#instantbird log on 07 06 2010

All times are UTC.

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02:08:54 <clokep_> Put out the official 0.1 release of Vertical Tabs for anyone using it, just a few small UI changes (and tabs should have a max-height now on Mac/Linux).
02:09:04 <clokep_> Also have drag and drop working (kind of) in my development version. :)
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05:45:20 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
05:45:21 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n22-message-styles.html - Message Styles
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06:10:50 <FishFace> The mintrayr.xpi. If I click that from http://tn123.ath.cx/mintrayr/ , it wants to add on to Firefox. So I saved it instead. How can this be applied to instantbird?
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07:33:03 <Mic> The colours on the screenshot go well together (even though pink wouldn't be my first choice;)
07:33:23 <flo> good morning :)
07:33:38 <Mic> Good morning 
07:34:17 <Mic> The first screenshot is a little older, I guess?
07:34:27 <flo> why?
07:34:34 <Mic> It has the Pidgin-op-icon;)
07:34:46 <flo> arg
07:35:01 <flo> I think the screenshots are from beta2
07:35:16 <flo> 0.2pre builds don't have the official icon
07:35:21 <Mic> bbl
07:35:22 <flo> and on Windows the icon is visible
07:47:17 <Mic> The application icon?
07:47:36 <flo> yes, the icon in the tittle bar
07:47:43 <Mic> Is that .. so bad?
07:51:10 <Mic> What do you mean with "on Windows"?
07:51:31 <Mic> There aren't different screenshots for different OS' yet, are they?
07:52:00 <flo> I mean the screenshot on the blog where taken on Windows
07:52:22 <Mic> ah, ok
07:52:26 <Mic> Many of them are
07:52:30 <Mic> Almost all of them iirc
07:52:35 <Mic> bye
07:52:47 <Mic> Going to uni .. a little late today ;)
07:52:53 <flo> hehe
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08:22:27 <flo> Mic: image fixed ;)
08:23:33 <flo> FishFace, open the add-on manager from the tools menu, and there you have an "Install.." button.
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09:12:00 <Mic> :D
09:13:00 <Mic> I mixed up which icons you were referring to
09:21:35 <FishFace> Thanks flo. Got it :)
09:22:53 <Mic> Maybe we should create a how-to for that
09:23:32 <flo> how to install add-ons ?
09:23:38 <flo> that should go in the FAQ I guess
09:23:55 <FishFace> Yeah
09:24:56 <Mic> Do you have a preview of the FAQ, flo?
09:25:12 <flo> I hasn't changed at all yet
09:25:18 <flo> I'll work on it today
09:25:34 <Mic> I think the one on the wiki has something that applies to nightlies only at the moment
09:26:16 <Mic> Even though it is maybe in the Not-So-FAQ part ;)
09:27:47 <Mic> Ah, no. The not so FAQ has things on Nightlies, but there are other things that are most likely not in the real FAQ yet
09:28:40 <Mic> (in the wiki FAQ (too many similiar things in this sentence;)
09:29:49 <flo> the parts related to logs are not yet in the website FAQ
09:29:50 <Mic> FAQs can be pretty lengthy .. what if we just put links to other pages with details if the answer is too long?
09:30:32 <flo> I guess we should give a short answer, and links for people who want the details
09:36:17 <Mic> Something like this
09:45:49 <flo> I'm not sure why I listed "nickname completion" as something that should go in the new FAQ
09:46:19 <Mic> I think I asked you to add it
09:46:28 <Mic> Several people have been asking about this
09:46:36 <Mic> Whether it is there or if it will be added 
09:46:48 <flo> having a general "What's going to be in the next releases?" question pointing to the roadmap on the wiki, and a roadmap FAQ page on the wiki sounds better to me today
09:47:39 <flo> we can add a lot of "When will ... be added?" questions if we start listing features in the FAQ
09:47:56 <flo> (file transfer, systray icon, buddy icon, ... basically anything listed in the roadmap)
09:48:44 <Mic> "I haven't found <...> / I'm missing <...>" -> please check the road map if it is a feature that is going to be added some day ... blablabla
09:49:05 <Mic> The question would contain the placeholders
09:50:16 <flo> the facebook username question is very common too
09:50:43 <Mic> maybe we should do that on a wiki page
09:50:59 <Mic> We're only going to miss something when it takes place in chat only
09:51:40 <Mic> even though I'm off to lab now ;)
10:12:35 <flo> someone needs to write a good article to help translators get started :(
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11:53:09 <clokep_work> Good morning.
11:54:33 <clokep_work> flo: I would think about writing an article for translators...but I don't really understand the translation system since I haven't had to translate, perhaps start with an outline and people can fill in various aspects?
11:55:12 <flo> the questions I received today are: "Ukrainian translation is already present in these files. What is my role?"
11:55:25 <clokep_work> Oh, boo. :(
11:55:25 <Mic> Maybe it would be best if one of the translators does that? They experienced the problems themselves, most likely
11:55:36 <flo> "I think some strings are not needed to translate at all. For example,
11:55:36 <flo> invalidProxySettings=Неправильні параметри проксі
11:55:36 <flo> It looks like this string is not for user interface messages, and it is a some variable name."
11:57:45 <clokep_work> Didn't realize you meant stuff that basic. Does Mozilla have a tutorial / explanation of what is contained within the files we can point to? Its mostly the same process.
11:57:56 <flo> I don't know
11:57:59 <clokep_work> (Well at least once you have the actual files.)
11:58:27 <flo> there's a lot of confusion about the files I import/convert based on the libpurple translations
11:59:16 <clokep_work> libpurple strikes again. :(
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12:03:50 <Mic> Why is that?
12:04:13 <flo> the confusion?
12:04:14 <Mic> Are they different from pre-translated files imported from the toolkit?
12:04:31 <flo> there are no pre-translated files imported from the toolkit
12:04:51 <flo> the toolkit is translated, and we package its translation when we do localized builds
12:05:16 <flo> instantbird translators never see/touch toolkit locale files
12:06:04 <Mic> ok
12:06:37 <flo> and the libpurple translations are in a .po file (a single file per language) which includes Pidgin and Finch strings too.
12:07:26 <Mic> So the task is also removing Pidgin strings?
12:07:52 <flo> for Instantbird the translations are separated in a file per protocol plugin + 1 for the code of libpurple
12:08:09 <flo> they become .properties files, which look like any other mozilla .property file
12:08:52 <flo> we create the .properties files automatically based on the content of the .po gettext file from the pidgin source tarball
12:09:02 <flo> but gettext doesn't mind having incomplete translations (it just falls back to english)
12:09:30 <flo> our system doesn't like (and we don't want) partially translated builds, so our translators have to edit these generated files to add the strings that were missing on the pidgin side
12:10:32 <Mic> Do they know which ones are missing or do they have to check on each string?
12:10:59 <flo> after each commit they receive an email that includes the list of the missing strings
12:11:07 <flo> or a link to an .xpi file they can use to test their translation
12:11:31 <Mic> hmm, can't we include them into the files right away?
12:11:37 <flo> so before they commit/start, they don't know
12:11:54 <flo> actually, the system doesn't work until there are the minimal required files in their repository
12:12:14 <Mic> Like a script that reads the en-US locale file, extracts every non-comment string before "=" and does check on the actual locale if all of them exist
12:12:23 <Mic> if not, append all missing ones as comment at the end?
12:12:26 <Mic> Or something like that?
12:13:22 <flo> maybe, I don't know
12:13:32 <Mic> bye
12:13:43 <Mic> Meeting now ..  
12:13:56 <flo> ok, I have one in a few minutes too ;)
12:15:41 <clokep_work> Any chance we can port https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574654 at some point? It'd keep me from having to resize tabs every time they're created. :)
12:16:17 <flo> why do you have to resize them?
12:16:28 <flo> cant' you just change the default value of the pref ?
12:17:47 <clokep_work> Hmmm...I probably could, although I was thinking it might cause problems with a splitter, but I don't remember how/why I came to that conclusion...
12:23:07 <flo> meeting, back later
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12:28:45 <Mic> We should make links middle-click-able
12:29:13 <clokep_work> Mic: I always run into that problem. :( (In Thunderbird too...)
12:33:11 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 438 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
12:33:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Open links from conversations also on middle clicks
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13:00:37 <deOmega> gm  all
13:00:49 <clokep_work> Hello.
13:01:39 <clokep_work> deOmega: Updated my extension to 0.1, only includes a few minor UI fixes. Its on AIO.
13:02:04 <deOmega> clokep_work: I noticed last night and updated to it
13:02:10 <deOmega> thank you very much
13:02:32 <clokep_work> deOmega: It didn't auto-update, right? I don't think experimental add-ons do that...
13:03:18 <deOmega> no, I had to  do a manual download and manual install over the previous
13:03:31 <deOmega> i checked to see if it would pick it up, but it did not
13:05:04 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. :) I also have some basic drag and drop working on my development version, but it needs a bit more work. :)
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13:05:57 <deOmega> clokep_work: Looking forward to it :)
13:08:32 <clokep_work> deOmega: Also you can make the tabs wider by changing a tabbrowser preference.
13:08:52 <deOmega> in about:config?
13:08:59 <clokep_work> Yes.
13:09:09 <deOmega> ah,.. was wondering if that would apply
13:09:35 <clokep_work> browser.tabs.tabMinWidth
13:09:38 <clokep_work> I haven't tried, but it should. :)
13:10:01 <deOmega> i see verttabbar.width at 241
13:10:35 <deOmega> i would think that would be the one to change, no?
13:10:49 <clokep_work> That preference is not from my extension...
13:11:02 <clokep_work> I would guess its from verttabbar, if you tried to make that compatible?
13:11:57 <deOmega> Ohhhh
13:12:06 <deOmega> yeah I did work on that
13:12:11 <deOmega> but ialready removed it
13:12:59 <deOmega> it also shows  ver tabbar position..  like i can do right or left 
13:13:29 <clokep_work> Right click > Reset on both of them and they should go unbold and the value shuold disappear.
13:14:14 <deOmega> ok,  did
13:14:28 <deOmega> i set the tabs width to 300 and 300
13:14:49 <deOmega> min and max  so will see what happens when i  restart
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13:18:50 <deOmega> what you suggested worked.. i had my min at 75
13:19:13 <deOmega> it seems to pick up the min and so i changed it to 100 and it is great that way
13:19:13 <clokep_work> Good. :)
13:20:01 <clokep_work> Yes, the way the code is set up it tries to minimize the size, but the minimum size allowed is set by that preference...so only the min matters.
13:20:54 <deOmega> Makes sense
13:22:06 <clokep_work> Good, that means I don't need to support different size tabs. :P
13:23:15 <deOmega> still would be nice to be avbe  to drag the tab width manually
13:23:49 <clokep_work> Yeah, that's planned. But its good that users can change it right now if they want to without any changes by me.
13:26:39 <deOmega> indeed
13:26:56 <deOmega> i wonder what is teh default min size by IB
13:27:00 <deOmega> maybe it is 100
13:27:03 <deOmega> flo?
13:27:12 <clokep_work> I think its 100 for min and 250 for max.
13:27:14 <deOmega> and if so, then that is good
13:27:18 <deOmega> then that is good
13:27:28 <flo> 100
13:27:41 <deOmega> wel, so that solves that
13:28:14 <deOmega> so my problem was somewhat specific to me, since I changed that size
13:28:51 <clokep_work> deOmega: Yes. Was wondering why your tabs seemed so small in that screenshot. :) But now it makes sense.
13:29:19 <deOmega> ah!  gotcha now.. i thought u were referring to the height :)
13:29:51 <clokep_work> No, although I feel like the height might need to be a little bigger...
13:33:01 <deOmega> I like the height, but would understand
13:44:57 <deOmega> ok.. so seems like file transfer is a big deal tosome folks
13:45:02 <deOmega> was asking around
13:45:13 <deOmega> send and receive
13:48:03 <deOmega> I wonder if it would be a pain in teh beehind for a theme builder to simpley add a command (hehe.. command)..that would allow teh tab background to pick up the color of the message style... or the theme itself
13:48:40 <deOmega> I will admit.. a lot of what i  speak about are really  not mission critical.. but  helps to talk
13:50:03 <clokep_work> But the tabs is part of the theme, not the message style...
13:51:54 <deOmega> the background area that i was pointing out with the baby blue?
13:52:39 <Mic> Now for something completely different: what I find really interesting (and I guess difficult to do) is using the chat input box in the conversation content
13:52:56 <Mic> So the message theme could place it where it likes and theme it as it likes
13:53:21 <Mic> (would include removing the input box at the bottom of the window)
13:53:41 <Mic> e.g. a bubble in your color with the input box inside
13:54:20 <clokep_work> Hmm...could be interesting. :)
13:54:54 <deOmega> Mic: I will try to implement that :)
13:55:02 <Mic> I'd say: this is the next big thing :P
13:55:33 <Mic> I think it's rather difficult, the conversation area isn't chrome iirc
13:55:57 <deOmega> Should  be easy for me
13:56:52 <Mic> go ahead then ;)
13:57:21 * Mic is back to lab now.
13:57:22 <Mic> cu
13:57:46 <deOmega> seriously though, i am not able to wrap  my brain around it, i suppose i am already programmed to what  is the norm.. I have to work on thinking outside the box .
14:00:39 <clokep_work> Always a difficult task to do, but its the way to actually be innovative and come up with new ideas.
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15:15:58 <deOmega> I like those metalchat themes.. but  man, they need some cleaning up
15:16:35 <deOmega> one of them  gives random timestamps.. while the other has annoying scribbles
15:17:05 <clokep_work> deOmega: Message styles from AIO? Fork 'em and fix them. ;)
15:17:41 <deOmega> yes.. I was looking at them to fix them
15:17:55 <deOmega> man, they are really nice.. but need cleaning up
15:19:36 <deOmega> i figure i just need to understand the css and mess around.  I thik i will really give those a very godo try
15:19:51 <deOmega> should be easy enough
15:20:12 <clokep_work> Feel free to ask questions.
15:20:45 <deOmega> thanks.. i do not want to become anag when doing them as I woud feel it is better that i let you guys do em
15:21:16 <deOmega> BUt i would really like to  try and fix one myself so i could learn what the lines represent.. just for fun
15:21:52 <deOmega> I have been having more down time lately han ever, so I  am exploring stuff
15:22:37 <clokep_work> Google is your friend. :) But if you can't understand something, especially Instantbird specific, you should ask.
15:23:15 <deOmega> I figure that the place i need to be in is the css file.  correct?  Since they already work and i am just  changing a thing or two in teh appearance
15:23:46 <clokep_work> Yes, CSS handles most of the "styling" of XUL applications.
15:23:50 <clokep_work> And the messages in this case...
15:24:02 <deOmega> great.  thank you
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15:29:41 <clokep_work> No problem. ;) Good luck.
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15:48:50 <deOmega> looking at your screenshot..I really do not think the tabs are too short.  Perfect height imo.
15:50:12 <clokep_work> deOmega: Yeah its OK, I need to look again. I noticed last night that the "stuff" inside each tab doesn't seem to be vertically aligned in the center. :(
15:50:37 <deOmega> ah, ok
15:51:57 <clokep_work> I'm not talking much larger, maybe just a couple of pixels.
15:53:19 <deOmega> ok
15:53:44 <deOmega> ic an truly understand
15:54:25 <clokep_work> deOmega: Or I could make a browser.tabs.minTabHeight and maxTabHeight. ;) That'd probably be the "correct" way to do it.
15:56:40 <deOmega> makes sense
15:56:53 <deOmega> i think i would vote for that
16:00:18 <clokep_work> Of course that requires me to rewrite some methods. :(
16:00:25 <clokep_work> File a feature request. ;)
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16:13:12 <deOmega> when i close this chat window.. to get back into the room, i have to disconnect and reconnext the mozilla account 
16:15:00 <clokep_work_food> You can do File > Join chat...
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16:15:34 <deOmega> ah.. :)
16:16:08 <deOmega> thank you again
16:21:21 <clokep_work> You're welcome!
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17:38:31 <Mic> I've to admit I've abused the disconnect/connect button also before to rejoin this channel ;)
17:38:49 <Mic> It's quicker than typing the channel name into the box ;)
17:41:17 <clokep_work> Sounds like they need to be in the buddy list. :P
17:41:53 <deOmega> YES!!!  :)    Thanks Mic.. I do not feel alone :)
17:42:34 <Mic> flo argues that it is a buddy list and not a "sort of bookmark list for chat contacts"
17:43:34 <clokep_work> Then we need a buddy list and a chat contact list.
17:43:51 <Mic> I'd like a list like this:
17:44:04 <skeledrew> i'm hearig the sweet sound of the wheels of justice slowly turning :)
17:44:31 <Mic> Buddies with active conversation sorted on top, online buddies below, offline even further down (or hidden by default)
17:44:57 <Mic> If typing notification were more reliable it'd put that there as well
17:45:41 <Mic> these are just my 2 cents ;)
17:46:40 <clokep_work> I don't particularly care how my buddies are organized,a lthough they're all in groups currently...
17:49:30 <Mic> Some more ideas: group by sorting (like in Thunderbird), typeahead find, ..
17:49:54 <clokep_work> What do you mean by group by sorting?
17:50:03 <clokep_work> typeahead find? Like a quick filter on the top of the buddy list? :)
17:51:15 <Mic> not on top of the list
17:51:21 <Mic> it starts filtering as soon as you type
17:51:33 <skeledrew> maybe multi-level grouping, so you can sort by several criteria at once
17:51:33 <skeledrew> eg. by protocol, then group, ...
17:51:35 <Mic> I think the name is now "find as I type"
17:52:05 <Mic> Thunderbird allows to sort by sender/subject/date/.. and can group messages
17:52:47 <Mic> With date that means you have today/yesterday/last week/week before last week/... groups
17:53:34 <clokep_work> Mic: Do you mean "filtering" or just selecting based on what you've typed? I definitely miss the latter.
17:53:34 <clokep_work> And grouping/sorting based on anything would be interesting.
17:53:57 <Mic> It would anything that doesn't match the entered letters
17:54:14 <Mic> If you run Skype, then try entering a part of a contact name while having the list focused
17:54:19 <Mic> It does exactly this
17:55:14 <clokep_work> I'm still confused at whether it removes people from the list that don't match or just jumps to a buddy.
17:55:52 <Mic> It removes them
17:56:23 <Mic> So if you enter something that just matches three buddies, then you're displayed list will only be these three buddies
17:57:11 <clokep_work> Hmm...maybe, but how does it "reset"? That's why I was thinking a box above/below the list...
17:57:42 <Mic> It could either timeout like the find as I type search does in the content window ..
17:58:04 <Mic> .. or you "backspace" all entered letters
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17:58:22 <Mic> (ie match anything)
17:58:49 <Mic> oh, flo's back to stop my jabbering? ;)
17:58:52 <clokep_work> Oh, so it would still pop up showing you your filter? That sounds good then.
17:58:52 <skeledrew> or reset by clicking
17:58:59 <clokep_work> Can we make it support regex? ;)
17:59:07 <Mic> something like this
17:59:17 <Mic> lol
17:59:35 <skeledrew> clokep_work: regex? sounds nightmarish
17:59:55 <skeledrew> not for live finding
18:00:36 <Mic> The thing I had in mind is finding your buddy quickly
18:00:52 <Mic> Not being able to find .. anything you could do with regexp
18:00:57 <clokep_work> skeledrew: I actually have (and use) a regex extensions for the Find in Firefox...
18:01:32 <Mic> My use case for the find as I type feature is usually finding a piece of information or quickly jumping to a link
18:01:42 <Mic> the latter is the more frequent
18:02:43 <skeledrew> clokep_work: you remember all those symbols?
18:03:03 <clokep_work> Mic: I agree, was teasing about the regex.
18:03:06 <Mic> Remembering the symbols is not the hard part with regexp imo ;)
18:03:09 <skeledrew> Mic: yeah
18:03:20 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Yes. I know most of the JS regex implementation by heart.
18:03:34 <skeledrew> lol
18:03:41 <skeledrew> i'm not that deep
18:03:45 <skeledrew> yet
18:03:56 <Mic> hmm, if we had something like this for the buddy list, then we should maybe hav it for MUCs as well
18:04:02 <Mic> *have
18:04:34 <clokep_work> Don't see how that's applicable, or do you just mean different sorting algorithm's, (i.e. by power, name, etc.)?
18:05:00 <Mic> the filtering, not the grouping/sorting
18:06:13 <skeledrew> Mic: MUC?
18:06:18 <Mic> Multi user chats
18:06:24 <Mic> "channels" on IRC
18:06:25 <skeledrew> oh
18:07:23 <Mic> bye (Dinner)
18:08:57 <skeledrew> k
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21:44:21 <flo> good night :)
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