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00:07:17 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 00:27:00 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 00:27:27 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:28:59 <clokep> Something to add to the FAQ: When working with two instances of Instantbird. Don't close out of your /real/ one. :( 00:45:59 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 03:26:28 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 04:11:39 * Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK 04:40:29 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 06:04:16 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 06:07:02 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 06:07:13 <Mic> hi 06:15:41 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 06:36:47 --> flo has joined #instantbird 06:36:47 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 06:37:28 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 06:40:39 <flo> Good morning! :) 06:42:57 <Mic> hi 06:43:29 <Mic> The things mentioned on bug 395 don't help to cure bug 384 btw 06:43:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 64-bit builds 06:43:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Notifications fail to use libnotify; reason: "Failed to load XPCOM component 'libmozgnome'" message 06:44:42 <Mic> Unfortunately I know too little about it to do anything about it 06:46:55 <Mic> I've listed the dependencies of libmozgnome, some are misssing but exactly these appear as well as "Unused direct dependencies" .. 06:48:06 <Mic> Does this mean that they're not needed after all? 07:36:38 <flo> well, creating a 64bit builds should help ;) 08:05:34 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 160 to INCOMPLETE. 08:05:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160 cri, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, Crash [@ purpleAccount::GetAlias] 08:05:59 <flo> ah, instantbot has finally decided to read its emails :) 08:06:47 <Morian> I had to put its cache in 666 :( 08:07:23 <Morian> I couldn't find what user is used to execute the perl script :-/ (tried instantbot, morian, postfix) 08:10:37 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 388 to FIXED. 08:10:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=388 min, --, ---, raynaudquentin, RESO FIXED, Add search engines to AIO (problem: none there at the moment) 08:28:36 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 08:35:37 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 62 to WONTFIX. 08:35:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62 nor, --, ---, idechix, RESO WONTFIX, Main page is not contains full info about protocols. 09:00:39 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 358 to DUPLICATE of bug 384. 09:00:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Notifications fail to use libnotify 09:00:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Notifications fail to use libnotify; reason: "Failed to load XPCOM component 'libmozgnome'" message 09:16:41 <flo> * 1.0: Moving from another IM client to Instantbird should be a pleasant experience. 09:16:47 <flo> does this look like a reasonable goal? :) 09:16:56 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 09:17:30 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:18:08 <Mic> Sounds good at least 09:21:43 <flo> :) 09:24:59 <flo> I'm looking for a title for the blog post we were polishing yesterday. What about: "Our goals: toward 0.2 and beyond"? 09:35:42 <Mic> Sounds good to me 09:49:33 <flo> I've just updated the roadmap: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap 09:51:54 <Mic> And with the release of 0.2 the 0.2 section will be removed? 09:51:57 <Mic> ;) 09:52:04 <flo> moved to the timeline I guess 09:53:12 <Mic> hmm, maybe I'll change the headlines in the timeline to emphasize the version 09:56:30 <Mic> hmm, this kills the ToC 10:03:50 <Mic> flo: do you plan to stick to the version numbering scheme? 10:03:58 <flo> not sure 10:04:32 <flo> at some point we thought 0.2 could be called 0.5 as we seem to be halfway of the goals we had for 1.0 10:04:56 <Mic> I was more thinking about the psychological point of view ;) 10:05:43 <Mic> It's completely subjective ofcourse but I think using 2.0 feels better than 0.2 ;) 10:06:19 <flo> "2.0 BETA" instead of 0.2 final ? :-D 10:12:40 <Mic> "Instantbird 2010" ? ;) 10:13:58 <Mic> I was more or less serious on the 0.2 thing. 10:14:07 <Mic> I don't think low version numbers are good advertisement 10:14:35 <flo> yeah, I know 10:14:51 <flo> but I don't think what we released as 0.1 could have deserved 1.0 at the time 10:15:23 <Mic> I wanted to point out the problem 10:16:02 <Mic> and not suggest any specific version number 10:16:02 <flo> people used to having beta versions of microsoft products numbered "7" make strange assumptions about applications with <1.0 version numbers 10:16:31 <Mic> People on other system might have problems with version numbers that aren't prime.. 10:16:47 <Mic> .. or don't converge to a fancy number ;) 10:17:01 <flo> :) 10:19:16 <Mic> Early lunch today :) 10:19:16 <Mic> bbl 11:54:13 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 11:56:19 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 11:57:13 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 11:57:53 <skeledrew> morning 11:58:03 <flo> afternoon 11:58:32 <clokep_work> Good morning. 12:00:25 <clokep_work> I like the version numbering the way it is. I think jumping to 0.5 is reasonable when you its "usable" by the "general public" and maybe jumping to 0.9 when there's only a few things missing from 1.0. 12:00:43 <clokep_work> flo: Migrating from other IM clients would be great (i.e. reading accounts.xml, logs, etc. from Pidgin?) 12:01:06 <skeledrew> flo: definitely 12:01:17 <flo> "Pidgin" looks like a massive reduction of "other IM client*s*" ;) 12:01:22 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 12:01:39 <skeledrew> a common migration interface would be freat 12:01:45 <skeledrew> *great 12:01:48 <flo> the way I see it is 12:02:05 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird () 12:02:33 <flo> at first startup, a wizard pops up, saying "Welcome to Instantbird. blahblahblah" "Would you like to try and import existing accounts already setup on this computer?" 12:02:55 <skeledrew> i'd say more like the aggregation of all the basic features of other popular clients 12:02:56 <clokep_work> You mean like Firefox asks from IE? ;) 12:03:03 <skeledrew> yeah 12:03:10 <clokep_work> Pidgin is a massive reduction, but its the only one I know file names for. :P 12:03:20 <flo> if the user agrees, we scan the computer for installed IM software, look inside their profil folders/the registry/whatever, and we get anything we can (username, password, logs, ...) 12:03:37 <clokep_work> Buddy icons. ;) 12:03:48 <flo> whatever crap there is on the hard disk ;) 12:03:49 <skeledrew> what about portable IMs? 12:04:29 <flo> skeledrew: you mean, saying in the wizard "I know you have a dozen USB stick on your desk, please insert each of them so that I can see if you have some hidden IM accounts in these."? :) 12:04:37 <clokep_work> Those would be super hard to find without scanning the entire drive. :( 12:04:40 <skeledrew> lol 12:04:45 <skeledrew> something like that 12:05:15 <skeledrew> i'm actually running the majority of my apps as portables 12:05:20 <flo> this needs to be extensible 12:05:29 <flo> we will target first the common clients 12:05:33 <skeledrew> makes things alot easier when i have to reinstall my OS 12:05:57 <skeledrew> Pidgin, Digsby, Tridium, ... 12:05:58 <flo> skeledrew: it's even easier to *not* reinstall the OS. 12:06:03 <clokep_work> Adium 12:06:17 <flo> Windows Live Messenger, AOL, Yahoo!, ... 12:06:20 <clokep_work> AIM, MSN, WinLive, Yahoo, Yahoo J, ICQ :P 12:06:25 <skeledrew> flo: not when you've messed it up beyond recovery :P 12:06:52 <flo> skeledrew: there are OSes that are harder to mess up than others 12:07:08 <clokep_work> DOS is pretty hard to mess up. :) 12:07:20 <clokep_work> Although there's not much to mess up... 12:07:22 <flo> clokep_work: so is a paper sheet. 12:07:28 <skeledrew> flo: there are also some OSes that cause dependency on it due to specific apps... 12:07:51 <skeledrew> clokep_work: true 12:08:01 <skeledrew> DOS is fun too ;) 12:08:38 <clokep_work> flo: I like the new roadmap. It seems a bit more focused and less wishy washy. :P 12:08:50 <flo> thanks :) 12:08:57 <skeledrew> i need to check that out :) 12:09:03 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 12:12:11 <skeledrew> re emoticons, i really like how Pidgin has couple hundred smileys for it's default, but most're actually protocol specific in the theme file... 12:13:08 <clokep_work> Doesn't that not fit into what Instantbird is supposed to be though? Its meant as a layer between the user and the protocols. 12:13:17 <clokep_work> I.e. why shouldn't ever protocol have the same emoticons. 12:13:36 <flo> yeah, protocol specific stuff that are not useful should progressively disappear from the UI. 12:14:21 <flo> there are 2 opposite ways of seeing this: 12:14:48 <flo> 1. The conversation should look as close as possible as what the other users can see. (in this case, protocol specific emoticons make a lot of sense) 12:15:11 <skeledrew> clokep_work: each protocol supports it's own set of smileys (except the more common such as :), :(, :P, etc), and also the sequences used to evoke them... 12:15:16 <flo> 2. Which protocol is in use is a technical detail that the user doesn't need to care about, and should not be visible at all. 12:15:40 <skeledrew> flo: true 12:16:00 <clokep_work> skeledrew: I know, but we can solve that in software. ;) 12:16:04 <flo> The decision between the 2 ways of seeing this is hard, because both points are valid. 12:16:19 <flo> I tend to prefer 2. because it fits more with our "simplicity" goal 12:16:26 <skeledrew> lemme pastebin the Pidgin theme file... 12:16:48 <flo> if people want to go the other way around with add-on, that's up to them of course :) 12:18:14 <skeledrew> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/266 12:19:07 <clokep_work> Bah this Twitter-OAuth-Opensource thing is a mess. :( 12:19:23 <skeledrew> it supports a small generic set, then the protocol specific ones 12:20:50 <flo> skeledrew: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:smileythemes 12:20:54 <skeledrew> hmm. maybe it could be made so protocol themes can be individually added, instead of having to specify all the supported protos in a single file 12:21:42 <flo> what's the point? 12:21:57 <skeledrew> not sure... 12:22:02 <skeledrew> ... yet :) 12:22:26 <flo> by the way, if you *really* want to have protocol specific emoticons, the way to do it is: change the code so that each conversation can use a different emoticon theme (relatively easy to do, as it's already the case for message themes, you just need to copy/adapt) 12:22:43 <flo> then, create an add-on that changes the theme based on which protocol is used in each conversation 12:22:56 <skeledrew> i am kinda fed up with getting smileys that show as text and i have no idea what it is though :( 12:23:17 <flo> (or based on any other criterion, really... Like you could have pink emoticons when talking with your significant other if you like) 12:23:21 <skeledrew> hmm. k 12:23:39 * skeledrew 's wish list continues to grow 12:23:54 <skeledrew> lol 12:24:00 <skeledrew> that's rich 12:25:20 <skeledrew> i need to reboot my education. i'm getting bogged down. gotta start learning from the VERY basics... 12:25:35 <flo> 1+1? :) 12:26:17 <clokep_work> 10 12:26:28 <flo> clokep_work: great :) 12:26:41 <skeledrew> lol 12:27:12 <skeledrew> i'd be more like 9+1=A... 12:27:57 <skeledrew> but i'm going for some Xulrunner tuts... 12:28:13 <clokep_work> I found the XUL School tutorial on MDC to be good. 12:28:20 <clokep_work> And the "XUL Tutorial" haha. 12:28:27 <skeledrew> k 12:28:44 <skeledrew> IB could do with some serious documentation still 12:29:05 <clokep_work> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_Tutorial and https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_School 12:29:05 <skeledrew> if i knew the inner workings more i'd contribute there 12:29:24 <skeledrew> clokep_work: thanks 12:30:13 <clokep_work> I actually read a XBL tutorial yesterday during lunch...so now I understand it a lot better hah. 12:30:37 <clokep_work> XPCOM still frustrates me a lot though, I think its the syntax more then anything. :( 12:30:49 <skeledrew> it's really frustrating trying to build addons and having to work in the dark re usage of libpurple/xpcom/whatever interfaces 12:31:24 <clokep_work> skeledrew: Yeah, really the source is the only reference right now. :( Which occasionally could use better comments. ;) 12:31:53 <clokep_work> flo: Speaking of which...if the hg repo for addons is to be /the/ example for developers...they should probably have more explicit comments of what each grouping of lines does, etc. 12:32:52 <skeledrew> and since i'm a scientist ;) and not an engineer :P i tend to have much more ideas than i implement, and working blind makes it worse... 12:34:09 <flo> clokep_work: more comments there could certainly help 12:34:36 <clokep_work> flo: Just saying since I noticed it while I was working off reply to nick (which...I might have found a bug in...?) 12:34:44 <flo> but I guess that will stay a resource for people who already know most of the technologies used, and mosty want something to copy past to start quickly on a new idea 12:35:00 <flo> for people really learning, at some point we will need to write tutorials or something 12:35:30 <skeledrew> flo: i like writing :) 12:35:48 <flo> I don't! ;) 12:35:54 <skeledrew> lol 12:35:59 <flo> I'm especially poor at communicating about what we've already done 12:36:09 <skeledrew> you're an engineer... 12:36:10 <clokep_work> I don't mind writing technical documents or code. :P Not a big fan of tutorials. 12:36:32 <skeledrew> tech docs aren't really my thing... 12:36:34 <flo> skeledrew: I also spent some time in a research laboratory ;). 12:36:43 <flo> and I often read HCI papers 12:36:49 <clokep_work> -moz-transform: rotate is available in Gecko 1.9.2.*, right? 12:36:51 <skeledrew> good for you :) 12:37:12 <flo> clokep_work: I think so 12:37:41 <clokep_work> flo: I'm thinking of rotating the tabs using it when I put them vertical...then rotating the contents in the opposite direction... 12:38:02 <skeledrew> :-s 12:38:14 <skeledrew> oook... 12:38:35 <clokep_work> (A lot less work then rewriting *stripe/tabbrowser.css :(.) 12:39:31 <flo> by the way, you said your vertical tabs worked but didn't look great 12:39:37 <flo> may we see a screenshot? :) 12:40:08 <skeledrew> hmm. a command to extract links of any kind from convos (instead of scrolling up) would be nice... 12:40:20 * skeledrew is adding to the wish list 12:40:22 <clokep_work> flo: They look a lot better now that I started to rewrite winstripe css files. Its just a matter of swapping values (i.e. height --> width, the "top" becomes the "left", etc.) 12:40:38 <clokep_work> I'll post one tonight. At work currently. 12:40:49 <flo> ok :) 12:41:07 <clokep_work> But Drag-and-Drop isn't really working. :-\ 12:41:21 <clokep_work> I think I didn't rotate the drop bar. :-D 12:41:26 <flo> swap clientX with clientY in the code? :) 12:42:24 <clokep_work> Did that. But I think I missed a function. 12:43:31 <clokep_work> I think I missed _onDragStart... 12:43:59 <clokep_work> Wait nope. Did that I'm pretty sure...not sure. Haha. 12:44:48 <flo> clokep_work: "I'm pretty sure...not sure. " is confusing ;) 12:45:24 <clokep_work> I think I did _onDragStart, _onDrop and _onDragEnd, but I didn't have time to debug that code. Was trying to make it pretty looking first. :) 12:45:30 <clokep_work> The hot keys should still work. 12:48:19 <clokep_work> That's phase 3 of my 3 phase plan. ;) 12:51:22 <clokep_work> I'll put up my code on a repository somewhere and all. Just wasn't sure if I wanted to make separate projects for each or put them all up together. And didn't feel like filling out the crazy forms on AIO to put them there. :P 13:01:38 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird () 13:02:42 <clokep_work> flo: Have you seen http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/DesignGuidelines (specifically a link: http://www.pidgin.im/~seanegan/cgi-bin/pyblosxom.cgi/identity.html) 13:03:07 <clokep_work> (And also http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html) 13:05:22 <flo> clokep_work: is there a specific important point I should notice? 13:06:20 <clokep_work> Sorry, the Uniformity/Simpler is Better, re our conversation earlier about whether protocol emoticons are appropriate and the 2 schools of thought.. 13:06:34 <clokep_work> I guess taht second link the "identity" one is most applciable. :) 13:06:36 <clokep_work> *applicable 13:07:00 <clokep_work> According to that Pidgin wants to hide the user from protocols, but I think they door a poor job of it. :( 13:25:00 --> iBool has joined #instantbird 13:30:31 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird 13:31:02 <flo> Mic: I pushed the linkbugzilla add-on to the addon repo without the icon. Both because I'm not sure yet about the changes in the makefile, and because that part of the diff didn't apply (hg import failed on it) 13:48:44 <Mic> maybe I'll do another patch .. I stripped away localizability which was initially there because I failed to see that it would work 13:49:05 <Mic> Which part? The icon (ie the binary data?) 13:49:35 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has left #instantbird () 13:52:34 <flo> yes, the binary data 13:52:45 <Mic> Any special remarks on the other extensions? 13:53:00 <flo> the other extensions? 13:53:12 <Mic> I'd like to add some characteristics to the Extension article, so people know which one to look at if they're looking for something special 13:53:19 <flo> ah 13:53:31 <Mic> e.g. localizability, preferences, text modifier example, .. 13:53:47 <Mic> enhancing the UI, enhancing a conversation, .. 13:56:07 <flo> oh, so some info about which parts of the code are interesting? 13:56:44 <Mic> Yes, I already grouped them on the article but if there's something else to say I'd add it 13:57:00 <flo> colorize and highlight can change properties of messages before they are displayed. 13:57:29 <flo> show nick finds the message object from the HTML code that is clicked. 13:59:28 <Mic> Anything else? 13:59:54 <flo> replacing/extending a method of conversation.xml /tabbrowser.xml 14:00:34 <Mic> that is on "reply to nick"? 14:00:42 <flo> I don't remember 14:00:50 <flo> but it's relatively easy to see 14:04:18 <flo> that's for colorize at least 14:04:35 <Mic> https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/repos/file/d9d27fcdbaf3/colorize/content/colorize.js#l59 14:04:46 <Mic> ah, exactly 14:05:05 <flo> show nick too 14:05:27 <flo> not reply to nick 14:05:38 <flo> it just uses a simple event listener 14:13:13 * Mic wonders which language the captcha words are based on .. 14:15:08 * clokep_work wonders what languages include both numbers and letters in words. :P 14:15:27 <Mic> I haven't seen that on the wiki yet 14:15:33 <Mic> Maybe that was exactly the problem ;) 14:15:37 <flo> where are those captcha? 14:15:47 <Mic> When adding new links 14:15:54 <clokep_work> (external links) 14:15:55 <flo> ah 14:15:55 <Mic> I think you don't see them as admin 14:16:06 <clokep_work> Yeah, they're annoying. :) 14:16:14 <flo> is there any group that I can add to your account so that you don't waste your time with that crap? 14:16:28 <clokep_work> Is there a "verified" group? 14:16:36 <clokep_work> Based on email verification? 14:16:37 <flo> I don't know 14:16:40 <Mic> No idea, ask Even or google? ;) 14:16:43 <flo> I've never really administrated a wiki 14:17:52 <clokep_work> I have(/do?) a couple of Wikia ones, but they're set up weird. 14:17:57 <flo> is that page publicly visible: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Special:ListGroupRights ? 14:18:25 <clokep_work> Yes. 14:18:46 <clokep_work> "autoconfirmed" might allow no captchas... 14:19:02 <clokep_work> (I don't remember receiving a confirmation email? But we might have haha.) 14:19:07 <Mic> There's "skipcaptcha" 14:19:14 <Mic> Is that a sort of group or a flag or so? 14:20:07 <clokep_work> Seems to be a flag that bots and admins have. 14:24:20 <flo> well, sorry, I don't see how to do it :( 14:27:19 <Mic> bye 14:27:29 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 14:58:34 <flo> I put on the wiki the drafts I have of the next blog posts: https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Fqueze/0.2_Launch 15:02:25 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 15:02:34 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 15:21:16 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 15:34:33 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 15:38:57 * clokep_work reading through the blog posts. 15:55:28 <-- iBool has left #instantbird () 16:02:41 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 16:06:11 <-- Amfi has quit (Ping timeout) 16:12:20 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 16:22:25 <-- Amfi has quit (Ping timeout) 16:23:36 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 16:28:24 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 16:38:00 <Mic> flo: what about another article on the extensibility in general? 16:39:12 <Mic> It would give some examples (some of our users like to save their vertical space for conversations, that's why someone moved the tab bar on the side of the window) .. <screenshots..> 16:39:14 <clokep_work> Or maybe more generally a "how to get involved" article, a section on extensibility, filing bugs, using pre-release builds, (themes? etc?) 16:39:40 <Mic> It would display several interesting things, introduce to AIO, .. 16:47:17 <clokep_work> We should probably just write it ourselves. :p 16:51:56 <Mic> Do you know how to add "~~~~" in a template? 16:52:15 <Mic> I'd like to have the contributions using this template be automatically signed 16:52:59 <Mic> nevermind I found something 16:53:07 <clokep_work> Uhh... 16:53:11 <clokep_work> Yes. 16:53:29 <clokep_work> I think you do <includeonly>~~~~</includeonly> should do it. 16:54:59 <Mic> hmm, sounds better 16:55:13 <Mic> I was thinking about using the respective variables 17:01:03 <clokep_work> :) What template you making? 17:02:09 <Mic> Let me try it somewhere, it's just doing some fancy things 17:02:26 <clokep_work> Oh OK. 17:02:56 <Mic> For commenting on the blogs, {{comment|oldText|newText}} will give a fancy display and sign the comment automatically 17:04:01 <clokep_work> Cool. 17:04:13 <clokep_work> Is this for commenting inline or on the talk page? ;) 17:05:30 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Mic 17:05:53 <Mic> inline 17:08:19 <clokep_work> I would not have the signature be green background, maybe make the font color gray or something? :P 17:08:24 <clokep_work> And small? 17:08:54 <Mic> Size depending on the moon phase? :P 17:09:05 <clokep_work> Nope. :P 17:11:08 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 17:14:18 <Mic> I separated it and made it grey 17:14:49 <clokep_work> I like. :) 17:14:52 <Mic> I haven't changed the font size as it would break the "inline"-look with its different height 17:14:52 <clokep_work> Lets me ignore it now. 17:15:01 <clokep_work> True. 17:15:16 <Mic> Dinner now, bbl 17:30:37 <clokep_work> Bah trying to make it work a little better (I succeeded with part, failed with the other part. :() 17:32:05 --> flo has joined #instantbird 17:32:05 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 17:40:34 <clokep_work> Mic: If I remember its very difficult to get a signature to auto include and I think the "traditional" way to do it is you had another field and the user just does it when they use the tempalte. 17:40:49 <clokep_work> Actually, no, it has to be done that way... 17:41:50 <clokep_work> Because it has to be done at "edit" time, so it has to has to be saved to the page, so it has to be taken as an input to the template. 17:41:55 <flo> if you fix typos or english mistakes in the blog post drafts, you don't need to bother signing ;) 17:42:50 <clokep_work> flo: I didn't find any. 17:43:16 <clokep_work> But only skimmed quickly. I'll re-read 'em later. 17:44:31 <flo> by the way, suggesting/writing posts that we can post after the 0.2 release is a great idea ;) 17:44:49 <flo> we would like to make sure we post frequently (even if it's short) so that people can see we are alive :) 17:45:14 <clokep_work> Once a month? Every couple of weeks? How often? :P 17:49:35 <clokep_work> I like the topics. One thing I noticed was...there's a bunch of things you'd have no way of finding in Instantbird. 17:49:41 <clokep_work> i.e. Ctrl++ is zoom in? 17:50:19 <clokep_work> In Firefox you go "View" > "Zoom" > "Zoom In" and it gives the hotkey (Ctrl++) next to it, but there's no such menu in Instantbird to display the hotkey... 17:54:46 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 17:56:09 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 18:01:17 <Mic> ah, I explicitely put the signing out of peoples fingers 18:01:27 <Mic> *took 18:01:32 <clokep_work> You can't though. 18:01:42 <clokep_work> Unless the template is subst:ed 18:01:51 <clokep_work> But I don't think that's what you want since it would make the source page unreadable. 18:03:05 <clokep_work> Wiki Templates are actually really weak. I'm not a huge fan. :-\ 18:03:09 <Mic> Like this we could just add templates that do fancy colors 18:03:41 <flo> Morian: is instantbot still reading its rss feeds? 18:21:42 --> idechix has joined #instantbird 18:23:32 * Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005 18:28:37 <Mic> How do you do such a thing normally in MediaWiki? 18:30:16 <Mic> Not "the traditional way" but if you want to achieve what I was planning 18:31:27 <Mic> Subst inserts not only the template but replaces the "call" with the output if I'm not mistaken 18:31:48 <Mic> -only 18:35:28 <-- Amfi has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 18:35:44 <clokep_work> Mic: You can't. 18:35:57 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 18:36:01 <clokep_work> Yes, it takes the full content and places it into the page. 18:42:10 <Mic> hmpf.. this sucks. 18:42:33 <Mic> It doesn't replace variables before subst-ing :S 18:44:45 <clokep_work> Yeah, its a pain. 18:44:53 <Mic> Nevermind .. 18:45:24 <clokep_work> MediaWiki is also ugly. :) 18:51:35 <Mic> flo: is there anything speaking against having the 'color parameters' as separate variables? 18:53:19 <Mic> That would be %senderColorSaturation%, .. 19:02:44 <flo> Mic: we need to do something to make it easy for message themes to use the color and its variants. 19:03:10 <flo> didn't you mean senderColorHue by the way? 19:04:01 <Mic> Isn't it .. 19:04:06 <Mic> hue, saturation and .. 19:04:12 <Mic> luminence? 19:05:19 <Mic> I thought it might supply the same parameters as they are used in the participants list 19:05:58 <Mic> If the theme decides not to use some of it because it wants set a certain saturation and luminance itself then they still can 19:07:20 --> skeledrew1 has joined #instantbird 19:10:12 <flo> oh, you meant providing the 3 values? 19:11:21 <Mic> yes 19:11:40 <Mic> Imo the theme should be able to reproduce the color from the list 19:12:26 --> skeledrew2 has joined #instantbird 19:13:32 <-- skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout) 19:15:34 <flo> I understand. I first thought you wanted only the hue because that's the only value that (currently) isn't a constant. 19:28:30 * clokep_work editing flo's blog posts. 19:30:11 <flo> :) 19:30:32 <clokep_work> The nice think about wiki's is it keeps diffs to. :) So I'll just edit it and you can always reject stuff if you want? 19:31:23 <flo> absolutely 19:31:31 <flo> edit freely, I'll look at the modifications later 19:31:47 <flo> you don't even need to sign, as long as you are logged in when you edit 19:32:21 <clokep_work> Yeah, you can't edit on WIO without being logged in. ;) 19:32:36 <flo> that's what I was wondering :-D 19:32:46 <clokep_work> "On Mac OS X, the active conversation window is easy..." is that supposed to be "window" or shuold it be "tab"? I'm not sure of the exact context... 19:32:59 <clokep_work> "On Mac OS X, the active conversation window is easy to distinguish from the others, thanks to different colors of the tabs." 19:33:07 <clokep_work> Beginning talks about windows, end talks about tabs...? 19:35:02 <flo> it's all the upper part of the window that is dark grey (active window) or light grey (inactive window) 19:35:22 <flo> it's exactly like on Firefox 3+ 19:36:15 <clokep_work> I rarely use a Mac, last time I used one was my ex's I think? That's been like a year. ;) 19:36:29 <clokep_work> But OK! 19:36:36 <flo> clokep_work: http://queze.net/goinfre/tabbar-macosx.png 19:36:57 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 19:37:01 <clokep_work> Fancy that. :) 19:37:05 * skeledrew2 is now known as skeledrew 19:37:09 <flo> that's actually useful ;) 19:38:02 <flo> seen on twitter: "Did you know there's a Mozilla instant-messenging client? I didn't! It is Instantbird" 19:38:27 <flo> "I hadn't heard of this project before: Mozilla InstantBird: http://www.instantbird.com/ 0.2 will be landing shortly." 19:38:30 <clokep_work> Songbird gets that a lot too. 19:38:44 <clokep_work> But does it say Mozilla anywhere? :P 19:39:01 <flo> I'm not sure if we should post explaining how much official support we get from the Mozilla Foundation (= none). 19:39:08 <flo> well, we use the irc server :) 19:39:15 <clokep_work> Pet peeve of mine: people that incorrectly capitalize ThunderBird, FireFox, InstantBird, SongBird, etc. :( 19:39:28 <flo> that too! 19:39:51 <flo> and people who wrote "instabird" all over the place... 19:40:18 <clokep_work> Maybe instead of saying "Mozilla rendering engine" you should say "XULRunner toolkit (which Mozilla Firefox runs on)" or something. 19:40:28 <flo> I guess as long as they spread the software I don't care 19:40:32 <clokep_work> But if you're redoing the homepage for more users not devs, they don't care about that stuff. :) 19:40:36 <clokep_work> Touche. 19:40:45 <flo> what about "powered by mozilla"? 19:41:00 <clokep_work> There's powered by Mozilla images actually. 19:41:07 <flo> yeah, like on our home page 19:41:09 <Mic> :) 19:41:22 <flo> it's smaller on the new home page though 19:41:29 <Mic> I wasn't sure where the "Powered by Mozilla" picture in my head came from :D 19:41:40 <clokep_work> Ah I see. 19:42:07 <flo> It anoys my by the way that from the foundation's website pages, Pidgin is as much powered by Mozilla as Instantbird 19:42:13 <flo> (they use NSS) 19:42:20 <flo> *annoys me 19:42:22 --> skeledrew1 has joined #instantbird 19:42:42 <clokep_work> :-\ 19:42:57 <clokep_work> Is the Instantbird blog on Planet? 19:43:01 <flo> but they didn't include Google Chrome (also uses NSS) in the list of "Mozilla powered software", "because it could lead to confusion" 19:43:03 <Mic> Doesn't say so on the poweredby page 19:43:09 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 19:43:16 <clokep_work> Yeah, but the poweredby page is like 16 links deep 19:43:25 <clokep_work> And you have to go through the foundation's page first I think. 19:43:40 <flo> Mic: ah, right, on the "powered by page" :) 19:44:04 <clokep_work> The prefwindow article is very short. :( 19:44:09 <Mic> Have you ever clicked the link that you put on your frontpage? ;) 19:44:17 <Mic> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/powered-by.html 19:44:27 <flo> I confused "powered by" and "Mozilla-based applications", sorry 19:44:43 <flo> clokep_work: because there will be several screenshots 19:44:51 <flo> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mozilla-based.html 19:46:21 <Mic> What do you think? 19:46:31 <clokep_work> flo: That link is silly it has a lot of stuff that uses only NSS or whatever to things that I wish were extensions instead of forks. :( 19:46:43 * clokep_work dislikes forking of software. 19:46:50 <Mic> Will there ever be extensions to edit spreadsheets or administrate your databases from within Instantbir? 19:47:10 <flo> Mic: extension authors do whatever they like ;) 19:47:32 <flo> *I* won't do it except if I'm paid for it enough to make the other parts of the project sustainable. 19:47:58 <clokep_work> Mic: Is that aimed at me? I'm not saying that should be an extension. I'm saying things like Spicebird or Postbox or Trustedbird (since I'm more familiar with Tb forks). 19:48:22 <Mic> No, I'm aiming at the people that use Firefox as Desktop replacement 19:48:50 <flo> clokep_work: I think calling "Mozilla-based application" something that is not extensible and doesn't use the XUL plateform is misleading. 19:49:00 <clokep_work> Mic: Ah, gotcha. I mean you could probably make a damn good spreadsheet program in XUL, but it shouldn't be an extension. :) 19:49:02 <flo> but I guess the goal was to make the list as long as possible. 19:49:22 <clokep_work> flo: Probably written by an American: "Bigger is better." ;) 19:49:38 <clokep_work> (I'm allowed to make fun of myself, right?) 19:49:49 <flo> sure! 19:50:01 * skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew 19:50:31 <flo> I think a few months ago DetroitLibertyPenguin self proclamed being Instantbird's american asshole :-P 19:51:00 <flo> I don't remember what the joke was about though :( 19:51:01 <clokep_work> flo: I don't want that seat. He can have it. :) 19:51:55 <flo> by the way, it seems that the days when French people have the majority here are gone 19:52:29 <flo> only 3 out of 12 19:52:37 <flo> hmm, not sure if Instantbot is French 19:52:43 <flo> instantbot: are you French? 19:52:44 <Mic> You still might use your botgiven powers;) 19:52:46 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'are you French' might be. 19:53:00 <flo> !8ball Is instantbot french? 19:53:01 <instantbot> flo: _I_ don't know. 19:57:59 <clokep_work> flo: "...you are expected to know what you do: testing." err...I have no idea what that's trying to say. :) 19:59:01 <flo> if you are on a nightly build, you are supposed to be here to help us *test* the bleeding edge, not just be a cool kid who's got the new toys first 19:59:16 <flo> so if there are bugs, don't complain! 19:59:17 <flo> :) 19:59:26 <flo> (but do report them, of course :)) 20:01:17 --> tymerkaev_ has joined #instantbird 20:01:22 <Mic> reminds me that I wanted to ditch 0.2pre and get on of these js-proto things ;) 20:02:10 <flo> wanna play with omegle? 20:02:13 <Mic> Is this still valid: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Cleanup 20:02:14 <clokep_work> Mic: Just check out the differenrt branch. :P 20:02:38 <Mic> I know .. I just can't compile here at home 20:02:43 <flo> hmm, a blog post written today, with a screenshot of 0.1.3.1 http://blogzardoz.blogspot.com/2010/06/instantbird-programa-de-mensajeria.html sad :( 20:02:57 <clokep_work> flo: Reply to it. 20:03:02 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 20:03:11 <clokep_work> (Or email the author). 20:03:23 <flo> Mic: "Document/fix/optimize (--> rationalize) functions using mozStorage. " that was done in 0.1.1 or 0.1.2 20:03:26 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 20:03:27 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout) 20:03:38 <flo> I started working on the 2 other points in the js-proto branch 20:03:48 <flo> (cleaning up the way we initialize and use libpurple) 20:04:31 <-- tymerkaev_ has quit (Ping timeout) 20:05:16 <flo> hmm, or maybe the screenshot is just "stolen" from somewhere else 20:06:58 * clokep_work we need a list of all commands that can be used, i.e. /away, etc. 20:07:31 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 20:08:36 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 20:08:53 <Mic> flo: I collected some articles that are no longer used: https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Mic/Unnecessary_pages 20:09:27 <Mic> Maybe someone with sufficient rights could remove them 20:18:13 <Mic> clokep_work: protocols bring their own commands, so you should have per-protocol lists maybe 20:18:55 <clokep_work> Mic: Err...context? We talking about command lines? 20:19:26 <Mic> You just talked about all commands that could be used 20:20:08 <clokep_work> My plan is to take the URI in, take the "protocol" part, convert it to the protocol (i.e. "aim" to "prpl-aim"), then parse the rest of the parameters and apply them to that account. Haven't full figured out a flow of the code yet. 20:20:14 <clokep_work> I did? I'm confused, sorry. 20:21:01 <Mic> I was referring to this: "22:06:59 * clokep_work we need a list of all commands that can be used, i.e. /away, etc." 20:22:11 <clokep_work> Ohhhh, forgot that I said that. Sorry, drifting thoughts... 20:22:42 <clokep_work> Yes, I agree. There needs to be a "Instantbird" list and "protocols" list, and some IRC commands aren't implemented yet...(like /clear...) 20:24:44 <Mic> I've never really had a look, but this link is on the Wiki: http://imfreedom.org/wiki/Main_Page 20:25:12 <Mic> Maybe it helps figuring out what "commands" the different protocols support 20:26:26 <clokep_work> Mic: That's the site I use. :) 20:27:05 <clokep_work> Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands and http://irchelp.org/ (old). 20:27:09 <Mic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_Instant_Messenger#URI_scheme 20:27:45 <clokep_work> Mic: Yup, have those already. :) but what I was talking about before was what commands can /I/, the user, type into the Instantbird window and have something happen w/. 20:28:02 <clokep_work> flo: Edited all of them. Most had minor changes. Some I moved sentences around, etc. 20:28:39 <Mic> Its too late already as it seems 20:28:55 <clokep_work> Too late for what? 20:28:57 <Mic> I'm off 20:29:22 <Mic> Too late for anything that requires anything 20:29:37 <clokep_work> Oh, gotcha. 20:29:41 <clokep_work> Goodnight. 20:30:13 <flo> Mic: if you want the list of commands, just use lxr 20:30:24 <flo> on the libpurple function that registers a command 20:30:31 <Mic> I know 20:30:59 <Mic> The wiki article covered things that people can put into a URI 20:31:02 <flo> clokep_work: thank you! :) 20:31:55 <Mic> eg "aim:goim?screenname=notarealuser&message=This+is+my+message" 20:32:09 <clokep_work> Yup! :) 20:33:10 <Mic> (from Wikipedia;) 20:33:17 <Mic> ie quoting the unquotable :P 20:37:56 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 20:41:59 <-- Amfi has left #instantbird () 21:02:06 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 21:03:41 <clokep_work> flo: I'll try to remember to post a few pictures of vertical tabs today, any particular way you want it? 21:05:15 <flo> no particular way. I was just thinking that a picture was worth a lot of words when trying to describe "not pretty yet" 21:06:18 <clokep_work> True. :( I also of course have no idea how it looks on Mac/Unix. 21:08:49 <flo> it's almost the same on linux and windows 21:09:01 <flo> on mac it's very different 21:09:38 <clokep_work> I know. I'll eventually add the theme for it, but no way to test it. :) 21:09:53 <clokep_work> Took me a while to figure out skins last night. :( Was crashing my Instantbird. 21:10:29 <clokep_work> Anyway I have to get going. 21:10:30 <clokep_work> 'night. 21:10:35 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:10:37 <flo> good evening/night 21:20:29 <-- idechix has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2pre) 21:38:34 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 21:44:12 --> Amfi1 has joined #instantbird 21:44:35 <-- Amfi has quit (Ping timeout) 21:48:43 <-- Amfi1 has quit (Ping timeout) 21:49:11 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 21:49:15 <-- Amfi has left #instantbird () 21:55:23 --> Amfi has joined #instantbird 21:55:26 <-- Amfi has left #instantbird () 21:59:02 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 22:03:48 --> Amfi1 has joined #instantbird 22:03:55 <-- Amfi1 has left #instantbird () 22:09:02 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b2) 22:18:49 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 23:20:10 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout) 23:25:27 --> flo has joined #instantbird 23:25:27 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo