#instantbird log on 03 30 2010

All times are UTC.

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06:28:10 <flo> hi :)
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10:21:24 <Mic> hi
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20:07:36 <Mic> Some more bits of french on the blog (comment description) ("comment from Amfidiusz sent 2010-03-19 _à_ 09:49:32")
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20:13:05 <deOmega> hi guys... i connect to  facebook using  IB... and today i received a  message about my account  possible being suspended for activity.. does that sound familiar?
20:15:45 <deOmega> chat.facebook.com: Block! You are engaging in behavior that may be considered annoying or abusive by other users. You have been blocked from sending chat messages because you repeatedly misused this feature. This block will last anywhere from a few hours to a few days. When you are allowed to reuse this feature, please proceed with caution. Further misuse may result in your account being permanently disabled.  […]
20:16:29 <flo> have you done anything special with that account?
20:16:52 <deOmega> no..  not at all
20:17:10 <flo> where have you received this?
20:17:15 <deOmega> wwel, i have pasted information that the folks been asking for
20:17:22 <deOmega> long text
20:17:28 <flo> ah
20:17:43 <flo> if it was very long, maybe that's what facebook didn't like
20:18:20 <deOmega> OK....I still have no problem or anythiing using facebook or the chat though
20:18:52 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 401 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
20:18:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, instantbird.org website shows 2007-2008 copyrights (maybe 2007-2010?)
20:20:00 <deOmega> IT had alink in teh message that i think  had teh word backend  in the link... did not click on that
20:22:59 <flo> Mic: do you think we will ever find the bug 404 ?
20:26:22 <Mic> Your last question on bug 368 and tymerkaev's answer are good
20:26:25 <instantbot> Mic: Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368 nor, --, 0.2b2, florian, REOP, Context menu items displaced
20:27:25 <deOmega> ok, so i have seen an option somewhere...   to where one can limit the size of files sent  to the limit set by the respective protocol?
20:29:40 <flo> In the future, I'd like to have a warning before sending huge messages, and a possibility to pastebin automatically the message when it's long
20:30:02 <deOmega> ah, ok.  nice
20:30:48 <Mic> flo: in my opinion the thing with pastebin is, that it is 'far more public' than a usual message
20:31:13 <flo> not really
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20:31:35 <flo> if we remove the display of the history, and we make the post id a hash of the content, it's not so public...
20:31:47 <flo> we could even serve it as https for additional privacy
20:32:37 <Mic> ok, a non-predictable post-id would ease much of my concerns
20:33:00 <flo> :)
20:33:35 <flo> my biggest concern is about expiration, and the lack of the content in the locally stored log, for offline browsing
20:34:59 <flo> another is a UI design problem: how do we display a message asking if sending that big message was a mistake, if the user want to send it as an IM anyway, or pastebin it? And do it automatically next time?
20:35:57 <flo> the whole point of automating the pastebin process is to save time and thoughts on the user's side. If we interrupt the user's train of thoughts with a stupid popup asking to make a decision the user couldn't care less about... it sucks :(
20:37:12 <Mic> Having a way to send something to pastebin is fine with me, but I'm not sure if I'd like some sort of automation for it
20:37:32 <flo> nobody will use it if it's not automated
20:37:54 <flo> we need to make sure it won't get in the way
20:38:45 <flo> choose a threshold that makes sense. We don't want to pastebin if the user typed 10 lines of text
20:39:07 <flo> if he pasted a few kilobytes of content, we definitely want to propose it
20:39:16 <deOmega> so, is that what  some othe rmessengers use when they  ask  teh user if they can automatically break up teh messages?
20:39:27 <deOmega> are they using pastebin or someting of the sort?
20:39:44 <deOmega> I have seen it and it is a one tme pop-up
20:39:52 <flo> I think they just send a few messages of the maximum size allowed by the protocol
20:40:09 <flo> do you remember which IM client did that?
20:40:31 <deOmega> Hmm...  i believe it was Miranda
20:44:56 <Mic> The user has some larger text to send and we think that it's not a good way to do that via normal messages
20:45:19 <Mic> Why is pastebin the thing of your choice?
20:47:11 <flo> because it's very likely to work
20:47:27 <flo> and it's appropriate when the message is something you have *pasted*
20:48:24 <flo> sending an email automatically is likely to work only "sometimes" because of spam filters, and using file transfer is ... not reliable at all when there are firewall and NAT routing involved
20:50:26 <Mic> ok, very much like I expected
20:50:46 <Mic> I would have favoured file transfers first
20:51:14 <Mic> as it seems most natural to me, but the "most likely to work" aspect is maybe most important
20:51:18 <flo> we don't have a way to make them work
20:51:34 <flo> except using a web service like rapidshare (with less ads preferably)
20:51:44 <Mic> Users are used to links and everyone has a browser so it's fine
20:52:56 <flo> by the way, I'd really like when we implement file transfers to have a fallback system that would upload the file somewhere and paste a link in the conversation
20:54:02 <Mic> Maybe even fetching the content and displaying it inline (e.g. in a collapsible (or even collapsed from the beginning) part in the conversation content area . Would depend on message themes though..)
20:54:28 <Mic> Would still not solve the problem with the logs
20:57:05 <flo> for the logs, if we really really want to address the issue, we could download it automatically and save it to the disk
20:57:20 <flo> but it probably doesn't matter all that much
21:01:04 <deOmega> I am enjoying the discussion :)
21:04:50 <Mic> After the appropriate-because-*pasted* argument I understand why MUCs have nothing to do on the buddy list and request..
21:05:13 <Mic> .. renaming it to Bookmark-list-conversations-andconversation-partners :P (scnr)
21:06:40 <Mic> beside my typos, my keyboard starts eating characters.. time to recharge the btteries
21:10:16 <flo> Mic: the idea initially was to automate the pastebin action
21:10:27 <flo> each time I want to pastebin something, it takes way too much time
21:10:47 <flo> and the actually reason why we want to pastebin in the first place is that IM is not appropriate for a long message
21:11:29 <flo> so what about letting the IM application decide that it's better to pastebin, without having to even think about it? (except the very first time to confirm this behavior is OK)
21:12:10 <deOmega> makes sense to me :)
21:14:06 <Mic> The thing is it just can't know. If you've got a "Send to pastebin" button and/or key, it will cost not much more time to pastebin something
21:15:47 <Mic> Even though you ask one time if the user would like such a behaviour
21:16:01 <flo> we can decide that alt+enter pastebins without showing the warning (in case it the user wants to see that warning every time)
21:16:14 <Mic> I can imagine that there are enough occasions that the user forgets that it would trigger such a behaviour
21:16:40 <Mic> even though he has been asked about exactly this thing before
21:16:56 <flo> the user would have to check a "always do this" checkbox
21:17:31 <flo> so the user can take as much time he want to decide that pastebin is almost always the good action
21:17:42 <Mic> That's extra 10 seconds to read and check but won't make much difference once he's done that in my opinion
21:18:23 <flo> you mean the user will check "allways do this" *and* forget about the pastebin behavior?
21:19:31 <Mic> Checking a checkbox doesn't make sure that you always keep in mind that "things could end up on the web" depending on what you do
21:20:27 <flo> well
21:20:32 <flo> it ends up on a website
21:20:40 <flo> not on a google crawlable page
21:21:07 <flo> so you are "safe", except if the person receiving the link sends it to someone else... which is the same problem as copying an IM
21:21:34 <flo> well, except if you don't trust the owner of the pastebin server (but it's the same issue with the owner of your IM network)
21:24:34 * Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005
21:28:17 <Mic> To me it appears that you're sort of counting on that the user is either sure that his content is reasonable safe or that he just doesn't care
21:28:55 <Mic> With the measures mentioned above, I think it is reasonable safe
21:29:42 <Mic> you've just got to convince people that something that is accessible by a link like any page on the web is safe
21:31:02 <flo> do you think people who post photos on facebook is scared by the safety of a link?
21:31:17 <Mic> -just (Note to myself: stop over-using 'just';) 
21:33:30 <flo> do you think people care all that much about privacy by the way?
21:33:34 <flo> *we* do care a lot
21:33:58 <flo> (that's why we are having this discussion)
21:34:02 <flo> but the average user...
21:38:47 <flo> anyway, it's late. Good night! :)
21:39:28 <Mic> same for me
21:39:29 <Mic> good night
21:40:19 <Mic> "[x] conduct this conversation via Twitter"
21:40:21 <Mic> ;)
21:40:23 <Mic> nn
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