 <deOmega> flo: exactly 15:35:44 --> tymerkaev1 has joined #instantbird 15:37:47 <-- tymerkaev1 has left #instantbird () 15:38:10 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 15:38:25 <tymerkaev> flo: why? 15:38:56 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/blog-post-release-0.2.html blog post proposal 15:40:20 <flo> thoughts? 15:40:32 <clokep_work> Looks, good. Simple. :) 15:41:21 <tymerkaev> ;( 15:41:33 <skeledrew> "... Instantbird 0.2 may feel /like/ a completely different software to you." 15:41:54 <flo> skeledrew: fixed, thanks! 15:43:12 <skeledrew> "... (for example, new tabs and message styles)..." 15:45:00 <skeledrew> "Instantbird 0.2 is /now/ available in 5 languages thanks to the great work of our translators." 15:51:31 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 16:04:12 <flo> the page we were discussing this night: http://instantbird.org/ 16:12:18 <tymerkaev> font is difficult to read 16:12:43 <Mic> I'm afraid I'm also going to say something about the font 16:12:51 <Mic> First: I like it 16:13:03 <Mic> You really get used to it after a few lines 16:13:20 <Mic> Unfortunately there are some issues (in my opinion) with certain letters 16:13:24 <flo> the release directory weights 609MB! 16:13:49 <flo> (and is ready ;)) 16:13:58 <Mic> Like the upper case T which seems to have a kerning problem, which makes it look far appart from the following letter 16:14:28 <flo> forward comments about the font to idechix. 16:14:39 <Mic> Does idechix read the logs? 16:14:42 <flo> I don't want to discuss more on that topic myself :). 16:14:43 <flo> no. 16:14:48 <Mic> Otherwise I'll file a bug 16:19:51 <Mic> Which parts of the website will get this style? 16:22:54 <flo> all 16:23:41 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird 16:24:42 <Mic> Maybe I should have said "internet presence" 16:25:57 <Mic> e.g. will the Wiki, Bugzilla or AIO get some more of the 'corporate design' 16:26:21 topic changed by flo to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/." 16:26:53 <Mic> :) 16:27:00 <Mic> The new website .. finallz :) 16:27:24 <flo> the final step is "post on the blog" 16:27:59 <Mic> I really like the outlook :) 16:29:28 <Mic> but it's difficult to see that the ellipsis' are a links actually 16:29:36 <flo> tymerkaev: if your question was "why don't we screenshot on Win7 instead of XP", then it's just because we only have XP at hand. 16:29:40 <Even> no it's not 16:29:59 <Even> the final step is "send a lot of emails to a lot of journalists" 16:30:27 <flo> oh well, I meant to have fully released 16:30:36 <flo> I can quickly rollback the website change and the IRC topic 16:30:58 <flo> not really remove a blog post from RSS feeds syndicates wherever people want it 16:31:06 <Mic> "Get Instantbird for Free" sounds (to me) like you would have to pay normally 16:31:26 <Even> Well, it is the case. Very well known. Ask the majors :P 16:31:40 <flo> crap, the blog uses files from the old ib.org/com websites 16:31:55 <Even> They will explain this very well to you. "Work is money! You should protect creation an pay for it! (AND EXPECT TO PAY FOR IT!)" 16:32:38 <Even> In fact they wre looking for images in the image folder since img.ib.com was in the same folder. 16:32:56 <Even> Only a subfolder away. 16:33:05 <Even> I knew that much :P 16:34:30 <tymerkaev> flo: I can do it. 16:34:36 <tymerkaev> or Even 16:34:46 <tymerkaev> Even: right? 16:34:52 <deOmega> Nice site :) Where are we gonna see a capture of vertical tabs? :) /me hides 16:35:13 <Even> Well. 16:35:38 <tymerkaev> flo: ok? 16:35:47 <Even> If VerticalTabs gets out of the sandblox, it will probably be a recommended addons too. 16:35:55 <Even> Then it will t least be on the front page :P 16:35:57 <clokep_work> I'm OK w/ the font. I think its pretty looking. ;) 16:36:18 <clokep_work> To get out of sandbox, I need reviews, no? :P 16:36:53 <Even> Yes but I'm likely to give the review when people are doing some nice work ^^ 16:37:17 <flo> ok, the blog looks back to normal 16:38:53 <Even> Cool! 16:40:19 * flo just forced the front page to refresh its rss feeds: http://www.instantbird.com/ 16:41:28 * Mic will look at bugzilla later .. there might be a bunch of bugs that are obsolete now 16:42:15 <Mic> ah, Idechix fought the pixels very well :) 16:42:36 <flo> heh ;) 16:42:40 <flo> do you like this page? 16:42:59 <Mic> Absolutely 16:43:50 <Mic> btw you still can't access https://www.instantbird.org/ 16:43:54 <flo> I'll be away from the internet (going home!) in less than 5 minutes for an hour and a half 16:44:10 <flo> Mic: why would you? 16:44:16 <flo> I think it should redirect to the http version 16:45:09 <Mic> Honestly because I think all of the traffic on the web should be encrypted .. ;) 16:45:32 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ : 16:45:33 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n25-instantbird-0-2-released.html - Instantbird 0.2 released! 16:46:35 * flo has just added a 0.3a1 target milestone on bugzilla 16:46:58 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 401 to FIXED. 16:46:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401 tri, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, instantbird.org website shows 2007-2008 copyrights (maybe 2007-2010?) 16:47:12 <flo> cool :) 16:49:21 <flo> back later :) 16:49:29 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 16:58:23 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 347 to FIXED. 16:58:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, Rework www.instantbird.org 17:02:09 <-- patrickjdempsey has left #instantbird () 17:05:41 <Mic> Even: what do you think about offering a rss feed for the news on the homepage? 17:06:59 <Mic> (same for featured addons?) 17:07:46 <clokep_work> Mic: Isn't it already there? 17:08:17 <Mic> It's on the blog and AIO 17:08:36 <clokep_work> http://instantbird.com/index.html 17:08:44 <clokep_work> Has a news section and a featured add-ons section...? 17:09:05 <Mic> You can't subscribe from there 17:09:23 <clokep_work> Ohhhh, I see what you mean. :) That should just be adding one line of HTML. : 17:09:25 <clokep_work> :) 17:10:03 <clokep_work> (So, yes I think it should be offered for at least the blog.) 17:11:16 --> patrickjdempsey has joined #instantbird 17:13:38 <patrickjdempsey> Hi guys, just saw IB 0.2 is up! I'm going to blog about it for my Facebook/MySpace friends to check out! 17:16:44 <Mic> :) 17:16:59 * clokep_work tweeted about it. 17:18:40 <patrickjdempsey> I'm just wondering if the download link should say "for Free" ... does that make it sound like it's a free trial? usually sites that say "Free" have a catch 22 somewhere... although I guess the Firefox download link always says "Free" too. 17:19:38 <Mic> hmm, still "Free Download" sounds different than "Download for Free" to me 17:20:06 <patrickjdempsey> True true 17:20:43 <patrickjdempsey> I'm just looking over the main page at instantbird.com and the features section, it all looks great! 17:20:52 <clokep_work> Firefox says "Download Now - Free", Thunderbird says "Free Download", either of those does seem a bit different. 17:21:52 <Mic> patrickjdempsey: what would you think about adding a one-line-comment to your Firefox themes? 17:22:02 <Mic> Something like: "Also available for Instantbird"? 17:22:20 <Mic> With thousands of downloads a week there must be someone noticing it ;) 17:23:02 <patrickjdempsey> Yeah, I've been thinking about it... not that AMO get's much traffic these days, their attempts to get people to drop themes like a bad habit for Personas seems to be working 17:24:47 <Mic> Honestly I don't like themes much in general so to say (for usuability (imo, I might be completely wrong on this) reasons..) 17:25:01 <Mic> Still: there's a large difference between a nice, well thought theme 17:25:21 <clokep_work> Mic: I'm a fan of system themes. ;) 17:25:23 <Mic> And an image to skin the toolbars 17:26:40 * deOmega is a major fan of themes 17:27:54 <patrickjdempsey> There's a big difference and Mozilla made the executive decision to force people to decide between them instead of just let everyone live in peace as we had done for several years before... and pretty much every Firefox themer is upset about it 17:29:16 <Mic> Is it the update-thing again? 17:29:58 <Mic> They've got a big issue with people not updating Firefox because of outdated extensions (that's how Jetpack got started iirc) 17:30:07 <Mic> I guess the same might apply to themes as well? 17:30:52 <Mic> And since Personas are much more low-maintenance .. 17:32:26 <patrickjdempsey> It's partially that, but by forcing people to decide, they've locked many users into using Firefox 3.5 and an old outdated version of the Persona Plus extension so they can have both... not a very pragmatic solution to the problem of getting people to update IMO. 17:33:27 <clokep_work> What are they forcing people between? Themes and personas? Does 3.6 not support themes? 17:33:34 <patrickjdempsey> They also claim that restarts is an issue but the brilliant little extension Switch Themes proves that it's possible. 17:34:25 <patrickjdempsey> Firefox 3.6 does not allow a user to have a Persona and a Theme at the same time. When they released 3.6 they also released a new version of Personas Plus that locks them out as well. 17:35:51 <clokep_work> Oh, that doesn't make any sense... 17:36:03 <patrickjdempsey> I've heard three different "official" statements now claiming they will reverse this, but they are also running a mistrust campaign as well... like insinuating that Themes cause crashes and could be sources of security breeches. 17:36:20 <patrickjdempsey> And they removed them from Recommended Add-ons as well 17:37:30 <Mic> Sounds like they have already made up their mind :S 17:37:56 <patrickjdempsey> Basically, Mike Beltzner want's them gone and has been adamant about it, while Mike Shaver says they are "around to stay" 17:38:08 <patrickjdempsey> AKA, evil Mike and good Mike lol 17:39:29 <Mic> I don't like the thing the UI team has in mind for the status bar and the addon-status-bar replacing it btw 17:40:11 <patrickjdempsey> So the official word is that Themes are here for the long run, but pretty much everything you read between the lines says, good riddance. Several of us themers have noticed a marked decline in download and daily use numbers on AMO since the 3.6 release, whereas prior to that downloads were skyrocketing. 17:40:35 <Mic> A pity then 17:40:38 <Mic> I need to leave 17:40:40 <Mic> bbl 17:40:45 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 17:41:08 <clokep_work> That's a shame. :( 17:41:18 <clokep_work> Personas are still pretty limited in what they're allowed to theme, right? 17:45:59 <patrickjdempsey> There has been absolutely no improvement or development in the coverage of Personas since thier inception at MozillaLabs 17:47:13 <patrickjdempsey> So they cover the main toolbars and the statusbar and that's it. Still no option for a background color that would allow them to successfully integrate with sidebars or the ability to theme windows other than the main one. 17:48:44 <patrickjdempsey> All of their development work has been on their installer, tweaking the toolbuttons and tabs... and of course their websites and promotions. 17:49:38 <clokep_work> :( 17:50:21 <patrickjdempsey> Which is too bad because when I first tried it out on Mozilla Labs, I thought, wow this has great potential but it's not ready for deployment... now it's an integrated part of the Firefox experience without any real improvements. Which just seems weird 17:51:52 <clokep_work> I think Labs is good. But I don't like that it seems every feature coming out of it is being included in Firefox. 17:52:07 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: #instantbird) 17:52:22 <patrickjdempsey> I thought the colorful tabs was a great one that just disappeared 17:52:32 <patrickjdempsey> and ubiquity seems to be dead in the water too 17:53:09 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 17:54:22 <clokep_work> Ubiquity is "on hold" I believe, but its being supported by others. 17:54:48 <patrickjdempsey> that one was really the only thing that was slated for 4.0 that i thought was going to be a killer app 18:10:07 <deOmega> flo: You do not think that minimize to tray.. the lack thereof should be indicated somewhere with the temporary solution being the minimize to tray addon? 18:10:43 <deOmega> I believe that is something new users will be expecting out of the box and they may not think about the solution being with an addon. 18:10:52 <clokep_work> deOmega: Its on the main page as a featured addon, no? 18:11:08 <deOmega> yes, 18:11:17 <deOmega> but doesn't that cycle the featured? 18:11:37 <deOmega> meaning that it may not be there each time? 18:12:42 <clokep_work> I think there's only 5 featured right now... 18:12:52 <clokep_work> So it might cycle them, but I think it'll cycle to the same ones? 18:14:01 <deOmega> I am not sure.. i assumed it will be showing different ones periodically 18:15:42 <deOmega> I remember the first time i installed ib.. maybe i am not the sharpest, but .. lol.. I probably closed it 3 times thinking maybe i was missing something 18:16:04 <deOmega> then stopped using until the addon became available 18:16:46 <deOmega> but... see.. i maybe different, because i almost never look at my contact list, so do not need to see it 18:17:58 --> flo has joined #instantbird 18:17:58 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 18:18:45 <clokep_work> I don't know. You'd have to ask flo, but I wouldn't think it needs any special treatment. ;) 18:19:38 <deOmega> That is a good enough opinion. Thanks 18:20:32 <clokep_work> But its just an opinion. :) 18:20:42 <flo> patrickjdempsey: there's "free" on the Firefox download button (and we copied it) because "I can't afford it" was the #1 reason why people didn't update their Firefrox (they used a survey to collect the data) 18:20:49 <deOmega> Indeed 18:24:49 * skeledrew just browsed the blog looking great. i didn't know status could be set from the msg box :) 18:28:36 <patrickjdempsey> - yeah that status shortcut thing is pretty sweet! 18:29:51 <flo> I guess we need to post more "tips" like that 18:30:16 <skeledrew> flo: just gave me an idea 18:30:34 <flo> For exemple, even Even didn't know it's possible to prevent typing notification from being sent while thinking about a message by just adding a "/" at the begining of the textbox 18:30:40 <skeledrew> how about a tips dialog for first time users? 18:31:14 <skeledrew> i didn't know that either... 18:31:21 <flo> no startup dialog, please! :-D 18:31:35 <flo> we can (and want to) display tips while downloading. 18:31:38 <skeledrew> flo: just for the first run :) 18:31:43 <skeledrew> oh 18:31:45 <flo> I think Mozilla does that for Firefox 18:32:06 <skeledrew> k 18:32:09 <flo> dinner time :) 18:33:12 <patrickjdempsey> Yeah, tips in the download dialog are nice, helpful and do make the time pass! 18:33:25 <patrickjdempsey> gotta go! 18:33:28 <-- patrickjdempsey has left #instantbird () 18:33:45 <clokep_work> I agree, but not on start. I hate tips dialogs on start. :( 18:34:06 <skeledrew> kk 18:37:04 * skeledrew thinks the msg styles and emoticons should be moved from prefs to the add-ons dialog for consistency... 18:37:36 <skeledrew> http://instantbird.com/release-notes.html 18:37:36 <skeledrew> "... the list of tabs is /scrollable/." 18:37:59 <skeledrew> ^ minor correction 18:42:33 <skeledrew> sooo what's the diff between 0.2b2 and 0.2, apart from the polish? 18:43:08 <skeledrew> cuz i'm tempted to keep 0.2b2 18:43:21 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird 18:45:58 <hicham> 64Mb for the source tarball 18:46:56 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Why would you not upgrade? If its extensions that can be easily overcome. 18:47:12 <clokep_work> And I agree, the styles/emoticons should be moved to the add-ons dialog. :) 18:49:05 <skeledrew> not extensions. just want to ensure that i'm not downloading something identical 18:49:25 --> idechix has joined #instantbird 18:50:30 <deOmega> skeledrew: get 0.3a1pre :0 18:51:13 <clokep_work> Ah, gotcha. 18:52:52 <skeledrew> deOmega: lol. nah. i like cutting edge, but not that sharp 18:53:31 <deOmega> lol 18:53:48 <skeledrew> oh yeah. where's the zipped version? i hate installers... 19:02:04 --> patrickjdempsey has joined #instantbird 19:04:13 <flo> skeledrew: wait for the automatic update. It will be a small download 19:04:44 <skeledrew> btw, FF's telling me the actual size of the installer is 7.84MB, not 7.6MB as advertised 19:04:56 <skeledrew> hmm 19:05:03 <flo> it's different for all languages 19:05:05 <clokep_work> Probably the difference between on disk sizes or whatever. 19:05:34 <flo> yeah, 7.8 19:05:38 <flo> I guess 7.6 was beta2 19:05:44 <skeledrew> lol 19:05:58 <flo> the indication is not really accurate anyway 19:06:08 <skeledrew> i was wondering if the server was giving FF wrong info 19:06:08 <flo> because the size differs depending on your language 19:06:37 <flo> skeledrew: you can download the zip if you really prefer: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2/ 19:06:57 <skeledrew> k 19:07:14 <patrickjdempsey> Hey guys, just a suggestion, you might want to mention on the blog how to setup a facebook chat account. 19:08:00 <flo> there's an entry in the FAQ for that 19:08:07 <skeledrew> so when will IB be debuted on PA.c? i can't wait to see Pidgin and Miranda start getting some serious competition 19:08:22 <clokep_work> PA.c? 19:08:35 <skeledrew> PortableApps.com 19:08:52 <DGMurdockIII> ask the guy there 19:08:58 <DGMurdockIII> guys* 19:09:02 <skeledrew> DGMurdockIII: ? 19:09:08 <clokep_work> Oh. I see. 19:09:29 <skeledrew> isn't it up to flo? 19:09:32 <patrickjdempsey> Ahh yeah flo, thanks I see it now, just making sure the bases have been covered well. ;) 19:09:32 <clokep_work> All the applications on PortableApps.com are made that way by the guy who runs the site. I don't think any of the programs have anything to do with it. 19:10:07 <skeledrew> actually they did an overhaul other day 19:10:55 <skeledrew> they've released tools and guidelines for people to easily convert their apps to PA format 19:11:20 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Gizmokid20052): ping 19:11:20 <clokep_work> I removed them from my RSS feed, I have no need for portable applications. 19:11:25 <skeledrew> and from there i gues it'd be just a matter of submitting it for review... 19:11:33 <Gizmokid2005> 'allo DGMurdockIII :) 19:11:37 <Gizmokid2005> I'm guessing one in the same? 19:11:43 <DGMurdockIII> yes 19:11:47 <Gizmokid2005> k 19:11:52 <Gizmokid2005> I haven't tried any nightly builds 19:11:58 <DGMurdockIII> someone in here is asking for a portable verson 19:12:02 <Gizmokid2005> i'm pretty at home in pidgin, but I do keep up on the blog 19:12:09 <Gizmokid2005> and I've seen a bit of the new stuff that's been done. 19:12:29 <Gizmokid2005> skeledrew: I'll see what I can do about making a portable version 19:12:44 <Gizmokid2005> it won't be for a little while yet, this is a busy week for me, but I can give it a go 19:13:07 <skeledrew> Gizmokid2005: i was mainly referring to getting it on PA.c 19:13:14 <Gizmokid2005> i know skeledrew 19:13:19 <skeledrew> i already have mine portablized 19:13:24 <skeledrew> k 19:13:27 <Gizmokid2005> I don't think John will release it as it's still early in the lifecycle of the app 19:13:45 <Gizmokid2005> I've gotten Songbird and KVirc up there, but I can work on a more official build and get it up there for testing 19:13:51 <skeledrew> Gizmokid2005: oh. hmm. so you're a regular? 19:13:59 <Gizmokid2005> skeledrew: of PA.c? Yep. 19:14:03 <skeledrew> i see 19:14:38 <-- patrickjdempsey has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 19:17:44 <Gizmokid2005> I've been interested in Instantbird...and actually getting it portablized would be a good way for me to start using it more I do suppose...so I'll see about getting it going this weekend or next week 19:18:00 * flo wonders if "early in the lifecycle" means "not dying" 19:18:08 <Gizmokid2005> haha, no flo 19:18:37 <flo> Instantbird is already 3 years old. 19:18:42 <Gizmokid2005> "early in the lifecycle" should be translated to "early development stages - ie not /really/ designed to be used by the masses and fully feature functional" 19:18:42 <flo> that's older than Google Chrome. 19:18:44 <Gizmokid2005> I know 19:19:00 <Gizmokid2005> that's just how it's normally interpreted around there 19:19:04 <clokep_work> I'm sure Google Chrome has a lot more people working on it. ;) 19:19:05 <Gizmokid2005> but, I will certainly give it a go 19:19:17 <Gizmokid2005> same with songbird really 19:19:30 <flo> clokep_work: and they have certainly been hiding somewhere for a few years before the public release ;) 19:20:40 <Gizmokid2005> that kind of brings me to a good question...do you run your "nightlies"/repo more like KVIrc or Adium? 19:21:23 <Gizmokid2005> ie - KVIrc's is designed to always be working and not break things, maybe adding in iffy support for something, but not breaking it...whereas Adium says stfu/gtfo when something is broke (It's not DESIGNED to ALWAYS work...) 19:22:17 <flo> we try to keep them always usable. 19:22:45 <flo> we have "released" as nightly completely unusable builds (windows only!) only twice if I remember well. 19:23:06 <flo> and we have removed them as soon as someone alerted us 19:23:27 <Gizmokid2005> flo: good :) 19:23:41 <Gizmokid2005> I'd probably start with portablizing the stable version though...for some reason JTH isn't too keen on nightlies being portable... 19:23:53 <flo> in the future we would like to have something like "blessed nightlies" that have been tested and uses for a few hours by trusted community members. 19:24:10 <hicham> flo : 0.3 will use gecko 2 ? 19:24:11 <Gizmokid2005> that's a neat idea 19:24:14 <flo> that would be as up to date as nightly builds, but with the additional guaranty that they will always at least start 19:24:27 <flo> hicham: I think so (almost sure). 19:25:27 <hicham> It is neat to install/remove addons without restarting 19:25:47 <flo> it won't work for all add-ons 19:26:05 <Gizmokid2005> flo: well that seems to be a good idea...the only thing I can really see as being a stickler is the "lack of" releases? Since you run more out of nightlies than stable releases.. 19:26:16 <flo> but I would (really!) like it to work for at least dictionaries, message themes, emoticons, and protocol plugins implemented in JavaScript 19:26:57 <flo> I think we will try to release (at least alpha versions) more frequently 19:27:04 <hicham> flo : why not for all addons ? 19:27:29 <flo> because it's not possible for add-ons that need to do things at startup. 19:28:18 <flo> but those will be more like exceptions ;) 19:29:22 <Gizmokid2005> flo: planning on 0.3 anytime soon? (Final that is) 19:30:03 <hicham> chrome doesn't require restart for addons 19:30:25 <clokep_work> They have a totally different addon system though. 19:30:46 <flo> Gizmokid2005: we will soon start to plan seriously about 0.3. But we don't start by setting the release date. 19:30:57 <skeledrew> Chrome has some weird bug in it that prevents me from opening files i download with it 19:31:15 <Gizmokid2005> I don't blame you flo, just curious if you had a timeline at all 19:31:45 <flo> there's a roadmap 19:31:48 <flo> instantbot: roadmap 19:31:51 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'roadmap' might be. 19:31:53 <instantbot> flo: The Firefox 3 schedule: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Schedule and only goes up to M9 & http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Status 19:31:57 <skeledrew> and one that crashes my sound and network drivers or something if i have a media catcher running 19:31:59 <flo> arg 19:32:38 <skeledrew> lolz 19:34:20 <clokep_work> instantbot: roadmap is https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap 19:34:21 <instantbot> clokep_work: But roadmap is '<reply> The Firefox 3 schedule: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Schedule and only goes up to M9 & http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Status'... 19:34:35 <clokep_work> arg. :( 19:34:53 <flo> instantbot: no, roadmap is <reply>http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap 19:34:54 <instantbot> flo: ok 19:35:15 <Gizmokid2005> interesting bot setup... 19:35:30 <clokep_work> Apparently it needs convincing... 19:35:39 <Gizmokid2005> i use a Phenny bot for my stuff 19:35:40 <flo> heh 19:35:54 <flo> when it doesn't know something it asks its friends 19:35:57 <flo> like firebot 19:36:05 <Gizmokid2005> now that's neat! 19:36:06 <clokep_work> Yeah, I didn't know it could be overridden. 19:37:09 <clokep_work> flo: Instantbot runs off mozbot I assume? 19:37:23 <flo> yes 19:37:43 <flo> Morian is our bot trainer :) 19:37:50 <skeledrew> hmm... 19:38:00 <skeledrew> instantbot: roadmap 19:38:01 <instantbot> skeledrew: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap 19:38:08 <skeledrew> nice! 19:38:52 <Gizmokid2005> flo: see the first comment: http://portableapps.com/node/14781 <-- though I'm sure it has changed since then 19:39:21 <Gizmokid2005> I'm going to take a look at the version that was put up there and see what it really does, but I'll get a true test up soon 19:39:23 <flo> it was 2 years ago 19:39:27 <Gizmokid2005> yep 19:39:41 <Gizmokid2005> ironically DGMurdockIII that was your post 19:48:32 <flo> tymerkaev: have you seen http://www.opennet.ru/opennews/art.shtml?num=27294 ? 19:49:14 <clokep_work> Oh, flo. So...on the wiki there's a list of "notifications". How can I actually use those? :) I want to use "new-conversation" to see when a new tab/conversation is added, or is there a better way? 19:49:41 <flo> use the nsIObserverService interface 19:50:57 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 19:51:29 <clokep_work> OK, Thanks. 19:53:06 <clokep_work> Wow, Google Translate is telling me that that site says..."in the annex are actively used tabs (guitar)" :) It also has a sentence about food. ;) 20:02:18 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird () 20:03:35 <clokep_work> flo...Uh..."Notifications related to conversations are dispatched only to the observers of the conversation, not globally through nsIObserverService." 20:03:37 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 20:03:58 <flo> new-conversation is not in that list ;) 20:04:13 <clokep_work> It says it in the comment next to it... 20:04:35 <clokep_work> Ohhh, I see what its saying now. :) 20:13:59 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 20:14:07 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2) 20:23:24 <skeledrew> 3 new files and 1.2MB more diff from 0.2b2 20:24:05 <skeledrew> well, time for that upgrade... 20:24:23 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 20:26:04 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 20:26:18 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2) 20:26:38 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 20:27:08 * skeledrew is now using IB 0.2 :) 20:27:11 <flo> skeledrew: out of curiosity, where did you get that data from? ("3 new files and 1.2MB more") 20:27:31 <skeledrew> flo: folder properties comparison 20:27:41 <flo> ah 20:28:03 <flo> I think there will be less files in 0.3 with that kind of comparison 20:28:13 <skeledrew> hmm 20:28:13 <skeledrew> k 20:28:19 <skeledrew> good 20:28:32 <skeledrew> i'd love to see IB stay light... 20:29:37 <clokep_work> From removing more libpurple stuff? 20:29:44 <flo> it's a matter of putting all the files in the same file to avoid slow startup on OSes (like Windows) that are very poor with file systems. 20:30:01 <flo> that's something Mozilla people have been working on for a few months 20:30:45 <skeledrew> k 20:30:47 <flo> clokep_work: libpurple is not that big I think compared to the Mozilla platform 20:31:04 <skeledrew> esp xpcom.dll... 20:32:31 <clokep_work> Right, but isn't it many files? :) 20:32:34 <hicham> mozilla is huge 20:32:43 <clokep_work> I know. 20:32:52 <hicham> flo : can you provide a source without mozilla ? 20:32:56 <flo> clokep_work: libpurple is ONE file ;) 20:33:16 <skeledrew> *xpcom.dll=xul.dll 20:33:29 <hicham> flo : or that is not feasible ... 20:33:38 <flo> hicham: what's the use case? 20:33:38 <clokep_work> flo: Oh, really? Its compiles down to one file? I thought the protocols, etc. were all compiled into separate dlls, shows how much I know. :P 20:33:56 <flo> depends if you look at it in Pidgin or Instantbird ;) 20:34:03 <flo> you have a purple.dll file and that's it 20:34:28 <flo> that's the "# libpurple statically linked with its dependencies and its default protocol plugins." line in the changelog ;) 20:34:54 <skeledrew> purple.dll is under 2MB. xul.dll is 10MB! 20:35:00 <hicham> flo : I would like to package it, but trying to avoid the huge mozilla source 20:35:10 <flo> do you package the source? 20:35:28 <hicham> flo : i will use the system's one 20:35:48 <hicham> flo : that is how i build it 20:35:51 <flo> why does the size of the source archive matter? 20:36:16 <flo> if you build it once and people download a binary package, the size of the source doesn't matter 20:36:36 <hicham> flo : because, i will have to upload the source also, with my slow internet connection 20:36:41 <flo> it's probably technically possible. 20:36:55 <hicham> flo : like you do on hg 20:37:10 <hicham> flo : there is no mozilla source on hg 20:37:13 <flo> but don't you just give an url to the source archive and a checksum? 20:37:43 <hicham> flo : of course, but why duplicate stuff ? we already have a source on the buildsystem 20:37:57 <flo> it's not a matter of duplicating stuff 20:38:02 <flo> what you requests add works 20:38:27 <hicham> ok, sorry then ... 20:38:29 <flo> and actually duplicates the source code on our server 20:38:41 <flo> I'm not saying it's not possible 20:39:22 <hicham> IB source code is small, compared to the rest of mozilla source 20:40:10 <flo> yes 20:40:17 <flo> but it's still an additional file 20:41:29 <hicham> I think I will just download the archive from hg, with the right changeset 20:41:47 <hicham> where can I find the release changeset ? 20:41:59 <flo> if you want to upload it somewhere, rather than give the url, that's certainly a good way to do it 20:42:53 <flo> try :)https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/archive/0.2.tar.bz2 20:42:53 <hicham> flo : I must upload it to the buildsystem :) 20:43:33 <hicham> flo : thanks, that will do the trick 20:46:28 <flo> np :) 20:48:18 <hicham> flo : i copy the mozilla source tarball on the buildsystem to IB source tree, and do the build with the system sdk 20:48:43 <hicham> flo : the only problem i had is nss 20:53:46 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 20:56:52 <clokep_work> Bye. 20:59:27 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:59:43 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Error: looked_up_public_ip_cb(): Failed Finding <NewExternalIPAddress 21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/dbebf9abbb07/purple/libpurple/upnp.c 21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Line: 753 21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> Source Code: 21:01:43 <DGMurdockIII> upnp: looked_up_public_ip_cb 21:06:12 <Mic> Preventing typing notification with a slash before a message sounds not exactly like a feature .. 21:14:49 <flo> Mic: it's one 21:15:02 <flo> we don't want to send typing notifications for commands 21:15:13 <Mic> It's abusing the fact that the program expects a command to come 21:15:18 <flo> there's an exception on /me that does send them 21:15:18 <Mic> That's a hack so to say 21:19:08 --> patrickjdempsey has joined #instantbird 21:19:53 --> GeekShad0w has joined #instantbird 21:20:33 <patrickjdempsey> I have a question about the update channel... shouldn't 0.2b2 update to 0.2? 21:20:53 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 21:28:42 <flo> patrickjdempsey: it will 21:29:17 <flo> I think we will wait a day or two before pushing the update 21:29:37 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird 21:29:41 <patrickjdempsey> Gotcha. 21:30:45 <Tonnes> good evening/afternoon 21:32:01 <flo> hello 21:32:17 <skeledrew> Tonnes: welcome 21:32:47 <Tonnes> thanks 21:32:50 <Mic> Hello 21:33:35 <Tonnes> just read about IB and was wondering about the need for a Dutch (nl) translation 21:34:15 <Tonnes> mut admint, haven't tried IB yet 21:34:20 <Tonnes> (admit) 21:34:50 <Tonnes> is there a need for it, or have you had any offers for nl l10n yet? 21:35:53 <flo> I think someone offered to do it a long time ago, and has never actually done anything 21:36:10 <flo> so if you want to do it, that will be appreciated :) 21:36:47 <flo> but I guess it's more fun to translate an application that you use, so maybe you will want to try it first? ;) 21:37:07 <Tonnes> i was about to do so :) 21:37:25 <Tonnes> (it's a basic rule to dos so, I think) :) 21:39:30 <Tonnes> would it be a matter of using (shared) unmodified 1.9.2 files and add some others, or are there any differences compared to current 1.9.2 ones? 21:39:59 * Tonnes is browsing them currently 21:41:01 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 442 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de. 21:41:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Problems with "Sacco-Vanzetti Instantbird" font 21:41:07 <flo> you just have to translate the files of the Instantbird UI. 21:41:25 <Tonnes> ah, ok 21:41:27 <flo> the translations of the Mozilla plateform comes from Mozilla locale repositories 21:41:42 <flo> and we import libpurple translations so that you don't duplicate the effort of Pidgin translators 21:41:56 <Tonnes> clear 21:43:28 <Tonnes> one reason to do it is my contribution to mozilla products, so familiarity 21:44:18 <flo> you are already translating other mozilla products? :) 21:44:37 <Tonnes> whether i can keep up with it would become clear, but I like to see some consistency - if at some point someone elkse is willing to take it over due to lack of time would be ok 21:44:44 <Tonnes> yes 21:45:19 <Tonnes> how about the IB localizers, aren't there any that do so as well? 21:45:20 <flo> by the way, like Songbird, Instantbird is not an official Mozilla project (not supported by the Mozilla foundation). 21:45:53 <hicham> instantbird use vanilla xulrunner 21:45:57 <hicham> unlike songbird 21:46:33 <Tonnes> yes, i understood.. but as it uses the reps, it would be nice to use the same 'rules' or style, so to speak, for the ib files 21:47:28 <flo> are you using tools to translate Mozilla applications? 21:48:15 <Tonnes> another (personal) plus perhaps: I'd be using a multi protocol IM client again :) 21:48:23 <flo> :) 21:48:47 <flo> there's some documentation about the process here: http://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation 21:49:07 <flo> you may skip some/most of it as I guess you are already familiar with using mercurial :) 21:49:15 <Tonnes> hmm not really, well except the page tools, but for most translations I use the TC diff tool 21:49:25 <Tonnes> indeed 21:51:02 <Tonnes> i've been delivering patches for FF since 1.0 and humbly think I'm the most critical (when it comes to dutch language) l10n contributor 21:51:41 <flo> that's great! :) 21:51:43 <Tonnes> similar with TB, Lightning and SM, sometimes helping with new files 21:52:32 <Tonnes> they made me owener of calendar as well, as the other guy quit 21:52:53 <Tonnes> lightning/calendar, well calendar officialy, of course 21:53:07 <Tonnes> same for sumo 21:53:30 <Tonnes> some extensions of they are bad 21:53:48 <flo> we keep a list of our active translators on this page: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Locales_Managers 21:54:17 <Tonnes> as well as amsn and, in the past, tc. that's about it :) 21:54:20 <flo> well, German and Greek translators haven't been that active :-/ 21:54:52 <flo> do you mind having your full name and email address listed there? 21:57:52 <Tonnes> er.. well.. if the work is done perhaps? :) I'd like to stay humble and appreciate if my name isn't listed very much on the net, which is why there my name is slightly different on the calendar page (by one letter) 21:58:19 <Tonnes> or just first name, or (this) nick. but it's no real problem :) 21:58:48 <Tonnes> and hey, if that's the same george fiotakis i met last week, that's a nice coincidence! :) 21:58:52 <flo> I'll need an email address to send you a password. You can send it by private message if you don't want to give it publickly 21:59:29 <Tonnes> george is pretty active in mozilla l10n as well, isn;t he? 21:59:57 <flo> I haven't heard from him recently 22:01:07 <Tonnes> i was lucky to have been invited to the mozilla summit last week, and we often met at the smokers spot 22:01:17 <Tonnes> ok i'll pm you 22:05:38 <flo> ok, I emailed you a password :) 22:06:59 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 443 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de. 22:07:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=443 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Allow to subscribe to rss feeds from instantbird.com 22:07:12 <flo> if you need help to get started, don't hesitate to ask questions :) 22:07:54 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::) 22:09:15 <patrickjdempsey> Hi guys, just wanted you to know I filed a bug for Firefox for manually installing search plugins. Since this could help IB, I figured you might want to track it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577975 22:10:06 <Tonnes> thanks :) 22:11:57 <flo> ouch, you mean the "Get more search engine" link we currently have is completely useless? 22:12:17 <-- Even has quit (Ping timeout) 22:12:41 <patrickjdempsey> I think the only way to install one is to manually put the file into the search engines folder in the profile and restart 22:12:41 <Mic> d'oh 22:12:47 <Mic> I never tried... 22:12:54 <Mic> AIO tries to install them into Firefox :S 22:13:12 <flo> that's something we should fix 22:13:45 <Mic> Need a bug for that? I'm working in Bugzilla anyways right now 22:13:55 <flo> I think the best idea we have had to make AIO more useful is to replace the download buttons' urls by urls starting with ibaddon:// and register a protocol handler for it in Instantbird 22:14:08 <flo> so that a click in the browser for such a link forwards the add-on install request to Instantbird 22:14:13 <Mic> Sounds pretty good imo 22:14:17 <flo> Adium does something similar with adiumxtra:// 22:17:11 <patrickjdempsey> It would be great to get that, for experienced users downloading the installer to the desktop and dragging it into Addons or the profile folder works fine, but for noobs that would certainly be a barrier from using add-ons. 22:18:26 <flo> there's the "install" button on the add-on manager 22:19:23 <skeledrew> wouldn't work if IB's portable 22:20:21 <Mic> flo: now that we have localized releases it could be a good idea to do actually do as suggested in bug 369 to channel reports of this kind 22:20:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Localizations component to Bugzilla. 22:21:11 <flo> skeledrew: I think the users who are unable to do a drag&drop are also unable to decide they need a portable version 22:22:25 <skeledrew> good point 22:26:49 <Tonnes> hmm.. current nl repo files are all localized. Should there be more, or rather, what repo to use for en-US? 22:27:34 <flo> The en-US strings are in the code repository: https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/ 22:28:04 <Tonnes> thanks.. do you recall who did these files for nl? 22:28:12 <flo> to see quickly which files you should add, I guess comparing with the repository of an already complete locale helps: https://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/fr/repos/ 22:28:33 <flo> those files are converted automatically from the translations of Pidgin 22:30:36 <Tonnes> i see.. is it allowed modify thosel? 22:30:44 <Tonnes> ..to.. 22:30:50 <flo> sure! 22:31:04 <Tonnes> ..without the risk of being overwritten? 22:31:11 <flo> especially if the original translations are poor... or not up to your own standard 22:31:13 <Tonnes> automatically thaht is 22:31:22 <flo> won't be overwritten 22:31:28 <Tonnes> ok 22:31:36 <flo> we import only once before our translators starts working on it 22:32:00 <flo> after that, we can show what was changed in Pidgin, but it's up to you to use that patch or not :) 22:32:28 <flo> man, we should really add a translation FAQ 22:32:52 <flo> those imported files are causing a lot of confusion 22:32:58 <Tonnes> interesting.. how about the oter way around? i mean, do the Pidgin people look at or implement our changes on those files? 22:33:10 <flo> no 22:33:12 <Tonnes> :) 22:33:22 <flo> I originally thought about it 22:33:28 <flo> but it's way too much work 22:33:35 <Tonnes> i guess, yes 22:33:51 <hicham> weird 22:34:00 <flo> they can't get much out of it anyway 22:34:16 <hicham> does it have pidgin specific hooks ? 22:34:19 <flo> as our translations of libpurple are stripped from all the parts of libpurple that we have removed 22:34:38 <flo> hicham: I don't understand your question 22:35:16 <hicham> flo : what i know is that libpurple can be used directly 22:35:25 <hicham> flo : without changes to it 22:36:06 <flo> that's not a question 22:36:36 <hicham> yes, it is not :D 22:36:57 <hicham> no, I mean, what do you change in libpurple ? 22:37:05 <hicham> can't it be used as it is ? 22:37:43 <flo> why are you asking this question *again*? 22:38:05 <flo> we had the same discussion a few days or weeks ago 22:38:30 <hicham> sorry, I don't remember :( 22:45:50 <Mic> hicham: if you like to look up something you can check the log files 22:46:16 <hicham> Mic : is the channel publicly logged ? 22:46:20 <Mic> All conversations here are available as logs on http://log.bezut.info 22:47:23 <hicham> thanks a lot 22:47:27 <Mic> (see the topic, the link is usually there) 22:48:17 <Mic> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/ always points to the current log btw if you want to bookmark it 22:48:37 <flo> Mic: it seems google hasn't indexed all the logs though :-/ 22:48:38 <Mic> inserting /yesterday/ also works 22:48:43 <Mic> I know 22:48:49 <flo> I tried to look for the conversation I was refering to but couldn't find it 22:49:10 <Mic> Maybe there's a way to ask for new indexing 22:49:31 <Mic> Iirc some search engines had a form where you could enter an adress to index 22:50:06 <flo> I think there's also a way to provide a map of the site and say how often each page should be revisited 22:51:13 <Mic> http://www.google.com/addurl/?continue=/addurl 22:51:40 <flo> what about putting the logs in lxr? :-D 22:52:21 <Mic> I filled out the google form 22:52:28 <Mic> let's see 22:54:25 <flo> I guess tomorrow I should email our translators and suggest they make some "noise" around the release. 22:54:44 <flo> It's disappointing to see only en-US and ru are being downloaded... 22:56:02 <hicham> i will add arabic too if i package it 22:56:57 <flo> given our website is currently only in English and our announcement is in english too, I don't see how people who need the localization because they can't use an english version are supposed to discover it 22:57:48 <hicham> not necessarily 23:01:11 <-- patrickjdempsey has left #instantbird () 23:07:24 <Mic> good night 23:07:29 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 23:07:46 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited) 23:08:34 <skeledrew> hmm. how can the quit message be customized? 23:10:16 <flo> I don't think it's possible currently 23:10:23 <flo> except if you use the /quit command 23:11:11 <skeledrew> but that disconnects everything on that network right? 23:11:35 <flo> right 23:11:47 <flo> the /part command is the same for only a channel I think 23:11:59 <skeledrew> k 23:12:41 <skeledrew> maybe there's a way to send the message as the client exits? 23:15:32 <flo> wanna rewrite the IRC plugin in JS? (that would be cool :)) 23:16:02 <skeledrew> sounds like a challenge 23:16:38 <skeledrew> i'd have to pseudocode-ize the C source first though... 23:17:22 <flo> not really 23:17:26 <flo> IRC is a documented protocol 23:17:55 <flo> C source code is not the most readable documentation :) 23:18:06 <skeledrew> i know 23:18:29 <skeledrew> but i've never done any of this protocol stuff 23:18:44 <flo> that hasn't been done yet 23:18:58 <flo> it's something we want to do for 0.3 (protocol plugins implemented in JavaScript) 23:19:20 <skeledrew> i need to see how things mesh, etc and break it into bite sized chunks 23:19:27 <skeledrew> k 23:19:55 <skeledrew> would be nice to have a kind of converter 23:20:21 <skeledrew> then you'd just need to fine tune the results 23:22:52 <flo> the JS->C way sounds more possible 23:23:09 <skeledrew> why? 23:23:25 <flo> the C code is full of odd stuff with pointers 23:23:56 <skeledrew> it should be easier to higher gen lngs 23:24:05 <skeledrew> hmm 23:24:07 <skeledrew> k 23:24:34 <flo> one way is "compiling", or desugaring. The other way is "magic" ;). 23:24:55 <skeledrew> lol 23:25:12 <flo> you need to understand the logic to write correct higher level code 23:26:13 <skeledrew> yeah. but you can short circuit it by only using the lower language elements in that high lang 23:26:26 <flo> that's plain stupid 23:26:44 <skeledrew> it's a quick fix... 23:26:50 <flo> and not even really possible (as you can't have pointers) 23:26:57 <flo> it doesn't "fix" anything 23:27:05 <flo> and the API is not even the same at different levels 23:27:26 <skeledrew> gotta be a way to represent them 23:27:36 <skeledrew> well that's a major issue... 23:28:23 <flo> I guess you can write a C "interpreter" in JS, but I don't really see the point (except avoiding crashes at the cost of a huge slow down) 23:30:30 <skeledrew> k 23:30:33 <flo> (by the way, sorry for the word "stupid", I didn't mean it) 23:30:44 <skeledrew> that's a bit overboard 23:30:48 <skeledrew> nah 23:30:51 <skeledrew> np 23:31:40 <skeledrew> just thinking on my feet (or seat) and not enough facts to back it up 23:32:29 <flo> It's late here, I should really get some rest. 23:32:32 <flo> Good evening/night! 23:32:43 <skeledrew> evening